Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

breld

@28firefighter - thanks for the feedback.

@benjaminh - yup, the visibility in the Supra is compromised to say the least. Blind spot monitoring and rear cross traffic alert are a must.

roadburner

breld said:

Anyway - I recognize all my chatter on the subject may get to an annoying state. Thanks all for the support and feedback.

You are not annoying- annoying was the blockhead who spent months looking at a particular car model that was terminally mediocre on its best day. He took offense and left once he finally realized that everyone else thought his taste in cars was beyond miserable.

oldfarmer50

mjfloyd1 said:

Red Supras look good to me

https://www.toyotaofmuncie.com/inventory/new-2020-toyota-supra-premium-rwd-2d-coupe-wz1db4c01lw027256/

I agree.

mjfloyd1

breld said:

@oldfarmer50 - there are no mundane car acquisitions. Share them all!

Agreed. Daughter #2 turns 15 this COVID summer so I’ll be looking for a CRV or RAV 4

oldfarmer50

“Anyway - I recognize all my chatter on the subject may get to an annoying state. Thanks all for the support and feedback”

On the contrary, I’m glad to see someone else agonize over a buying decision.

mjfloyd1

breld said:

stickguy said:

Michaell said:

breld said:

28firefighter said:

It’s a lot of money to be second guessing.

Agreed. Because it’s a lot of money, I’m trying to be thoughtful though it’s obviously a very emotionally driven purchase.

Any second guessing is not with the car, but with the timing and my patience (lack thereof).

@michaell’s input is to wait a bit longer for used examples like I did with the Miata. I don’t disagree...but (in child’s whiny voice) I want it now. 😀

That's only half of it.

I also suggested he find a nice TT roadster or TTS for now, then shop for a used Supra in a year, give or take, when the folks who "had to have one now" realize it's shortcomings - or kick themselves when they realize the 2021 will have 50 more HP.

We had a long talk this morning in my garage when he came to pick up the 2. Lots of ground was covered, and I find it interesting, and somewhat amusing, that he didn't pull the trigger on one today.

Good thing dealers are closed in CO on Sundays, so he will have one more day to think on this before ultimately pulling the trigger (my opinion).

sounding to me like rushing into it. and at that price point, can certainly end badly! if the 2021 is that much better, makes sense to wait. Though it almost seems like a case of talking yourself into something because it seems like it should be wonderful, when it really isn't. But what do I know?

other than flashy and polarizing style, and being a slushbox, how much different is the Supra than the 2 series? I don't recall though if that is the 4 or the 6 motor.

If the 2 series really has worn out it's welcome, a used TT as a diversion does seem to make sense. The Supra, only if you are confident it will be something (like the Type R) where it will hold value abnormally well on the used market.

hey, it is a RWD sports car. You live in the mountains. December is the time to buy one of those, not June!

though as always, YMMV, I'm not an experts, yada yada yada!

oh, bottom line, the current car, a Supra, or a TT convertible, no losers in that bunch!

@stickguy - that’s a great post. Thanks.

I’m probably over sharing when I try not to do so here, but it is certainly helpful to air out my thinking with this group who understands not only the vehicles themselves, but the emotional/mental side of buying cars.

Um...as for the 2 series, to your point, if I didn’t have that I think it’d be easier to pull the trigger. While it’s “only” the 4 cylinder, it does have 240 hp, is rear wheel drive and a great blend of comfort and sport. And while I’m not opposed in the least anymore to a good automatic, the 2 does have the manual. So...it’s really nice for 1/3 of the cost.

And on the other hand, to be fair, clearly the Supra is a purer sports car. The acceleration (for what I have owned) is crazy, the sounds are wonderful, I LOVE the styling, and while it’s a firmer ride as you’d expect, it’s still comfortable enough to drive around all day. Considering the competition it’s pitted against, I see it as a good value and in many ways mimics a BMW M car (as I haven’t actually owned an M car, I may be speaking sacrilege).

