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USA TODAY's James R. Healey writes the Test Drive column, posted every Friday at: cars.usatoday.com. He has covered cars and the auto industry for USA TODAY since January 1988. From Auroras to VWs, he test drives about 100 cars and trucks a year. Talk live with Jim about his auto reviews and get his opinion on new models.
del city, OK: James, We enjoy your chat. If you have to buy a van which one you choose? 05'Odyssey, Siena, Quest? And why? (assume you don't need 4WD of Siena)
James R. Healey: I'd probably go with Odyssey for its sportier driving characteristics: Crisper steering, firmer brakes, peppier engine (on cheaper fuel), etc.
But, of course, I'd probably not buy a vehicle without AWD or 4x4 for my personal use -- well, maybe the new Mustang.
In other words AWD would be deciding factor.
Come on Honda, offer this important option!!!
In other words, "Give It Up", stop drinking the Kool Aid.
"But, of course, I'd probably not buy a vehicle without AWD or 4x4 for my personal use"
He states he would not buy a non-AWD/4WD vehicle for his personal use.
Steve, Host
AWD is the way to go, that's what he and aab4 are saying.
Better handling on all surfaces. Think the folks in Florida, the sunshine state, wish they had AWD or FWD?
Since Dan Healey's word is infallible, those of us who don't need AWD are better served with the Odyssey.
"James R. Healey: I'd probably go with Odyssey for its sportier driving characteristics: Crisper steering, firmer brakes, peppier engine (on cheaper fuel), etc. "
AWD is the way to go, that's what he and aab4 are saying.
Better handling on all surfaces. Think the folks in Florida, the sunshine state, wish they had AWD or FWD?
Not this again. :-) Why don't you try a Pilot or MDX with VSA & Traction Control and if just because you can spin 4 wheels at the same time will do you any good for stability and safety.
Anyway, Chrysler had a very cool stow-and-go exhibit. Seems like they actually want to sell their cars.
Salesman gave me that jazz about overinflated tires and powerful engine, but this was the most torque steer I had ever experienced in a front wheel drive vehicle of any kind. I would not be surprised if there was a recall or bulletin regarding this.
It would seem that you could never hit the gas without BOTH hand planted squarely on the wheel.
No hint of this in the AWD Sienna that I test drove the same day.
Nonetheless, I am still a fan because even with the torque steer, the ride still beats the Sienna because I like road feel.
It should be an option. All Subaru's have them, and Honda could of gone for a great vehicle instead of just a very good one.
If you don't want one that's fine, but like James R. Healey of USA Today said:
"But, of course, I'd probably not buy a vehicle without AWD or 4x4 for my personal use -- well, maybe the new Mustang."
He said this after the person who wrote him, wanted him to recommend a Van, Odyssey, Sienna or Quest, but not with AWD as an option. He deemed it important enough to let the reader know for him, no vehicle of his would be without AWD or 4WD.
For some one who is as knowledgeable about cars as he is, that's an important fact.
So until you drive a vehicle with AWD, you think FWD will suffice, but think instead the Odyssey could be even better with an AWD option.
Better handling, especially in rain or snow, and no torque steer.
Not a difficult concept to understand.
Disadvantages:
lower fuel economy
higher upfront costs
more parts to maintain
advantages:
keeps four wheels spinning during snow
can manage power between four wheels
and add more to the list if I missed anything.
I had FWD sedans and minivans in 20 Anchorage winters, and now have a FWD minivan and an AWD Outback here in Boise. Except for one or two powder days, I could get by just fine in the van. Or I could have sprung for studded tires or Blizzaks instead of the Outback (but I needed a second car and I knew the used OB I bought well).
I searched the Subaru site last week for "safety" and found two references touting AWD safety (link). You think they'd tout it more if it were such a huge safety advantage.
I think I'll reopen the AWD vs FWD with VSC + Traction Control discussion since this thread is taking on a life of its own. Please pick it up in there so we can get back to '05 Ody features in here. Thanks,
Steve, Host
Does the Odyssey not come with a standard cassette playerÉ
Does the touring model come with the 9 in. Nav screen anyways for the Multi-info. displayÉ
Thanks!
You need to buy RES and NAV to get the screen. Right?
The disadvantages, for example, involve things that are peripheral to the true purpose of the car and should be relatively minor to most people (except for upfront costs, in -some- instances) However, the advantages in handling and driveability in the right circumstances go to the very function of the vehicle itself.
