Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

28firefighter

If this is in even fair condition it’s worth at least the asking price. Sport pack, xenons, 6MT.

https://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/d/puyallup-2008-bmw-328xi-touring-6spd/7191629870.html

stickguy

a tan interior and RWD, and would be perfect!

Michaell

roadburner said:

I'd flip the GLC- you probably won't want another M-B for a few decades or so.

Do remember this is the second GLC they've owned - only difference is that the current one is the "coupe"

sb55

stickguy said:

what exactly are the islands?

I figured that southern part like Bennington won't be much different than Albany weather. But I have been wrong before.

The Lake Champlain Islands just north of Burlington. The town of South Hero (where I live) and the town of Grand Isle are on the largest, most southern one. There's a car causeway to drive to the mainland. I think that you were on the old rail trail causeway with your bikes. I can get to Burlington in 20 minutes. I live 100' above sea level.

qbrozen

breld said:

qbrozen said:

breld said:

Then of course there’s this option...

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/806040721/overview/

I’m a sucker for that blue-gray color (hence my attraction to that LR Discovery too).

I actually saw a Cayenne just like this one in my neighborhood the other day and I was so struck by it. Then I see this one come up used locally. It’s fate, no?

What's this for? To swap for the wife's Benz? Not sure you have anything in your fleet right now I'd give up for a base model Cayenne.

It’d be an answer to consolidate the Volvo and GLC and go back to 3 cars (for the 3 car garage).

Another obvious path to that is simply to sell one or the other, but what’s the fun of that?

The V90 and GLC are certainly nice, but what makes you say they wouldn’t be worth swapping for a base Cayenne? Now that it has the turbo 6 in it, it certainly seemed appealing.

I was not aware they upgraded the base engine.

How would you go about getting out of the volvo? Has to be sold/traded and I would imagine you are WAY upside-down, yes? If you want to reduce a car, just sell one. Or stop adding to the fleet. Lol. Maybe she didn’t need another Mini after all?

ab348

qbrozen said:

How would you go about getting out of the volvo? Has to be sold/traded and I would imagine you are WAY upside-down, yes? If you want to reduce a car, just sell one. Or stop adding to the fleet. Lol. Maybe she didn’t need another Mini after all?

Says the guy with 5 vehicles in his signature line who just bought a motorcycle. :laughing:

stickguy

Speaking of which, hows the ML63 doing? Haven’t heard too much about that.

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

qbrozen said:

breld said:

Then of course there’s this option...

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/806040721/overview/

I’m a sucker for that blue-gray color (hence my attraction to that LR Discovery too).

I actually saw a Cayenne just like this one in my neighborhood the other day and I was so struck by it. Then I see this one come up used locally. It’s fate, no?

What's this for? To swap for the wife's Benz? Not sure you have anything in your fleet right now I'd give up for a base model Cayenne.

It’d be an answer to consolidate the Volvo and GLC and go back to 3 cars (for the 3 car garage).

Another obvious path to that is simply to sell one or the other, but what’s the fun of that?

The V90 and GLC are certainly nice, but what makes you say they wouldn’t be worth swapping for a base Cayenne? Now that it has the turbo 6 in it, it certainly seemed appealing.

I was not aware they upgraded the base engine.

How would you go about getting out of the volvo? Has to be sold/traded and I would imagine you are WAY upside-down, yes? If you want to reduce a car, just sell one. Or stop adding to the fleet. Lol. Maybe she didn’t need another Mini after all?

All fair points of course. We are considering the option of just getting rid of one of the vehicles. The Volvo is actually not all that bad - probably around $2k negative on the lease at this point.

And c’mon, how many of our choices are based on “need?”

breld

And yeah, on the Cayenne, they put the engine from the Q7/Q8 (and S4 and S5 for that matter) into the base model. Along with that it also has the same 8-speed trannie versus a PDK. So...a lot of Audi in that Porsche. But to be fair, a comparable used Q7 is not much less, and a Q8 is definitely higher.

corvette

Carvana just offered me $11,920 for the G37. I think the previous offer was in the high $10s. Given that I paid $14,000 for it out the door two years and over 10,000 miles ago, it's difficult to refuse.

