Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

you can tell by the dashboard if it is a .5 model. Or if it has the 2.0 4 engine (if FWD).

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

I met up with @michaell this morning and drove this. I've been toying with the idea of a second "fun" car and these have been on my radar. I'm so buried in negative equity on the Touareg it's not going anywhere for a while but something like this is doable. https://www.royalintlauto.com/2008-Volvo-C30/Used-Hatchback/Denver-CO/11152544/Details.aspx Overall a great little car, I had never been in a C30 before so this was just a quick drive but I was really impressed with it. It appears to have been taken care of, the interior was in good shape, everything we tested worked just fine and the drive was great. Solid feeling, strong pulling engine, heavy but nimble steering. Definitely something to think about......

So what's the story on the C30? Good rep? Bad rep? I don't know much about this car. Just snooping around the classifieds, and manual transmission versions of this car seem quite scarce.

Good car. Its the old tried and true low-pressure 2.5T engine. ALTHOUGH, I can't speak to the auto. I believe they had them sorted by that year. The early '04-'06 geartronics were fragile. 

kyfdx

It's stick or nothing for me, with a C30

stickguy

speaking of being a one car familt (@michaell), after being that (effectively) for about a month while the daughter has been using my car, I have come to a conclusion. In theory, if financially needed, we could do it. I just don't want to. And that is with both the wife and I working FT from home.

today is an example. I have to run out and do some dog rescue business. So she thought would be a good time to run over to the store for some shopping I have no interest in. But, Ooops. daughter has my car until Tuesday night when she gets her new one, so when I take the RDX, she is stuck at home.

Definitely always going to have 2, minimum, at least until one of us can't drive any longer!

kyfdx

@michaell Just have your wife/daughter drive your car to work. Easy fix.
Need to sell them on it? Tell them their car will last much longer that way. It's like getting to use a car for free!

Mr_Shiftright

This might be a suitable car for me--it's not a GTI or Mini S, but not too far off the mark, and probably built better than either of them.

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

This might be a suitable car for me--it's not a GTI or Mini S, but not too far off the mark, and probably built better than either of them.

Considering what you've been driving and what you like, I agree..

mjfloyd1

I’m of the “never own a European car out of warranty” thought

kyfdx

mjfloyd1 said:

I’m of the “never own a European car out of warranty” thought

It's not that bad... you just have to love the car. I'm working on 6 years out of the CPO warranty, right now.

Michaell

kyfdx said:

I’m of the “never own a European car out of warranty” thought

It's not that bad... you just have to love the car. I'm working on 6 years out of the CPO warranty, right now.

Having had a ride in your car, I can see why you love it. 

henryn

There are horror stories out there that just flat scare me. I remember reading about a headlight replacement in a BMW costing around $1,100 (the front bumper had to come off, as I recall). I’m not sure how widespread that is, or exactly which models, but it is concerning.

I used to own Cadillacs, and participate in forums for same. The air suspension on those old model DeVilles was about $3k at the dealer when it went out. And I recall there were Lincoln models with the same complaint and cost.

Someone here in these forums, going back a couple of years, talked about his parents who owned a Porsche SUV (Cayman?). As I recall, the 50k service cost them $5k, leading them to move to something else.

As someone wisely pointed out, an expensive car requires expensive service. And if you buy a used one for cheap, the service does not get any cheaper. Unless, of course, you plan to do it all yourself. When I was younger, I owned 2 Peugeots. Both well used, and long out of warranty. That was a 1971 and a 1975, easy to work on actually. I don’t see myself pulling the front bumper off of a BMW in my driveway.

I guess the trick is to do your homework. Spend some time researching, reading everything you can find about the specific make and model you are considering. Don’t just fall in love with a car down at the used car lot and take it home with no idea what you’re getting into. Which is, conversely, exactly what I did with that 1971 Peugeot. I was kicking tires, ran across the thing, liked it, got a heck of a deal, and took it home. I knew it was made in France, and I remembered that they were known for winning Rally’s, but I knew almost nothing else.

stickguy

My take on it is that some models are much scarier. All V12s, many V8s. And the more expensive ones new tend to have more exotic systems and costly features.

A BMW 325 with RWD should be pretty safe, if taken care of properly along the way. That and a good indy mechanic, and no real worries. Now, an 850 (860?) is going to be a whole nother level of risk.