So to be clear, I’m 99.9% sure a Supra will be in our garage. I’m just questioning how much it’s worth to be more patient - and that probably means a used 2020. I’m not waiting just to go out and pay sticker or near-sticker for a 2021. The current deals on the remaining 2020’s have obviously piqued my interest (along with my wife practically pushing me out the door to go get it...man I love her). It’s certainly a great time to buy a new Supra compared to those who had to be first in line and paid above sticker - I just need to decide if the additional premium of buying now over waiting for the used market is worth having it the garage now (well...tomorrow). 😀

Anyway - I recognize all my chatter on the subject may get to an annoying state. Thanks all for the support and feedback.

Agreed. I suspect these discounts will affect used “BMW” Supra pricing.

oldfarmer50

breld said:

@oldfarmer50 - there are no mundane car acquisitions. Share them all!

Yeah, I guess. Hoovie made a career out of buying hoopties.

suydam

@breld dont worry about oversharing. We all love a good car buying drama. I’m not buying anything for the foreseeable future so it’s Fun to ride along online.

ab348

I haven’t weighed in on @breld and his buy/don’t buy dilemma but I will now. After mulling it over I would buy the 2020 with the discount. In silver (more to my taste) or whatever color he prefers. If I could find a launch edition with red leather I would snag that but I would guess they are long gone. I’d hesitate to buy one used unless I knew the history well, since these kind of cars tend to get beat on early in ownership by some buyers.

That advice is worth what you paid for it of course. 😁

rayainsw

breld - "Anyone feel compelled to warn me off the 2020 model given the power and suspension improvements for 2021?"
Not really - however, I drove my 340i for 3 years [ lease ]
and now just passed 2,000 miles in my M340i.
These 2 generations of BMW I-6 are quite clearly
[ from the very first drive ] different in TQ generation.
Just my observation.
- Ray
FWIW

corvette

@oldfarmer50 - what year and mileage on the Fusion? I’ll add it to the list.

andres3

I would say the Supra can be beat on forever since it's a Toyota, but it's really a BMW. From what I know of BMW's, they don't mind being beat up on either.

nyccarguy

Someone I used to work with is selling a mid 90s E Class Wagon on BAT. I’m curious to see it.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

@oldfarmer50 - what year and mileage on the Fusion? I’ll add it to the list.

2010 SEL. Florida car so no rust. 29k miles. Belonged to the sales manager’s grandma (or so they claimed). Probably never driven over 30 so a bottle of Techron is in order.

roadburner

Like I’ve said; the Supra is unquestionably a great car, but it’s neither fish nor fowl from a heritage standpoint. The Toyota badge doesn’t worry me at all, but the capability of Toyota dealers to properly service is concerning.
Of course breld likely won’t keep it long enough for a service to become due.

tifighter

benjaminh said:

andres3 said:

Wow, the kinds of issues you'd expect in a Chrysler, but everyone excuses them because they are "cheap." Not so with Tesla, big $$$$.

Yeah. And from what I've been reading and watching Tesla service is often slow and sometimes mediocre. They don't have enough spare parts, they don't have enough technicians, they don't have enough service centers, and when your warranty ends it seems like you go even farther back to the back of a very long line waiting for anything. No thanks.

FWIW - completely not my experience having two of them. Service, which isn't needed much, has been good. I did have a 12V battery die on the X one evening last December (this happened to my Leaf as well) and they sent mobile service out with a new battery the next morning. I didn't need it sooner so that was fine for me, and I live about 40 miles from the service center. The tech used to work for a VW dealer and said it was night and day difference working there, but let's all admit that VW is a pretty low bar and move on. He did have an opinion on Audi's V8 efforts he brought up for some reason. He also did have a Cybertruck on order to replace his Ram truck, which seemed like a good sign.

I did get the reach out a few weeks ago to get my driving computer upgraded to the latest one on the X, so I took it in and they gave me a S loaner for a same day service. No charge and no issues. I'd buy another, but you all expect me to say that.

