Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nyccarguy

@breld - I might have missed the details. What term did you lease for? 36/12K? What options/packages does it have?

These dealers do seem to all have some sort of playbook they try and stick to. I think it’s hysterical you have a dealer willing to “not charge” a dealer fee, but at the expense of a higher, non-negotiable selling price. While we all know that there was a shutdown of many factories (maybe all) for some period of time due to COVID, we also know that these dealers were choking on a lot of excess inventory at the end of February, beginning of March. Demand has gotten higher and supply has dwindled down. I’m sure (as is always the case), there is a high demand for some cars and not so much for others. If the supply of MINIs was that tight right now, BMW/Mini wouldn’t be putting that $2000 incentive on the hood (bonnet). Especially with fuel prices being so low, so is the demand for Fuel efficient cars. Demand for 2 door cars is low too (that’s strike 2 and @breld is pitching).

Like with @pensfan83 and his recent RDX. He said dealers are treating ASpec models like gold.

nyccarguy

I always find the sheer amount of leftovers on a lot incredible. The VW dealer here in Stamford has (3) 2019 GTI SE with 6-Speed sticks on their lot. They all have sticker prices in the $33 - $34K range. The Genesis dealer has (10) 2019 G70 on the lot. How much longer are they going to hold on to these cars?

tjc78

I'd bet those 2019's don't have lease support any longer, which isn't helping to move them.

28firefighter

The lease support wasn’t that good when it was at its best.

tjc78

Yep, pretty dismal. The other lux brands were a much better deal. I know my Volvo was.

stickguy

surprised that Genesis dealer hasn't just put those into loaner service then sell off as a CPO. VW, can't do that. So either send them off to auction, or have one heck of a blowout sale? It's about to be 2 MY old, and a generation out of date. So what would it take? 30% off? At $25K with the full 6 year warranty, might be tempting.

breld

nyccarguy said:

@breld - I might have missed the details. What term did you lease for? 36/12K? What options/packages does it have?

I hadn’t posted the details of the deal. I think it was a solid deal but nothing to write home about.

It’s a 2020 Hardtop S 2 door. It has the Signature package which is their mid-level trim.

MSRP of $31,750. They knocked off about $3,250, which includes a $2k incentive.

Nothing down other than first month’s payment, $340/month for 3/36.

breld

I will say the cap cost of around $28k made it a no brainer compared to what 2-3 year old used ones are going for.

nyccarguy

breld said:

nyccarguy said:

@breld - I might have missed the details. What term did you lease for? 36/12K? What options/packages does it have?

I hadn’t posted the details of the deal. I think it was a solid deal but nothing to write home about.

It’s a 2020 Hardtop S 2 door. It has the Signature package which is their mid-level trim.

MSRP of $31,750. They knocked off about $3,250, which includes a $2k incentive.

Nothing down other than first month’s payment, $340/month for 3/36.

Oh. Cool. It’s better that she likes the car more than the fact that if it was aN incredible deal or not. It’s a cool car in a great color! Enjoy!

qbrozen

breld said:

I will say the cap cost of around $28k made it a no brainer compared to what 2-3 year old used ones are going for.

In that case, will you have equity in the end? (As if you’ll make it to the end)

Is the Benz gone yet?

qbrozen

So, follow-up on the Charger spark plugs. It took me exactly 15 mins from popping my hood to having all 8 plugs from one side out. Another 15 to get 8 new ones gapped and coated with anti-seize, and 15 to put them back, torque them, and reinstall the coils. Other side was the same deal. So 1.5 hrs and $50 vs the $700 shop quote. Wow.

And I finally perused the bill today. Where he really screwed me was the ridiculous analysis charges. 1 hr each to assess the overheating issue, suspension noise, and CEL readout. So almost $450 just to look at the car. Then 1 hr to uninstall and reinstall an ABS sensor, 1.5 hrs to replace a thermostat, 1.5 hrs to replace 2 shock bolts, and on and on. It was over $2k in labor. About 15 hrs. Ain’t no way in hell they spent 15 hrs on my car for the little bit it needed. Oh well. Live and learn. Back to my old way of doing it all myself.

akangl

corvette said:

It's nice! I'm not sure I could deal with parking the crew cab + 8' bed. The couple feet of extra length on my Tundra compared to the Tahoe it replaced already makes it feel way less maneuverable. The Tahoe was svelte by comparison! Yes, it was really wide, but it could get into a parking space easier due to its shorter wheelbase and length.

