Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

That's the point. They are an extremely plentiful car. There is no 70s Chevelle shortage, so you don't need this pile of bolts to build a clone. (and I think someone was pulling your leg about the 2 door/4 door conversion). Of course, not all of the 1/3 million Chevelles were 2-doors but still there must be easy 25,000 two door cars running around and another 25,000 on cinder blocks. You have to remember that 4-door cars are busted up to save the 2-doors. That's how it works.

I've seen where most of these basket cases end up---from a $2,500 pile of junk to a $7,500 pile of junk.

Mr_Shiftright

I just found auction results for a very decent #3 1970 Chevelle that sold at Kruse Auction in January '05 for $8,500 (deduct 10% auction fees for actual sellling price). So figure $7.650. No way you are going to make that old car look like this one that sold at Kruse for an additional $5,000.

fintail

Was it a SS though? I figure fees into the price, too. The buyer pays it.

I think it could have been picked up for $2K. It would have been a good backyard project car for a father and son or something. As a very simple car, one could do a lot of work themselves, like powertrain and suspension. Figure 3-4K for that and maybe 5-6K for cosmetics (not 100pt quality, just good driver). You'd be in around 10-12Kish, and you could get it back easy after enjoying the finished product. Of course, the whole thing depends on how rusty it really was. But I was never turning about a quick turnaround.

"you have to remember that 4-door cars are busted up to save the 2-doors. That's how it works"

Yep...that's why finding a pristine fintail is like finding a flying pig, but a similar convert or even coupe is 100x easier to come by.

The listing has been deleted btw, so I bet it sold.

Mr_Shiftright

May god have mercy on his soul. I hope they bought it for parts.

I can't get your "math" here. I think you are way too optimistic about the cost of building a nice clone to SS specs. You're describing a $25,000 project and hundreds and hundreds of man hours. No a task for the easily daunted, and really, given the nice old Chevelles around to build up, it seems totally pointless. I'll bet I could find a RUNNING '70 Chevelle coupe for $3,000. Not pretty, but running.

RE: 4-doors....yes, it is one of those odd rules of old cars, that the more common and "un-special" the car, the faster the rate of destruction.

You can still see 4-door fintails (I see them all the time here in California) but you hardly never ever see Pintos or Citations, etc. So that tells me the 4-door fintails, while more numerous than the coupes, still weren't regarded as a totally common, mundane, pedestrian, disposable car. A 4-door Chevelle was, however, since they were mostly "strippers" and not even Malibus.

fintail

The car is already an SS, it just needs a powertrain and restoration. There isn't a spec to really be met. I am also not talking about a concours winer, just a cosmetically good driver. With the market being as overheated as it is for real cars, I think one could not be hurt so much.

I think I see even more plain old W114 240Ds and such than Pintos or Citations...those cars really are gone. I think the badge on the front can help a car survive too...not to mention superior build quality.

I can't recall the last time I saw a 68-72 Chevelle sedan in any condition.

Mr_Shiftright

It just HIT ME what happened with that car!

What might have happened, and I bet it did, is that the car will be junked if it has a valid SS data plate with big block and 4-speed codes, and that plate will be used on a counterfeit car or worse yet, a stolen one. I've seen that more than once.

The SS vin plate is worth the money, not the car.

fintail

You very well could be right. Probably a very easy thing to do. Move the plate to a fake, part out the real car...make your money back and then some.

Mr_Shiftright

Counterfeit and fraud is currently RAMPANT in the muscle car world right now. It's gotten so bad I absolutely refuse to comment on a car's originality anymore. The counterfeiters are VERY clever...they've reproduced some of the stampings and even the bogus build sheets look pretty good. Raised casting #s are harder to fake but I hear someone's tried it with glue-molds or something like that. The casting numbers look real but you can chip them right off.

It could get as weird as it has gotten with rare race cars....once a car hits a million bucks or so, it actually pays to reproduce the entire car exactly--all you really need is a correct engine and some Eastern European or Italian panel beaters and welders and you're on your way.

I suppose someday we'll have the equivalent of DNA testing for muscle cars!

xwesx

"I think I see more.... than Pintos or Citations... those cars really are gone."