In short, I don't think it's too big a deal that AWD in a van "costs" you 2 mpg, and I'm not convinced that repairs are an issue (they never have been in my AWD) The issue of upfront costs can be mitigated by simply trading off options. Get AWD, for example, instead of leather or a NAV, if you really need it. An '04 AWD Sienna LE can be had for less than 30K.
Just like many other things in life, nothing comes perfect. Make a compromise. Compare these two which one fit your need best, and pick one. If AWD is your thing, go get Sienna! I am pretty sure Honda is looking at how many AWD Sienna are selling, which I don't think that many. It's a big maybe Honda might make a AWD Odyssey, But NOT NOW. SOmeone always comes up with better refined stuff. Who know Nissan or even Kia might come up with something Odyssey and Sienna combined, yet that is a maybe and sometime in the future. If you got some time in your hand, just sit tight and wait hoping for the best. If you want to buy something in the near future, this is it. Choose one from what is available.
If money is no object, everyone would love AWD. I think this AWD argument is wasting time. Money is scarce resource for most people here. Most can do without AWD ($2000). Sales numbers of Sienna show that, don't they?
Point is in educating people, to realize it should be an option.
One bad storm, and it's worth it. Not only snow but rain, and yes the Acura SH-AWD would be great as an option. That option would of made the Odyssey a clear winner, and heads above everything else. Now it is an overpriced good, but not great soccer mom Van,
As you can see from here there is a growing number of people who want it, so put as an added expense, and cover all the bases.
Once you have an AWD vehicle you won't want to go back to FWD.
No torque steer, better handling and safer in bad conditions. Guess those are not good reasons.
No torque steer, better handling and safer in bad conditions.
If you think AWD is over rated fine.
Funny how most knowledgeable reviewers prefer AWD.
As a host aren't you supposed to be neutral and not so opinioned?
You sound like the media in the presidential campaign, or Dan Rather who says yea, he's really independent.
Most professional reviewers prefer AWD drive versus FWD.
In fact the new Acura RL is all about AWD. Honda’s new version SH-AWD.
Guess Honda thinks AWD is important too, just not on the Odyssey.
But we're boring everyone else - take it to the AWD vs FWD with VSC + Traction Control discussion please.
Steve, Host
Trying to steer discussion to to the AWD vs FWD with VSC + Traction Control discussion please, is really your way of not recognizing this is a major disappointment and disadvantage of 2005 Odyssey. I of course prefer AWD, and soon all my vehicles will have AWD or 4WD.
To me, it’s that important an option, and why I am leaning toward the Sienna AWD.
Due to the amount of discussion, it looks like you’re boring everyone else. Seems AWD is important to more than 1 person on these boards.
So now should we have a site for Navigation, Run Flat Tire discussions. Nope.
If Honda offered AWD, especially the SH-AWD as an option, it would be the undisputed heavy weight champion of the mini van segment.
Now it is another good choice in a range of vehicles including the new Ford Freestyle, Sienna, Quest, and Chrysler’s Stow and GO
Steve, Host
Steve, Host
Thanks,
-Nanda
..................................
If you think you are a true fan of Honda products, then you'd clearly know by now that they never show all their cards on the first hand (model release).
Example: Nissan delivered the improved Ultima, Mazda finally made a decent sedan the Mazda 6, then Slap... drops the H-bomb with the new Accord an d vaporized the competition. I drove both all these vehicles as there were released (got the free $75 teaser products from both mfgr's) and bought the 2003 EX-L Navi 4cyl Accord. In my opinion, all other sedans are just detours on your way to the Honda dealer. The thing is most people get stuck on little things like price (so they buy the Ultima), or style and performance (so they buy the Mazda6), but if you've haven't been informed yet...Honda's deliver BALANCE. Their sercet to success is blending the right combination of style, comfort, performance, effeciency, and of course safety. If you try to win in every category, you'll abandon others. Think of the Honda products as mutual funds...a blend of all the best Stocks. You may not get all the Intel stock (except if you buy the Navi;), or all the Cisco, and Pfizer shares you wanted, but when the market turns your ride won't tank. The value will hold steady. Toyota has always had massive Sales even offering 0% financing, because they focus on selling VALUE... so if sales are slow they are forced to mark them down even further to hold your attention span...further impacting their Newly sold vehicles resale, sort of like Dodge did by flooding the rental fleets with the new 300's, but less drastic.
The same applies to Honda's line-up motorycles...which I have had only a small taste of. Basically, if Honda doesn't make it, you probably don't need...is a belief I've formulated as my buying tastes have matured.