Hubby loves it, he can park it like a compact car. I don't drive it since right now just getting into it is a chore with my knee being the way it is from the accident. He is grumbling about being stuck with a 2016 Focus as a commuter though......we bought the oldest kid's car. (does that count as another punch?)

Sandman6472

Breld, did it come with Sirius/XM radio? The ones here in South Florida don't seem to have it included like most other vehicles, only the prep package, whatever that is. This is for the 2020 and earlier models. Not sure if the 2021 models have it though as they only have a couple according to their website. Also, does it have 15" alloys or 16" ones?
I do plan to take a test drive but want to wait till the 2021 models are in since I've waited this long. Also, my wife thinks there way too small for me to drive but they're only 151" compared to my Golf, 168". But, that model could definitley work for me as it's basically only for around town driving and the occasional drive up to Orlando.
That indie mechanic I took it to said that at he mileage mine has, 64,350 or so, they become "problematic", something I didn't want to hear. Still on the fence about fixing the axle boot and keeping it which is why I'm waiting a bit. He said it wasn't critical and could be done in a few months. And if I fix that, what and when will the next "problem" crop up? It's this unknown which bothers me as I hate drama with any vehicle we have. Even though it does have tires I put on 11 months ago, when does one just say, "enough"? Just want something that puts that big grin on my face again, whatever that may be. So, right now, I'm in a paralysis mode which I truly hate. Truly have no clue what to do next!!!

ab348

Sandy, if you worry about your Golf being problematic, I don't think you want to go anywhere near a Mini.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

breld said:

Punch for the wife.

And some couples just play golf.

I was watching an episode of Motor Week this morning and the were reviewing a MB 63 s AMG GT (hope I got that right). It had the expected super performance characteristics for a $162k vehicle but the thing I noticed was the paint.

Mercedes decided to give it a matte paint job which made it look like something done in a friend’s garage with a roller. The question is why? Are young faddish hipsters the market demographic?

I can’t imagine that will age well.

I don’t get the matte paint schemes either. I think they’re faddish, too.....kinda like the chrome wraps that seemed to be everywhere 4-5 years ago. Now, I don’t see any.

Even more confounding given it’s on a high buck car.

graphicguy

@breld......way to go. Nice car....great deal. Congrats on the punch for the wife.

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

I will say the cap cost of around $28k made it a no brainer compared to what 2-3 year old used ones are going for.

In that case, will you have equity in the end? (As if you’ll make it to the end)

Is the Benz gone yet?

Well, I don’t know about having equity at the end, but the premium of this deal over, let’s say, a 2017 used or CPO model was well worth it to have the new one in color of choice, etc.

The Benz? Not gone yet, but we’ll see how that goes.

breld

@Sandman6472 - you’re right about Sirius being scarce on these MINIs. They tend to package things weird - while it is a standalone option, it seems most of the ones available did not have it unless they were the fully loaded “iconic” package.

So...no, my wife’s does not have it. Nor does it have Apple CarPlay. The few with the Iconic package were around $5k more. So my wife ordered a $7 phone mount for the dash so she can use her maps and stream Sirius through her iPhone.

I think you’d really appreciate something like a Countryman or Clubman. It seems like it’d be a nice size for you and still be a lot of fun. This current gen of MINIs are a giant leap forward in refinement and feel over the previous gen. Some may prefer the rawness of that previous gen (I get that too), but as a daily driver, these newer MINIs don’t really sacrifice much of anything compared to other brands.

breld

ab348 said:

Sandy, if you worry about your Golf being problematic, I don't think you want to go anywhere near a Mini.

I don’t know - I can’t say we’ve had a long-term relationship with our MINIs, but we’ve had a couple that were purchased with higher miles and we had no issues that were unexpected or unusual.

I wouldn’t expect it to be as pain free as a Corolla, but seems in line with most other brands.

But to your point, if Sandy or another buyer likes the MINI and a Corolla hatch equally, yeah, go with the Toyota.

28firefighter

My Dad's new-to-him 2007 BMW 530xi Touring 6MT arrived at home this weekend. He said it is even better than described and shown in photos. It will go in this week to get the few things addressed that we identified during the PPI and also to get its state inspection done.

Seems like I did good this go around...

