Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

I think a wagon might weigh a little more than that, but the mileage sounds relatively accurate. Maybe up to 23 or so on the highway, but nothing more.

stickguy

where abouts in North Jersey is it? Must be way up if it is 90 minutes from you.

Now if it was in SJ, I would wander over to look at it myself!

qbrozen

Elmwood Park, which I believe is north of Passaic.

fintail

I could see Andre or lemko in this

andre1969

I like that '71 Caprice. However, I don't believe for a second that the 402 big-block is really worth a 35% premium over the base engine! Especially in a 4-door hardtop. You could get a 6-cyl in the Biscayne/Bel Air, and I think the Impala as well, but IIRC the Caprice came standard with a 255 hp (165 net) 350-2bbl. Next step up was a "400 Turbo-Fire", with 170 hp net (forget the gross rating). Then there was the "400 Turbo-Jet", which was the 402 big-block, 210 hp net. At the top of the heap was a 270 hp net 454 big-block.

Now I could see the 454 commanding a pretty hefty premium. Consumer Reports tested a '71 or so Caprice with that engine and got 0-60 in around 8.7 seconds, so I'm sure MT or C&D would get it down to around 8. CR also tested a '72 Impala with the 350-2bbl, and 0-60 was around 12 seconds. I don't think the 400 was much faster off the line, but was torquier so it would be better for trailering, carrying a full load up a steep hill, etc. I don't think I've ever seen a test of a 402. I'm sure it would be quicker enough over a 350/400 to make it more fun, but not enough for a 35% premium! Maybe 35% over a 6-cyl! Those probably did 0-60 in about two seasons.

fintail

A 402 is kind of an oddball engine anyway, right?

I think that original year of big car design looks amazingly clean compared to how it got fussy and pimpy a few years later. Especially the passenger side shot in the link from the ad.

andre1969

A 402 is kind of an oddball engine anyway, right?

Yeah, the 402 was a slightly enlarged 396. They used to make high-output versions of the 396, but I don't think they ever did with the 402, because by that time they had the 454. And for some reason, there never was a 402 badge. In the midsized cars they still called it the 396, while the big cars called it the 400 "Turbo-Jet", as opposed to the "Turbo-Fire", which was the siamesed smallblock 400.

The '71 big Chevy was a handsome car. I think the '72 looked even better, which is pretty rare for most designs...usually they get fussier and more contrived as the years go by. The earlier models almost look sporty for such a big car.

fintail

Hyper W201

Looks good, but something seems odd, and not just the lowline hubcaps

Slow Porsche

fintail

I remember when I was 19 or so a local Chevy lot had a pristine 65 Caprice sedan with a 396 - it was silver and dark grey two tone I think, with a brocade interior. It was really minty, they wanted something like 6K for it I think, and it didn't stick around long.

That sedan does have a fairly smooth look. GM was on top of the big car game then, for sure.

qbrozen

hmmmm... i wonder why that cougar is hunched in the rear and raised in the front.(??) I mean, its not just one or the other, but both. As if a floorjack is under there pushing up on the front.

jlflemmons

or the engine is in the trunk.

gsemike

This will top anything you see today

qbrozen

i was thinking the engine was removed altogether, but i like your idea better.

qbrozen

that is sweet!
Dibs!!!

andre1969

That Omega just goes so strongly against everything that is right and just and tasteful. And for that very reason, I sorta like it!

lemko

I really liked the 1971 Chevrolet. It sort of resembles a 1969 Cadillac from the front - my all-time favorite car.

jlflemmons

speechless. I am speechless.

I did like the nice touch of the red wire coiled around the parking brake pedal.

Folks who could even conceive of such an atrocity really make me nervous.

"HEY BUBBA, LOOKY HERE!"

lemko

Dang! That Omega reminds me of a picture I drew in high school of an Aries K-car with a 426 Hemi and a big blower through the hood!

Yeesh! Wait a minute! Isn't that the original tranverse V-6 under the hood?

andre1969

My Dad had a used '65 Impala SS396 with a 4-speed, in the 425 hp setup, that he bought sometime after he got out of the Army back in the late 60's. It would probably be worth something today, I'd imagine, but back then it was just a used car. Sadly, it threw a rod on a lonely country road one Saturday night in 1971, and Dad just abandoned it!

andre1969

Dang! That Omega reminds me of a picture I drew in high school of an Aries K-car with a 426 Hemi and a big blower through the hood!

