Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

benjaminh

One more thing about the CR-V's 1.5 turbo—the sound it makes when accelerating is rather raw. My TLX with the 2.4 and the 8-speed transmission purrrrrs and shifts in a refined way that sounds and feels sophisticated, expensive, and nice. The CR-V's turbo with the CVT sounds like an economy car.

stickguy

well, my Elantra has a nice raspy sound to it, so shouldn't be a problem! I never noticed it being an issue when I drove a Civic with that drivetrain, but do need to test drive of the CRV. And will pay attention to the sound.

suydam

benjaminh said:

One more thing about the CR-V's 1.5 turbo—the sound it makes when accelerating is rather raw. My TLX with the 2.4 and the 8-speed transmission purrrrrs and shifts in a refined way that sounds and feels sophisticated, expensive, and nice. The CR-V's turbo with the CVT sounds like an economy car.

It is very noisy, as is the Rogue, and that’s why my friend passed up both the CRV and Rogue after driving them. She liked the Equinox, and ultimately wound up with the Subaru Outback. Which of course is AWD standard.

stickguy

we looked at the Outback before we bought the RDX. I was pushing for that one, but the wife won (being her car and all!)

boomchek

graphicguy said:

@boomchek ...I get where you're coming from as a dealer. Go look at the pricing threads here at Edmunds. People will put themselves through all sorts of contortions for a deal....email a bunch of dealers (only to find the deal they thought they had falls through because of a myriad of other reasons), call a bunch of internet depts looking for a low ball quote (only to find out it wasn't valid once they get to the store), etc.

I've always felt....you can't make a deal unless you're sitting in the dealership's office.

I do most of my research before walking in the door. I make an appointment to visit the dealership. What drives me crazy is when the appointment is made and the sales person doesn't tell me they have that day off, or they're out to lunch, etc. I made the commitment to be there when I said I would. You would hope the sales person would do the same.

Price, taxes and tags are all figured into my offers.....all-in-one offer. That's what I expect to write the check for when in F&I. If the dealer agrees to my number? We have a deal, on the spot. If there's a variance in the numbers on the dealer's side, or there's any sort of bump they want to make, or there's some surprise fee, deal's off.

I'm fortunate. I've bought enough cars that most of what I buy, I've bought from the same salesperson and/or sales managers at my favorite dealerships over the years. I've bought 4 Acruas from the same dealership and salesperson over the years. I've bought 3 BMWs from the same dealership and same sales manager over the years. I've bought 3 Chevies from the same dealership. Although they seem to turn their sales staff over quite a bit, and I have to rely on the management of the dealership to make my deals.

I've bought 4 Hondas from the same dealership and the same sales person over the years.

They know what to expect from me. I know what to expect from them. That makes for a quick and easy deal. They spend very little time with me and they make a little money on a skinny deal. No muss. No fuss!

I'd be happy to have more clients like you. You know what you want and although it may be a skinny deal, it's a quick hassle free deal for both the customer and the dealership.

tbirdmarco

 It’s cause of the CVET that’s why. It would have a conventional transmission would be good sounding. 

ab348

suydam said:

benjaminh said:

One more thing about the CR-V's 1.5 turbo—the sound it makes when accelerating is rather raw. My TLX with the 2.4 and the 8-speed transmission purrrrrs and shifts in a refined way that sounds and feels sophisticated, expensive, and nice. The CR-V's turbo with the CVT sounds like an economy car.

It is very noisy, as is the Rogue, and that’s why my friend passed up both the CRV and Rogue after driving them. She liked the Equinox, and ultimately wound up with the Subaru Outback. Which of course is AWD standard.

It's odd how people are willing to forgive both lack of refinement and actual engine problems for some makes yet not for others.

carnaught

@Mr_Shiftright, another example of karma’s a “be-atch”.

stickguy

Refinement is in the eye of the beholder. It seems fine to the vast majority of buyers. Similar to how some people complain about overall noise level but most others don’t see a problem. I heard constantly that my accord and odyssey were “too noisy to even ride in!!!!” But I found them perfectly fine.

The oil issue, that’s a different story. Still unclear though how common the problem is.

cdnpinhead

I've heard for years about an oil "sludging" issue. Was the root cause ever determined and/or publicized?

henryn

From what I've read about the oil dilution problem on the CR-V with the 1.5 turbo engine, it's not very common, and it's not very serious. But then what else would you expect the manufacturer to say? If you get enough gasoline accumulating in the oil, and the oil gets thin enough, you WILL burn out bearings. But so far I have not heard of or read of a single incident such as that.

