Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

tbirdmarco

 It’s pretty cool all these cars, but pictures don’t do me any good have a see them in person when they come out at the dealerships, super up close at the New York auto show, so we shall see. Wow cool to have to wait until December congratulate you on the punch, here’s to hoping it all works out for you and the wife. 

stickguy

I was thinking before that I probably overshot. Breld is likely right, but I did not look too close at the specs. Expect the Genesis version (there has to be one) to start in the mid 40s and maybe run up past mid-50s.

xwesx

stickguy said:

I was thinking before that I probably overshot. Breld is likely right, but I did not look too close at the specs. Expect the Genesis version (there has to be one) to start in the mid 40s and maybe run up past mid-50s.

Don't sell yourself short. I mean, what does @breld know about car pricing, anyway?!

benjaminh

qbrozen said:

.....
Anyhoo, for those who asked, here is the FWD one:
https://www.volvoofhasbrouckheights.com/commercial-new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-hasbrouck-heights-nj-f90a7b300a0e0ae71a199e39dd2d8999.htm

We had that down to $30,830 before incentives. Edmunds says $8k in NJ, but she was insisting it is $7600. MF is .00111 and residual is 44% for 36/15, 46% for 12k, and 47% for 10k. Just message me if you want her contact info.

So that's before incentives? Sounds like a great deal.

qbrozen

benjaminh said:

..... Anyhoo, for those who asked, here is the FWD one: https://www.volvoofhasbrouckheights.com/commercial-new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-hasbrouck-heights-nj-f90a7b300a0e0ae71a199e39dd2d8999.htm We had that down to $30,830 before incentives. Edmunds says $8k in NJ, but she was insisting it is $7600. MF is .00111 and residual is 44% for 36/15, 46% for 12k, and 47% for 10k. Just message me if you want her contact info.

So that's before incentives? Sounds like a great deal.

Yes, so gross cap cost is $22,830 or $23,230, depending on which incentive info is correct. She didn't argue with me about the $8k off the AWD model, so maybe she found out I was correct.

benjaminh

qbrozen said:

benjaminh said:

qbrozen said:

.....
Anyhoo, for those who asked, here is the FWD one:
https://www.volvoofhasbrouckheights.com/commercial-new/Volvo/2018-Volvo-S60-hasbrouck-heights-nj-f90a7b300a0e0ae71a199e39dd2d8999.htm

We had that down to $30,830 before incentives. Edmunds says $8k in NJ, but she was insisting it is $7600. MF is .00111 and residual is 44% for 36/15, 46% for 12k, and 47% for 10k. Just message me if you want her contact info.

So that's before incentives? Sounds like a great deal.

Yes, so gross cap cost is $22,830 or $23,230, depending on which incentive info is correct. She didn't argue with me about the $8k off the AWD model, so maybe she found out I was correct.

$23.3k for a new Volvo? Amazing. If I didn't already have a new car I might take it.

sda

henryn said:

stickguy said:

The only real sludge problem I ever heard about was Toyota.

I was referring to the oil dilution problem currently happening.

I think the most common, most prevalent, most widely known "sludge" problem was in the Volkswagens with the 1.8T engine, up to 2007. I have seen pictures of some ungodly sludged up VW 1.8T engines. VW had gone over to recommending 10k oil changes, and it did NOT work out well.

I remember when we had our 99 Passat 1.8t that we bought new I thought the service intervals were too long, and the oil required was conventional not synthetic. I changed the oil at half intervals. VW sent a letter instructing more frequent oil changes and yet a separate letter instructing that the timing belt be changed more frequently.

boomchek

Palisade does look beautiful. Like a toned and better proportioned Escalade. They should do well with it.

The Passport should sell well too. Honda is marketing it to mid 30 year olds with no kids, but I suspect it'll sell well to families who think the CRV is too wimpy and Pilot is too big for their needs.