In the end, none of this matters if you don't like driving the car, so until you try one, the imagined downstream experience is secondary. And yes, I used to own an Acura and many Hondas, so I do have some context.

benjaminh

@tifighter : That's good to hear. But my nearest service center is 116 miles away. So they'd send a van from there down to me if I owned a Tesla and needed it? And I read somewhere that even some of the service centers that exist might be closed—or has that plan been put on ice?

tifighter

breld said:

So to be clear, I’m 99.9% sure a Supra will be in our garage. I’m just questioning how much it’s worth to be more patient - and that probably means a used 2020. I’m not waiting just to go out and pay sticker or near-sticker for a 2021. The current deals on the remaining 2020’s have obviously piqued my interest (along with my wife practically pushing me out the door to go get it...man I love her). It’s certainly a great time to buy a new Supra compared to those who had to be first in line and paid above sticker - I just need to decide if the additional premium of buying now over waiting for the used market is worth having it the garage now (well...tomorrow). 😀

Anyway - I recognize all my chatter on the subject may get to an annoying state. Thanks all for the support and feedback.

Okay, I'll say this. I think that these may not be as good of a deal used as you might think for a few years. There has been a lot of hype around the Supra, as we all know. Some buyers won't consider a new one right now as they imagine they are really expensive, maybe have an ADM, etc. We know this doesn't match the reality on the market, and there are incentives now. This happens a lot with first year 'hot' cars, because the manufacturer over estimates the demand and guesses on a production quantity. Voila, too much stock. That won't happen for 2021, I promise you.

In a year, when a UCM gets one of these on the lot, they are going to think this was an ADM car, plus it's a 'Toyota' and will charge appropriately. Like the Civic Type-R, these will go from being nailed to the showroom floor thanks to a greedy sales manager, to a used car that a seller will be way too proud of. I think that if you can get a good deal now with incentives, you'll get to enjoy the car, and not get an unpleasant surprise later when dealers are listing used ones with 13K miles for $2K under MSRP. And maybe you could do even better on the trade value than you'd think in a year when you want to move on. Just my take.

tifighter

benjaminh said:

@tifighter : That's good to hear. But my nearest service center is 116 miles away. So they'd send a van from there down to me if I owned a Tesla and needed it? And I read somewhere that even some of the service centers that exist might be closed—or has that plan been put on ice?

Tesla is public, no guessing required. Service center numbers are disclosed-

qbrozen

Dad's truck is sold. Well, essentially. My nephew's mom's boyfriend put a deposit on it and asked me to hold it till July. I don't really have a problem with it since it has been sitting here this long already.

roadburner

benjaminh said:

@tifighter : That's good to hear. But my nearest service center is 116 miles away. So they'd send a van from there down to me if I owned a Tesla and needed it? And I read somewhere that even some of the service centers that exist might be closed—or has that plan been put on ice?

An attorney in my county bought a Tesla and the Cincinnati center promised they would pick up the car if it needed service. He then had a problem that rendered the car undriveable and the center said it was his responsibility to bring it to Cincy- their pickup/delivery policy had changed.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Dad's truck is sold. Well, essentially. My nephew's mom's boyfriend put a deposit on it and asked me to hold it till July. I don't really have a problem with it since it has been sitting here this long already.

I sold a cheap car once and the guy paid me and then left it for two weeks. Said he had to give his girlfriend some “lovin’” to get her to pay for the registration.

Michaell

their pickup/delivery policy had changed.

That seems to be a recurring theme with Tesla.

breld

Again, thanks all for the feedback and talking it out.