Vroom was at $9,938 and Carmax at $9,000.

I'm thinking I can either get something else as a road trip car once the market gets back to normal, or maybe get a project car. Any thoughts?

sda

Used car prices have really popped. On cars typically priced around 20k they’re now 22k. Selection is limited too. I was searching the internet for late model Accord EXL or higher, Mazda6 Grand Touring Reserve, Audi4 Premium, Acura TLX tech, not many to choose from and priced too high.

corvette

I last updated its value in Quicken in December 2019--Edmunds had pegged the trade-in value at around $7,000 at that point, so it has almost doubled in value since then.

kyfdx

I vote for dumping that Infiniti!

28firefighter

I'd dump the Infiniti. You'll never get close to that amount after life returns to normal.

ab348

If it is not a primary vehicle for you, @corvette, I would be tempted to take the money and run. It seems like a strong offer.

stickguy

I wonder when prices and supply, new and used, do stabilize (if not crash)? The January/February doldrums? Only risk of going down to one car, if I see the need to go back to 2 before the bubble bursts!

qbrozen

ab348 said:

qbrozen said:

How would you go about getting out of the volvo? Has to be sold/traded and I would imagine you are WAY upside-down, yes? If you want to reduce a car, just sell one. Or stop adding to the fleet. Lol. Maybe she didn’t need another Mini after all?

Says the guy with 5 vehicles in his signature line who just bought a motorcycle. :laughing:

BUT, I'm not the one looking to downsize. Plus, I don't typically lose money on my deals. lol.

tifighter

breld said:

And c’mon, how many of our choices are based on “need?”

Yeah, I thought maybe I stumbled onto a Consumer Reports forum or something.

qbrozen

breld said:

All fair points of course. We are considering the option of just getting rid of one of the vehicles. The Volvo is actually not all that bad - probably around $2k negative on the lease at this point.

And c’mon, how many of our choices are based on “need?”

You really need to consider renting/turo'ing vehicles. Buying/leasing and then selling has to be costing you far more than if you just borrowed them. Of course, I'm not against swapping. I do it, obviously. But if I did it every other month, I'd find another way. UNLESS I was actually making a profit every time.

Anyway, you know 3 vehicles is not going to cut it for you. That will last a couple of weeks, at best.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

Carvana just offered me $11,920 for the G37. I think the previous offer was in the high $10s. Given that I paid $14,000 for it out the door two years and over 10,000 miles ago, it's difficult to refuse.

Vroom was at $9,938 and Carmax at $9,000.

I'm thinking I can either get something else as a road trip car once the market gets back to normal, or maybe get a project car. Any thoughts?

Definitely wait to buy a replacement as you’ll just be swapping one high priced car for another.

On the project, I like that idea. Do you have the mechanical skills, time and most of all the money to finish it?

corvette

oldfarmer50 said:

corvette said:

Carvana just offered me $11,920 for the G37. I think the previous offer was in the high $10s. Given that I paid $14,000 for it out the door two years and over 10,000 miles ago, it's difficult to refuse.

Vroom was at $9,938 and Carmax at $9,000.

I'm thinking I can either get something else as a road trip car once the market gets back to normal, or maybe get a project car. Any thoughts?

Definitely wait to buy a replacement as you’ll just be swapping one high priced car for another.

On the project, I like that idea. Do you have the mechanical skills, time and most of all the money to finish it?

The Tundra lease isn't up until February, 2022 (and US Bank may offer a six month extension), so I shouldn't have to do anything before then.

When I said project, I meant more like a small project or tinkering--sort of like how I would classify a lot of what Big Al does on his YouTube channel. Buy something decent-ish, clean it up and fix some minor problems, maybe drive it around for a while, and resell it.

stickguy

This would be a better time for me to have something like the integra I had a few years ago, and paid $2,700 for. Didn’t put any money into it even though it had high miles, but also put hardly any miles on it.

