Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's the 1996 Impala SS that everyone wants...it has a center console shift, not a column shifter.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    But its the purple one... :cry:
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,699
    My kids liked that double decker bus. If he'd have called it the Harry Potter special he might have been able to sell it for a bit more...
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2025 Subaru Outback (wife's), 2025 blue Outback (grown kid 1), 2018 Honda CR-V EX (grown kid 2)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Better gas mileage AND more horsepower? Gee, silly me, I thought the laws of physics also applied in his home town.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,154
    And what is "Door Vacuum System (automatically vacuuming doors and trunk when slowly closed)" - some sort of auto closing system? What's with 'vacuum' - a Hoover option?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes it SUCKS your door closed. Of course a few cars have been crushed this way when the system malfunctioned.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,429
    Must have been considered very unusual when new

    That front wheel looks weird
    Probably a POS

    lost title but have old owners name
    This isn't exactly the last IROC on Earth. Why would you give this guy 1500 for this headache

    I so want to beleive his story because this looks sweet except for that pesky salvage title I guess that alot a 5 series ge totalled for minor sheetmetal damage

    Looks OK in the pics

    It's over Johnny

    I guess he reached his breaking point as far as dumping money into this
    How much do you think those heads cost?

    It's really over Johnny

    The alleaged book value is a pipe dream
    If you happen to love this car, this might be alright
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    That '75 Grand Ville wouldn't be too bad, except for those awful rims. Ironically, I just picked up a set of Pontiac Rally 2 rims at Carlisle that would make all that car's problems go away. But they're going on my '67 Catalina convertible. I can finally upgrade that thing to 15" tires now. Yay!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Geez, time to close the coffin on a couple of those cars, especially the BMW that needs a "front end". That's an understatement.

    The 528 is way overpriced for a '97 with a salvage title. You can buy a non-salvage one for less than that. Miles are good, that's true, but so what? Salvage means Kiss of Death in the marketplace.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    I kinda like that '76 Grand Prix, but unless it looks absolutely gorgeous in person, I'm not seeing $7000 there. As it is, with just a 350-2bbl and non-working a/c, I don't really see anything more than my '76 LeMans, a car with similar miles that I paid $3000 for.

    Now the bucket seats and a floor shifter are a bonus. I guess if the a/c worked, and it was a well-optioned model with power windows and a power seat (unlikely, as I think power bucket seats were rare back then), and if it had a 455-4bbl, or even the 400, I might be tempted to go to $7K.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Is this your Delusional Sellers Medley? :P

    Buick Somerset Regal Deluxe Elegante Supremo El Fantasico:

    don't you just love those bordello interiors? It looks like a Vegas gambler's underground liar.

    Mercedes 450SL: For the sake of accuracy, the actual top speed of that car is a theoretical 124 mph, given the vacuum of outer space and the chance of finding a long flat road out there. In the real world, I'd guess that at about 118 mph the car would send a message: "Please stop this. It hurts!" Euro cars would probably do an honest 135 on the Autobahn I'd guess.

    Jaguar 420G: Yeah, it's comparable to a Rolls Royce in that it's impossible to sell, horrendously expensive to fix, and depreciating like a cobblestone dropped from a lighthouse.
    Real Value? $10,000 would be very very generous offer.

    Vauxhall: Kinda charming, price is fine, why not?

    Sport Satellite: Not sure what 'sport' this car represents (WWC? Sumo wrestling? Shot put?) but the price seems fair enough, especially by the square yard.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,429
    My sister had one. It was all right enough. I was pretty impressed that my sister's had power seat which was unusual in a car of that size then. Maybe maybe maybe it's worth 2500
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    I just looked it up, and it looks like with the Sport Satellite, you got the 318-2bbl V-8 standard. It was priced about $100 more than the regular Satellite, which had a 225-1bbl slant six. Base price for the 4-door was around $3100 with the six, $3200 with the V-8.

