Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

british_rover

Makes me wonder if the same guy who designed that part of the 2002 designed that part of the Freelander. The heater core on one of those is warranty book time 6 or 7 hours and typicaly takes much longer.

Oh and they are always breaking like every other part on a freelander. :lemon: :sick:

isellhondas

Especially when they start reccommending those " while we are in there" items.

Ever see the radiator hoses and coolant pipes on those little pieces of junk?

I guess they could corner pretty well?

isellhondas

Land Rovers break? Say it isn't so! :sick:

Mr_Shiftright

X1/9 is a great handling little car and a real bargain...but you have to be 5' 8" or less and you have to know someone who can work on Fiats.

They aren't very fast and everything on them is incredibly cheap and fragile, but hey, a mid-engine targa for $2,000?

fintail

Haha, I saw another Freelander yesterday, it was even moving under its own power.

Looks like the pawned a lot of them off on the dopes around here.

isellhondas

In the town where I grew up, San Pedro CA, there was a guy who only worked on Fiats. He had a monopoly because the other shops refused to work on them. His parking lot was always full and he was always backlogged.

Yeah, I'll bet they are a lot of fun for little money but I wouldn't be able to get the vision of that wrecked one out of my mind. Besides, I'm too tall.

I once tried to sit in an MG Midget and that didn't work either. I'm not that big..5'11" and 180 pounds but I couldn't get in the thing!

british_rover

The freelander just might be the least reliable modern vehicle ever made.

Other Land Rovers are built like Hondas compared to it.

isellhondas

I always thought Freelanders were for the Land Rover wannabeees?

fintail

Sounds right. I won't go on about the demographic too...must....resist...temptation...

So, in the garage of my apartment building we have 2 Freelanders, 2 Discoverys, and a 2003+ Range Rover. There was also a LR3 once, but I haven't noticed it in ages. Maybe I could open a shop in the garage and work from home!

Mr_Shiftright

Got a lot of rough terrain in that apartment building, do you?

I've been thinking of creating a little chart for old cars called the TTT chart, as in "Take To Total?" and come up with a number that would total the car....this would be a different way of conveying information than the standard 'retail value'.

If we presume 80% of average retail to total a car, the Fiat X1/9 would have a TTT value of $2,000.

You could also use the TTT value to predict restoration costs....in other words, you'd glance at the TTT and then look at the "project" you are thinking of buying, and decide if you could make this Fiat Exhibit A look really nice for $2,000. If not, you know you're better off buying one that's clean, happy and running.

And since the TTT is only 80% of average retail, there's a built in fudge factor of 20% for restoration cost overruns...which sounds naive, but hey....

fintail

The local mall has a lot of ramps in the parking garage. That's all I can figure out.

isellhondas

"Restoration cost overruns"

That can really happen??

british_rover

The local mall has a lot of ramps in the parking garage. That's all I can figure out.

The largest Land Rover dealer in the country is in Encino, CA and they do about half their volume in Range Rovers. Figure that one out...

Restoration cost overruns

That sounds like a gov't budget term.

qbrozen

correct.
The only reason I even knew what he was talking about was because I looked up the '06 results.

The 2 convertible chevelle SSs that went last year were $100k and $103k. But with buyer premium ... yikes!!

new one starts the 13th? wow. of january? That's kind of soon, isn't it? Aren't they usually in Feb?

I keep telling my wife I'd like to use that as my vacation one of these years. Of course, with the fast-growing popularity, it seems like that might never happen.

qbrozen

Alright, just what is up with this Benz??

I don't know what to think of it. If the miles are for real (which I don't see how), it doesn't seem bad, even with the damage. But what exactly IS the damage? Looks like some parts were taken from it in addition to the hit to the right-front.

qbrozen

kill it! Quickly! Before it breeds!

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's an $6,000 car in good shape all ready to roll, so I don't really see the point for $4,900 if it's anything more than 2 headlights. The poor thing could have just been sitting there rotting outside for ten years. Probably at an auction with a friend's dealers license you could snag this car nice and clean for $5K or LESS. In other words, at a dealer auction (or maybe even if you are a cagey retail shopper), you can buy this car undamaged for the price this seller is asking.

People who sell these crippled cars need to get real about "a pig in a poke". A car that doesn't run or is damaged is really a large flower pot with a high risk factor as to whether it will become a running flower pot again.

Offer $2,500 if it runs, don't go near it if you cant' get it started and aren't able to drive it.

"A Benz with needs is no Benz indeed".

RE: Mazda RX-V8: Well one always worries about an engine conversion replete with twist ties to hold the heater hoses, but he did manage to put in a cheapy strut tower brace to somewhat hold the poor body from twisting like a corkscrew when you whip those 225 horses. Might be fun if you know how to steer with the gas pedal. I vote "give it a test ride".