I wouldn't be afraid to buy one, I would just keep an eye on the oil level and change the oil if it became overfull.

jpp75

28firefighter said:

My Dad flipped his 2014 Touareg TDI shortly after getting the TDI fix done because of how badly it was stuttering while driving. Said it took an otherwise amazing engine and transmission combo and ruined it.

His "penalty box" is a 2014 Cayenne Turbo S he bought with 66k miles on it.

Fortunately I didn't drive one before the fix so I guess in a sense I don't know what I'm missing. I will say I haven't had a true stuttering issue, only a pronounced yet inconsistent turbo lag and a huge thirst for AdBlue. The turbo lag is what's maddening to me, you press the accelerator and never know what you're going to get. It ranges anywhere from a normal takeoff to a "1-one thousand, 2-thousand, SURGE" to a half second delay and then normal acceleration. I've tried driving with the transmission in S but that somehow seems to make it worse as the turbo lag is still inconsistent and the surge of power is much stronger.

@xwesx If I have to end up keeping it I'd look into doing this, but I can't seem to find any fix for the turbo lag. If you go that route I'll be curious to see how it helps.

I'm looking into a couple of lease options, as you all know there aren't any sweetheart lease deals really out there right now, but there are a couple of options (primarily a Tacoma) that have me interested.

jpp75

@Mr_Shiftright That's hilarious the influx of cars that are suddenly available, but I agree with your comment, you got the right car for you.

henryn

jpp5862 said:

28firefighter said:

My Dad flipped his 2014 Touareg TDI shortly after getting the TDI fix done because of how badly it was stuttering while driving. Said it took an otherwise amazing engine and transmission combo and ruined it.

His "penalty box" is a 2014 Cayenne Turbo S he bought with 66k miles on it.

Fortunately I didn't drive one before the fix so I guess in a sense I don't know what I'm missing. I will say I haven't had a true stuttering issue, only a pronounced yet inconsistent turbo lag and a huge thirst for AdBlue. The turbo lag is what's maddening to me, you press the accelerator and never know what you're going to get. It ranges anywhere from a normal takeoff to a "1-one thousand, 2-thousand, SURGE" to a half second delay and then normal acceleration. I've tried driving with the transmission in S but that somehow seems to make it worse as the turbo lag is still inconsistent and the surge of power is much stronger.

@xwesx If I have to end up keeping it I'd look into doing this, but I can't seem to find any fix for the turbo lag. If you go that route I'll be curious to see how it helps.

I'm looking into a couple of lease options, as you all know there aren't any sweetheart lease deals really out there right now, but there are a couple of options (primarily a Tacoma) that have me interested.

If I were in this predicament, I would look for someone local who sold "tunes". (Reprogram the computer.) Someone who offered a money back short term satisfaction guarantee.

jpp75

henryn said:

If I were in this predicament, I would look for someone local who sold "tunes". (Reprogram the computer.) Someone who offered a money back short term satisfaction guarantee.

That's certainly an option and something @michaell brought up, the issue is potentially voiding the warranty which is something I definitely don't want to mess with on this vehicle.

cdnpinhead

henryn said:

From what I've read about the oil dilution problem on the CR-V with the 1.5 turbo engine, it's not very common, and it's not very serious.

Thanks. Sounds like this is an entirely separate issue from the sludging thing I heard so much about.

Mr_Shiftright

jpp5862 said:

@Mr_Shiftright That's hilarious the influx of cars that are suddenly available, but I agree with your comment, you got the right car for you.

Apparently, there are a lot of buyers out there in the under $20K range whose appetite is bigger than their bank balance.

I would expect cars like C30s and RX-8s to attract weirdos but not deadbeats.

stickguy

The only real sludge problem I ever heard about was Toyota.

I was referring to the oil dilution problem currently happening.

nyccarguy

I really like the new Honda Passport (I know it is just a Pilot w/ 2 rows) and the Jeep Gladiator (I predict it will dethrone the Tacoma as the resale king).

breld

I gotta say, I like the look of this new Hyundai Palisade.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/palisade/index.aspx

stickguy

Interesting. Looks like should be a genesis, so I assume they get a version.

28firefighter

The Palisade is gorgeous. I'm hoping to avoid the need for an SUV quite that big, but man - that really hits the mark.

jpp75

I saw a picture of the Palisade last night and had the same thoughts as everyone here. I see a bit of the Lexus GX in it.

breld

nyccarguy said:

I really like the new Honda Passport (I know it is just a Pilot w/ 2 rows) and the Jeep Gladiator (I predict it will dethrone the Tacoma as the resale king).

