Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

tjc78

I find it funny that Edmund's posts are getting screen shots posted in other forums

tjc78

nyccarguy said:

Some quick math.  I think even with a crummy lease program like the GLI has right now, it’s still worth it to lease.  Using the 36/15K numbers provided in the “lease questions” thread by our smart, funny, & extremely talented hosts (.00214 & 53%), I came up with a mock lease payment (assuming a $2,000 discount from sticker) of $472.82 (including 6.35% sales tax) with 1st month, bank fee & DMV due at signing.  

Using that same $2,000 discount, before I even add interest.  The payment on a 60 month loan would be about $512/month.  

In 3 years, you turn the GLI in & get a new one at a cheaper payment because the program is better, you get more of a discount off of sticker.

thoughts?

I just couldn't do a lease like that... Our Enclave is only a little more and was 19K more expensive.

If VW ever needs to move these even at $350/ month it would be a lot of car for money (if still not a great lease.)

nyccarguy

I'll throw my hat into the GLI ring. The Autobahn really is a nice package. I'll take an Autobahn in Black/Black that none of you wants. The handling/ride would literally have to blow me out of the water to give up my Q40's 328 hp V6 & RWD (based AWD) chassis.

stickguy

Q, I think for my next car I will just hire you to negotiate the deal and pay you a broker fee.

And agreed about some cars better to buy. When I was shopping and we looked at CRVs, the lease cost was nuts. But the purchase discount was good, so if we had wanted to get that instead, would have bought on a 60 month finance.

tjc78

nyccarguy said:

I'll throw my hat into the GLI ring. The Autobahn really is a nice package. I'll take an Autobahn in Black/Black that none of you wants. The handling/ride would literally have to blow me out of the water to give up my Q40's 328 hp V6 & RWD (based AWD) chassis.

Nice package yes, but in all reality the Q is a better car IMO.

The kicker is you could walk into an Infiniti dealer and walk out with a Q for less money per month than the Jetta. Yes, the technology in the Q is much more dated than the Jetta but still has a lot of content and is well trimmed and quick

corvette

nyccarguy said:

I'll throw my hat into the GLI ring. The Autobahn really is a nice package. I'll take an Autobahn in Black/Black that none of you wants. The handling/ride would literally have to blow me out of the water to give up my Q40's 328 hp V6 & RWD (based AWD) chassis.

The performance numbers look similar, but the G37/Q40 is much more car, overall. Doesn’t quite have the same solid feel as one of the European competitors when you close the door, but the driving dynamics are superior to my old GLI. And the VQ engine just loves to rev. 

I’m concerned that the sunroof drain leak might have affected the BCM. Occasionally when I press the smart key button on the driver’s door handle, the car will unlock the door but also sound the alarm. Annoying but doesn’t seem to happen that often. 

nyccarguy

corvette said:

nyccarguy said:

I'll throw my hat into the GLI ring. The Autobahn really is a nice package. I'll take an Autobahn in Black/Black that none of you wants. The handling/ride would literally have to blow me out of the water to give up my Q40's 328 hp V6 & RWD (based AWD) chassis.

The performance numbers look similar, but the G37/Q40 is much more car, overall. Doesn’t quite have the same solid feel as one of the European competitors when you close the door, but the driving dynamics are superior to my old GLI. And the VQ engine just loves to rev. 

I’m concerned that the sunroof drain leak might have affected the BCM. Occasionally when I press the smart key button on the driver’s door handle, the car will unlock the door but also sound the alarm. Annoying but doesn’t seem to happen that often. 

Not sure if I have mentioned this before, but watch out when it rains with your G37. Open the trunk and the water drains right in. Same thing if there's snow on the deck lid. Open it up, and the snow will slide off of the deck lid and directly into the truck.

tjc78

My Elantra does that as well.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

Some quick math.  I think even with a crummy lease program like the GLI has right now, it’s still worth it to lease.  Using the 36/15K numbers provided in the “lease questions” thread by our smart, funny, & extremely talented hosts (.00214 & 53%), I came up with a mock lease payment (assuming a $2,000 discount from sticker) of $472.82 (including 6.35% sales tax) with 1st month, bank fee & DMV due at signing.  

Using that same $2,000 discount, before I even add interest.  The payment on a 60 month loan would be about $512/month.  

In 3 years, you turn the GLI in & get a new one at a cheaper payment because the program is better, you get more of a discount off of sticker.

thoughts?

You sure are playing fast and loose with the phrase “worth it.” You can lease a well-optioned 5-series for less than that. 