Back to "minivans." My wife and I had the pleasure to Demo a 05 EX Touring (no nav/RES:( yesterday at Tracy Honda, CA. A quick little qualifer 1st (we just bought a mint used 97 Ody EX for my cycling/sport activities...and sold our 02 EX-cloth 4cyl Accord). Prior to our 02 O3 Accords, we drove a 1992 Corolla and a same year Miata. I've been pleased with the performance, handling, price, and effeciency (19.9-31.5mpg...ave 26) of my 97 Ody after taking ownership just 4 weeks ago. This older "sleeper" Ody is quite a vehicle. My wife would not drive our 97, but I did manange to have her do a 60 mile stint under extreme initial protest (she just hates minivans). Last week we were servicing her 03 Acc. and I gave her the quicky tour of a parked 05 Ody. Didn't want to force it down her throat...rather let the vehicle speak for itself. Yesterday I had hinted that we would take the 05 out when we returned to the dealer to pick our 97 for a ignition switch recall and a complimentary 75k tune-up ($175 value) they automatically do with this particular recall...I guess to ease the pain or bad press....works for me
Anwayz, back to the demo ride. Having autocrossed and participated in track events with my Miata, which I sincerley missed since selling the "UFO" back 2.5yrs ago, I was ready to put-er-through-er-paces. The sales rep. pointed me to the local farm land chicanes and I attacked. Approached a right 90 degree turn at "above average" speeds, and the wife in the passenger seat did the familiar..."grab the door handle, and armest, push legs straight into floor, and hunch back into the seat pose" as the EBD brake system helped us re-enter the atmosphere. Got her pointed around the corner...with D3 selected, mashed and single handedly left keep it straight...with virtually no torque steer...impressive for a RWD junkie. It didn't exactly have the hit and snarl I was expecting from the iVTEC V6(I guess from the Ultima T-drive experience displayed more gusto), but again I remembered the "Balance" motto. I've never felt brakes like this before...silky smooth, yet eyeball detaching at the same time. Played with all the wheel mounted info. toggles features, tire pressure, real time mileage, range, etc. then pulled over and let the lady drive the Ody. She was hesitant but willing, and gingerly took a couple of turns, stating, "how do I get back to the dealer." I had her pull over since I wanted to try a freeway loop and she wouldn't oblidge. We swapped seats without opening a single door
Overall, there is nothing available on planet Earth to match the "Total" package served up by the new Ody. The stealth soccer mom exterior (with a great front end treatment, and bad-[non-permissible content removed] 7series wannabe rims
Thanks for listening,
-Nanda
Brentwood, CA
Trying to steer discussion to to the AWD vs FWD with VSC + Traction Control discussion please, is really your way of not recognizing this is a major disappointment and disadvantage of 2005 Odyssey. I of course prefer AWD, and soon all my vehicles will have AWD or 4WD.
To me, it’s that important an option, and why I am leaning toward the Sienna AWD.
Due to the amount of discussion, it looks like you’re boring everyone else. Seems AWD is important to more than 1 person on these boards.
So now should we have a site for Navigation, Run Flat Tire discussions. Nope.
If Honda offered AWD, especially the SH-AWD as an option, it would be the undisputed heavy weight champion of the mini van segment.
Now it is another good choice in a range of vehicles including the new Ford Freestyle, Sienna, Quest, and Chrysler’s Stow and GO
Well to each his own taste. For me, NAVI is a must have option from now on. All my new future cars will have the voice control NAV. Does NAV make it safer? Yes absolutely. I no longer have to worry about getting lost or fumbling looking for written directions while driving. So to me it's not a waste of money. But to you it is. But I do not think a car that doesn't have NAV is inferior. And I'm not gonna go on the forum for that car and start bitching and moaning about it and say that anyone who doesn't think AWD is safer is stupid. You don't like it, don't buy it. It's not an important feature to 90% of the Ody buyer. That's why Honda decided not to do it. Again, my point was that just AWD by itself doesn't make it safer. If you wanna go the route of using your experience as an example then I can also point out that the NAV is an important safety feature too.
However, in those situations where AWD -may- be necessary, there is little you can do to compensate, other than stop. If you are stuck, or unable to navigate an unplowed road, you cannot get a map to make up for not having AWD, and you cannot stop and ask directions as an alternative--or you cannot rely on the fact that most times you make trips you know exactly where you are going.