    I actually wouldn't mind something like that Sport Satellite, if it's in good condition, to use as a daily driver.

    As for that Somerset Regal, in an odd sort of way, I kind of like those. But not for $5K! They had really nice, cushy interiors that looked luxurious when new, but often, over the long haul, that cheap looking Playskool/Fisher-Price quality stuff really does hold up longer. Those felts tend to thin out and peel off, and the soft-touch plastics crack, and the dashboards warp....
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    Those Somerset Regals were actually pretty well-equipped for that time. They were originally conceived in an era when everybody thought scarce, $3.00 per gallon gas would be the norm, so this was actually supposed to be the new Regal for 1985! The Calais would have been the new Cutlass Supreme and the Grand Am would have been the new Grand Prix. I dunno if they were planning for a Monte Carlo version or not. I have a feeling they weren't, because Chevy never got a version of this car, although the Corsica/Beretta of 1987 were built on the same N-body. Also, when the Monte Carlo finally did get dropped after a very short 1988 run, it really didn't get a direct replacement. The closest thing, I guess, would be the Lumina coupe from 1990, but it could also be argued that the Lumina replaced the Celebrity.

    Still, in 1985, a power seat would've been somewhat rare even on a Cutlass Supreme/Regal/et al, unless you got a Brougham/Limited trim level. And even then, it was an option.

    Arrogantly enough, GM tried to position these N-body coupes as upscale, BMW contenders in 1985. I don't think very many people fell for it though, although for small domestic coupes they were pretty nice for the time.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,628
    I think the Monte wasn't really replaced until the second Lumina coupe of 1995 - not just in name, it even looked a little more proper. The first Lumina coupe was indeed a Celebrity replacement. I never cared for the Lumina, especially the first - very cheap and some had a horrible exhaust note. Ugly, too.

    The Ciera we had when I was a kid had a pretty plush velour interior, but luckily it was a beige/gold kind of color, so it was tolerable. Red really looks pimpy in that material, and dark blue looks the same.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well BMW tried to push the 320i as upscale, so arrogance worked both ways. :P
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I would argue that BMW's arrogance exceeded GM's, in that the Regals/Calais (plural spelling?)/Grand Ams were reasonably priced, as were replacement parts. The 320i was premium priced, and maintenance and repairs were expensive.

    I had a '86 Grand Am 4 cylinder/5 speed, with the handling package. It gave me 188,000 miles of low maintenance service, over 14 years, before it blew the head gasket. By that time it didn't owe me anything, particularly since a couple of weeks before the head gasket went a friend of the teenager who lived across the street backed into the left side of my car. The Grand Am rode and handled well. It's weakest point was the farm tractor-like Iron Duke engine. It sounded and performed little better than a '80s diesel.

    The Quad 4 could have been the answer to the prayers of the owners of these GM cars, if it hadn't been for the disastrous head gasket problems these engines had. The Quad 4 was powerful and economical, but, in what we all know to be typical of GM for that period, it introduced the new engine before it was fully developed.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes but the BMW could stop and steer and was fun to drive. Not any better a car though, just manageable at speeds and fairly agile. Totally different buyers, living on planets not even in the same galaxy--neither planet is for me, by the way :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    what is so "bad" about a BMW 320, compared to say, a 318? As I recall, it was around 1985 that the 318 suddenly became all the rage, the ultimate yuppie car.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    both equally on shiftright's S list, the 318 and 320.

    My main gripe is that it was RIDICULOUSLY overpriced...it was basically a GOUGE and the fools fell for it.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    The only thing that Jag has in common with a Rolls-Royce is the cost to repair and maintain it.
  • danf5danf5 Member Posts: 38
    Well, the original 3 series coupe that replaced the 1602/2002 was prone to spinning spontaneously on wet surfaces. When it was introduced I read Motor and Autosport regularly, both reported a number of apparently inexplicable motorway crashes.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It was a much better riding car than a 2002 and far more sophisticated but with that list price and all those teething problems (and history has judged the car badly in terms of current values), I don't think there were that many happy campers.