Yeah but it's a 5 series-- a nice "boulevardier".

kyfdx

I'd bet on a 5-series out-handling the GLI. Regardless of how you label it. Pretty sure my wife's X3 could give it a run.

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's not a matter of what it CAN do, it's a matter of what it feels like doing it. I remember one event where Janet Guthrie mopped up a field of sports cars driving a Jeep Cherokee during a demonstration for amateur drivers. It wasn't pretty but she did it.

kyfdx

My point is.. it's a FWD sedan. Very pretty, and a new model. But, it is a Jetta, and the lease pricing is ridiculous. I love VWs, but the value is iffy.

tjc78

I think there is value on a buy compared to other 30K options. On a lease, no. For almost 5 bills a month the field is far too populated with better choices.

28firefighter

Exactly right, @tjc78. For me, leasing is all relative to what I can get for similar money. Buying is a much different analysis for me - though I do see @nyccarguy 's point, as well.

ab348

We were comparing the GLI with the Mazda 3. How did Infinitis and BMW 5-series cars get into that?

tjc78

Similar monthly payments on a lease

28firefighter

I think the more general point to make is that cheaper cars can lease like expensive cars and expensive cars can lease like a cheaper car. Occasionally those two categories overlap and at that point, you need to consider which you should get even if it was not previously on your radar.

Infinitis and end of model year BMWs can lease at 0.5% - 0.75% of MSRP or there about if you catch it right.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

xwesx said:

nyccarguy said:

Some quick math.  I think even with a crummy lease program like the GLI has right now, it’s still worth it to lease.  Using the 36/15K numbers provided in the “lease questions” thread by our smart, funny, & extremely talented hosts (.00214 & 53%), I came up with a mock lease payment (assuming a $2,000 discount from sticker) of $472.82 (including 6.35% sales tax) with 1st month, bank fee & DMV due at signing.  

Using that same $2,000 discount, before I even add interest.  The payment on a 60 month loan would be about $512/month.  

In 3 years, you turn the GLI in & get a new one at a cheaper payment because the program is better, you get more of a discount off of sticker.

thoughts?

If you are going to turn over your vehicles on a regular basis (e.g., you'll "always" have a car payment), it makes sense to go with a lease in nearly every case. You only come out ahead on a buy when you can amortize the cost of the purchase over a period of time when you *don't* have a car payment any longer. The longer the period of time, the better it works out.

“Nearly” is probably accurate. I would advise purchase over lease just on certain subarus, hondas, toyotas, and porsches. Anything with a realistic RV, high MF, and low trunk money. 

What about a Wrangler Unlimited?

Mr_Shiftright

I would agree with that--if it's a fair comparison, the Mazda3 is a way better value type of purchase.

28firefighter

I think Wrangler is a case-by-case basis. Some months and some banks have crazy high residuals that it makes more sense to lease. But since they tend to hold their value pretty well, it can also make more sense to buy if you're comfortable with the risk.

tifighter

If you want one, then a Wrangler seems like a buy all day long. Demand is high so there's no incentive for FCA to play lease games, and they hold their value well enough to where used rarely makes sense. And you get that strong resale yourself later if you decide to get out of it.

ab348

tjc78 said:

Similar monthly payments on a lease

Ah. I always skip over lease discussions here because they are meaningless to me up here in the Great White North.

qbrozen

What 28ff said.

Sometimes Wranglers have good leases. Even if the residual is low, as long as the MF is low, I'd say lease it. Equity at the end of a lease is not a bad thing.

xwesx

Michaell said:

Accord APR went from 2.9% last month to 4.9% this month.

ouch.....!

Michaell

xwesx said:

Michaell said:

Accord APR went from 2.9% last month to 4.9% this month.

ouch.....!

And, half the country saw the Accord MF go from .00118 to .00180.

marcogallo1986

 The west, thanks for the concern, but just fine the steering is good and the guy that I was driving for me nauseous classic cars and kept remarking how comfortable this car is the drive to drive it for hours. I wouldn’t do that for long it was traffic on the highway two. And drove it on local roads as well. Too bad won’t be able to get out in it and drive in it this weekend, my cousins not be able to make it over here has something to do. We’ll see maybe some of the family might be willing would be cool, will be such a beautiful weekend, anyway have to get out and wash it see the play board that I bought maybe will do that 

marcogallo1986

 Yes your car guy, that’s what I was trying to do, ha ha Ha sorry catching up now haven’t been here since yesterday guys. 

marcogallo1986

 20 firefighter, that’s a nice Jenna you posted I want of your local dealers. 

marcogallo1986

Lol  sorry all, voice dictation is a little drunk tonight. Ha ha ha what’s everyone up to for the weekend? And happy Friday all. 

corvette

tifighter said:

If you want one, then a Wrangler seems like a buy all day long.