I was estimating that I haven’t put 3,500 miles total on both cars in the last 6 months. And nearly a thousand of it was our recent trip to Vermont. Only about 1,000 maybe on the TLX (hence the logic of exiting the lease early).

Won’t really need a 2nd car, but perfect time to keep an eye out for a little toy to buy for cash and sell off at some point if I need something fancier. Just something for running out to do errands if the wife is taking her car.

breld

qbrozen said:

ab348 said:

qbrozen said:

How would you go about getting out of the volvo? Has to be sold/traded and I would imagine you are WAY upside-down, yes? If you want to reduce a car, just sell one. Or stop adding to the fleet. Lol. Maybe she didn’t need another Mini after all?

Says the guy with 5 vehicles in his signature line who just bought a motorcycle. :laughing:

BUT, I'm not the one looking to downsize. Plus, I don't typically lose money on my deals. lol.

Your cars don't depreciate?

xwesx

stickguy said:

Speaking of which, hows the ML63 doing? Haven’t heard too much about that.

That means it is doing well. With Q, hearing about it means problems.

xwesx

corvette said:

Carvana just offered me $11,920 for the G37. I think the previous offer was in the high $10s. Given that I paid $14,000 for it out the door two years and over 10,000 miles ago, it's difficult to refuse.

Vroom was at $9,938 and Carmax at $9,000.

I'm thinking I can either get something else as a road trip car once the market gets back to normal, or maybe get a project car. Any thoughts?

Yes. Get rid of it now, count your blessings (and $), and just chill until you need to start thinking about a spare car again.

qbrozen

breld said:

qbrozen said:

ab348 said:

qbrozen said:

How would you go about getting out of the volvo? Has to be sold/traded and I would imagine you are WAY upside-down, yes? If you want to reduce a car, just sell one. Or stop adding to the fleet. Lol. Maybe she didn’t need another Mini after all?

Says the guy with 5 vehicles in his signature line who just bought a motorcycle. :laughing:

BUT, I'm not the one looking to downsize. Plus, I don't typically lose money on my deals. lol.

Your cars don't depreciate?

Apparently not. Made money on the Hyundai, and the Stelvio sold for the buyout ($0 DAS when I took delivery). To be fair, the BMW lease swap cost nothing because I put nothing down and someone took over the payments. My beaters come and go. Some cost a few bucks, some don't. But if it costs me, oh, let's say $500 to own and drive for 9 mos, I don't consider that a loss. Even the leases that swap even aren't losses because you are renting them. If you have to pay money to get out of them, or you lose a down payment in the process, then it was more than the monthly cost. That's why we haven't swapped out the X2. We put money up front, so even having someone take over the lease winds up a loser deal above and beyond the monthly. Don't want to do that.

Of course, do what you want with your money. I'm not trying to stop you. But, from an outside (and not fully informed) perspective, it seems to cost you thousands to keep swapping every 2 mos or so. Is that not a fair assessment? I think there could be less expensive ways.

take Turo, for example. Looking real quick around me, I see a 2019 Wrangler for $39/day. So I could rent that for 2 weeks for $546, which is less than the dealer and DMV fees alone if I buy and sell.

Another example is leasing. But you have to obviously go with companies that allow transfers, and you have to get a good deal with no more than first month out of pocket.

Or look at @corvette 's example. A relatively inexpensive but fun and nice car that he got to own and drive for 2 years for $2k.

qbrozen

xwesx said:

stickguy said:

Speaking of which, hows the ML63 doing? Haven’t heard too much about that.

That means it is doing well. With Q, hearing about it means problems.

yeah, it sits there A LOT. lol. Really really nice truck. But registering it has been a challenge I have yet to overcome. Thankfully, no cops in my town. haha.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

breld said:

All fair points of course. We are considering the option of just getting rid of one of the vehicles. The Volvo is actually not all that bad - probably around $2k negative on the lease at this point.

And c’mon, how many of our choices are based on “need?”