I have a 1974 Pinto wagon. Unfortunately, the original I4 threw a rod and cracked the block back in '99, so it doesn't run at this point, but I'll get it back on the road eventually. It is actually in darned good condition for being a worthless old car (no rust, only a couple very minor tears in upholstery, no body damage, etc). If only I had the time to work on it - it could be a driveable worthless old car!

stickguy

even more fun if you get one of those kits to convert it to a V-8.

Mr_Shiftright

With I trust brakes and suspension to match that newfound power.

I think that Pinto would be nice with a Mazda rotary engine and 5-speed transmission in it.

stickguy

they make a kit for that? I know you can get the V8 kit. Might as well go all the way and tub the rear, but that might cut into cargo space.

Mr_Shiftright

Sounds like a street rod Death Trap to me. I've driven some of these "conversions" and basically you steer with the gas pedal.

lemmer

On the Lancia Scorpion race car - The auction expired twice now. He turned down $4,050. He lowered his buy it now to $7,500 but could not get it.

This Datsun is tempting, but I doubt it is worth it to fix up.

link title

gsemike

At a thousand, the reserve has already been met but this bothers me:

"Frame rails seem to be in good shape"

All the other statements seem pretty specifc, than he get's vague about the frame. hhhmmmm Since he has gone over this thing, why is he hedging?

You're talking alot of body work including floor pans and questionable health of the frame. Even if the frame was brand spanking new, it would be a close call.

stickguy

Steering with the gas pedal. What, that's a bad thing???

ANd that Datsun has rat written all over it. WIll likely cost way more to make it decent than it is worth (which means you should buy the best one you can find instead).

I'd rather get involved with a sound, clean car that needs mechanicals than a rebuilt motor in a rust bucket.

jaserb

I had a '73 that had those same BBS wheels, only in gold. Lots of fun. That car I wouldn't touch with a 10 ft pole as it looks like there's rust lurking everywhere. You can buy a really nice 240 for cheap enough that this project is a non-starter.

-Jason

Mr_Shiftright

No, steering with the gas pedal isn't a bad thing at all, .....if you know how to steer with the gas pedal....if you don't, then you GET steered by the gas pedal and this can have unfortunate consequences.

Mr_Shiftright

Um....you can buy a decent DRIVER 356C for $16,500 so tell me again why this pile of junk is worth $10K.

More like a parts car. Value? $750. If engine runs, add $1,500 core value.

One thing people constantly fail to understand about a Porsche....if the body is badly rusted the car is not restorable, because it is a unibody and the floorpan and floorpan rails IS the frame.

Mr_Shiftright

Datsun Z -- looks like a parts car to me. You can buy nice clean ones foar $12,000, reall sharp, and you ain't gettin' from THERE to HERE for that amount of money.

Value? $1,500 for engine, trans and trim pieces and glass.

andre1969

twisted, and perverted, but I always kinda liked those Pinto wagons! My favorites were the sport wagons from the later 70's that had the little portholes in back! Xwesx, I hope you hold onto it, and fix it up someday. Don't let it go to the crusher! :shades:

Isn't that inline 4 the same 2.3 OHC unit that went into Fairmonts and Mustangs, and ultimately got turbocharged and used in cars like the T-bird? Instead of going the V-8 route, maybe you could just go with a newer, more powerful 4-cyl?

xwesx

Hey! There are kits for that?! That's great! I have a spare 302 that I was planning to dump in it, but again, I have not the time to work on it.... and it is 2300 miles away at the moment!

The 302 should really make for a fun car, but I unless I go overboard and really beef it up, I doubt I will be "steering with the gas pedal." :P

xwesx

Maybe, but I have the V8. Admittedly though, the V8 will involve a full rebuild, so cost savings may be negligible. By the time I am able to work on it I will probably have the flexibility to make a more informed and appropriate decision. It is a rather heavy car for the stock I4 in it and the range is about equal to my van and truck (225-250 miles or so). I do not have so much of an impulse to make a street rod out of it as I do to have a nicely powered, operational Pinto with all the nostalgia such a classic automobile can inspire...... :surprise: :P

Mr_Shiftright

A Mercury Capri V-6 would be nice....fairly smogless, compact, Ford product. I think a V-8 is too fat. You're going to have lots of grief with exhaust manifolds and steering boxes for one thing, and you'll be chopping the firewall I betcha.

