Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

andre1969

It got me to thinking, though, about which of the big 3 has had the best styling over the years. For me it's GM. Ford and Chrysler did some nice cars, but over the years it seems to me GM came out with more true winners than the other two. I even think that bloated Pontiac was ok in its way. Anyway, a bit nicer than the Fords and Chryslers of the era, imho. Any thoughts?

Yeah, for the most part I'd agree that GM has turned out more good looking cars than Ford or Chrysler over the years. Of the GM full-sizers in '72, I think the Pontiac was the worst looking of them, but I thought the Chevy and Buick that year were downright gorgeous. The Oldsmobile wasn't too bad, and neither was the Caddy. Although one thing I don't like is that style where they put the turn signals in between the headlights. But then over at Mopar, I don't really see anything in the fullsize range that's drop-dead gorgeous, either. I always thought the '71-76 GM cars pulled off that "fuselage" style much better than the '69-73 Mopars. The Mopars just look fat to me, but the GM cars seem better proportioned. Maybe because they have more glass area?

And over at Ford, I like the '72 Galaxie with that "poke through" center section grille, but I wouldn't call it a beautiful car. The Mercury Marquis, with its hidden headlights, was kinda cool, too, but again, hardly a beauty queen.

210delray

Oh, there's no question in my mind GM had the best styling of the former Big 3 back in the glory days. Sure there were some years when Ford or Chrysler might come out with something stunning -- like the '55 T-Bird, '57 big Mopars, and '61 Lincoln. But year after year, GM usually came out on top. They had Harley Earl and then Bill Mitchell as design chiefs.

And speaking of those '57 Mopars, it's kind of ironic that GM won in the end after all, with the '57 Chevy being so much more desirable even by the mid 60s than a comparable Ford or Plymouth.

Andre, I've always thought putting the turn signal/parking lights between quad headlights made for a distinctive look -- probably only because this was pretty uncommon. For safety though, I think today's predominantly outboard-mounted signal lamps work best.

fintail

Kind of overdone yeah, but the effort is worth some appreciation.

And no more of those awful dashboard textures, they learned something!

Mr_Shiftright

That's true, the interior is better for 2008. Still too many gee-gaws and pinball machine stuff.

benjaminh

Never restored, only 3k miles, very good condition. But what would you do with it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1924-CADILLAC-3-178-ORIGINAL-MILES-7-Pass-SUBURBA- N_W0QQitemZ270172509581QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6152QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI- tem

benjaminh

This is a nice looking big car for its day. Here's where you see a kind of Cadillac style which I think you can still see in the 08 CTS:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STUNNING-1941-CADILLAC-FLEETWOOD-SIXTY-SPECIAL_W0- QQitemZ280157929388QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6152QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Hey, it's gone over 12000 posts. Someone else should have had the honor...Like fintail.

benjaminh

The kind of car that Truman and Ike probably rode in....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1947-CADILLAC-SERIES-75-LIMOUSINE-FULLY-RESTORED-- MINT_W0QQitemZ190157416503QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6152QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi- ewItem

benjaminh

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1956-CADILLAC-HEARSE-MONSTER-TRUCK-THE-PUNGO-UNDE- RTAKER_W0QQitemZ320163621588QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6152QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZ- ViewItem

benjaminh

Nice shape, but pricey...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1958-Cadillac-Eldorado-Brougham-Collectors-Specia- l_W0QQitemZ260165100374QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6147QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI- tem

benjaminh

The fins that might slice cheese...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1959-CADILLAC-FLEETWOOD-SIXTY-SPECIAL-60-NO-RESER- VE_W0QQitemZ320164232827QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6149QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZView- Item

benjaminh

Can it be saved? Probably not...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/60-1960-Caddy-Cadillac-Fleetwood-Limo-Limousine_W- 0QQitemZ130159788400QQihZ003QQcategoryZ6149QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem-

benjaminh

Nice shots of the dash. State of the art for 69:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-CADILLAC-ELDORADO-FLEETWOOD-COUPE-ONLY-85K_W- 0QQitemZ220153631980QQihZ012QQcategoryZ6147QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem-

benjaminh

Cruella de Ville's later car?