Mr_Shiftright

I was reading an issue of "Practical Classics" out of the UK. Now you might remember that this magazine covers the rescue and restoration of some of the most deplorable pieces of English junk ever made, so I wouldn't say they are catering to a snob standard by any means.

So anyway, one reader writes in asking about how hard it would be for them to rebuild the engine in a recently acquired Triumph TR7 and the magazine basically said, in so many words: "Don't bother trying".

Now THAT is a sobering testament to the TR7 engine!

fintail

Could be a car that was wrecked when new, and stored.

The damage is really odd to me. Missing parts, yet no significant body or paint damage. I suspect this car was in the process of being repaired, and someone gave up. I can't think of another reason for those lights to be missing...it's not like they have a huge value.

I am also pretty sure that style wheel didn't come around until 97 or 98, and that always makes me suspicious, esp with the claimed mileage.

Probably only good for a true DIYer, or parts. A really mint low mileage car like that would be worth 15K if all was well, but I suspect something is hiding.

Mr_Shiftright

Might be a GREAT deal if the price weren't so silly and the car was basically sound. I'd buy it blind for $900. I could easily flip it for that if it's a turkey.

fintail

Interesting way to...uh...spend money

Practical Classics is a great read, I haven't had a copy of that in too long. Lots of crap cars indeed, makes it fun.

fintail

Yeah, body panels and interior would be worth that.

If it has really sat for like 8 years, the engine might not be pretty...and that's where the value is.

Mr_Shiftright

What kind of racing class is this car in I wonder?

Yeah, it should be titled "Practical Crappy Cars"

Let's see, I'll just stab my finger blindly at the index and see what comes up......LOL! "restoring the Triumph Dolly" and an article on someone who paid 750 pounds for a totally wrecked Austin A40 Sport. 4 years later, with free labor and having spent 7000 pounds (!!) he now has a strange little convertible worth...well...I dunno...same as a Morris Minor convertible? (worth zero here in America of course).

fintail

Is "wannabe Honda" a racing class?

Those are the same people who will spend years restoring an Austin Allegro or a Ford Anglia. Very funny stuff. They must be into it for love more than money....which is respectable.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't know quite how to feel about the preservation of unworthy cars...on the one hand, one has to give a grudging respect for someone who toils in a meaningless task bereft of reason, profit or prestige, and on the other hand, one has to wonder how anyone could be that dumb.

I just don't know.....

qbrozen

you stated exactly why the ad confuses the heck out of me. It just doesn't make much sense.

If it was wrecked a while back, why wouldn't it have been fixed? I mean, who buys an s-class benz, has a fender bender, and says "eh, it looks good just sitting in my yard"?

So I would think it happened after it had depreciated greatly over the years .... but if it didn't happen till later in its life, where are the miles?

So none of it seems to add up. Maybe you are right that someone started and didn't finish. But, then again, would you paint the car before fixing the bumper?

Oh ... here's another possibility I just thought of. Maybe it was previously wrecked AND fixed with a salvage title. Then, when it got hit the 2nd time, it was let to sit ...???

I would contact the seller, but I have a feeling the answer will be "i dunno. i acquired it in this condition."

boomchek

Parts car for fintail
E55 AMG

Not project cars, but for Caddy lovers:

Cadillac collection

What exactly is worth $400 in this?:
Junk

This one worth fixing?:
BMW

andre1969

I wonder how much it would cost, total, to fix that BMW? If they're guessing $3500 in parts, I'd guess that labor would easily double that? FWIW, back when my uncle hit a deer with his 2003 Corolla, it didn't do that much damage, but it was still a cool $4855 to fix it.

FWIW I spec'ed out that car on Edmunds, throwing every option on it except the automatic tranny, and in outstanding condition they list a dealer retail of $19,562. So I'd imagine that $10,500 is pushing it for that wreck.

fintail

British....maybe it's the mindset that loved the cars when new. Seems ANYTHING is fair game for restoration there.

fintail

Oh that poor E55...looks to be a 2000+ model.

I agree with andre, that BMW is iffy at that price, and that style will probably depreciate less than slow with the new coupes out.

fintail

I suspect you are right on the seller of that car...they won't know. I bet the title history is odd too, it would be interesting to see the car inspected by an expert.

The mileage may be wrong, too. I would love to see interior and engine details.

If it runs fine right now, and the transmission is OK...it's almost worth it in parts. But who knows what it would take to get it back on the road.

lemko

Gee, that sounds like many jobs I've had!

fintail

Wow, a non grossly overpriced diesel

isellhondas

I noticed there was no mention of miles. It could be a worn out 300,000 mile car.

And, it's a stick. Few people want these.