The Passport is definitely a smart idea from Honda and I suspect they will sell like hotcakes. I'll be curious to see how it looks in person - from the pictures, I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't differentiate it more from the Pilot.

I do like they reintroduced that name. I remember taking a look at a really nice Passport EX back in the day - dark green with that beige lower trim.

ab348

breld said:

I gotta say, I like the look of this new Hyundai Palisade. https://www.hyundaiusa.com/palisade/index.aspx

Looks like a hearse. Where are the landau bars though? 😮

nyccarguy

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

I really like the new Honda Passport (I know it is just a Pilot w/ 2 rows) and the Jeep Gladiator (I predict it will dethrone the Tacoma as the resale king).

The Passport is definitely a smart idea from Honda and I suspect they will sell like hotcakes. I'll be curious to see how it looks in person - from the pictures, I'm a bit disappointed that they didn't differentiate it more from the Pilot.

I do like they reintroduced that name. I remember taking a look at a really nice Passport EX back in the day - dark green with that beige lower trim.

For sure a very smart idea. Not everybody has the need or want for an SUV with 3 rows of seating. They sell Grand Cherokees in droves.

stickguy

Something this size, like an edge, is just right for a lot of us. Not tight, but not a barge either.

tjc78

28firefighter said:

The Palisade is gorgeous. I'm hoping to avoid the need for an SUV quite that big, but man - that really hits the mark.

That SUV will absolutely be on the list when the Enclave goes back! I really like it.

What do you all think about pricing? 42K to start 55K all loaded?

stickguy

Minimum. A 2018 Santa Fe ultimate was about 44 I think.

Michaell

jpp5862 said:

I saw a picture of the Palisade last night and had the same thoughts as everyone here. I see a bit of the Lexus GX in it.

Yeah, but with much better space utilization and ergonomics. I know you weren't a fan of the GX you drove at the golf tournament earlier this year.

28firefighter

Yes, @tjc78 - that is about what I would expect for it.

tjc78

So Enclave, QX, MDX territory. Seems about right.

pensfan83

stickguy said:

Something this size, like an edge, is just right for a lot of us. Not tight, but not a barge either.

Since my parents are Ford loyalists I've mentioned the Edge a few times as a change of pace from their endless cycle of Mariners and Escapes. I think it's a better all around package but for reasons all her own my mom likes her Escapes. If my parents keep their usual replacement cycle they'll be in the market sometime next summer and shopping a vehicle that hasn't seen a major redesign in 6 years.

xwesx

jpp5862 said:

Fortunately I didn't drive one before the fix so I guess in a sense I don't know what I'm missing. I will say I haven't had a true stuttering issue, only a pronounced yet inconsistent turbo lag and a huge thirst for AdBlue. The turbo lag is what's maddening to me, you press the accelerator and never know what you're going to get. It ranges anywhere from a normal takeoff to a "1-one thousand, 2-thousand, SURGE" to a half second delay and then normal acceleration. I've tried driving with the transmission in S but that somehow seems to make it worse as the turbo lag is still inconsistent and the surge of power is much stronger.

@xwesx If I have to end up keeping it I'd look into doing this, but I can't seem to find any fix for the turbo lag. If you go that route I'll be curious to see how it helps.

I'm looking into a couple of lease options, as you all know there aren't any sweetheart lease deals really out there right now, but there are a couple of options (primarily a Tacoma) that have me interested.

Ah, yes! Surging! I have heard many people mention that one as well. I guess I don't notice that issue quite as much as others, or at least it doesn't bother me the same way. Having driven a lot of manuals in my day, I tend toward the smooth takeoff as opposed to "launching" my starts. As such, translating that to an automatic, I tend to tip-in smoothly on the accelerator rather than any sort of "punching it" action.

Tipping in, the car is consistently smooth if not leisurely about it. Punching it, yes, there is clear lag and surge. I'm told that remapping the transmission fixes nearly all of this. So, I'm eager to find out! My main concern is the stuttering, which is highly inconsistent but really annoying when it happens. If the surging problem resolves as well, then so much the better for those times when I just have to get on it.

Also, 'S' mode tends to make the stuttering more subtle (not fully resolved though), but I haven't found it to have any noticeable change on the surging. However, the car does move out much less leisurely when tipping in; NOTHING like the beast mode of old.

au1994

RE: Gladiator. Love it and could see myself justifying one in true CCBA fashion in a couple of years. There is a lot of pent up demand on the Jeep dedicated forums so these will likely sell at sticker or more. Assuming the talk translates to sales of course.