I have no problem with NAV systems for those who have the disposable income to get them when available, but it's hard for me to imagine someone who lives in an area with inclement winter weather opting for NAV over AWD if they could only choose one of the two.
Top 10 Safety Features for a Family Vehicle
But on this one:
Top 10 Safety Features/Tips
Steve, Host
Navigation can definitely be considered a safety feature, too. When using the Navigation system, you don't have to fumble with a map, and are told, in advance, to prepare for turns. If forced to detour, the Navigation system is always there. And if you need a hospital, or even gas in a strange area, it can find it quickly -- this can be very important.
Of course, opinions vary. That is one of the points I'm trying to make, and since AWD is not available on the 2005 Odyssey, I don't think we need waste a lot of time on it in this forum.
My neighbor just got a 05 Odyssey Touring addition, and he lost control coming out of a turn because he gunned it by accident, and due to torque steer, ran off the road into a ditch.
I drive a Subaru WRX, and let me tell you without AWD, many more people will have accidents when 255 HP goes to the front wheels, especially with drive by wire now puts that HP right there in the front wheels, and torque steer watch out.
So if you love Navigation systems, great, but Navigation Systems doesn't keep you out of ditches, AWD does.
I too am leaning to Sienna, because of pricing and AWD.
So give me AWD or give me death!!!!
I know that the EX has the option of using either the 8th seat or a console, and it's hard to believe the Honda would have made two different types of brackets for two different types of consoles on two such similar models.
I asked a woman at the Parts counter at my Honda dealer, and she said that the 8th seat will NOT fit on the Touring, but I'm very cynical and don't necessarily believe what one person says. (I'm originally from NYC <g>.)
I'm going to call Honda Customer Care next week about this, but I was hoping somebody here might know for sure.
-- EVAN
The salesman informed us how awful the Sienna's are. Also, he said the Sienna's are much higher, I said no they a dealing and giving rebates, he said Honda does not need to do that because they are so superior. After the test drive he said we can give you a great trade in on your van. It is 2004 Chevy Venture LT w/ every option(XM,Onstar, Premium Sound System, Towing Package), 7,500 miles, always garaged, in perfect condition. KBB shows trade-in of $18,250. The salesman came back to us with a great deal. They would give us $15,000 for our van and give us the Ody for only $39,909. Man what a deal. I said where did you get those numbers on the trade-in he said from KBB. I said funny here is what I got off of KBB. He stuttered and stammered for a while and said they also go by NADA. I said you also told me you would go below MSRP and now you go above it. Well, it's such a hot selling vehicle we can't come off MSRP and you are getting a great deal. My wife let him know how she felt about his deceitful tactics and I we will go somewhere that will be honest and not treat us like anxious idiots that they like to take advantage of. So I will be selling my van and will wait till Honda dealers come back to earth. I hope other people are having better luck. Honda's Arrogance is amazing,short term thinking Vs. long term thinking. I figure in a few months this will change to some degree. Sorry for such a long post.
was very nice,,,,but no awd and $38810 plus $4000
over the MSRP I have a 4 runner 4wd I will not get another without...So i shop for the honda because is nice look ok and I have 4wd....But the price was to much...So I got the Sienna 2005 awd with nav/dvd and more for $40000 and little more lesss then $100.00 so where are all of you say a pay $2000 for awd? I guess the nav/dvd in the honda is more then that. I got nav/dvd I will not get any car witout...But I will not get any car without AWD again...Ohh is drive much better
Here are my 3 cents,,,,before was two but honda when way up in price
What the hell is wrong with these folks!!!!
He's lucky I'm familiar with torque steer, otherwise both of us would of been in the Hospital.
Yea, it handles nice for a Van, but come on, this is no sports car, and with this much power, with NO AWD, you will be seeing some lawsuits soon, trust me, cause they are telling the prospective customers, go ahead, it can handle it.
Guess again, no AWD, torque steer, accident waiting to happen.
For me the Lexus AWD system in the Sienna is the way to go. For 2K more for AWD, I have peace of mind, and I prefer a luxury ride to a harsh ride any day of the week.
AWD is not the end all be all. I used to own a Subaru WRX and on the WRX forum, there were always posts on people having accidents in their AWD because they thought AWD made them invincible. Here's a dose of reality, AWD only helps if your powering your car. During coasting or braking your car behaves just like any other car. During emergency situations, who is gassing their car? Most of the time they are braking, so how does AWD help you out?
Geez, people get a grip! The ignorance spewed forth on the internet is pathetic.