Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

28firefighter

Better to know that now than after you bought it...

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Better to know that now than after you bought it...

Really.. .tell me about it..

qbrozen

It went something like this...

her: "I sit lower in it than mine, and I couldn't get the steering wheel where I wanted it, and it seems like there is less space behind the third row. I wasn't wowed by it, but I guess if you can get a really good deal..."

me: "NOPE. Done. I'm not going there again. You are complaining now and will only complain more after just a few months, so you are keeping your van."

corvette

Darn. Thanks for the useful info about Carvana's trade in values. Just checked the purchase order on the Mustang. I bought it for $19,489 + $299 doc fee + $50 license and sales tax in early August 2017 (we only pay tax on the difference in KY, and I traded the Murano). $188 depreciation in a year ain't bad!

My other costs look like they were $632.12 maintenance and repair (coolant change, oil change, touch up paint, and replacing the driver's seat belt); $1,035 for new tires, roughly $1,000 to insure it for a year, and maybe $200 in interest. I also added a remote start kit for $106. I know I replaced the engine air filter and the cabin air filter, but the cost of those was negligible, as were the replacement speakers. $3,000 running costs for a year, including depreciation and full insurance, on a late model weekend vehicle, isn't bad at all. That does make it over $1 a mile, though, due to the infrequent use. I think I would have done a lot worse with a Corvette or 370z, both of which were also in the running.

andres3

qbrozen said:

Gotta be honest: I don't see the point to the V60 and Golf R and an SUV all coexisting in the household. Much redundancy.

Yeah, but that's a lot better redundancy than say..... a Kia Rio, a Toyota Yaris, and a Chevy Spark.

tjc78

qbrozen said:

It went something like this...

her: "I sit lower in it than mine, and I couldn't get the steering wheel where I wanted it, and it seems like there is less space behind the third row. I wasn't wowed by it, but I guess if you can get a really good deal..."

me: "NOPE. Done. I'm not going there again. You are complaining now and will only complain more after just a few months, so you are keeping your van."

Exactly the reason I ended up with back to back virtually identical Enclaves.. wife wasn’t a fan of the new model. 

breld

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

Did you accept the Mustang offer?

In the process of accepting, right now. They ask for photos of your ID, both sides of the title (if you live in a state where the lienholder doesn't hold the physical title), odometer, 10-day payoff, and vehicle registration. Seems pretty straightforward so far!

...and done! They are supposed to contact me within 24 hours to schedule a pickup.

Very interesting. Keep us posted on the process.

breld

qbrozen said:

It went something like this...

her: "I sit lower in it than mine, and I couldn't get the steering wheel where I wanted it, and it seems like there is less space behind the third row. I wasn't wowed by it, but I guess if you can get a really good deal..."

me: "NOPE. Done. I'm not going there again. You are complaining now and will only complain more after just a few months, so you are keeping your van."

Hmm...bummer on not getting a new van, but kudos to your wife for recognizing what she likes and doesn't like, instead of getting caught up in a new car for the sake of a new car.

henryn

Now that I was not expecting. But I have run into such things before. If it is to be primarily her vehicle, then let her be happy.

Does the Pacifica actually sit lower? Not that it matters, her perception is what matters in your case. But just in general, it didn't seem to sit lower to me. Then again, the last time I sat in one was nearly 2 years ago, so ...

qbrozen

I haven't sat in one so i can't say for sure. BUT, the Pacifica is 3" taller than the T&C. Oh well. I have had too many instances of her settling and then I suffer for it. I'm not falling for it again...ever.

henryn

Before I purchased my (used) 2016 T&C, in January of 2017, I did shop around and check out the new Pacifica's. They seemed bigger to me, looked to be both wider and longer. A look at the stats did NOT bear that out, at least not to any significant extent, but it LOOKED that way.

corvette

I wonder if the higher roof and greater amount of space above her head make it feel like she's sitting lower.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

I haven't sat in one so i can't say for sure. BUT, the Pacifica is 3" taller than the T&C. Oh well. I have had too many instances of her settling and then I suffer for it. I'm not falling for it again...ever.