    Fortunately, the 6 cylinder 325 came out and a legend was born.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    That '76 Omega is really sad. Take off those awful wheels though, and put some Olds Rallyes on, and it might make a decent used car for around $1000-1500 I'd guess. I wonder what engine it has in it? Probably something sucky like a Buick 231 or Chevy 250, or that tiny Olds 260 V-8. I know you could still get a 350 in the Chevy Nova by this time, but I wonder if you could get a 350 in the Omega? Seems like most of these just had, at best, a 305.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,429
    Good move putting on brand new 22s 3 days ago and then not having money for tuition
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    I don't usually comment on grammar, but the language in that add makes me wonder just what kind of tuition is being discussed.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    The seller's name is Pedro. English may not be his first language. :)
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    You have to be kidding. Assuming the tires and wheels don't burn your fingers when you touch them, Pedro could have covered a bit of tuition with the car as was, and sold it for about what he will probably end up getting for it with all the cash infusion.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Member Posts: 1,650
    Okay, a show of hands... who knows what a Jowett is?
    1958 Jupiter

    james
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I'm almost certain that the top engine option for the Omega was the 350 Rocket, not the 350 Chevy small block. I think the base engine was the 250 c.i. Chevy I-6, and the first of two upgrades was the 260 Rocket.

    The Omega was a nimble handler, with good road holding characteristics, for its day. It also featured above average styling, in my opinion. A drawback was limited rear seat leg room, for its size...similar to the Contour/Mystique, 20 years later.

    Looking back, I think the Omega was a better choice than the Audi 5000 of that period.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    The Omega was a nimble handler, with good road holding characteristics, for its day. It also featured above average styling, in my opinion. A drawback was limited rear seat leg room, for its size...similar to the Contour/Mystique, 20 years later.

    Yeah, I've heard that those '75-79 GM X-cars, in general, are good handlers for the era. GM offered a Nova police package up through 1978 that was a formidable car. I've heard that Chrysler's biggest break in what was then known as the "compact" police car market was when GM decided to switch the police package from the Nova to the Malibu in 1979. Seems to me that, being a more modern, slightly smaller, lighter, and theoretically more nimble car, the Malibu should have been a better all around performer than the Nova. But police tests did not bear that out, and the 1979 Volare walked the Malibu like a dog.

    It's quite possible though, that GM did some tampering with the 350 for 1979 that kept hp the same, at 170, but made real-world performance suffer? So if the Chevy police package had stayed on the Nova, it may have been slower for 1979, anyway?

    There was a '77 Omega Brougham 4-door sedan for sale at a local park-and-sell lot, years ago. I remember sitting behind the wheel of it, to see how it felt. Legroom was definitely tighter, both front and rear, than something like a Dart or Volare. The deficiency wasn't too noticeable up front, but in the back, with my long legs, I could tell a huge difference. Another thing I didn't like about the Omega was that I could actually reach out and touch the base of the windshield without leaning forward. That made it feel a bit claustrophobic to me. And that must be a GM thing of that era, because after I bought my '76 LeMans, a midsize, I discovered that in the position I have my steering wheel tilted, my fingers will hit the windshield if I simply "palm" the steering wheel instead of grip it.

    Style wise, I think all of GM's '75-79 X-cars were pretty good looking, although the Phoenix version, which came out in 1977 I think, seemed a bit awkward with the square headlights and the hint of a beak. It made the car look a bit like a '78-80 LeMans. I wonder if that hurt LeMans sales, with a much cheaper car looking so much like it?
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    I bought a brand new, special ordered, 1980 Omega Brogham 2dr notchback with the 4cyl and 4spd stick. Fourth gear was an overdrive. The thing that dumbfounded me right off the bat was that the car was spooky quiet on the highway. I mean, even by today's standard, that little bugger was so quiet it was eerie. No wind noise, no engine noise, no road noise, just super quiet. It could be that since it was the Brogham edition it had additional sound deadening, but it sure was nice as a 75 mile round trip commuter.