You really need to consider renting/turo'ing vehicles. Buying/leasing and then selling has to be costing you far more than if you just borrowed them. Of course, I'm not against swapping. I do it, obviously. But if I did it every other month, I'd find another way. UNLESS I was actually making a profit every time.

Anyway, you know 3 vehicles is not going to cut it for you. That will last a couple of weeks, at best.

That’s actually an excellent idea since he rotates so frequently. Just watch some Superspeeder Rob videos to see the down side.

This might be a nice project.

https://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/cto/d/clearwater-1960-chrysler-new-yorker-obo/7192094219.html

stickguy

Or, just build a hoovie sized garage, and keep collecting.

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

qbrozen said:

ab348 said:

qbrozen said:

How would you go about getting out of the volvo? Has to be sold/traded and I would imagine you are WAY upside-down, yes? If you want to reduce a car, just sell one. Or stop adding to the fleet. Lol. Maybe she didn’t need another Mini after all?

Says the guy with 5 vehicles in his signature line who just bought a motorcycle. :laughing:

BUT, I'm not the one looking to downsize. Plus, I don't typically lose money on my deals. lol.

Your cars don't depreciate?

Apparently not. Made money on the Hyundai, and the Stelvio sold for the buyout ($0 DAS when I took delivery). To be fair, the BMW lease swap cost nothing because I put nothing down and someone took over the payments. My beaters come and go. Some cost a few bucks, some don't. But if it costs me, oh, let's say $500 to own and drive for 9 mos, I don't consider that a loss. Even the leases that swap even aren't losses because you are renting them. If you have to pay money to get out of them, or you lose a down payment in the process, then it was more than the monthly cost. That's why we haven't swapped out the X2. We put money up front, so even having someone take over the lease winds up a loser deal above and beyond the monthly. Don't want to do that.

Of course, do what you want with your money. I'm not trying to stop you. But, from an outside (and not fully informed) perspective, it seems to cost you thousands to keep swapping every 2 mos or so. Is that not a fair assessment? I think there could be less expensive ways.

take Turo, for example. Looking real quick around me, I see a 2019 Wrangler for $39/day. So I could rent that for 2 weeks for $546, which is less than the dealer and DMV fees alone if I buy and sell.

Another example is leasing. But you have to obviously go with companies that allow transfers, and you have to get a good deal with no more than first month out of pocket.

Or look at @corvette 's example. A relatively inexpensive but fun and nice car that he got to own and drive for 2 years for $2k.

So you're saying the monthly payment on a lease doesn't count? I mean, depreciation is exactly what that payment represents (plus interest). If you're able to sell it at any given time prior to the end of the lease term for the buyout or better, it just means you basically overpaid in previous monthly payments, and you're savvy enough to recover it (most people aren't, so that's most definitely a credit to you). The best lease deal would be if the car is worth less than the buyout at the end of the term - you get to turn the car in and you paid out less than the actual depreciation. But a lot of folks get excited when they have equity at the end of a lease - just means you paid more along the way.

No doubt you make really smart choices with your car purchases and I don't disagree with most of what you're saying. Is this car swapping I do expensive? Absolutely. It's extremely indulgent and made worse by the fact that I have a spouse who likes to indulge too. Is it one of our goals to hold onto cars longer and do better in that regard? Yes. Have we been successful with that goal? Not so far!

pensfan83

The owner of the upholstery shop where the ZHP currently sits has an E36 M3, E46 330i xdrive, E34 5 Series Touring (manual), and an '01 740i. Also has a restored '87 Dodge Ram he's currently DD'ing instead of the E46.

qbrozen

breld said:

So you're saying the monthly payment on a lease doesn't count? I mean, depreciation is exactly what that payment represents (plus interest).

Big difference here is that you are swapping out early vs riding out to lease end where the depreciation curve has become less steep. You might have 45% residual after 3 yrs but that breaks down to more like 30% depreciation in yr 1, 15% in yr 2, and 10% in yr 3 (just throwing out random numbers here to illustrate the point). So if you manage to pay just 18% of the depreciation in the first year and walk away, you did well, IMHO.