Nice thing about the 302 is you can fit a C-6 automatic behind it and be done with figuring out clutch linkages, etc.

Also I'm sure you could build up a 2.3 engine so it had some guts.

hpmctorque

" Isn't that inline 4 the same 2.3 OHC unit that went into Fairmonts and Mustangs, and ultimately got turbocharged and used in cars like the T-bird?" Yes, it is.

"A Mercury Capri V-6 would be nice." I believe this is the German sourced V6, which was reputed to be a rather poor engine, Although I never learned exactly why.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh I think it was only about corrosion in the water jackets...you had to flush the coolant out periodically and then you were okay. I also dimly recall it had fiber timing gears like the equally rather carelessly designed Volvo 4 cylinders of the time, so that's something you'd want to replace with steel gears ASAP. The Pinto 4 cylinder also had something in common with the Volvo engines---it was a camshaft eater. Refinement in 4 cylinder engines was quite rare in the 1970s--perhaps only Mercedes had any clue about how to do it....oops...excuse me....the Datsun 510 engine was a little gem, too.

hpmctorque

"Refinement in 4 cylinder engines was quite rare in the 1970s..." How true! Perhaps the most unrefined - crude would be a more appropriate term - of these was the OHV 4 offered in the Chevy Nova in the '60s, with the runner-up being the Pontiac Tempest slant 4. To describe these as industrial might be too kind. The Vega engine felt refined (yes, I'm sober), if less durable, by comparison.

gsemike

I think that this car is kind of interesing @ maybe $6,000:

56 Chevy on Ebay

I see it as a car that maybe you do some sprucing to and then have as a driver rather than a total resto. This guy lives in Queens where you don't see much of anything like this so I wonder who's been taking care of this and how much wasn't done right... along those lines, the console that looks like it's out of a Chevelle is pretty cheesy.

Do you think that you could drop another $4 into it, and then have an OK driver to enjoy for $10?

Mr_Shiftright

Geez what a beater. I don't think you could ever come out right on this car, because I can already SMELL the rust, and the work is very badly done all around, the color sucks, wrong seats, engine, trans, wheels, god knows what else, screwed up dash, probably drives like it looks, too. The engine and dashboard wiring aren't encouraging are they? And when a DASHBOARD rusts, well, what does that tell you. Scary.....

Looks like the best part of this car is maybe the body shell if it isn't too heavily bondo'd up...might be able to make some kind of pro-street out of it or retro-rod, though personally I'd start out with something better.

Car is too screwed up and not worth the cost of restoration IMO. You can buy a decent clean all-original driver for around $15,000 (remember this is a two-door post sedan, not a HT) and a near-show car for $25K. Can you make this one a show car for $19,000? No way.

Present value as it sits, presuming it will drive around the block? About $2,500 IMHO..

qbrozen

Geez. If all that's true, my initial assessment on this one was WAY off. I was thinking "hmmm... Boyd Coddington could turn that into a street rod and it will fetch $50K."

lemmer

He lists "non-power drum brakes" as an option on the car. What was standard? Sticking your feet through the floor like Fred Flinstone?

Mr_Shiftright

Yes but Boyd Coddington can come out okay because his name is worth $$$. If you or I build the exact same rod, we are going to lose, absolutely, .50 cents for every dollar we spend.

Also keep in mind that he is usually spending someone ELSE'S money.... :P

qbrozen

Well, I didn't say I wanted to do the work on it.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but if you say that you'll get the old "but working on a car project is SO GOOD for you" argument, which more often than not, is just a way to justify getting in over your head in the first place. Doing appraisal work as I do sometimes, I have to deal with not being shot as the messenger when I tell an owner in dollar amounts that restoring that 6 cylinder Dodge Dart really wasn't a good idea. At the onset of a project, they are saying "oh, I know it's not a classic" or "I'm not doing this for money" but then alas they add up all the receipts and suddenly the full impact of how much time and money they've lost hits them.