I don't have any particular concern about getting a FWD S60 Volvo. But I would not be getting a V8 XC90 at any price.

ab348

Back around 2010, a former coworker had a first-gen VW Touareg SUV. On one side the headlight went out and he took it to the dealer. They diagnosed it as a wiring problem that required removal of the front fender to fix, all told he spent almost $2K on it. He dumped it not long thereafter.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

My take on it is that some models are much scarier. All V12s, many V8s. And the more expensive ones new tend to have more exotic systems and costly features. A BMW 325 with RWD should be pretty safe, if taken care of properly along the way. That and a good indy mechanic, and no real worries. Now, an 850 (860?) is going to be a whole nother level of risk. I don't have any particular concern about getting a FWD S60 Volvo. But I would not be getting a V8 XC90 at any price.

I have not read anything bad about the v8.

stickguy

well, complex, rare and must be expensive engine. and jammed in there. So just assumed it will eat you alive if something goes wrong. Hardly ever see those though, so who knows.

jpp75

@MrShiftright I didn't know much about the C30 other than I had always liked the looks of them. I found the 2.5T to pull nicely and as @michaell noted no turbo lag at all. The auto transmission (5 speed) was unoffensive, and while no doubt a stick would be more fun they are rare.

I'd suggest finding one and giving it a test drive, that was my goal yesterday since I had never sat in one, much less driven it and I was satisfied/impressed overall. I feel like it's a solid GTI competitor that never really caught on in the market.

breld

It's an auto and it's obviously priced way high, but I love this one:

C30 at Carmax

stickguy

pretty. If that had a stick and lighter interior, would be great. At less money of course.

I actually drove past that dealer not too long ago when down looking at apartments for my daughter..

corvette

qbrozen said:

I have not read anything bad about the v8.

Girl I was dating earlier this year (and am now dating again, I think, but that's another story) had just bought a used XC90 T6. She traded it when she realized how much gas it was using on her commute, before anything blew up on it.

corvette

I love that orange C30. If it were half the price, I'd probably take a flyer on it.

kyfdx

corvette said:

I love that orange C30. If it were half the price, I'd probably take a flyer on it.

I say that about every Cayman...

(EDIT: with a stick-shift)

corvette

I clicked on those C30 ads on my phone, with no ad blocker... Now, I’m getting ads for used C30s. 

ab348

stickguy said:

pretty. If that had a stick and lighter interior, would be great. At less money of course.

Ummm, OK.

If I was 30 years younger, was in a lot better physical condition and had a full head of hair....

nyccarguy

@henryn - it’s all about how much homework & research you do.  @fintail will back me up on this.  Some MB R-Class Models & E-Class Models equipped with air suspensions regularly reported failures not too long after the warranty expired.  Have your out of warranty R or E equipped with air suspension flat bedded to the dealer and you were given an invoice of between $3,500 - $4,500 to “replace the bags.”  If you have an independent mechanic, he (or she) replaces the inflator and hands you a bill for $500.

There’s no “free ride.”  People who don’t understand cars think that an expensive, European car uses the same “parts” as a cheap, Korean car and the European car cost more because of the badge.  

When you buy a used car, you are getting it cheaper than new because of depreciation, but you will have to do more maintenance (or pay to have said maintenance performed) due to the car’s age and mileage compared to when it was new.  

My Mom drives a 2016 Porsche Cayenne V6.  It requires service every 10,000 miles.  My parents bought a prepaid maintenance package for $2,400 that covered maintenance for the 1st 50,000 miles.  You make your money back at the 40K service which requires new spark plugs.  Her car currently has about 65K miles on it.  The 60K service (the 1st that wasn’t covered under their prepaid plan) amounted to a little under $700 for basically an oil change and tire rotation.  Expensive?  Yes.  But a service advisor dropped a loaner off at the house in the AM, the car sucks down about 10 quarts of Mobil 1, and the car isn’t returned to her later that evening or the next day without her being inconvenienced 1 bit.  

