Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

jmonroe

breld said:

The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

Typical service department; bounce a warranty claim then start back-peddling. I've had that happen. It's a loong story but in the end I got some revenge but was still out 3 grand.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

jmonroe

nyccarguy

breld said:

Just visited the service dept at our VW dealership.

First, they let us know the clutch had failed and needs to be replaced. Yup, we figured that out on our own.

Second, the advisor stated the cost of the replacement is $3,200, to which my wife quickly replied, "covered under warranty," to which he quickly said, "no, it's considered a wear item."

The plot thickens. It sucks that YOU have to call customer care to fight for this.

corvette

That stinks. Sounds like a typical VW dis-service department. I thought even wear items were generally covered for 1 year / 12k for most makes?

I predict a punch once the dust settles here. And probably no more VW purchases in the breld household for quite some time.

tjc78

@breld
Stunned on this. Let’s hope they make it right.

breld

corvette said:

I predict a punch once the dust settles here. And probably no more VW purchases in the breld household for quite some time.

This is correct.

Maybe the stars align this time with @kyfdx and my GTI.

kyfdx

breld said:

The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

If the problem is the cooling lines, how can that be related to clutch wear, anyway?

Them: Not covered
Me: Get ready for the worst week of your life

kyfdx

breld said:

corvette said:

I predict a punch once the dust settles here. And probably no more VW purchases in the breld household for quite some time.

This is correct.

Maybe the stars align this time with @kyfdx and my GTI.

Can you have the clutch checked out, first? I hear you Denverites like to ride them.

graphicguy

xwesx said:

graphicguy said:

Yes....got a Stinger a couple of weeks ago.

Nice; congrats! Don't forget to update that signature line.

Thanks. Tried to update the siggy several times. Edmunds won’t allow it for some reason!

breld said:

Just visited the service dept at our VW dealership.

First, they let us know the clutch had failed and needs to be replaced. Yup, we figured that out on our own.

Second, the advisor stated the cost of the replacement is $3,200, to which my wife quickly replied, "covered under warranty," to which he quickly said, "no, it's considered a wear item."

Uh....Oh....that’s not good! Bad decision on VW’s end. Hope they see the light!

28firefighter

So shortsighted. It'd be one thing if the primary driver was someone young and new to driving manual, but come on now.

Any reports on other forums as far as premature clutch wear?

au1994

breld said:

The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

No, just no. Even a newbie would have a hard time roasting a clutch in 8k miles.

Good luck. Once the dust settled I’m anxious to see what the replacement will be.

Definitely gives me pause on looking at an Atlas at some point.

qbrozen

breld said:

The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

Please ask how exactly a worn clutch plate makes the clutch pedal drop to the floor. I feel the need to understand this because it is the exact opposite of all my experience.

breld

Yeah, I know so little about the mechanics of a clutch system so am unable to ask the right questions or make those kinds of observations, but I do need to make sure to get all relevant facts from their investigation.

My wife just got off the phone with customer care and they've escalated it, so nothing new at this point, which is what I expected. She did ask that the vehicle be bought back, which I advised her to do in the spirit of "may as well ask." At a minimum, I would want them to offer a warranty on the replaced clutch. I mean, the failed clutch was a new one 9k miles ago too...are we to be driving it on pins and needles waiting for another failure?

We'll see...my wife has a gift with words, so I'm letting her handle the correspondence.

stickguy

I would tell them not to touch it again until this is resolved. Because I would be getting a 2nd opinion from an expert if they are digging in to not cover it. Clutches can wear, with slipping along the way, but don’t just die.

stickguy

Send a Graphic guy in to handle this. VW will rue the day they messed with you!

corvette

kyfdx said:

If the problem is the cooling lines, how can that be related to clutch wear, anyway?

'twas me with the leaky oil cooler lines on the Tahoe. I don't think breld mentioned anything about cooler lines on the Alltrack.

breld

Our Golf R had a clutch that didn't quite feel right and stuck sometimes.