Been there, done that.

lemmer

so I wouldn't even have to pay for shipping! Of course I have nowhere to put it, or any mechanical skills, or any use for it, but it would be cool to have an Army Jeep.

link title

jlawrence01

Can't count the number of antoque car auctions where the auctioneer says

"The buy has $30k in this baby ... going, going, gone, sold for $15k."

qbrozen

I'm really shocked that description comes from an Ebay user with a 322 feedback rating. I typically see nonsensical and very vague descriptions like that on the 10 feedback or less accounts.

Just what heck does this mean??
front drive and rear end

And what's with the 2 engines? Are they both in the jeep now? It follows that "front drive and rear end" statement, so maybe its got one engine driving the front wheels and one for the back. LOL. (yeah, yeah, i know, it doesn't, but that's almost what it sounds like in the description.) Are EITHER of the engines in the truck? And do either of them work??

Anyway, although I love jeeps, there is NO WAY I would touch that as a project car.

Mr_Shiftright

I think he means both differentials are still in the vehicle.

Well really now, since these non-military Jeeps aren't worth THAT much all fixed up, this is obviously a parts vehicle.

Interesting---the guys home town is "remlap" which is "palmer" spelled backwards.

scanty

I was taking a short cut home last night and drove by a house that had FOUR of them parked in the driveway, along with a 944. I would have taken a picture for you, but I was without my camera.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes unfortunately the landscape is littered with 928s. Most of them are beaters, as often befalls cars with low value + high complexity.

Mine is running great.

A 928 is definitely NOT a project car, not never not no-how.

E.G. "Porsche 928, cleans runs well needs radiator and new clutch."

Okay that $3,000 for starters.

gsemike

I don't know if this car would be worth $700 if it was running:

95 Altima on Ebay

With that damage on the rear quarter, it's time to call the junkyard.

qbrozen

Hahahaa!
I think the artistic pictures alone will rocket this car to stardom. I mean, I know that a blurry pic of the cassette player with the missing knob and the pic of the radiator cap are pulling me in to the bidding frenzy.

andre1969

with that Altima is that its 4-cyl is an interference engine. If the timing gear went bad, I'm sure its safe to assume that the engine is toast. Personally, I wouldn't be concerned too much about the quarter panel at this price point. I could easily pound it out into more or less its original form just using my fist. I'm guessing the replacement taillight wouldn't be cheap, though. And I can't tell how bad the front fender is from the pic.

Shame, though. I think it's a nice looking car. I like that color combo.

gsemike

for that car are cheap and easy to find on Ebay. I just got a replacement for my 03 Altima for $4.99 + 15 shipping. Let's say the car was running with 150k and had the dent but had a taillight. What would you have??? Probavbly a $700 car.

lemko

...but is that car sitting in water or are those two flat tires on wet pavement? Either way, this car's been sitting a long time in a damp place. Fold it!

andre1969

I guess I was just thinking that the taillight would be expensive, because last year a buddy of mine had to get a new headlight assembly, for a '95 Grand Marquis. That sucker cost $225! I mentioned, jokingly, that I once paid $250 for a CAR (well, okay, it was a '79 Newport out of a junkyard, with 230,000 miles on it ) and he just told me to shuddup!

Well, then we couldn't figure out how to put it on, so he had to pay someone about 60 bucks for that. And then, a few months later, got a new car urge and traded the thing in at CarMax for an '04 Crown Vic. He got a whopping $600 in trade.

I didn't even think of going the eBay route. My Intrepid's headlights are getting really cloudy, so maybe I'll try to snag some off eBay, instead of going to the dealer for some new ones. Or just trade it on a new Charger! :shades:

andre1969

yeah, it's sitting in about 2-3 inches of water. Probably not a good thing! :surprise:

lemmer

928

Trans Am

real SS

Christine

toomanyfumes

Does anyone really believe that Firebird has 7400 original miles? :confuse:

fintail

Speaking of 928s...not a project car, but I am sure Shifty will have an opinion. Sure is a pretty thing

This is priced like a runner but appears to be a project. Never a good sign when the front and back are different colors. I am also pretty sure these had an airbag...but this one does not have the right steering wheel. Bad sign