You just have to know what you are getting into.

benjaminh

My goal since vehicles changed over to 100k tune-up intervals is to buy a reliable car new and trade it in before it ever needs a tune-up. We basically did that with our 2002 Accord and the 2008 Accord, keeping them both 8+ years and c.90k miles. In my experience a lot of stuff starts wearing out when most cars get past 10 years and 100k miles. The 100k tune-up is just the start....

stickguy

a reasonable plan. You certainly get your value out of buying a new car that way, and never really are driving an "old" one. And if you buy the right car, still has decent value at that point.

pay 30K, sell it for 5K, so $25k over 8+ years is about $3,000/year of $250/month.

Michaell

stickguy said:

a reasonable plan. You certainly get your value out of buying a new car that way, and never really are driving an "old" one. And if you buy the right car, still has decent value at that point.

pay 30K, sell it for 5K, so $25k over 8+ years is about $3,000/year of $250/month.

Heck, if I did that, I could keep the car 15 years instead of 8, given how much I drive.

My $25K in depreciation would work out to less than $150/mo

But, would have to factor in all the other running costs (gas, maintenance, insurance, registration)

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

a reasonable plan. You certainly get your value out of buying a new car that way, and never really are driving an "old" one. And if you buy the right car, still has decent value at that point.

pay 30K, sell it for 5K, so $25k over 8+ years is about $3,000/year of $250/month.

Heck, if I did that, I could keep the car 15 years instead of 8, given how much I drive.

My $25K in depreciation would work out to less than $150/mo

But, would have to factor in all the other running costs (gas, maintenance, insurance, registration)

Don't forget that around 15 years, things start having to be replaced due to time & age rather than mileage. Rubber cracks and wears.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

a reasonable plan. You certainly get your value out of buying a new car that way, and never really are driving an "old" one. And if you buy the right car, still has decent value at that point.

pay 30K, sell it for 5K, so $25k over 8+ years is about $3,000/year of $250/month.

Dependent of mileage. The person who drives 10K per year would have 80K on the odometer. I'd have over 150K at that point.

omarman

Edmunds Senior Analyst Ivan Drury said. "The 100,000-mile myth is really just a psychological barrier that more and more car buyers are getting past. Following the recession, many people were forced to hang on to their vehicles longer than they may have wanted to simply because they couldn't afford to get a new car. People then saw for themselves how much vehicle quality has improved and realized that a car with 125,000 or even 150,000 miles still has a lot of life left."

stickguy

150,000 is the new 100,000?

kyfdx

100K miles isn't a myth to a used car manager, though. Just try trading one in.

stickguy

Good point.

But, since it’s still “common knowledge” it makes buying say a 6 YO car with 105k on it, mostly highway, with impeccable records, a really good deal. For the right car of course.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Good point.

But, since it’s still “common knowledge” it makes buying say a 6 YO car with 105k on it, mostly highway, with impeccable records, a really good deal. For the right car of course.

Even knowing what I know about how well cars are built today as well as in recent times, I can't see myself going out and buying a 6 year old car with over 100K on it.

kyfdx

I bought a 24 yr old car with 190K miles, and a 20 year old car with 206K miles.

mjfloyd1

You should see the cars that the international students here drive - Mclaren, Lamborghini, Ferrari, and if you are less well to do, then you slum in a Maserati

mjfloyd1

Pretty hopeful pricing on my old 335 convertible

https://www.davedennis.com/used/BMW/2008-BMW-335i-Dayton-497109520a0e08bd60c5a9b5e5cda81b.htm?mycarsr=vdp-recentCars

mjfloyd1

Pretty h

qbrozen said:

On the highway this morn, I spot a bright blue Charger going the other way.

me: "ooo...that's like the one I was looking at. I have it tagged on my phone."
her: "you still have 10 mos on your lease."
me: "I know. Just being prepared."
her: "but you don't want to go back to a car. You said you like having a truck."
me: "yes, I do like the comfort but I miss zippy handling. Ideally, I want both. So I think I may decide to sell the Dodge and get what is essentially a newer version of that AND have a truck."

.....silence.....

Was it silence or awkward silence?

mjfloyd1

I’m of the “never own a European car out of warranty” thought

mjfloyd1

My old car is listed at 17995!

https://www.davedennis.com/used-inventory/index.htm

mjfloyd1

Ok. Never own a twin turbo European car out of warranty

fintail

That's right, and it is common sense. Know the problem spots on certain cars and budget for them, or avoid them entirely. It's not hard, internet car forums have been thriving for 20 years, and there is plenty of discussion and help to be had on make-specific venues. I am not afraid of any used MB I would actually buy, as I would have a hint as to what I am getting into.