Well said!

tbirdmarco

Best to keep the wife happy  when it comes to her car

tbirdmarco

What car are you getting corvette after the mustang is gon 

stickguy

I learned the hard way not to buy a car for her without full input and approval.

graphicguy

You know, I was just thinking. As popular as minivans have been over the years, I can count on one hand those I’ve driven and/or rode in and still have fingers left over.

One was a Toyota Sienna and the other was a T&C. That’s it. Weird!

corvette

tbirdmarco said:

What car are you getting corvette after the mustang is gon 

I don’t have anything in mind and will probably just sit tight with one car for a while. But I’m always looking! 

tjc78

graphicguy said:

You know, I was just thinking. As popular as minivans have been over the years, I can count on one hand those I’ve driven and/or rode in and still have fingers left over. One was a Toyota Sienna and the other was a T&C. That’s it. Weird!

We used to have a miled up Town and Country at work.  Lots of seat time in that thing.  I’ll tell you what.. it took a serious beating.   I had it loaded to the gills and practically dragging the ground. Amazing that it had nearly 200k on the originally tranny.   No one was easy on that thing either.  I want to say it was late 90s vintage.  

They eventually sold it for like $500 to an employee 

stickguy

I owned 3 minivans of my own. And road in plenty more. Wonderful devices

fintail

My dad's last new car was a T&C, he was quite pleased with it. It replaced a Grand Caravan, which he also liked. I've ridden in quite a few, but come to think of it, never in a Toyota model.

suydam

graphicguy said:

You know, I was just thinking. As popular as minivans have been over the years, I can count on one hand those I’ve driven and/or rode in and still have fingers left over.

One was a Toyota Sienna and the other was a T&C. That’s it. Weird!

That’s because we drove them into the ground! I had 2 — a Plymouth Voyager and a Toyota Previa. We drove the Previa for 12 years until our kids were all in college. Then we were done with minivans. But nothing can beat them as people and cargo haulers.

pensfan83

My family had minivans growing up. The first couple were Plymouth Voyagers, the second of which gave my parents fits with its grenading transmission. The last minivan before they switched to an SUV for my mom was a Mercury Villager that replaced the Voyager with all of the transmission problems. We had that one for close to 10 years and 200K before it caught fire.

suydam

The less said about the Voyager the better.

Michaell

@tifighter - you still up for a meet tonight? @jpp5862 and I are available if so. I sent you a PM as well. Feel free to respond either way.

au1994

I had a Grand Caravan as a rental in Kansas a few years ago. Put several hundred miles on it and I have to say it was great to cruise the highways in. Good seating position, good visibility and pretty decent power I thought.

It had Stow ‘n Go and I couldn’t resist folding the seats into the floor just to get an idea of the space. It was pretty impressive.

They are an appliance but a darn useful one.

Michaell

Some years back, I had the wife's CX-7 in for service. The dealer put me into a Caravan as a loaner for the day. I seem to remember being pretty impressed with the space utilization, as well.

Wife adamantly refused to drive a minivan.

roadburner

Michaell said:

Some years back, I had the wife's CX-7 in for service. The dealer put me into a Caravan as a loaner for the day. I seem to remember being pretty impressed with the space utilization, as well.

Wife adamantly refused to drive a minivan.

Ditto for my wife- bless her heart!

tjc78

My wife too... but at the end of the day is there really all that much difference between a full size crossover (like our Enclave) and a minivan? Very similar vehicles, one is just marketed better

henryn

tjc78 said:

My wife too... but at the end of the day is there really all that much difference between a full size crossover (like our Enclave) and a minivan? Very similar vehicles, one is just marketed better

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. They are actually quite dissimilar. The space utilization in the minivan is a great deal better. You get a lot more interior space with smaller exterior dimensions. And the sliding side doors are a truly great convenience when you're trying to load up while wedged into a tight parking space. And name me one crossover that can carry 7 people, and with 5 minutes of changes, and no external storage for the seats, carry 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall.

It's a strange phenomenon (at least strange to me), that it's women who really have the antipathy towards minivans. But it does exist, it is real, can't deny that.