There was zero indication that anything was going on with the Alltrack, and for that matter, no warning lights ever came on at all, even when the failure occurred. My wife had taken a picture of the instrument panel as she was being pulled to the side of the road to show that there were no such warning lights.

28firefighter

Bad bad form, especially given the history we have with driver's former A4 clutch. I'm a big VW guy but this is enough to turn me away...

xwesx

breld said:

The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

There's no way that failure was caused by "wear," in which case saying that it is a wear item is just totally asinine. You should get photographs of exactly WHAT failed in there.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

breld said:

The second part of the conversation was all about meeting with his supervisor and the VW rep and seeing if something could be done as a "goodwill" gesture. And he encouraged us to call Customer Care so VW can get going on it too.

I think he could have started out with what the options are before blurting out that it isn't covered, but nevertheless, I thought worst case was that clearly it will be covered under warranty and then we'll have to make decisions on our comfort level with the car after the repair. I still think that may happen, but the worst case scenario is significantly worse.

Please ask how exactly a worn clutch plate makes the clutch pedal drop to the floor. I feel the need to understand this because it is the exact opposite of all my experience.

Yeah, I totally agree. I have experienced a lot of clutch issues in my life, and not a single one reflects this scenario in any way.

Michaell

FWIW, @breld texted me a link to a possible Alltrack replacement, last night...

...and, we've been kicking around replacements for the GTI. Not many manual transmission fun cars left (and, an even fewer number that @breld hasn't already owned...)

corvette

Their reasoning sounds along the lines of "sorry the brake caliper on your new car broke in half, but since brakes are a wear item, it's not covered under warranty."

mjfloyd1

breld said:

corvette said:

I predict a punch once the dust settles here. And probably no more VW purchases in the breld household for quite some time.

This is correct.

Maybe the stars align this time with @kyfdx and my GTI.

@breld - I don't recall if you bought the alltrack new or used. What was in service date?

Never mind, I just looked back and saw it was new in August of 2019. I wonder why the dealership service department is making this so painful as it is <12 months and <12k miles???

pensfan83

I'd be a bit jaded too if a critical part failed prematurely and that's the response I get Especially since I would have concerns over another failure on that same part and that response does little to alleviate the concern it wouldn't happen again.

cdnpinhead

If it's a wear item, it doesn't pack up all at once -- it wears out. The disk has to be worn down for the "wear item" excuse to be valid. My guess is that the service adviser has no clue how a clutch on a manual transmission works. If they're going to try to stick you with the repair bill, demand to have the disk as evidence that it was worn out.

Good luck. The clutch on my 2008 Acura TSX is still working fine at 161K miles.

I've rented VW products in the past, but given what I've seen here, I wouldn't be caught dead buying one.

corvette

What about an Outback with the new turbo engine? Subaru seems to take care of their customers when things go wrong.

breld

Thanks to everyone for the condolences and advice. It provides me a lot of insight on points to bring up with them.

mjfloyd1

Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf

28firefighter

You could park it out front with a giant lemon on it. That might be effective.

stickguy

Well, there is no proof so far the clutch disk us, in fact, worn out. If it were, you would see gradual deterioration in performance, and not a pedal that stuck to the floor.

nyccarguy

breld said:

Thanks to everyone for the condolences and advice. It provides me a lot of insight on points to bring up with them.

I really hope this works out for you guys. It just sucks because you are such VW fans.

kyfdx

mjfloyd1 said:

Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf

I can see that. A clutch disc doesn't wear out, except from use/abuse. And, I'll guess that @breld 's clutch disc is in good shape, too. (we shall see, I guess)

kyfdx

corvette said:

kyfdx said:

If the problem is the cooling lines, how can that be related to clutch wear, anyway?

'twas me with the leaky oil cooler lines on the Tahoe. I don't think breld mentioned anything about cooler lines on the Alltrack.