Same thing happened when the Honda Element came out. It was aimed and marketed towards unemployed 20 year old beach bums who liked to surf, but we sold them mostly to active seniors with dogs lol.

tbirdmarco

Lol lol lol on the above happy Friday. All

nyccarguy

boomchek said:

Palisade does look beautiful. Like a toned and better proportioned Escalade. They should do well with it.

The Passport should sell well too. Honda is marketing it to mid 30 year olds with no kids, but I suspect it'll sell well to families who think the CRV is too wimpy and Pilot is too big for their needs.

Same thing happened when the Honda Element came out. It was aimed and marketed towards unemployed 20 year old beach bums who liked to surf, but we sold them mostly to active seniors with dogs lol.

I was going to comment about the Palisade. It looks like my Dad's Yukon from the back. I'm not a fan of the Hyundai front.

tjc78

If the Palisade comes in under 50 loaded and leases decently it will be an instant hit. My Enclave was 49 and change in FWD form not fully loaded.

ab348

nyccarguy said:

I was going to comment about the Palisade. It looks like my Dad's Yukon from the back. I'm not a fan of the Hyundai front.

Same. But we should be grateful for small favors as at least they haven't copied the angry Toyota/Lexus front end language. Yet.

I also don't get the multiple wheel arch creases or whatever gives it that effect.

stickguy

Palisade reminds me of a Nissan Armada actually

qbrozen

So I revisited carvana for the Rover. The offer was quite a bit higher, now that I know the carfax and authocheck are clean. I'll be selling it to them ... hopefully. They insist on a particular document from the bank, and the bank refuses to email it. We have to wait for it to arrive by snail mail. The carvana offer expires in 7 days.

pensfan83

Is the note with a bank local to you? If so a visit to a branch office may yield more immediate results as the loan documents you need are likely imaged and archived electronically.

Mr_Shiftright

Drove my friend's 2008 Boxster for a few days. Excellent power and handling but my opinion hasn't really changed---the cockpit is too cramped, seats are uncomfortable (they tend to collapse over time) and the ergonomics are simply dreadful--they are not the least bit intuitive. The newer ones are, of course, a lot better in that regard.

Some examples:

There is power backrest function but manual lever for front to rear. WTH?

To tune the radio, you have to move up to the CD player, and press a button called "man".

The center glovebox has a latch behind your elbow, and the latch is on the passenger side. So you have to open it with your left hand reaching across your body.

The headlight switch has a position marked "home" but that doesn't turn off the headlights.

It's impossible to see the controls on the cruise control stalk.

Many dash buttons in the center stack are so tiny you hit two at once with your finger.

qbrozen

pensfan83 said:

Is the note with a bank local to you? If so a visit to a branch office may yield more immediate results as the loan documents you need are likely imaged and archived electronically.

nope. none in my state.

28firefighter

Hey, @xwesx - I know you're pretty far north of Anchorage, but looks like that quake had a pretty decent radius. You OK?

stickguy

So, tried to buy the S60 today I was considering. Sat there for the last month. Sold this morning. Of course. Supply is real thin, mostly a few strippo models left. But, had one loaded loaner just taken out of service today. They had to pull it back out of detail so I could drive it.


A FWD Inscription (long wheelbase model, very roomy back seat). Platinum, so loaded, including the killer Harmon Kardon stereo. Downside, black over black, but it was not too bad. Wood interior trim helped. Drove real nice. Lots of safety nannies if you are into that. And seats to die for!

I did get a first pencil. MSRP $44,415, sale price (I did not pick apart details but I assume including what lease incentives they wanted to put in) of ~$32,800. 36/10, MF .00022 and 48% residual. A line item of something like mileage charge, $1,220.

Bottom line, all in, $1,200 or so DAS and payments of $421. It’s a start. But not what I’m willing to pay. Knock another $100/month off and cut the DAS in half, and we be talking!

I’m terrible at negotiating lease by component. I just need to set a payment, offer it, and get a deal or not.