Mr_Shiftright

Speaking marketing + wives, I read somewhere that women prefer to sit up higher in a vehicle, for better visibility over other large vehicles (could this escalate into 3-story SUVs? ). There was also some marketing nonsense in the article about "empowerment" and other new-agey stuff, so I dunno how to make sense of it all. This was probably all the result of a "focus group"--a methodology which as you know famously resulted in the Edsel.

corvette

The mothers I know all detest minivans until they buy one, then they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread.  

Carvana wanted a payoff from my bank and not one I uploaded from my online access to my account. I think I sent them what they wanted. Fingers crossed! 

kyfdx

corvette said:

The mothers I know all detest minivans until they buy one, then they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread.  

Carvana wanted a payoff from my bank and not one I uploaded from my online access to my account. I think I sent them what they wanted. Fingers crossed! 

Seems weird that they wouldn't call for the payoff. Ever have a dealer just take your word for what you owe?

au1994

Mr_Shiftright said:

Speaking marketing + wives, I read somewhere that women prefer to sit up higher in a vehicle, for better visibility over other large vehicles (could this escalate into 3-story SUVs? ). There was also some marketing nonsense in the article about "empowerment" and other new-agey stuff, so I dunno how to make sense of it all. This was probably all the result of a "focus group"--a methodology which as you know famously resulted in the Edsel.

At least for my wife, its a little simpler than that. She’s, shall we say, vertically challenged at just a little over 5’ and the higher seating position in an SUV gives her more peace of mind. It’s also what she’s been used to for the past 10+ years between a 4Runner, MDX and now the X6. I kid her that with her 8 mile commute she is a perfect candidate for a Leaf. She does not get my humor on that one

qbrozen

henryn said:

tjc78 said:

My wife too... but at the end of the day is there really all that much difference between a full size crossover (like our Enclave) and a minivan? Very similar vehicles, one is just marketed better

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. They are actually quite dissimilar. The space utilization in the minivan is a great deal better. You get a lot more interior space with smaller exterior dimensions. And the sliding side doors are a truly great convenience when you're trying to load up while wedged into a tight parking space. And name me one crossover that can carry 7 people, and with 5 minutes of changes, and no external storage for the seats, carry 4x8 sheets of plywood or drywall.

It's a strange phenomenon (at least strange to me), that it's women who really have the antipathy towards minivans. But it does exist, it is real, can't deny that.

Not to mention, probably most important, IMHO, the space behind the 3rd row. You can actually carry 6 adults PLUS their 6 suitcases. The only SUVs with similar space are the monstrous beasts like the extended Yukon/Escalade and the Expedition.

corvette

kyfdx said:

The mothers I know all detest minivans until they buy one, then they’re the greatest thing since sliced bread.  

Carvana wanted a payoff from my bank and not one I uploaded from my online access to my account. I think I sent them what they wanted. Fingers crossed! 

Seems weird that they wouldn't call for the payoff. Ever have a dealer just take your word for what you owe?

When I sold my old house, the buyer’s bank asked me to get a payoff from the bank that provided my HELOC. Someone less scrupulous could have made something up or gotten a $0 owed payoff and then written a big check against the HELOC. My understanding is that, if audited, the buyer’s bank’s loan file would not pass on account of that, but that’s not the only ball they dropped, so I’m really not surprised. 

breld

We did roadtrips to Mt. Rushmore and Yellowstone in our Odyssey with our 4 kids (and luggage of course). We took the Sedona on a 2 day each way trip out to Anaheim. I wouldn't dream of taking our 4 kids on a roadtrip in any of the SUVs we've had.

As Q pointed out, short of something like a Suburban, no SUV will match the cargo carrying ability of a van, not to mention the ease of entry to the roomy 3rd row.

If we choose to do another roadtrip, we'll be renting a van.

iluvmysephia1

Seems weird that they wouldn't call for the payoff. Ever have a dealer just take your word for what you owe?