Actually there was one very much like this in my neighborhood in the mid 70s. I thought it was way cool. I loved those fins. They seemed like the ultimate when I was 8 or 9...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Cadillac-Coupe-De-Ville-46-700-original-mile- s_W0QQitemZ170153781837QQihZ007QQcategoryZ6146QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewI- tem

benjaminh

only 400 original miles...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1975-CADILLAC-4DR-MUSEUM-PIECE-ONLY-411-ORIGINAL-- MILES_W0QQitemZ190157094947QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6146QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV- iewItem

benjaminh

I remember when a car like this was on the cover of Motor Trend, c. 1976. It seemed like the future had arrived...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadillac-Seville_W0QQitemZ220154775992QQihZ012QQc- ategoryZ6151QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

benjaminh

Basically my 88 Olds with fancier trip and a different engine...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1985-Cadillac-Sedan-de-Ville_W0QQitemZ28015960899- 5QQihZ018QQcategoryZ6152QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

benjaminh

Looks like it may finally sell...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dr-Death-Jack-Kevorkians-White-1989-Cadillac-Devi- lle_W0QQitemZ270170264434QQihZ017QQcategoryZ6146QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVie- wItem

texases

Liked that model, particularly without the vinyl top. Very classy.

benjaminh

white on white. Nice clean and clear dash design on this one. Almost hard to tell it's a Cadillac:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Really-Nice-Cadillac-Eldorado-LOW-MILES_W0QQitemZ- 190158364352QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6147QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

benjaminh

Fairly cheap. A late model Andre-mobile? Although right now I can't recall that he really likes Cadillacs enough to consider ever owning one...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/PEARL-WHITE-STS-CHROME-RIMS-NO-RESERVE-w-o-GPS_W0- QQitemZ190157418919QQihZ009QQcategoryZ124117QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIte- m

benjaminh

This is just a really fancy Opel, I think...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NO-RESERVE-Leather-Bose-CD-FREE-WARRANTY-w-BUY-IT- -NOW_W0QQitemZ140161839266QQihZ004QQcategoryZ6145QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZVi- ewItem

benjaminh

With the 6 speed manual. Does this have a Corvette engine?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130157920332&fromM- akeTrack=true&ssPageName=VIP:watchlink:middle:us

texases

yep, not the Northstar

fintail

Yeah, it is a little busy inside. I like things somewhat simple - I actually prefer the dash layout of my W210 E55 compared to the W211. But, this is the age of being overdone, and some will like all of the distractions.

fintail

That design is an all time classic, more significant than any CTS.

I like that old Caddy Suburban too.

I have never seen a 59-60 Brougham on ebay, I wonder if one has ever turned up.

andre1969

as long as it's not of the less tasteful hues such as babypoop or pondscum. So I really like that '75 DeVille and the '78 Seville.

I think that Seville really was a modern looking car for the time. One thing I really like about it is how it has large wheels, and the car has a pretty wide track. The body doesn't really hang out over the wheels, like most cars did back then. Even though the downsized cars started tucking it in, they still seemed to hang over more than that Seville.

Most cars that "small" would have only had 14" rims back then, but the Seville was a heavy car. I think they weighed about 4200 pounds...about what a downsized '77-79 Deville would weigh. I think the Dodge Diplomat/Chrysler LeBaron, which came out in mid-1977, might have had 15" rims standard, but I can't remember. They were about as long as a Seville, but wider and not nearly as smoothly styled.

There was an episode of "Mama's Family", where daughter Ellen (Betty White) had a Seville like that. I think it was even that same shade of pale, minty green. I used to think it was white, but looking at it on crisper satellite tv, it looks like it's green, but just washed out as it was in bright sunlight.

texases

It was too bad the best Lincoln could come up with to compete with the Seville was this:


edit - here's a Seville w/o the vinyl -

andre1969

I've heard that the best thing about a Versailles is that it has a 9-inch rear-end that's nice and sturdy, and will bolt up easily to a Fox-bodied Mustang.

Cadillac and Lincoln seemed to go different routes with their small premium car. The Seville was smooth, understated, and almost futuristic for that time. The Versailles, in contrast, was more of a neoclassic throwback, with just about every 70's cliche thrown on.

I think GM had a better platform to start with, though. The 1975 Nova was very smooth, clean, and modern looking for the time. In fact, it's often been dubbed the "European" Nova. In contrast, the Granada was really just a tarted up Maverick, which itself supposedly carried over a lot from the old Falcon. Trying to take something originally intended to be a 2500 pound car and turning it into a 4000 lb flagship has got to be a lot harder than doing it to something that started off at around 3400 pounds to begin with.

Mr_Shiftright

Gee...how to design a car with a pencil and a ruler.

texases

You forgot the compass!