I will say, on an S60, platinum is the way to go!

stickguy

While waiting, I honckered. Nice 2019 Q50 luxe, with goodies (safety and convenience stuff), 39/10, MSRP ~$45,000, for $394/mo $400 DAS. That was interesting.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

....Bottom line, all in, $1,200 or so DAS and payments of $421. It’s a start. But not what I’m willing to pay. Knock another $100/month off and cut the DAS in half, and we be talking!....

But how likely are you to find a luxury car or luxury suv for $321 a month with very little due at signing?

qbrozen

For 36/10, that black/black FWD dynamic up north would be about $285.
I just posted it on leasehackr (with the salesperson's permission), so it will probably be gone tonight.

Got the buyer's order on the AWD. Not sure what she did with the numbers behind the scene, but it came out better than I thought it would based on what she told me the sale price would be. Backing it into my spreadsheet, it has to be 18.8% discount before $8k incentives. So for $40,330 MSRP, we're at $334/mo with first month at DMV due at signing (about $715). I had $335 in my head as an imaginary limit, hence paying the DMV up front. So somewhere around 0.85% MSRP effectively? Not quite as good as the 0.75% on my Alfa, but I think I did about as well as could be expected without traveling a great distance.

Out of the 8 dealers I contacted about X2s, lowest I got was $437/mo. Not worth $100 more for $2k more MSRP, that's for sure.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

So I revisited carvana for the Rover. The offer was quite a bit higher, now that I know the carfax and authocheck are clean. I'll be selling it to them ... hopefully. They insist on a particular document from the bank, and the bank refuses to email it. We have to wait for it to arrive by snail mail. The carvana offer expires in 7 days.

Oh, the conundrums we face in this modern world!

stickguy

Q, probably close then. The prestige has lots more stuff and stickers $4k+ higher. If they knocked $1,000 off the DAS would not be terrible, but if I’m willing to pay $400/mo, I got a lot more interesting options!

I did update carvana. 2 months later, offer is just as goo, possibly higher. They really seem to want my car! I’m cruising there listings to see if anything I want to trade it for.

jpp75

corvette said:

I’d tread carefully. Everything I’ve read says the Q50 is disappointing to drive compared to the G37/Q40. 

That was my experience, but I got the Q50 hybrid right after they came out. The G37x I had leased was way more fun to drive and by far the better car.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

Q, probably close then. The prestige has lots more stuff and stickers $4k+ higher. If they knocked $1,000 off the DAS would not be terrible, but if I’m willing to pay $400/mo, I got a lot more interesting options!

I did update carvana. 2 months later, offer is just as goo, possibly higher. They really seem to want my car! I’m cruising there listings to see if anything I want to trade it for.

Will they give you the same amount for your Elantra Sport whether or not you get a car from them? And did you ever test drive the TLX 2.4? If so, what did you think of the 4-wheel steering?

jpp75

Add a punch to the list. I unloaded the TDI Touareg this morning for a 2019 Tacoma Off Road in Cement w/ the Premium Package.

It's a truck and much different from the Touareg but overall a much better experience. It feels familiar and solid.

I have a 39 month lease which will help erase some of the negative equity in the Touareg and will free up some cash flow for another C30 in the spring.

28firefighter

Wow! That was fast! Congrats, @jpp5862. I really love the Tacoma - you'll be able to drive it forever, if you so choose. Who am I kidding - forever is a moving target in this place :-)

jpp75

28firefighter said:

Wow! That was fast! Congrats, @jpp5862. I really love the Tacoma - you'll be able to drive it forever, if you so choose.

Thanks @28firefighter. Given this is CCBA I doubt I'll drive it forever but I've always wanted a Tacoma and am glad this one worked out.

28firefighter

Out of curiosity, how bad was the negative equity hit?

tifighter

@jpp5862 can’t say I saw that one coming. Enjoy!

pensfan83

Congrats! I really like the Tacoma. Manual or automatic? I know they manuals actually lease better than the autos, at least through US Bank.

henryn

Ouch on the negative equity. I did some foolish things in my time, and I was upside down a few times on a car note, but I never rolled negative equity.