Every dealer I've ever dealt with has made the call theirselves to the bank that held the note on my trade-in car. It would seem ta me that they really are anxious to make a deal with you!

au1994

breld said:

We did roadtrips to Mt. Rushmore and Yellowstone in our Odyssey with our 4 kids (and luggage of course). We took the Sedona on a 2 day each way trip out to Anaheim. I wouldn't dream of taking our 4 kids on a roadtrip in any of the SUVs we've had.

As Q pointed out, short of something like a Suburban, no SUV will match the cargo carrying ability of a van, not to mention the ease of entry to the roomy 3rd row.

If we choose to do another roadtrip, we'll be renting a van.

I’m considering renting a van/large SUV in October. We have a wedding to attend and their will be 4 of us going. With suits and dresses that need to hang or lay flat and suitcases for nearly a week, the X6 will get tight on cargo room. That’s the only disadvantage of the ‘fastback’ styling is the loss of the ability to fully cube out the cargo area.

I hate to spend the money and the X6 is a great cruiser, but it probably makes the most sense.

kyfdx

Vans are so pricey to rent..

au1994

kyfdx said:

Vans are so pricey to rent..

Because they know they have you. Not to many would rent one for a fun getaway weekend with just you and the spouse..

tjc78

I agree with you all on all the points you made for the minivan, no doubt more versatile.  What I was trying to convey was the looks, driving position etc are more similar than different IMO... yet many despise minivans but love large crossovers. 

suydam

au1994 said:

breld said:

We did roadtrips to Mt. Rushmore and Yellowstone in our Odyssey with our 4 kids (and luggage of course). We took the Sedona on a 2 day each way trip out to Anaheim. I wouldn't dream of taking our 4 kids on a roadtrip in any of the SUVs we've had.

As Q pointed out, short of something like a Suburban, no SUV will match the cargo carrying ability of a van, not to mention the ease of entry to the roomy 3rd row.

If we choose to do another roadtrip, we'll be renting a van.

I’m considering renting a van/large SUV in October. We have a wedding to attend and their will be 4 of us going. With suits and dresses that need to hang or lay flat and suitcases for nearly a week, the X6 will get tight on cargo room. That’s the only disadvantage of the ‘fastback’ styling is the loss of the ability to fully cube out the cargo area.

I hate to spend the money and the X6 is a great cruiser, but it probably makes the most sense.

I thought about renting a minivan when my kids are here — until I discovered the price.

corvette

If I get something to replace the Mustang, I want something that would work well as a road trip car. Not just in terms of comfort, but I also think having something like Honda Sensing or Toyota Safety Sense would help reduce fatigue. Finding a 3-5 year old luxury car with those features is tough.  

tifighter

Michaell said:

@tifighter - you still up for a meet tonight? @jpp5862 and I are available if so. I sent you a PM as well. Feel free to respond either way.

Sent you an email...

benjaminh

corvette said:

If I get something to replace the Mustang, I want something that would work well as a road trip car. Not just in terms of comfort, but I also think having something like Honda Sensing or Toyota Safety Sense would help reduce fatigue. Finding a 3-5 year old luxury car with those features is tough.  

AcuraWatch is really nice. And the Acura lease incentives on the last the 2018 RDX and TLX models are very good.

xwesx

au1994 said:

I had a Grand Caravan as a rental in Kansas a few years ago. Put several hundred miles on it and I have to say it was great to cruise the highways in. Good seating position, good visibility and pretty decent power I thought.

It had Stow ‘n Go and I couldn’t resist folding the seats into the floor just to get an idea of the space. It was pretty impressive.

They are an appliance but a darn useful one.

Love me some minivan. If they weren't so expensive as a rental, I would tend to choose them preferentially (even though I only have a family of four).

qbrozen

When i looked at rentals in las vegas a couple of years ago, a minivan was at least cheaper than a full-size SUV. 

suydam

But at least twice as much as a full size car.

corvette

When I was in Albuquerque, I reserved a luxury vehicle, and they let me pick anything on the lot, including a Volvo convertible or Lincoln MKX. I ended up taking the Escalade and thought it was a ridiculous vehicle. Of course, I ended up owning and loving a Yukon Denali and a Tahoe afterwards, so, you never know!