RE: Passport. This one would probably make more sense for me of course. I too had a crush on the original Passport, except mine was gray, loaded our 4x4 with the nice meaty wheels they put on the top trim level then. It was just after graduation and my first good job and I couldn’t quite swing it. SUV’s were becoming all the rage and pricing was showing it, this was the mid 90’s. I settled for a Tacoma so not too bad.

RE: Palisade. I’m stunned at how good looking it is. Hyundai is a serious competitor in all aspects of the market now. Just got to get past that stigma for some and the associated resale hit.

nyccarguy

Look what popped up in my Honcker deal of the day:

nyccarguy

Forget it. I found a black one with a higher MSRP that's $1 less per month!

corvette

I’d tread carefully. Everything I’ve read says the Q50 is disappointing to drive compared to the G37/Q40. 

stickguy

I like that one.

henryn

stickguy said:

The only real sludge problem I ever heard about was Toyota.

I was referring to the oil dilution problem currently happening.

I think the most common, most prevalent, most widely known "sludge" problem was in the Volkswagens with the 1.8T engine, up to 2007. I have seen pictures of some ungodly sludged up VW 1.8T engines. VW had gone over to recommending 10k oil changes, and it did NOT work out well.

Mr_Shiftright

au1994 said:

RE: Gladiator. Love it and could see myself justifying one in true CCBA fashion in a couple of years. There is a lot of pent up demand on the Jeep dedicated forums so these will likely sell at sticker or more. Assuming the talk translates to sales of course.

RE: Passport. This one would probably make more sense for me of course. I too had a crush on the original Passport, except mine was gray, loaded our 4x4 with the nice meaty wheels they put on the top trim level then. It was just after graduation and my first good job and I couldn’t quite swing it. SUV’s were becoming all the rage and pricing was showing it, this was the mid 90’s. I settled for a Tacoma so not too bad.

RE: Palisade. I’m stunned at how good looking it is. Hyundai is a serious competitor in all aspects of the market now. Just got to get past that stigma for some and the associated resale hit.

The Gladiator has a pretty good tow capacity, too. About 7,600 lbs.

stickguy

I am curious about that one too. Looks interesting.

tifighter

I’m kinda digging the Rivian R1. Who knows if it will make it to production, but the concept is way more practical then most.

qbrozen

So I guess we have a preliminary deal at this point. We put a deposit on this one:
https://www.volvoofhasbrouckheights.com/commercial-new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-hasbrouck-heights-nj-a74201760a0e0adf066f1de5810e245c.htm

Thing is, they can't release it from service yet. It is required to either hit a certain date, which is 12/22 in this case, or 5500 miles. She thinks they will hit the miles first. Either way, it will be pushed to December, at which point we don't know what the lease offer will be. If it is worse, well then we are back to square one.

Anyhoo, for those who asked, here is the FWD one:
https://www.volvoofhasbrouckheights.com/commercial-new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-hasbrouck-heights-nj-f90a7b300a0e0ae71a199e39dd2d8999.htm

We had that down to $30,830 before incentives. Edmunds says $8k in NJ, but she was insisting it is $7600. MF is .00111 and residual is 44% for 36/15, 46% for 12k, and 47% for 10k. Just message me if you want her contact info.

xwesx

Hah; their photos are terrible! I think both listings use the same photos, and the non-stock photos do it no justice.

qbrozen

ha, you are right. same photos.

stickguy

identical car other than AWD it seems.

I just couldn't do black over black. Especially on a lower option car. Can't tell if it has power passenger seat (a wife hot button), and looks like no back up camera? That is a deal breaker given how bad the rear visibility is on these.

But, a good sounding deal.

Might have to take the numbers over to my local place, and see what happens!

28firefighter

I'll hold my congrats until December. Sounds like a decent dealership. I'll keep them in mind as I think my parents may look to make a change with my Mom's car.

breld

tjc78 said:

28firefighter said:

The Palisade is gorgeous. I'm hoping to avoid the need for an SUV quite that big, but man - that really hits the mark.

That SUV will absolutely be on the list when the Enclave goes back! I really like it.

What do you all think about pricing? 42K to start 55K all loaded?

Oh I think it'll be lower than that. I'd say starting in the mid-$30's and up to about $49k fully loaded.

Think Pilot minus $2-3000.

corvette

Nice. Just put you down for a tentative punch.