Sandman6472

Leasing might just be the answer then. My mileage/year has finally gone down from that ridiculous 13K/year, will be lucky if I even do 5K since I no longer drive far. Leasing would also keep me always under warranty as I just don't want any drama. We've just never had the opportunity to even think about it until now.
But yes, problematic is not where I want to go so probably best to stay with something like a Toyota or Hyundai. Get the high mileage and the reliability so there will be no drama. And still get my XM though I'd be willing to give up a sun/moon roof going forward. Really leaves a few to look at.

ronsteve

I don't see anything on the Carfax, so what would possibly be wrong with this one to get to that price?!
https://www.bigmchevy.com/used-Radcliff-2017-INFINITI-QX50-Base-JN1BJ0RR9HM407961

And no, I haven't actually looked at one to see if the cargo footprint will work for me. Yet.

28firefighter

ronsteve said:

I don't see anything on the Carfax, so what would possibly be wrong with this one to get to that price?!
https://www.bigmchevy.com/used-Radcliff-2017-INFINITI-QX50-Base-JN1BJ0RR9HM407961

And no, I haven't actually looked at one to see if the cargo footprint will work for me. Yet.

I think you vastly overestimate the desirability of these cars. If the space works for you and you don't mine the somewhat antiquated tech in it (this doesn't even have Nav and therefore makes it even older), they are great values and a hoot to drive. My friend's G37x has the same interior layout and is 7 years older...

roadburner

qbrozen said:

And I finally perused the bill today. Where he really screwed me was the ridiculous analysis charges. 1 hr each to assess the overheating issue, suspension noise, and CEL readout. So almost $450 just to look at the car. Then 1 hr to uninstall and reinstall an ABS sensor, 1.5 hrs to replace a thermostat, 1.5 hrs to replace 2 shock bolts, and on and on. It was over $2k in labor. About 15 hrs. Ain’t no way in hell they spent 15 hrs on my car for the little bit it needed. Oh well. Live and learn. Back to my old way of doing it all myself.

There is no telling how much the poor sods who know nothing about cars get reamed when they nonchalantly bring their car to "the Guy."

28firefighter

@qbrozen they hit you for an hour of diagnosis for each task PLUS the labor (taking the same amount of time) to repair? That seems...unnecessary. I could understand the analysis fees if they were not obvious issues and took significant time to understand, but these seem pretty straight forward...

Sorry you had such a crummy and ridiculously expensive experience.

roadburner

breld said:

I don’t know - I can’t say we’ve had a long-term relationship with our MINIs, but we’ve had a couple that were purchased with higher miles and we had no issues that were unexpected or unusual.

I wouldn’t expect it to be as pain free as a Corolla, but seems in line with most other brands.

But to your point, if Sandy or another buyer likes the MINI and a Corolla hatch equally, yeah, go with the Toyota.

The newer Minis with the BMW modular 3 and 4 cylinder engines are very reliable. The older ones can be problematic if you don't do your homework before buying one. My problem with the Corolla is that it would be a very unsafe car for me to own- as every time I slipped behind the wheel I would risk dying of boredom...

graphicguy

28firefighter said:

ronsteve said:

I don't see anything on the Carfax, so what would possibly be wrong with this one to get to that price?!
https://www.bigmchevy.com/used-Radcliff-2017-INFINITI-QX50-Base-JN1BJ0RR9HM407961

And no, I haven't actually looked at one to see if the cargo footprint will work for me. Yet.

I think you vastly overestimate the desirability of these cars. If the space works for you and you don't mine the somewhat antiquated tech in it (this doesn't even have Nav and therefore makes it even older), they are great values and a hoot to drive. My friend's G37x has the same interior layout and is 7 years older...

I can't for the life of me understand how Infiniti could "whiff" so badly on their current lineup of vehicles, when the previous generation was so good.

breld

graphicguy said:

28firefighter said:

ronsteve said:

I don't see anything on the Carfax, so what would possibly be wrong with this one to get to that price?!
https://www.bigmchevy.com/used-Radcliff-2017-INFINITI-QX50-Base-JN1BJ0RR9HM407961

And no, I haven't actually looked at one to see if the cargo footprint will work for me. Yet.

I think you vastly overestimate the desirability of these cars. If the space works for you and you don't mine the somewhat antiquated tech in it (this doesn't even have Nav and therefore makes it even older), they are great values and a hoot to drive. My friend's G37x has the same interior layout and is 7 years older...