Mr_Shiftright

You mean FORD forget the compass. There's not a curve in that car. It's made of leggo blocks--LOL!

it's soooooo bad. Reminds me of the worst of the 40s in the lack of imagination.

texases

The phrase "puttin' lipstick on a pig" comes to mind...

Mr_Shiftright

I actually had a pet pig once in Colorado. She was far more aerodynamic, prettier and could easily kick my dog's butt.

I miss that pig...sigh....

oregonboy

Probably smarter and more opinionated as well. :P

Gee, so many Cadillacs. It's just too much for my poor heart. I need a swig of Geritol. :sick:

james

Mr_Shiftright

For anyone participating in a Cadillac topic, I am trained in CPR, so go for it!

lemko

...like the '75 except mine was silver with a dark blue top and dark blue leather interior. I sold it to a friend of my Dad's and he pretty much trashed the car.

fintail

That's a nice color and trim (no vinyl top) for that Seville. It must have put the rest of the lineup to shame in 1975, looks a decade newer.

Were they available with any kind of wheel or something that wasn't a fake wire wheel or a blingy hubcap?

texases

Were they available with any kind of wheel or something that wasn't a fake wire wheel or a blingy hubcap?

Funny you ask - I wanted one w/o the vinyl and with the regular hub cap, couldn't find it. Here's one with the regular hubcap (better than the fake wire wheels, IMHO):

andre1969

do look better with the regular hubcaps, but I think even the wire wheels are okay on them. I like the way the wire wheels have a flattened look to them, versus the way they tend to stick out on many other cars, and draw attention to the fact that they're just hubcaps.

I wonder if a first-gen Seville would be hard to live with, as a daily driver today? I've heard they were prone to electrical failures, but back then Consumer Reports and such used to say that about ANY luxury car that was fully equipped with power assists. I wonder it it would be any worse than, say, my '79 New Yorker? The only thing I'd worry about, I guess, is that these cars are pretty tight under the hood, and an Olds 350 is a bit bulkier than a Chevy smallblock, so serviceability might be a bit awkward. I wonder how reliable the fuel injection on these cars was?

texases

I have no first-hand knowledge, but would be concerned on the (multi-port, pretty advanced!) electronic fuel injection. Wasn't it unique (read - hard to find parts) to the Seville?

andre1969

I have no first-hand knowledge, but would be concerned on the (multi-port, pretty advanced!) electronic fuel injection. Wasn't it unique (read - hard to find parts) to the Seville?

Yeah, the fuel injection probably would be a hard thing to find replacement parts for. I wonder how hard it would be to convert it to a carburetor? When Chrysler tried, with miserable failure, to convert the 318 to fuel injection for the '81-83 Imperial, it was common for the service departments to convert them to 2-bbl carbs when the FI started acting up.

texases

I wonder how hard it would be to convert it to a carburetor?

Good question - it's an Olds block, so you'd think it wouldn't be too hard, but who know what else they monkeyed with that would make that conversion difficult...

xwesx

Hmm... is it even worth saving? I think it is in good enough shape that it would make a unique driver for someone for a few more years until it fell apart. I can see someone going overboard with it though and try to make more of it than they should.

xwesx

A friend of mine had a '69 Eldorado identical to that, save for it was dark blue (interior and exterior). "Best color combination." Says who? The market? Eech. White cars look bland.

stevedebi

"http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1975-CADILLAC-4DR-MUSEUM-PIECE-ONLY-411-ORIGINAL- -- MILES_W0QQitemZ190157094947QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6146QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZV- - iewItem"

Did you notice the engine braces from the radiator to the engine wells, then to the firewall? Man, that thing must have flexed a lot...

Mr_Shiftright

Mid 70s Cadillacs were real flexi-flyers. You have to drive one to believe it. The converts are even worse. I guess they just made 'em too big and too cheap....dunno....

oregonboy

at least 2x the original cost
NOT an 850 Coupe

It's the one to have, but this would have to be incredibly nice to justify the price
"original XAS spare"

I think that you could do worse for $3500
alfa

ouch, my eyes!
alfa2

So why sell it on Craigslist?
"in this same Condition sells on ebay from $11,000-$17,000"

the wheels look too big
pony muscle

james

qbrozen

choke! gasp! gag!

Buyer just purchased the car he/she will be buried in ... literally.

texases

The 2002tii has one strike already: "Upgrades and options include chromed factory alloys"

Not my idea of an "upgrade"! A 2002 is one of the last cars I'd want to have chromed wheels.

benjaminh

It's too expensive, but otherwise a very nice looking car...