When Chrysler started putting the Mistubishi 2.6 4-cyl in those K-cars, they actually had the nerve to put a badge on the fender that said "Hemi 2.6"!

lemko

Geeze, that's almost as tasteless as the Oldsmobile Quad-442 that would later appear.

qbrozen

So I just made an appointment to go check out that 59k-mile TE. Lord help me!

fintail

Keep an eye out for front end noises, harsh shifting (for a MB, which means much harsher than a domestic car), and any leaks in the engine. Also, any valve clatter or ticking in the engine is a sign of excess wear. I guess this is pretty much like most cars.

fintail

I would assume the Caprice sedan I remember would have had the lower spec 396 - but still not a bad engine to have, no doubt. That car will always stick in my mind, it was a pretty classy old beast for a Chevy, almost more like a small Caddy. If I had the spare money at the time (not that I really do now either), I should have bought it - it really was pristine, and I can be picky.

qbrozen

yup. sounds pretty standard.

I guess the areas I need to be careful of specific to the benz are the added electricals, right? what is the deal with the rear suspension? There is an air pump for it? Is that in the engine compartment? If it is bad, will it just be sagging? or is there something else to look for?

fintail

Oh yeah I forgot, I think the wagons do have self leveling rear suspension, and it is air controlled I do believe. It should be squatting if it is dead , but I don't think they fail terribly often.

About electricals, window switches and regulators are common problems, and have been so on MB for many generations of cars. Nothing else really comes to mind as being a huge issue, although anything can happen at this age.

My W126 had the same engine as this car...it had two issues during the time I owned it. Some part of the FI leaked and had to be replaced, and an electrical component failed (but that was easy to fix and I changed it myself - I forget what it was called). Other than that, the engine was smooth and powerful at nearly 200K.

Even though it is low mileage, I would want to know the tranny has been serviced, too. If you know of any decent MB shops near you, an inspection would not be a bad investment, before you sink several grand into the purchase.

I think there are W124 buyers guides online, too.

andre1969

Just out of curiosity, I pulled up a '65 Chevy brochure from TOCMP. Looks like the "low output" 396 had 325 hp, while the high-output version had 425. The 425 hp version was only offered with a 4-speed or 3-speed fully synchronized stick. I'm guessing that must have been quite a beast.

Even with the 325 hp version, I'm sure it would be pretty quick though.

bumpy

Wait a minute! Isn't that the original tranverse V-6 under the hood?

Yes it is. I'd recognize that POS anywhere. The red paint on the valve covers was NOT stock.

fintail

I think my 66 Galaxie with a 390 put out about the same hp as that lower spec 396. It was not slow by any means...well, it could burn rubber pretty well. Also drank gas like it was water, and had perpetual carb problems. What a first car.

fintail

Ah now I remember the electrical issue I had - a relay failed. It was easy to tell something was up, as the idiot lights were all on, and the car ran like only 3 or 4 cylinders were firing. It was an easy fix, and apparently is not an uncommon problem on the M103.

qbrozen

thanks fin. I'm just going to have to go with my personal inspection on this one. It is over an hour away, so there's no way I know a shop near there (not that i know one near home, either).

fintail

Good luck. I hope that it is either so good that you jump on it, or so crap that you run away.

qbrozen

we ran away.

Apparently, "perfect" means "needs new paint, interior wood is all decayed and cracked, stereo is missing, and odometer has been rolled back."

Oh sure, he claims the miles are correct and original, but since he isn't the original owner, I don't see how he can possibly make that claim. Our 2-year-older bimmer with 2.5 times the miles is in better condition.

Ugh. What a waste of a Saturday morning.

Mr_Shiftright

You should leave feedback in another ad so that others don't waste their time.

fintail

I had a bad feeling about it. At least the decision was easy.

Mr_Shiftright

There are so many "beater Benzes" out there, it's not funny.

If the mileage was "original" then they were a mighty hard 59K, weren't they?

fintail

I bet those old mechanical odometers aren't hard to modify or simply replace.