I can't for the life of me understand how Infiniti could "whiff" so badly on their current lineup of vehicles, when the previous generation was so good.

Agreed. I sometimes wonder how they're still in business.

ronsteve

28firefighter said:

ronsteve said:

I don't see anything on the Carfax, so what would possibly be wrong with this one to get to that price?!
https://www.bigmchevy.com/used-Radcliff-2017-INFINITI-QX50-Base-JN1BJ0RR9HM407961

And no, I haven't actually looked at one to see if the cargo footprint will work for me. Yet.

I think you vastly overestimate the desirability of these cars. If the space works for you and you don't mine the somewhat antiquated tech in it (this doesn't even have Nav and therefore makes it even older), they are great values and a hoot to drive. My friend's G37x has the same interior layout and is 7 years older...

Good eye on the lack of Nav... now I see why it's so much less than the comps (including another copy at the same dealer, with 28K vs 36K, priced at $25K).

Honestly I am one that doesn't mind the relative lack of tech (whether I'd go all the way back to non-Nav, I'm not sure). Still vaguely looking, and there is a decent looking Regal TourX at another local dealer, but the wanderlust in general isn't burning as hot lately.

roadburner

breld said:

graphicguy said:

28firefighter said:

ronsteve said:

I don't see anything on the Carfax, so what would possibly be wrong with this one to get to that price?!
https://www.bigmchevy.com/used-Radcliff-2017-INFINITI-QX50-Base-JN1BJ0RR9HM407961

And no, I haven't actually looked at one to see if the cargo footprint will work for me. Yet.

I think you vastly overestimate the desirability of these cars. If the space works for you and you don't mine the somewhat antiquated tech in it (this doesn't even have Nav and therefore makes it even older), they are great values and a hoot to drive. My friend's G37x has the same interior layout and is 7 years older...

I can't for the life of me understand how Infiniti could "whiff" so badly on their current lineup of vehicles, when the previous generation was so good.

Agreed. I sometimes wonder how they're still in business.

They may not be in business much longer; I keep hearing Nissan is in serious financial trouble. The ONLY new Nissans that I'd consider owning are the 370Z and the Frontier. You'd have to threaten me with an excruciatingly painful death to make me even think about buying a new Infiniti- and even then I might find the dirt nap a more palatable alternative.

stickguy

Sandy, I think you would do well with a corolla hatch at this point. Should hit you’re sweet spot. And probably should just buy it. I have a feeling you might have too much lease angst.

roadburner

Okay- silly question for this topic...
My son's boss has a 2017 RAV4 and is thinking about getting a Toyota Platinum warranty to extend the warranty out to 113,000 miles and seven years. He was quoted $5,000- which I think is very high. I think that's what we charged to CPO an M5. Can he shop other Toyota dealers for the warranty and is the price negotiable?

28firefighter

Holy moly - $5000 for any Toyota extended warranty is insane. Is it a hybrid or something?

stickguy

That’s nuts. It’s not a Range Rover. Hard pass.

I assume Toyota is like other brands, you can get the policy at any dealer. Try a brand specific forum. Usually a dealer (or salesperson) on there selling them at a discount.

roadburner

Nope, just a garden variety RAV4. I did some more research; in 2016 Toyota shut down internet, phone, and any other out-of-state sales of their extended warranties in order to protect the dealers who are screwing over their customers by selling those warranties at grossly inflated prices.
Nice.

mjfloyd1

Call Troy at fd-warranty.com. I’ve used him for Audi and fidelity warranties H sells Toyota and Lexus factory warranty too.

corvette

ronsteve said:

I don't see anything on the Carfax, so what would possibly be wrong with this one to get to that price?!
https://www.bigmchevy.com/used-Radcliff-2017-INFINITI-QX50-Base-JN1BJ0RR9HM407961

And no, I haven't actually looked at one to see if the cargo footprint will work for me. Yet.

One note, if it doesn't have nav, it won't have Bluetooth audio streaming, just a USB port. If you use your phone for both music/podcasts and Waze, the USB port does not put out enough power to keep the battery at 100%, and it will slowly discharge as you drive. I've never had my iPhone 6s go dead, but I could see that happening with some of the newer phones with larger screens. With Bluetooth audio streaming, you have the option of using a more powerful charger in the 12v outlet while using BT to stream.