@tifighter - thanks for sharing your experience on the Tesla front. It’s nice to have your real world examples. And thanks for your input on the Supra - appreciate it (and I like that reasoning!).

suydam

tifighter said:

breld said:

So to be clear, I’m 99.9% sure a Supra will be in our garage. I’m just questioning how much it’s worth to be more patient - and that probably means a used 2020. I’m not waiting just to go out and pay sticker or near-sticker for a 2021. The current deals on the remaining 2020’s have obviously piqued my interest (along with my wife practically pushing me out the door to go get it...man I love her). It’s certainly a great time to buy a new Supra compared to those who had to be first in line and paid above sticker - I just need to decide if the additional premium of buying now over waiting for the used market is worth having it the garage now (well...tomorrow). 😀

Anyway - I recognize all my chatter on the subject may get to an annoying state. Thanks all for the support and feedback.

Okay, I'll say this. I think that these may not be as good of a deal used as you might think for a few years. There has been a lot of hype around the Supra, as we all know. Some buyers won't consider a new one right now as they imagine they are really expensive, maybe have an ADM, etc. We know this doesn't match the reality on the market, and there are incentives now. This happens a lot with first year 'hot' cars, because the manufacturer over estimates the demand and guesses on a production quantity. Voila, too much stock. That won't happen for 2021, I promise you.

In a year, when a UCM gets one of these on the lot, they are going to think this was an ADM car, plus it's a 'Toyota' and will charge appropriately. Like the Civic Type-R, these will go from being nailed to the showroom floor thanks to a greedy sales manager, to a used car that a seller will be way too proud of. I think that if you can get a good deal now with incentives, you'll get to enjoy the car, and not get an unpleasant surprise later when dealers are listing used ones with 13K miles for $2K under MSRP. And maybe you could do even better on the trade value than you'd think in a year when you want to move on. Just my take.

But since @breid seldom keeps a car for more than 6 months, what’s the worry?

corvette

@kyfdx - does the US Bank lease extension offer include additional mileage according (e.g., if the lease was 3 years / 36k, you'd be at 3.5 years, 42k with a 6 month extension)?

tifighter

I just went and looked at the Toyota website. I'm surprised by how many colors are offered on a fairly low-volume product like the Supra. If there's a color you like, now is the time to get it, IMHO...

breld

@roadburner - this yellow makes the yellow on the Supra appear subtle.

Is this M4 up your alley?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/811173603/overview/

Michaell

breld said:

@roadburner - this yellow makes the yellow on the Supra appear subtle.

Is this M4 up your alley?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/811173603/overview/

I think that may have been the car used at the BMW event I attended a couple of years ago. I never had the chance to drive it, as all the flat-brimmed bros were fighting for seat time.

stickguy

So sounds like the silver one is arriving shortly!

kyfdx

corvette said:

@kyfdx - does the US Bank lease extension offer include additional mileage according (e.g., if the lease was 3 years / 36k, you'd be at 3.5 years, 42k with a 6 month extension)?

Yes

graphicguy

@benjaminh ....I have to say, my Acura dealer never pulled the old....change your oil every 3-5K miles...get our overpriced fancy fuel injector service, etc.

Whenever I would ask them about service, the answer was always the same....come in when the service indicator comes on. I liked that.

That said, the ~6 months I’ve owned the Stinger, not once have I heard from their service dept to come in. Although, I’m probably close to getting an oil change as it’s recommended every 6K miles.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

benjaminh said:

@tifighter : That's good to hear. But my nearest service center is 116 miles away. So they'd send a van from there down to me if I owned a Tesla and needed it? And I read somewhere that even some of the service centers that exist might be closed—or has that plan been put on ice?

An attorney in my county bought a Tesla and the Cincinnati center promised they would pick up the car if it needed service. He then had a problem that rendered the car undriveable and the center said it was his responsibility to bring it to Cincy- their pickup/delivery policy had changed.

The old adage still applies, if a car dealer makes a promise, get it in writing. Otherwise, it’s not a promise.

tjc78

That reminds me, I bought the S60 in August and it has about 4700 miles. I haven’t had any service done yet. Considering it hasn’t moved in over month and only started twice I guess it’s fine. I remember them saying it was a 10k oil change interval and that three during the lease were covered.