And what if I don't want one?

corvette

marcogallo1986 said:

Lol  sorry all, voice dictation is a little drunk tonight. Ha ha ha what’s everyone up to for the weekend? And happy Friday all. 

Happy Friday, Marco! I have plans with friends on both Saturday and Sunday, which is somewhat unusual for me, but I'm glad to have the company. Hope everyone else has a great weekend.

ronsteve

xwesx said:

nyccarguy said:

Some quick math.  I think even with a crummy lease program like the GLI has right now, it’s still worth it to lease.  Using the 36/15K numbers provided in the “lease questions” thread by our smart, funny, & extremely talented hosts (.00214 & 53%), I came up with a mock lease payment (assuming a $2,000 discount from sticker) of $472.82 (including 6.35% sales tax) with 1st month, bank fee & DMV due at signing.  

Using that same $2,000 discount, before I even add interest.  The payment on a 60 month loan would be about $512/month.  

In 3 years, you turn the GLI in & get a new one at a cheaper payment because the program is better, you get more of a discount off of sticker.

thoughts?

If you are going to turn over your vehicles on a regular basis (e.g., you'll "always" have a car payment), it makes sense to go with a lease in nearly every case. You only come out ahead on a buy when you can amortize the cost of the purchase over a period of time when you *don't* have a car payment any longer. The longer the period of time, the better it works out.

The other wild card is how many miles you drive. If you're more than 15K a year then leasing becomes tricky at best. Some programs turn ugly over 12K or even 10K now.

ronsteve

stickguy said:

Gorgeous car. Congrats. What model is that, a 400? Straight 6?

I’ll wager you are probably the only 40ish single guy in the country driving a new Benz station wagon!

I was 36 and single when I bought the Volvo!

You know I was leaving my local Y after my swim today and saw an E350 and was thinking what a beautiful car it was.

Michaell

ronsteve said:

xwesx said:

nyccarguy said:

Some quick math.  I think even with a crummy lease program like the GLI has right now, it’s still worth it to lease.  Using the 36/15K numbers provided in the “lease questions” thread by our smart, funny, & extremely talented hosts (.00214 & 53%), I came up with a mock lease payment (assuming a $2,000 discount from sticker) of $472.82 (including 6.35% sales tax) with 1st month, bank fee & DMV due at signing.  

Using that same $2,000 discount, before I even add interest.  The payment on a 60 month loan would be about $512/month.  

In 3 years, you turn the GLI in & get a new one at a cheaper payment because the program is better, you get more of a discount off of sticker.

thoughts?

If you are going to turn over your vehicles on a regular basis (e.g., you'll "always" have a car payment), it makes sense to go with a lease in nearly every case. You only come out ahead on a buy when you can amortize the cost of the purchase over a period of time when you *don't* have a car payment any longer. The longer the period of time, the better it works out.

The other wild card is how many miles you drive. If you're more than 15K a year then leasing becomes tricky at best. Some programs turn ugly over 12K or even 10K now.

I'm gonna disagree.

While the residual does go down (usually on a per-mile basis, but both Ford and MB have quoted residuals for more than 15K per year), you are still locking in a fixed amount of depreciation, and therefore the payment. That way, you aren't guessing what your end value is at the end of the lease. If you purchase, and put on 20,000 miles a year, you are risking taking a bigger bath when you go to trade it in.

Most residual adjustments are pretty stabile - if 15K is the "base" miles per year, almost every make adds 2% to it for 12K and 3% for 10K (assuming a 36 month lease). There is an exception here and there.

In my household, we have both a lease (Jetta) and a purchase (Outback). The lease is to keep a minimum payment for a reliable vehicle, but when the lease is up in August, the car will go back (with probably 17-18K on the odometer) and not get replaced.

The Outback is 4 years old, and has about 33,000 miles. Less than 2 years left on the loan, and it should be around 50K miles. Lots of life left in it, at that point, with no payment. Hoping to keep it for 10 years, total, at which point it will still have less than 100K on it, and be worth a crazy amount of money (because, Subaru and Colorado).

marcogallo1986

 Very nice Corvette, enjoy your weekend yes the company is always good. Think I timed the paint the trunk of the Thunderbird I’ve had the poor 15 for a couple of years go do what I Gotta do by myself to take my time you should turn out halfway decent. 

nyccarguy

"you are still locking in a fixed amount of depreciation, and therefore the payment. That way, you aren't guessing what your end value is at the end of the lease. If you purchase, and put on 20,000 miles a year, you are risking taking a bigger bath when you go to trade it in.