I'm not sure if the sunroof drains are a problem on the QX50--if they are, I'd hope they were fixed by 2017? Check for wet floorboards in the front.

28firefighter

So, at the risk of asking a stupid question @roadburner... if this is a garden variety RAV4, why does it need an extended warranty? Has it been problematic?

corvette

roadburner said:

I think that's what we charged to CPO an M5.

Did BMW change their position on that? I thought that, during the 1990s, a lot of dealers would buy a customer’s lease return, CPO it, and sell it back to the same customer, or offer to CPO any of their used inventory upon payment of an appropriate premium. I thought BMW nixed that and told the dealers they needed to decide whether or not to CPO a car at the time they took it into inventory.

roadburner

28firefighter said:

So, at the risk of asking a stupid question @roadburner... if this is a garden variety RAV4, why does it need an extended warranty? Has it been problematic?

My son said he knows next to nothing about cars and I’m thinking that the dealer gave him the full court press about how he needs it to avoid expensive repairs.

28firefighter

Find a good indy shop (not @qbrozen's) and put $5k in the bank. Odds are they won't come close to touching it.

graphicguy

28firefighter said:

Holy moly - $5000 for any Toyota extended warranty is insane. Is it a hybrid or something?

Yeah...that would be a hard pass for me, too.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

28firefighter said:

So, at the risk of asking a stupid question @roadburner... if this is a garden variety RAV4, why does it need an extended warranty? Has it been problematic?

My son said he knows next to nothing about cars and I’m thinking that the dealer gave him the full court press about how he needs it to avoid expensive repairs.

Toyotas are purposely made for people who don’t know much about car maintenance or repairs.

Just do the service that’s called for on their maintenance schedule, and all should be well for at least 125K miles.

roadburner

corvette said:

Did BMW change their position on that? I thought that, during the 1990s, a lot of dealers would buy a customer’s lease return, CPO it, and sell it back to the same customer, or offer to CPO any of their used inventory upon payment of an appropriate premium. I thought BMW nixed that and told the dealers they needed to decide whether or not to CPO a car at the time they took it into inventory.

All I know is that we could CPO anything that qualified. That’s what they did when I bought the X1.
I remember we took a 335i in trade with nearly new Michelin summer rubber. It had been previously sold as a CPO by another dealer, and it still had a year of CPO coverage, but we couldn’t advertise it as CPO because it didn’t have RFTs like came on the car originally.

suydam

I still think at this point in his life he might prefer something with higher seating. I really love my Volt but getting in and out of the Encore is much nicer! And I don’t have back issues.

stickguy said:

Sandy, I think you would do well with a corolla hatch at this point. Should hit you’re sweet spot. And probably should just buy it. I have a feeling you might have too much lease angst.

stickguy

oh, I agree about the higher seating being a plus. But from what Sandy keeps getting attracted to, the Corolla seems like a good choice. Something slightly higher like a Seltos or Kona though would IMO be more comfortable to get in and out of.

I actually notice a big difference after driving the RDX when I get into my TLX. It is low!

breld

You should try getting in and out of the Supra. My wife whacks her head each time.

stickguy

roadburner said:

corvette said:

Did BMW change their position on that? I thought that, during the 1990s, a lot of dealers would buy a customer’s lease return, CPO it, and sell it back to the same customer, or offer to CPO any of their used inventory upon payment of an appropriate premium. I thought BMW nixed that and told the dealers they needed to decide whether or not to CPO a car at the time they took it into inventory.

All I know is that we could CPO anything that qualified. That’s what they did when I bought the X1.
I remember we took a 335i in trade with nearly new Michelin summer rubber. It had been previously sold as a CPO by another dealer, and it still had a year of CPO coverage, but we couldn’t advertise it as CPO because it didn’t have RFTs like came on the car originally.

question on that. Once a car is sold as CPO, that stays with the car? So if I bought a resale that was sold last year CPO, so still qualified by time/miles, do I just go to BMW (or whatever the brand is) and switch it over? Or would the service department see that when they pulled up the VIN?

just asking because I have seen some where it is noted as CPO on the carfax, even though not at the same brand dealer.

qbrozen

breld said:

You should try getting in and out of the Supra. My wife whacks her head each time.

So how much did you list it for?

;b

qbrozen

Man, motorbike shopping is hard. Now maybe I understand a bit better when people who know nothing about cars start their research. And those are far far more complicated and varied.