Prepaid maintenance can also be a bargain on purchases and leases both (amortized into the lease, which makes it even cheaper).

nyccarguy said:

@henryn - it’s all about how much homework & research you do.  @fintail will back me up on this.  Some MB R-Class Models & E-Class Models equipped with air suspensions regularly reported failures not too long after the warranty expired

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

Michaell said:

stickguy said:

a reasonable plan. You certainly get your value out of buying a new car that way, and never really are driving an "old" one. And if you buy the right car, still has decent value at that point.

pay 30K, sell it for 5K, so $25k over 8+ years is about $3,000/year of $250/month.

Heck, if I did that, I could keep the car 15 years instead of 8, given how much I drive.

My $25K in depreciation would work out to less than $150/mo

But, would have to factor in all the other running costs (gas, maintenance, insurance, registration)

Don't forget that around 15 years, things start having to be replaced due to time & age rather than mileage. Rubber cracks and wears.

Yes, which is why I noted maintenance in my other running costs.

thebean

fintail said:

That's right, and it is common sense. Know the problem spots on certain cars and budget for them, or avoid them entirely. It's not hard, internet car forums have been thriving for 20 years, and there is plenty of discussion and help to be had on make-specific venues. I am not afraid of any used MB I would actually buy, as I would have a hint as to what I am getting into.

Prepaid maintenance can also be a bargain on purchases and leases both (amortized into the lease, which makes it even cheaper).

nyccarguy said:

@henryn - it’s all about how much homework & research you do.  @fintail will back me up on this.  Some MB R-Class Models & E-Class Models equipped with air suspensions regularly reported failures not too long after the warranty expired

@fintail, just curious - why is the prepaid maintenance even cheaper if it is amortized into the lease? Seems like it would only be cheaper if you paid for it up front to avoid any finance charges (either lease or purchase).

roadburner

I'm still living on the edge; the Club Sport has 146k on it, the Wrangler has 116k, and the Mini has 111k on it.
The X3 I sold to my friend with almost 200k on it is still running strong. It just hit 215k miles and my friend said all he's done is replace the brake pads and put gas in it

kyfdx

thebean said:

fintail said:

That's right, and it is common sense. Know the problem spots on certain cars and budget for them, or avoid them entirely. It's not hard, internet car forums have been thriving for 20 years, and there is plenty of discussion and help to be had on make-specific venues. I am not afraid of any used MB I would actually buy, as I would have a hint as to what I am getting into.

Prepaid maintenance can also be a bargain on purchases and leases both (amortized into the lease, which makes it even cheaper).

nyccarguy said:

@henryn - it’s all about how much homework & research you do.  @fintail will back me up on this.  Some MB R-Class Models & E-Class Models equipped with air suspensions regularly reported failures not too long after the warranty expired

@fintail, just curious - why is the prepaid maintenance even cheaper if it is amortized into the lease? Seems like it would only be cheaper if you paid for it up front to avoid any finance charges (either lease or purchase).

It's not the amortization. For Mercedes, they also add the amount to the MSRP, raising the residual.

fintail

That's what I meant. It is added to the price, then you pay that fraction for the maintenance. I thnik 2 years prepaid maintenance on my car added just over $10/month, which is definitely worth it as Service B isn't cheap.

kyfdx said:

It's not the amortization. For Mercedes, they also add the amount to the MSRP, raising the residual.

thebean

Hmmm, interesting. Thanks for clarifying.

pensfan83

roadburner said:

I'm still living on the edge; the Club Sport has 146k on it, the Wrangler has 116k, and the Mini has 111k on it. The X3 I sold to my friend with almost 200k on it is still running strong. It just hit 215k miles and my friend said all he's done is replace the brake pads and put gas in it

I've said it a few times but the cleanest Honda/Acura I've looked at so far was the '91 Prelude Si with 195K on the clock. By the looks of the body, interior, and engine bay it may well go for another 150-200K.

stickguy

Why didn’t you buy that when the price was lowered to within $300 or so of your target?