The person who takes it over isn’t doing so hot because now they are paying 36% for what amounts to 25% of real-world depreciation. But maybe they only need 2 yrs, or they aren’t good negotiators, and it makes sense for them.

It is not that the lease payment doesn’t count, just that it is cost effective. Break each car cost down to a monthly and see where you land. I mean, for example, if the V90 breaks down to $1k/mo, ya done hurt yourself. Know what I mean?

suydam

@breld — we all love living vicariously through your car swaps, but some of us are getting a little worried about you. If you really want to change cars every few months, why not keep 1 or 2 as long termers — of you, that means a year — and rent a new ride every couple of months for fun?

breld

qbrozen said:

breld said:

So you're saying the monthly payment on a lease doesn't count? I mean, depreciation is exactly what that payment represents (plus interest).

Big difference here is that you are swapping out early vs riding out to lease end where the depreciation curve has become less steep. You might have 45% residual after 3 yrs but that breaks down to more like 30% depreciation in yr 1, 15% in yr 2, and 10% in yr 3 (just throwing out random numbers here to illustrate the point). So if you manage to pay just 18% of the depreciation in the first year and walk away, you did well, IMHO.

The person who takes it over isn’t doing so hot because now they are paying 36% for what amounts to 25% of real-world depreciation. But maybe they only need 2 yrs, or they aren’t good negotiators, and it makes sense for them.

It is not that the lease payment doesn’t count, just that it is cost effective. Break each car cost down to a monthly and see where you land. I mean, for example, if the V90 breaks down to $1k/mo, ya done hurt yourself. Know what I mean?

So you're saying since the lease payment is straight-lined, but the real depreciation is clearly more weighted toward the front end, then you're doing well if you're able to get out of it early with no cost beyond your monthly payments. Hmm...interesting and valid point.

And yes, I do break down each and every one of my cars and calculate the monthly depreciation, as in my book that's the real cost measure of the ownership (other than normal running costs like gas, insurance, etc.), as opposed to any monthly payment on its own. And yes, it's normally not pretty...but at least I'm self aware!

breld

suydam said:

@breld — we all love living vicariously through your car swaps, but some of us are getting a little worried about you. If you really want to change cars every few months, why not keep 1 or 2 as long termers — of you, that means a year — and rent a new ride every couple of months for fun?

I'll have you know that we've had my daughter's Jetta for almost 2 years now! Yeah, that probably doesn't count, huh?

Do I sense an intervention?

corvette

Definitely getting the "intervention" vibe here!

stickguy

Problem is, when the CO. Crowd intervenes they all go car shopping.

28firefighter

I think if you have the money and spousal approval to do it, then more power to you. Far be it from me to judge.

Michaell

I've known @breld for a few years now. I get dizzy from the shopping and swapping that goes on. But, it's oh so much fun to join him for some test drives and serious car talk.

Every time I think to myself "Hmm, that looks like the perfect fleet", he or Mrs. @breld changes something out.

I know we all live vicariously through him. I also know he's a touch envious that I own the Outback and the MINI that are in my garage (yeah, they aren't exciting, but they are mine).

We've had long talks about "responsibility" and "long term ownership". I'm actively encouraging him to consolidate the Volvo and the MB into a single family vehicle that he and the Mrs. will both learn to live with, and swap out the fun cars when the mood strikes. I suspect that will happen, though the timeline is anybody's guess.

We talked about the Cayenne he posted yesterday - while that would be a great car to have, does the family vehicle also need to be sporty? He's got a Supra in the garage, for goodness sakes!

I'm not suggesting, for a moment, that they aren't responsible. Life circumstances have changed and neither of them are driving nearly as much as they used to, which makes long term ownership just a bit more palatable.

Great to have a productive conversation between members without it devolving into something less than civil. We all have different approaches, but what binds us together in this thread is a shared love of cars.

stickguy

That’s basically what I used to do. Wife had the family car (3 minivans then the RDXs). All reasonably long term (Other than the voyager dumped at 3 because of really good resale combined with too many issues) the others went 7-8 years, so usually paid off. Which let me rotate used cars when the mood and $ aspects aligned.