Mr_Shiftright

BMW--just looking over the photos and knowing BMWs, and giving the seller every benefit, I'd say it's about $13,000 damage in a first-rate body shop. For one thing, it needs a chassis puller...those fenders will never fit right with the doors...the whole front has been pushed back. Then of course, radiator, condenser, fenders, hood, inner fenders, air dam, grille, headlight assemblies, front brace, and you'll need to paint 1/2 of a BMW to match the other half of a BMW.

His "$3,500" in parts is blatantly false.

AND...AND....you have a car with a salvage title!!

Waste of time....wrecker, please. Why do you think the insurance company totalled it? Do they like to give away money.....nooooooooo......

explorerx4

using my old carpenter's eye, the left front fender doesn't fit at the 'A' pillar but does at the front edge of the hood.
on the right side, the fender and the 'A' pillar match up, but the front of the hood does not fit with the fender.
the whole front clip looks like a repaint when looking in the area where the right front corner light is missing.

kapbot

Details?
In storage for 27 years.
Seems nice, too much money, IMO.
Same as above..
WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?
Put the crack pipe away!

fintail

I think it actually looks decent. A W123 can really deteriorate inside if neglected - the dash will crack and the wood will buckle. The pics anyway make it look very clean.

And believe me...if you have a 240D, you want a stick...I bet an automatic 240D has a 0-60 of around 25 secs. You need the stick to round up every drop of power possible.

But yeah, only in demand from weirdos and biodiesel people (same thing maybe? lol)

fintail

Hilarious Camry.

Did that Firebird spend a few years at the bottom of a lake? Wow

fintail

Looks like a decent driver/work car/etc

fintail

I can deal with spelling it wrong once...but twice?

Mr_Shiftright

Musta traded it in on a CAMERO.

andre1969

I really like the color on that '82 Delta. My '82 Supreme had the same color interior (cheaper material though), and the same color landau top. I've seen Oldsmobiles in that dark green before, but they seem to be very rare. The lighter "jadestone" seemed to be much more common. Once I saw a Cutlass Supreme of that era that was a 2-tone jadestone over dark green (or was it the opposite?)

My dash and steering wheel were dark green, as in that Delta. I guess they did it that way, with the dark dash/steering wheel and light green interior, so that they could use the same interior for both the jadestone and the dark green.

Anybody know what they called that dark green color?

Heck, if that thing was close to me, I'd buy it, presuming it checked out. And as of this past Monday, in Maryland it qualifies for antique tags! I doubt if I could get Hagerty to insure it though.

qbrozen

good eye. I didn't even notice the problem on the driver's side, I was too busy looking at the mess on the passenger's side. Damage must be way worse than it first appears.

Mr_Shiftright

nope not eligible for Hagerty either...sigh...

qbrozen

why not?

the rep told me they would insure anything 20 years old. I finally got them to take my Alfa this past year when it turned 20.

fintail

Roller skate

This freaky little mutt is back

Mr_Shiftright

Well then your rep has to argue with the website. It says no unless it's a "collectible" type of car, like a sports car, very exotic make or rare high performance type of car. But a regular 4 door or common 2 door domestic generally has to be 1969 or older, is my understanding. Being a sports car is why the Alfa qualifies.

Maybe the rules changed, I dunno.

here's what they say:

"It use to be said that any vehicle 25 years old or older was considered collectible. Today, however, this is not the case. Automakers' production numbers significantly increased in the 1970's and quality standards fell as many manufacturers rushed to bring vehicles to market. Because of this increase in production, we still see many 1970's and early 80's vehicles driven daily today that are not collectible. However, there are many vehicles from this time period that are collectible because of there desirable characteristics. Characteristics such as:

Convertibles
2-door sports cars (few 4-door sedans are collectible)
Unique body shapes
Foreign sports cars
Muscle cars
Big block V8 engines

Vehicles submitted to Hagerty from this time period should have one or more of these characteristics.

qbrozen

what the heck is a "sadan"? And, whatever it is, I'm sure that subie ain't one of 'em.

NOBODY will buy that "chevette." Ever. Just set the thing on fire, fer cryin' out loud.

qbrozen

interesting.
I do think their rules change on a regular basis. I don't remember ever reading that.

It used to say something like "vehicles of special interest" or something equally subjective like that. Leaving way too much room for interpretation.

And their description of qualifying cars younger than 20 years was also very vague, and a reason why I got into an argument on the phone with a sales rep several years ago regarding my Alfa. My argument was something to the effect, "of course its of special interest. there are clubs for the cars. the value is currently INCREASING instead of decreasing." etc etc. Of course, I didn't win.

I still think, however, that "unique body shapes" is arguable. That chevette fintail posted qualifies under that statement.