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Comments
If I was Pirelli, Dunlop, Toyo, etc. etc., why in the heck would I pay a fee to my competitor to build THEIR tires for them, and then have to compete with them on the retail market? Especially since, as of now, only ONE model, of ONE vehicle line, offers the tire? If I was Pirelli, Dunlop, Toyo, etc. etc., wouldn't it be in my best interests to see the PAX system fail?
I'm waiting to hear the benefits of the PAX system over standard runflats. And I don't want something from a Michelin press release; has anyone, ANYONE, seen anything from a 3rd party test comparing PAX tires to standard runflats?
It's benefits are questionable Why would I ever want to drive with flat tire to begin with? How is that a benefit? Even with regular tire I can always drive off a freeway with a flat and fix it somewhere on the empty street?
I think PAX is nothing more then a marketing plot to charge more money for tires. I just can't find any other reason why would Honda stick something like this.
I have no problem with paying a little bit to change tires, but nobody have or will promise me in writing that Honda will not discontinue servicing these tires.
Actually not and Honda research proves it. Even consumers prove that minivans don't need AWD.
Odyssey Touring with Run Flat is a little too harsh for a family vehicle
This option will becoming standard on the competition in the coming years and Honda was first to do...Good Thinking Honda!
Safety first with side airbags standard too...too bad the competition doesn't do the same.
Why make the consumer pay extra for them as an option which like most other Toyotas that have optional side airbags or curtains, you can never find one with it equipped...very disappointing.
Come on Toyota...you can do better!
Where did you get this information? All the PAX docs and reviews say the PAX tires are softer than other run-flat tires because it doesn't require a harder sidewall. You must be referring to the one used in the Sienna. Again, Toyota is usually a little behind in technology. PAX uses a support ring attached to the rim. So it's firmer and last longer. It also doesn't need the tire itself to be any stronger. The one used in the Sienna is the older one that require a tough sidewall to support the weight of the car. I think someone on this forum posted a link not too long ago about the different types of run-flat technology. PAX is the latest and greatest in run-flat technology. It's definitely doesn't make the ride any harsher.
That's a strong statement about a new product. Inferior means it's worse in every way. How can a tire that let you not having to stop in the middle road and change it is inferior? Or if you're running late to work in the morning and not having to replace a tire means not having to waste 15-30mins, then is that inferior? And for some of us, it means not having to wory about where your wife get stranded, get out of work to get there to help her replace the tire in the middle of the road. Why is that inferior? It's correct to say that it's unproven, but inferior? I don't think so. Its market acceptability is quesitonable, I agree. But just because other people feel they don't need it doesn't mean it's inferior or not useful for some. Again, I'm not saying PAX is superior, unlike the AWD crowd. I'm just saying it's not inferior. It's a solution for some problems that some people need. That's the whole reason why I have to get the Touring. This is what get my wife excited about the new Ody. Again, your need will be different. But I wouldn't say PAX is inferior.
Good question. Can anyone with a Touring check out the nuts and bolts on the PAX wheels? If it's standard, there's no reason why you or any auto shop can't do it. It's just a matter of swapping them. No tires unmounting or mounting. There might be that extra wires for the Tire Press Monitor. Or maybe that one is transmitted wirelessly.
I agree that this is the biggest risk or minuses about the PAX. But for now, you should be able to drive it for at least 50-80k miles. Or at least a couple years down the road. By that time, your warranty expired anyway. And I'm sure if Honda dropped the support, there will be a bunch of people out there selling replacement wheels that can use regular tires for the Touring, especially when the target buyer are ones with some extra dough to spend since they got the high end model. But for me, the pluses outweigh the minuses for PAX.
"Low or lower in quality, value, or estimation: inferior craft; felt inferior to his older sibling."
Anyway let take a look at your examples:
1. If my tire deflate while I am driving to work I will replace it. I do not see how replacing it later is going to save me... time (was it saved time that was your benefit?).
2. My wife gets stranded... Well, so say she can get to a dealership, then what? Then I guess she can schedule an appointment to get something done say tomorrow. In any case I will have to drive there to pick her and my kids up.
If you worried about you or your wife getting strangled, buy a cell phone. Cell phone + AAA is going to be 1000% more effective then PAX tires. Just call up and nearest mechanic will get to you in less time that it will take you to drive to Honda dealership. And when he finishes you could continue on driving (to buy a cheap new tire, or to replace broken, or anything else you want to do)
If your are not a dealer and your only reason to get Touring is PAX, do not buy Touring. I on the other hand like other items in Touring, yet I hate PAX.
With PAX a flat tire during a vacation can mess up all your plans while you have to wait for Michelin to deliver that PAX tire (did you see they did not specified how soon they'll deliver it). Michelin should not promise that they will deliver it, they should promise that they will have it when I need the tire and where I need it. They can't and they won't promise that, thus my statement: PAX is indeed inferior to regular tires.
And lets not forget it is not that PAX is less versatile, there is also a higher cost that's attached to them.
Again, I don't want to turn this into another AWD deal. It's important to me. But I'm not saying it's important to others. I was just responding to someone's question about PAX whether it has benefits. And indeed it has benefits. It's definitely not inferior based on your definition of lower in quality. How is PAX considered low in quality? What's your definition of quality now?
Look, if you're that strongly negative about PAX then we can stop here and just agree that you and I don't agree. You made your points and I made my points. Let the person who asked the question decide for himself/herself. If we're not careful this will easily turn into another AWD debate.
Anyone knows the new Ody's coefficient of drag?
I'm sold on the PAX.
Let me ask my question this way: If standard runflats have sidewalls which are 50% stiffer than non-runflats, while PAX tires are 'only' 40% stiffer, then yes, the PAX tires will be 'less harsh' than standard runflats. But they are still substantially harsher than standard tires. Would I be willing to put up with a proprietary technology (which I can't change out without voiding my warrantee), just for a marginally 'less stiff' ride?