Got off that a bit when I started leasing, but hoping to be back on that plan soon. Now that her car is again the “good” car and usually one to handle traveling duties.

Really feeling a GTI urge...

How often they flip, depends on age and cost. A 2019, gonna hang around. A 2012, make an offer any time!

kyfdx

I highly recommend the GTI.

sda

I have the itch bad. 7 year itch?? No not that one, though the Accord has been in the fold 7 years as of today. That is the longest I’ve owned any car. I am always looking for my next car but with me driving so few miles currently, a daughter in college, an iffy job status I have to use restraint. One car payment is enough for now. You all go out and buy something!

28firefighter

Without this place as an outlet, my wife surely would have smothered me by now.

Michaell

@sda - I think about pulling the trigger on something, all the time (but, especially when I'm out with @breld).

But having zero car payments on relatively new vehicles makes me think twice about it.

Would be fun to get 3rd fun car for me (did someone say GTI?), or, trading in the Outback for something more luxurious and/or sporty, but still retain the utility we need for a single car (we've been making a lot of trips to the vet lately, so it's been easier to simply keep the kennel in the back of the Subaru).

Until then, I, like so many others on this thread, will live vicariously through those that do buy and sell. And, offer opinions along the way.

qbrozen

I consider the family vehicle to be boring, hence why we have a paid-for T&C in the driveway, with a lifetime warranty, no less. Seems to be no reason to mess with that. Wife isn't a big time flipper, so leasing her runabout seems to be the way to keep going. Meanwhile, since I'm not commuting, a steady rotation on my 2 vehicles seems somewhat reasonable. I've crossed one year with the Charger and really see no reason to dump it, though. I don't want to lose the hemi orange. lol.

sda

Q, I know it is a little tender subject, are you working on the Coronet? If I recall you were having overheating issues and planned to install ac.

xwesx

breld said:

Is it one of our goals to hold onto cars longer and do better in that regard? Yes. Have we been successful with that goal? Not so far!

With goals, it is always a good idea to make them realistic; otherwise, you are bound for disappointment, and it is not healthy to feel like a failure your whole life.

Sandman6472

I've just decided to wait for the new 2021 GTI, as I feel like I'd be super unhappy if not. Not going to repeat the Tucson debacle again, so just seems best to stay the course here and keep the current Golf. My driving has gone down by like 80% at this point so not sure buying new right now is the thing to do. The next vehicle has to really blow my socks off for me to want to buy it. The Q3 last week checked all the boxes except it's length, think it's a tad too long for me to feel comfortable parking it in the garage. And driving the Accent this weekend had me liking it but, is it a vehicle I can live with for the next 5 to 8 years even in the top line Limited model? Just don't think so.
The advice my buddy at work told me is to just wait till the new GTI comes out and drive it a few times. He thinks I'm going to love it and will drive one home very quickly. And he just might be right here. But, if we stay the course, that axle boot will need to be taken care of and the front brakes possibly but would do them both at the same time to possibly save a bit of labor costs if doable. Come October, I'll make the decision if & when we fix those two issues if need be.
As to Corvette, take the money and run! You still have the truck and can sit tight for a good year, if not longer. But at this juncture and with that price, take it and run like ya stole it! You'll look back soon enough and be happy you did sell it now!

mjfloyd1

@Sandman6472

I doubt that you will like the ride of a GTI with its stiffer suspension and your bad back. Try a current GTI and see what you think.

If you want cheap to keep then look at Honda, Toyota or Hyundai/Kia

qbrozen

sda said:

Q, I know it is a little tender subject, are you working on the Coronet? If I recall you were having overheating issues and planned to install ac.

Oh, I had already done the A/C. I have some big home projects that have been keeping me busy. Rebuilt my decks with Trex. Railings have to go up. Then I've got my monster 24' x 20' pergola to build. I'd like to spend that time on the Coronet, but the pergola can't wait till winter. Getting the Coronet back together is going to be quite the feat since I'll have to find all the pieces and remember where they go. lol.