What a waste of money that car is right now. My mom won’t drive it (too low) and her car is brand new too. I may let my aunt use it for a little while as her 2015’s Fit AC (only 24k miles) just crapped out.

We don’t need two cars at the campground especially with the golf cart and it’s a little too small to carry all the junk to the beach on weekends.

roadburner

Michaell said:

breld said:

@roadburner - this yellow makes the yellow on the Supra appear subtle.

Is this M4 up your alley?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/811173603/overview/

I think that may have been the car used at the BMW event I attended a couple of years ago. I never had the chance to drive it, as all the flat-brimmed bros were fighting for seat time.

That color is Phoenix Yellow; not one of my favorites. I prefer the brighter non-metallic Dakar Yellow.

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

That reminds me, I bought the S60 in August and it has about 4700 miles. I haven’t had any service done yet. Considering it hasn’t moved in over month and only started twice I guess it’s fine. I remember them saying it was a 10k oil change interval and that three during the lease were covered.

What a waste of money that car is right now. My mom won’t drive it (too low) and her car is brand new too. I may let my aunt use it for a little while as her 2015’s Fit AC (only 24k miles) just crapped out.

We don’t need two cars at the campground especially with the golf cart and it’s a little too small to carry all the junk to the beach on weekends.

I'd take it over, but there is NO WAY I'd even go near that light colored interior.

tjc78

If the lease was transferable it would probably be listed as we speak. I haven’t looked into getting any buyout quotes as the wife really doesn’t want to get rid of it saying we will eventually need two cars again and the Enclave is up in December.

tjc78

LMAO .. payoff amount on Volvo is $42118. I’m not sure how that’s possible as it’s higher than the cap cost on the lease!

Guess it’s staying in the stable for sure.

pensfan83

It's been discussed a few times whether we really need to replace the Acura in the fall. Neither of us know when or if we'll be back in the office before 2021 so between 4 cars we've maybe put a few hundred miles apiece on all of them over the past 3.5 months.

My brother borrowed the TLX for 2 weeks after he could finally turn in his Fusion but before he picked up his new car but even he only used it a handful of times.

Michaell

All this talk about extra vehicles makes me feel like I'm ahead of the curve, for once.

Hard to believe the Jetta went back 10 months ago.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

That reminds me, I bought the S60 in August and it has about 4700 miles. I haven’t had any service done yet. Considering it hasn’t moved in over month and only started twice I guess it’s fine. I remember them saying it was a 10k oil change interval and that three during the lease were covered.

What a waste of money that car is right now. My mom won’t drive it (too low) and her car is brand new too. I may let my aunt use it for a little while as her 2015’s Fit AC (only 24k miles) just crapped out.

We don’t need two cars at the campground especially with the golf cart and it’s a little too small to carry all the junk to the beach on weekends.

My Mustang’s oil change light comes on every July to celebrate my purchase. Last time I think I had driven it 1500 miles on full synthetic.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

LMAO .. payoff amount on Volvo is $42118. I’m not sure how that’s possible as it’s higher than the cap cost on the lease!

Guess it’s staying in the stable for sure.

How is that possible?

benjaminh

pensfan83 said:

It's been discussed a few times whether we really need to replace the Acura in the fall....

Most of you are more virtuous than I am. If anything I've been driving more during the pandemic, going to far flung parks and scenic spots, and just going out for joy rides to find winding twisty roads.




And it's kinda challenging here at CCBA to ask if you really "need" new car lol! I was hoping you might be a pioneer and be the first on the block with one of the all-new 2021 TLXs.

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

All this talk about extra vehicles makes me feel like I'm ahead of the curve, for once.

Hard to believe the Jetta went back 10 months ago.

You definitely made the right call with that.

andres3

tifighter said:

benjaminh said:

andres3 said:

Wow, the kinds of issues you'd expect in a Chrysler, but everyone excuses them because they are "cheap." Not so with Tesla, big $$$$.