Exactly. I drive upwards of 20K miles per year. Anything I trade in is pretty much going straight to auction or wholesale whether it "glows in the dark" or not. I keep my cars clean, but by no means are they perfect. We should lease. I'd like to get myself into something like a 2 year lease on a demo 330xi like @qbrozen. This way I stay within the warranty period while I'm leasing. We put about 18,000 miles per year on my wife's Pilot, but those lease terribly. I was quoted something like $588/month for 36/15K per year lease back in December 2017. Not good on a $40K SUV.

graphicguy

OK....you lease gurus have me wondering. I don’t lease. I buy! But, hearing numbers you guys are throwing around, especially comparing a 5 Series lease being better than a VW? What numbers are you getting? How are you coming up with them?

Still got my eyes on a 2121 Acura TLX S-Type. But, a well optioned 5 series? Hmmmmmm!

breld

2121?  Now that’s some planning ahead!  

I assume it will have the hover option we’ve all been waiting for since watching the Jetsons after school.  

Mr_Shiftright

corvette said:

tifighter said:

If you want one, then a Wrangler seems like a buy all day long.

And what if I don't want one?

Then you'd be like me!

Michaell

graphicguy said:

OK....you lease gurus have me wondering. I don’t lease. I buy! But, hearing numbers you guys are throwing around, especially comparing a 5 Series lease being better than a VW? What numbers are you getting? How are you coming up with them?

Still got my eyes on a 2121 Acura TLX S-Type. But, a well optioned 5 series? Hmmmmmm!

We are pulling examples from opposite ends of the spectrum.

The GLI is brand new, and has a worse than average lease program. Probably not much in the way of discounts, either.

The BMW program isn't all that great, but you can lease a demo or service loaner and get 15-20% off MSRP, before incentives. And, if you use MSDs to buy down the MF, you save even more.

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

OK....you lease gurus have me wondering. I don’t lease. I buy! But, hearing numbers you guys are throwing around, especially comparing a 5 Series lease being better than a VW? What numbers are you getting? How are you coming up with them? Still got my eyes on a 2121 Acura TLX S-Type. But, a well optioned 5 series? Hmmmmmm!

Either from brokers, like the one I posted, or from others sharing their lease deals. 

Gotta be open to options to get the best deal. Someone who just “has to have” a new S4 isn’t going to get a good deal. But the person keeping an eye on MB C and E, BMW 3 and 5, S60 and 90, etc, is likely going to get a relatively cheap lease. 

fintail

Just don't bargain hunt for an AMG or E wagon lease, you won't find the deal of the century (ask me how I know). But sometimes you gotta live a little. However, on discontinued or leftover models, bargains can be out there. The Bluetec lease was a pretty sweet deal, 69K MSRP for under $600/month pretax.

tifighter

breld said:

2121?  Now that’s some planning ahead!  

 

If I only bought one car between now and 2021, I’d be pleasantly surprised. And I’m not even @breld ...

stickguy

I might not get any. Until maybe 12/2021 at least.

suydam

My Volt lease is up in December, so I have to make a decision one way or another by then.

sda

suydam said:

My Volt lease is up in December, so I have to make a decision one way or another by then.

The Volt has the best compromise that doesn’t give range anxiety or strand you unless it runs out of gas. It’s a good car, period. Since you like so much, why not just buy it?

suydam

That’s what I’m thinking now. We will see in December!

marcogallo1986

 I think also like stated above, since you like it so much, you should buy the vault. 

marcogallo1986

 Yes we might have a option of a craft, like in the Jetsons yes I think most of us used to watch that show we were kids loved it. 

ab348

A nice day here today in advance of what they are saying is going to be a miserable 3 days Mon-Wed., with up to 6" of snow overnight Monday into Tuesday. Disgusting. I took a drive today and swung past the Autoport here which is pretty full of vehicles offloaded from ships awaiting pickup by truck or train. It is quite something to see all these white-wrapped vehicles as far as the eye can see. Aside from the usual large number of BMWs, and Benzes, there were a surprising number of 911s parked near the fence, giving a good view. Because of the wrap it was hard to tell exactly what they were but they were clearly 911s and not Boxsters or Caymans. It appeared some were getting things installed at the port as there were also a number across the road outside a port building where that kind of work is done.