The worst case, back in about 1976 I bought a 1973 Civic for a girl who was living with me at the time. Financed it at the credit union. What I didn't know, she had a bad driving record, and the insurance company canceled the coverage. Two days later, before I could get another policy in place, she was in an accident and totaled the Civic. I just buckled down and made the payments.

A few months later, the credit union called and complained they were showing no insurance coverage on the Civic. I replied, "That's because the Civic no longer exists. No car, no insurance. Just let it lie, and you will get your money, every month, on time." Which they did, and I did.

Sometimes life bites.

jpp75

28firefighter said:

Out of curiosity, how bad was the negative equity hit?

It was 5 figures. I rolled most of it into the lease though which helps soften the blow.

I knew that buying a new car meant a huge depreciation hit, but I thought the diesel fans would keep values reasonable. Big miss on my part.

jpp75

pensfan83 said:

Congrats! I really like the Tacoma. Manual or automatic? I know they manuals actually lease better than the autos, at least through US Bank.

It's an automatic, I wouldn't mind a manual but those are thin on the ground and this allows me to resume my C30 search in the spring.

qbrozen

5 figures? Daaaammn!

28firefighter

Big ouch. Live and learn though and in 36 months it'll be washed away. You must have gotten a great deal on the Tacoma to begin with if you were able to roll in what basically amounts to $300/month in negative equity on a 36 month lease.

kyfdx

jpp5862 said:

Add a punch to the list. I unloaded the TDI Touareg this morning for a 2019 Tacoma Off Road in Cement w/ the Premium Package.

It's a truck and much different from the Touareg but overall a much better experience. It feels familiar and solid.

I have a 39 month lease which will help erase some of the negative equity in the Touareg and will free up some cash flow for another C30 in the spring.

Great color! We have the Sport model. Those are amazingly well-equipped.

xwesx

jpp5862 said:

28firefighter said:

Out of curiosity, how bad was the negative equity hit?

It was 5 figures. I rolled most of it into the lease though which helps soften the blow.

I knew that buying a new car meant a huge depreciation hit, but I thought the diesel fans would keep values reasonable. Big miss on my part.

Yes, agreed. It did not take long for word to spread on the performance issues of the 3.0L "fix" process, and boy did values ever tank! I still see a lot of 2015 models "new" for sale out there. I'm not sure dealers will ever be able to sell them for the prices they're advertising.

breld

henryn said:

Ouch on the negative equity. I did some foolish things in my time, and I was upside down a few times on a car note, but I never rolled negative equity.

Well, let’s not be too harsh about the “foolishness” of choices made.  The question was asked and @jpp5862 was gracious enough to own up to it.  

The distinction between being upside down on a car loan and rolling negative equity into a new loan is negligible, not that you want to make a habit out of the latter (or the former for that matter).  

I’d say parking the sunk cost of the Touareg negative equity in a Tacoma is not a particularly bad decision.  The depreciation to date on the VW won’t be recovered, and I’d imagine the depreciation on the Tacoma over the next 3 years won’t be any more (likely less) than that on the Touareg over the same period.  

Congrats @jpp5862 - take it from me...That negative equity is much less bitter tasting when you’re driving a car you enjoy!  😀

xwesx

jpp5862 said:

Add a punch to the list. I unloaded the TDI Touareg this morning for a 2019 Tacoma Off Road in Cement w/ the Premium Package.

It's a truck and much different from the Touareg but overall a much better experience. It feels familiar and solid.

I have a 39 month lease which will help erase some of the negative equity in the Touareg and will free up some cash flow for another C30 in the spring.

Congrats!

I think it was probably a good move overall, especially going for the lease. You were not happy with the Touareg's performance, Tacomas lease ridiculously well, and you had the negative equity either way you went. This way, you know it is gone at the end of the lease... remorse-free!

xwesx

breld said:

Well, let’s not be too harsh about the “foolishness” of choices made.  The question was asked and @jpp5862 was gracious enough to own up to it.  

The distinction between being upside down on a car loan and rolling negative equity into a new loan is negligible, not that you want to make a habit out of the latter (or the former for that matter).  