Yeah. And from what I've been reading and watching Tesla service is often slow and sometimes mediocre. They don't have enough spare parts, they don't have enough technicians, they don't have enough service centers, and when your warranty ends it seems like you go even farther back to the back of a very long line waiting for anything. No thanks.

FWIW - completely not my experience having two of them. Service, which isn't needed much, has been good. I did have a 12V battery die on the X one evening last December (this happened to my Leaf as well) and they sent mobile service out with a new battery the next morning. I didn't need it sooner so that was fine for me, and I live about 40 miles from the service center. The tech used to work for a VW dealer and said it was night and day difference working there, but let's all admit that VW is a pretty low bar and move on. He did have an opinion on Audi's V8 efforts he brought up for some reason. He also did have a Cybertruck on order to replace his Ram truck, which seemed like a good sign.

I did get the reach out a few weeks ago to get my driving computer upgraded to the latest one on the X, so I took it in and they gave me a S loaner for a same day service. No charge and no issues. I'd buy another, but you all expect me to say that.

In the end, none of this matters if you don't like driving the car, so until you try one, the imagined downstream experience is secondary. And yes, I used to own an Acura and many Hondas, so I do have some context.

Anecdotal experiences seem to be all over the map though, and this is eerily reminiscent of the Big 3 in the 80's and 90's. Some get good ones, some get bad ones. Only something like CR can sort out whether it's a widespread consistent issue, as they love the cars, but have turned the recommendations on and off as reliability has been hit or miss? I haven't paid that close of attention, but just enough to know this has happened at least once with the "UN-recommending" of them. I wouldn't be surprised is they were recommended again.

graphicguy

benjaminh said:

pensfan83 said:

It's been discussed a few times whether we really need to replace the Acura in the fall....

Most of you are more virtuous than I am. If anything I've been driving more during the pandemic, going to far flung parks and scenic spots, and just going out for joy rides to find winding twisty roads.




And it's kinda challenging here at CCBA to ask if you really "need" new car lol! I was hoping you might be a pioneer and be the first on the block with one of the all-new 2021 TLXs.

Who says you can't be the first one in here with the '21 TLX? It's supposed to be out...when? October? November?

pensfan83

@benjaminh we may yet go with one. Or at least stay in the Honda/Acura family with a Passport or RDX and when the Tacoma goes back I'll probably kick the tires on a Type S.

We've also been getting out to more places, but usually only on the weekends. Yesterday we loaded the bikes up, tossed a cooler in the bed, and drove down to the Laurel Highlands for a day of bike riding on the Great Allegheny Passage trail. Sunny, 75 degrees, and flat out beautiful scenery.

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

LMAO .. payoff amount on Volvo is $42118. I’m not sure how that’s possible as it’s higher than the cap cost on the lease!

Guess it’s staying in the stable for sure.

how long have you had it? Cap cost doesn't include tax on the residual, so that is likely part of the reason, if they are giving you the buyout with tax.

benjaminh

Who says you can't be the first one in here with the '21 TLX? It's supposed to be out...when? October? November?


My guess is that the new TLX is going to be out in September. My lease isn't up until July 4th of 2021, and so even if Acura has a great pull-ahead program the earliest for me might be something like May of 2021? And although I'm planning to test drive the new TLX the larger size is a bit of a challenge, and my wife might also be lukewarm about the idea. I went to the Acura dealer the first time without telling my wife, and then once there sold her on it over the phone by saying it was a great deal on a safe car with adaptive cruise control. And it helped that we'd just gotten her dream car the month before. She still loves her CR-V. But I'm keeping an open mind and thinking about the base model in a white pearl and parchment color combo.

28firefighter

My wife and I have been discussing what our car situation looks like if she ends up full-time or near full-time WFH once things with COVID shake out. I suggested we'd likely let the i3 lease expire and not immediately replace it.