Thanks!

mjfloyd1

kyfdx said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf

I can see that. A clutch disc doesn't wear out, except from use/abuse. And, I'll guess that @breld 's clutch disc is in good shape, too. (we shall see, I guess)

Surely you are right. Something must have broken and if the clutch disc is broken, it was taken out by that.

28firefighter

Yes, but don't call me shirley.

pensfan83

These people need to go to a hospital.
What is it?
It's a big place where sick people go

breld

corvette said:

What about an Outback with the new turbo engine? Subaru seems to take care of their customers when things go wrong.

Anything with the 5 star logo would not get far with Mrs. Breld.

jmonroe

mjfloyd1 said:

kyfdx said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf

I can see that. A clutch disc doesn't wear out, except from use/abuse. And, I'll guess that @breld 's clutch disc is in good shape, too. (we shall see, I guess)

Surely you are right. Something must have broken and if the clutch disc is broken, it was taken out by that.

The service advisor is shooting from the hip. Not all that surprising. Probably saw something about "disc wear" somewhere and threw that out. There's a pretty good chance he's never even driven a stick. Oh, he knows what a clutch pedal is but if he had to move a car with a stick, it would barely move and the car would reek from that awful smell. I'm laying odds on that. Anyone in here think otherwise?

jmonroe

explorerx4

@breld,
Sorry to hear about your family being stranded on the the road and glad they are OK.
The only time I had a clutch pedal drop to the floor and not come back up was when the clutch cable snapped.
Hydraulic clutches don't have a cable, but like qbrozen said, clutch wear doesn't seem to be the root cause.

mjfloyd1

28firefighter said:

Yes, but don't call me shirley.

Shirley you jest

corvette

I was thinking part of the linkage broke, but VW may only sell it as an entire assembly, ergo, it’s a $3k “clutch assembly” and not covered.

kyfdx

pensfan83 said:

These people need to go to a hospital.
What is it?
It's a big place where sick people go

Just got back from the Poconos? 🙄

corvette

@breld, you seemed to like the Mazda3, and it’s been a while since you owned one.

ab348

mjfloyd1 said:

Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf

Indeed. That implies that a clutch disc can never be defective from new.

graphicguy

breld said:

Thanks to everyone for the condolences and advice. It provides me a lot of insight on points to bring up with them.

Ridiculous. I wouldn’t even bother arguing with them. I’d go immediately to whatever process VW offers for mediation. Something tells me this is an asinine dealer issue. Crazy to waste time arguing with them.

I wouldn’t spend a nickel for this issue. And, I’d start keeping a running total of the costs for time wasted dealing with this.

This kind of attitude steams my cockles!

omarman

mjfloyd1 said:

Strangely the VW warranty flat out says clutch disc is not covered unless the replacement is necessary as a part of warranty service on a covered component. That's nuts.

https://www.vw.com/content/dam/vwcom/brochures/2019/Warranty Booklet-2019.pdf

It might still work out ok because maybe the clutch master cylinder or even the clutch pedal linkage failed which should all be covered by warranty. And if any of that resulted in damage to the clutch disc, then if necessary the clutch should be replaced under warranty due to damage caused by the covered component.

As others have posted it doesn't sound like the clutch wore out either by use or abuse. Something else broke.

stickguy

agreed. and also sounds like the service writer spoke too soon and put his foot in mouth. Either that or it is a shyster operation and they are told to deny every warranty claim possible as the first move.

roadburner

Driver's Audi and now this fiasco make me extremely hesitant to deal with those automakers.

nyccarguy

A lot of you guys know A LOT more about this than I do @cdnpinhead , @roadburner , @qbrozen .

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.autoblog.com/amp/2016/12/08/how-to-troubleshoot-a-clutch-pedal-sticking-to-the-floor/

breld

corvette said:

@breld, you seemed to like the Mazda3, and it’s been a while since you owned one.

Definitely on the list.

As well as the option of reversing course and getting another Miata.

stickguy

so not only are you ditching the Alltrack, going to punt the GTI too, and make a clean break from VAG?