I’d say parking the sunk cost of the Touareg negative equity in a Tacoma is not a particularly bad decision.  The depreciation to date on the VW won’t be recovered, and I’d imagine the depreciation on the Tacoma over the next 3 years won’t be any more (likely less) than that on the Touareg over the same period.  

Congrats @jpp5862 - take it from me...That negative equity is much less bitter tasting when you’re driving a car you enjoy!  😀

Leave it to @breld to beat me to the "punch." He's not the king for no reason!

breld

xwesx said:

Well, let’s not be too harsh about the “foolishness” of choices made.  The question was asked and @jpp5862 was gracious enough to own up to it.  

The distinction between being upside down on a car loan and rolling negative equity into a new loan is negligible, not that you want to make a habit out of the latter (or the former for that matter).  

I’d say parking the sunk cost of the Touareg negative equity in a Tacoma is not a particularly bad decision.  The depreciation to date on the VW won’t be recovered, and I’d imagine the depreciation on the Tacoma over the next 3 years won’t be any more (likely less) than that on the Touareg over the same period.  

Congrats @jpp5862 - take it from me...That negative equity is much less bitter tasting when you’re driving a car you enjoy!  😀

Leave it to @breld to beat me to the "punch." He's not the king for no reason!

Well, I’m happy to serve as an example when it comes to purchase decisions.

“You think that’s bad, you should see what @breld did!”

Or...”You think that was a big hit on depreciation, you should see what @breld did!”

It goes on and on.  

I’m here for you all.  

qbrozen

I've rolled negative, I admit. I rolled a big chunk into the TDI to make it disappear with the buyback. i can't quite recall the dollar figure of my biggest mistake, but I do remember the vehicle. Back before I became an informed buyer, we went looking at random vehicles and the salesperson talked us into an off-lease Forester. I swear I think we paid damn near new cost for it. Wife then proceeded to bang it up a couple of times during our ownership. I believe we rolled somewhere in the $4k-$5k range into a new Honda Pilot with a 6-yr note. Luckily we did well on that and broke even in like 2.5-3 years. 

stickguy

Benjamin, I have not been able to drive a TLX 4 banger yet. maybe this weekend.

Carvana is easy. they don't care if I buy or not. The offer stands, and if I don't feel like driving it to their "silo" in Philly, they will send out a truck to pick it up, and hand me a check for the equity in it.

I am registered so they have the car stored in my account so if I find something I like and want to buy, they just apply the trade in credit (sales tax savings, and trade credit) to the deal, but the new car on the truck, drop it off, and take the old one away!

I did not get as far today as getting a trade in appraisal. I plan to do that tomorrow at some dealer, to see how they compare.

tbirdmarco

J P P congrats on the punch!  I did not see this cunning. So soon 

Michaell

xwesx said:

breld said:

Well, let’s not be too harsh about the “foolishness” of choices made.  The question was asked and @jpp5862 was gracious enough to own up to it.  

The distinction between being upside down on a car loan and rolling negative equity into a new loan is negligible, not that you want to make a habit out of the latter (or the former for that matter).  

I’d say parking the sunk cost of the Touareg negative equity in a Tacoma is not a particularly bad decision.  The depreciation to date on the VW won’t be recovered, and I’d imagine the depreciation on the Tacoma over the next 3 years won’t be any more (likely less) than that on the Touareg over the same period.  

Congrats @jpp5862 - take it from me...That negative equity is much less bitter tasting when you’re driving a car you enjoy!  😀

Leave it to @breld to beat me to the "punch." He's not the king for no reason!

I rolled over almost $3700 into the Outback - and, after almost 4 years into a 6 year loan, we're right side up. Which is one of the reasons I chose the Subaru - the phenomenal resale value here in Colorado

The fact that it has less than 30,000 miles doesn't hurt, either.

tbirdmarco

Q hopefully you get your documentation in time for the car to sell it to them

carnaught

@jpp5862, congrats! Very nice looking rig!

corvette

I like it, but blue would've been perfect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHTiEn72SOA