Yeah, the MB ranks are like a junkyard once the cars hit 10-15 years old. Makes me feel better about my cars - my 126 was honest, and my fintail, while not a concours example, is at least usable.

fintail

If you don't like reliability, here's the car for you

qbrozen

I bet those old mechanical odometers aren't hard to modify or simply replace.

They aren't. And, really, I'm surprised at what I've seen/heard of people doing to even modern cars. And I tried to have this conversation with the seller's father (i guess dad lives with son or vice versa. son is the "dealer" and father helps out.). He is a retired dealership employee (didn't really gather what he did there). He just wouldn't hear of it. Those miles are original, you can't mess with odometers. end of story. He mentioned carfax, I mentioned it isn't reliable, especially with a car of this age. on and on. I was very polite and just digressed.

I dunno about posting an ad. I mean, in the end, he is only hurting himself and his "dealership" by getting folks to come see the car(s) under false pretenses.

fintail

Of course you can always replace an odometer or an entire instrument cluster. Wear and tear is hard to hide, even if you replace seats or pedals - something will show wear. I had a bad feeling about that thing...at least it was an easy decision. The worst are cars you can't quite figure out.

fintail

Gas prices are rising again, so diesel greed is back

Another case of rare, but nobody cares (although I will admit this is the nicest one of these I have seen in a long time)

Mr_Shiftright

A 300D with 272,000 miles on it for $11,000? HAHAHHAHAHAHA....

Must be a charter member of a local First Amendment Rights group.

The part about how this mileage is "low" for this car is also very amusing. Go find one with this incredible number of miles that hasn't had head or bottom end or injection work, I dare you, or that doesn't smoke and rattle like an old washing machine filled with walnuts.

I'd say $4,500 is all the money for one of these old mosquitos-foggers if it's in top shape all 'round. Otherwise, buy a VW TDI and be way happier.

Jaguar XJ6C -- exactly right. It is indeed rare and nobody cares. Same price as a nice 4-door, maybe 20% bonus. His asking price is optimistic. I'd guess if the car was a real sweetheart upside, inside and downside, maybe $7,500 is an offer he should definitely not refuse. Me personally? $5,000 is more than generous. These are pretty bad cars but they look pretty.

One thing IS rare about this car---the 4-door looks better than the coupe IMO. You don't see that too often.

texases

XJ6C - I won't debate you on the looks (oops, guess I just did :P ) but I have one question - green leather? Almost as bad as that purple thing we saw a few weeks ago...

qbrozen

wow. ya know, that may be the ugliest Jag I've ever seen. The black top just doesn't work for me. And those seats? ugh!

Mr_Shiftright

Two familiar smells in any XJ6 from that era---gasoline and mildew.

qbrozen

Hmmm... I think I remember this.
Wasn't that a badge engineering job that was also the Saturn Satan and Chevy Hellfire?

qbrozen

Doesn't look all that bad.

bumpy

One would hope "tony" knows BMW swaps backwards and forwards.

Andre's new old truck, part 432

What a mess...

Drive it until it falls apart.

The barn must have been in a swamp.

"puts out a cloud of white smoke when you first start it up"

qbrozen

on that charger: "better than money in the bank!"
hmmmm... so why wouldn't you keep it? I'd be happy to take your money off your hands instead of the car.

RX7: I'd rather have an older N/A, personally.

hpmctorque

"...Go find one with this incredible number of miles that hasn't had head or bottom end or injection work, I dare you, or that doesn't smoke and rattle like an old washing machine filled with walnuts."

One of the reasons people bought Mercedes diesels in the '60s, '70s, and '80s was for durability, but now you can buy a Honda Accord 4 cylinder, new or used, for example, that delivers comparable fuel economy, and will go 272,000 miles on the original engine. Sure, you don't have the prestige factor or the timeless styling of the Benz, or the same driving experience, for that matter, but in exchange you get better reliability and lower operating costs. I guess it's called different strokes for different folks, but my point is, there are several alternatives to the Mercedes diesel today for those shopping for a car that features a long life.

Want to get closer to a Benz 300 in terms of luxury and prestige, then buy a late '90s-early '00 Acura TL. I know this notion is probably out of place in this discussion, and is likely to get roundly booed, and maybe deservedly so, but since the thought has been swirling around in my head, I thought I'd express it. Okay, I'm waiting to get peppered with rotten tomatoes.