Soul searching time - if Toyota had introduced PAX tires last year on their XLE Ltd., how many of you Honda fans would be saying "gee, I sure wish Honda offered that on the new Ody" and how many of you would be bring up EXACTLY my same concerns?
So long all and I will miss all the old timers.
Technical discussion? Fine. Contribute something besides Michelin press kit material and Honda sales brochure info.
New technology and nothing is perfect? Of course, I understand that. But Michelin did NOT have to design a special new type of rim for their new tire. They have a history (including and beyond the old TRX) of introducing new tire technology which required a special rim. They have ALL fallen flat. All I have asked for is a rational discussion (including at least SOME objective comparison) between the PAX runflat system and standard runflats. And an explanation of why they HAD to develop a non-standard sized rim would be good too.
Question: Where can I find the Consumer Digest article?
Hopefully noone that has been around will get chased off by the occassional flare-up on a particular issue. Usually, the "debate" on AWD, PAX, or shatever runs it' course quickly, since people make their points in the first few posts, and the rest is rehashing the same points ad nauseum (aka "electronic tongue sticking out")
For those of us still considering what to buy, and very interested in the Ody, the best posts are real-world impressions from early adapters, so please don't get frustrated and come back to post your thoughts.
And remember, the scroll wheel is a powerful tool.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The same is with the Sienna as it make the minivan look cheaper. Why doesn't Toyota make them standard?
Hopefully, the fact that the Ody has all of the safety features as standard equipment on all trim levels will force Toyota to do the same.
Isn't competition great?
If anyone is interested, there is also a reason (based in physics) why the PAX tires may have more torque steer.
What is the noise canceling system? Is it just in the EX-L and Touring?
In other words, if one of the benefits of PAX tires is their less harsh ride compared to standard runflats, could this also be accomplished with revised shocks?
What is the noise canceling system? Is it just in the EX-L and Touring?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
What is the noise canceling system? Is it just in the EX-L and Touring?
It is not possible to have one subscription share 2 radios.
I have been thinking about getting the Touring but was concerned about PAX. I have learned this much ... there are PROS $ CONS. Huge PRO for me is that if my wife gets a flat, she can keep driving and does not get impacted. Can't tell you how much I love that. The CON for me is that it's expensive and that if we are going on a family trip, we are probably doing the travelling over a weekend and thus in the remote chance that we get a flat, the Honda dealerships will be closed. Michelin guarantees a 12 hour turnaround but I do not think that is great. It's thus a personal thing and I need to decide what to do. Bottom line is that it is indeed a terrific technology but there is some potential adverse impacts in certain scenarios.
There is a toll free number for PAX (877-729-8473) and they were able to answer all questions. Apparently, this is the number you call when there is a problem. They answered my question about rotating tires and told me that anyone can rotate the tires. They also clarified the ballpark cost. A new tire would probably be just under $250 and if you need a new assembly that would be around $600. The chances are that when you have a flat, you would only need a new tire.
I wish Honda would educate their sales people on PAX so that they can answer my questions. I am still undecided but now have the info I need (thanks in part to this forum) and I will weigh everything up and make my decision.
The ex-l and the touring models both come with the vcm and anc, but the touring has the additional features like the rear power tail gate, memory seats, front and rear parking sensors....
What is the noise canceling system? Is it just in the EX-L and Touring?
Really? I wonder how many Austin area tire dealers carry the PAX tires? I may just sit down at lunch today and see. And posts from other Honda salesman seem to indicate that the vehicles should come back to the dealer for tire service.
Just out of curiosity austindealer, are you at First Texas, Howdy, or Classic?
I only test drove, so don't have a manual to look at.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
However, we are greatly oversimplifying here. The greater thickness of the regular run flats brings in more physics to consider. I considered the compliance due to the sidewall height with same thickness, but thicker rubber would change things. And the rubber also has an inherent compliance due to its structural makeup, etc.
On a slightly different note, I noticed that the Touring model has a slightly larger stabilizer bar than the other models. I don't really know how a stabilizer bar works. Can someone help me out? My intuition tells me that it may have something to do with the PAX wheels.
Honda used to be known for their double wishbone suspensions. Of course strut suspensions are less expensive. They're more compact also, which translates into more interior space.
While the engine is operating in its most economical range, this indicator comes on and stays on. It goes off when your vehicle uses extra fuel.
How does this tell you that VCM is not in use? The most economical range would be when VCM is active.
Where else does the manual discuss ECO or VCM? I can't find any other description.
"Their purpose in life is to try to keep the car's body from "rolling" in a sharp turn."
Quick read does not make me an expert, but thicker bar is probably put in to deal with heavier weight of Touring?
I also have a question. You state that PAX tires have a shorter side, is this true? I was under impression that PAX does not need a shorter and stiffer side due to it's design. It always sounded to me that Michelin could've used normal tires for PAX system, but choose not to do so for obvious marketing reasons (they need to make some money too).
"PAX System tires have a shorter sidewall and great flexibility."
You can also see this by noting that the PAX tire and wheel on the Odyssey Touring has a total outer diameter of 710mm. If you calculate the diameter of the tire on the EX in milimeters [16x25.4+2x0.65x235] you get 711.9mm--or about the same as the PAX. Noting that the wheel diameter of the PAX is 460mm (about 18 inches) and the wheel diameter of the regular tire is 406.4 mm (16 inches), then you must assume that it is the tire sidewall that is about two inches shorter.
Another thing to note is that the transmission and drive ratios for the Touring and the EXL are exactly the same but wheel sizes are different. The only way to make up the difference is in the tire sidewall height.