    On the down side, it had an air pump with the air distribution tubes to the exhaust manifold. It would burn through a set of those tubes in less than 20k miles. I think I replaced them three times before getting rid of the car.
  • steine13steine13 Member Posts: 2,825
    "Something for all those enthusiasts of 80s Buicks"

    You mean, like, both of them?

    -Mathias
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,628
    Yep, lemko and someone else (I don't know if even Andre cares for them)
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Oh dude I love the T-type LeSabers. I always wanted to swap in a series II or series III Supercharged 3800 into one of them.

    I'd pay 800 for that car.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    I'm normally not crazy about those FWD LeSabres, but I do think the coupe is pretty sharp looking, especially the T-type. Years ago, there was a lady here at work whose husband had a 1986 Olds 88 coupe. It was black and had alloy wheels on it, but I can't remember if Olds had a version of the T-type or not. Maybe it was an LSS or something? It was a sharp looking car, too.

    I think these downsized FWD C/H bodies were okay, but IMO they weren't truly big cars. But then, I wonder if people said the same thing about a newly-downsized '77 LeSabre compared to a '77 Newport or '77 Marquis! However, while a downsized '77 GM car actually gave up very little room (actually gained in some dimensions) compared to those pre-downsized mastodons, these FWD models lost about 1/4 of their trunk volume (down to around 15-16 from 20-21 cubic feet) and a few inches of shoulder room (~58-59" compared to ~61-62"). They were still big enough to "technically" be a full-sized car in the way that an Impala, 2000 Taurus, Intrepid, or '08 Accord is, but they were really closer in interior volume to something like a Regal/Cutlass sedan than they were a RWD LeSabre or Delta.

    I think they probably would have been better replacements for those RWD intermediate sedans, as they were a more substantial car than the first attempt at replacing those cars (Celebrity, Ciera, et al) had been. As full-sized cars though, they just didn't quite cut it, and they probably sent a few buyers over to the Caprice, which suddenly sprouted a few new upper trim levels, probably to satisfy buyers who would have otherwise gone for a RWD LeSabre, Delta, or even Electra or 98. I imagine a few buyers jumped ship to the Grand Marquis and Crown Vic, too.

    That downsized C-body LeSabre was pretty good for Buick, though. It maintained consistent sales right up through the end, and for the most part stayed as popular as the older RWD models. For some reason though, the downsized 88 didn't do as well for Olds. Deltas were a smash hit for Olds from 1977-85, but the '86+ style never saw the same level of popularity. Maybe Olds started confusing buyers by suddenly changing their marketing from "The family car that didn't forget the family", and suddenly it was "not your Father's Oldsmobile"?
  • fortee9erfortee9er Member Posts: 134
    I am wary of any GM FWD car after an experience I had with a 1989 Pontiac 6000 SE which dumped all its transmission fluid out of the driver's side drive shaft. The diagnosis was that a plastic seal costing $.50 had failed and it would cost $1,200.00 to replace. The car was in good condition with @ 60k miles when I sold it to a neighbor for $600. This car had been purchased new by my father and he hated the car and GM because of all the problems he had experienced. When he had enough he switched allegiance to Ford and bought a new Grand Marquis and parked the Pontiac until I could get it.
    I drove the car from Ft. Lauderdale, Fla to Houston, TX with my wife and the three kids plus all the luggage, a/c on all the time and didn't slow much under 70 mph and averaged 30 mpg for the trip which I thought was great (I still do!).
  • jlflemmonsjlflemmons Member Posts: 2,242
    GM had problems of their own with transaxles, but Mopar had to win the prize. To this day, when looking at any Chrysler FWD product with more that 50K, your first question should be, "Has the transmission been rebuilt/replaced?". If the answer is no, deduct $1800 from the price offered because chances are good that you will be rebuilding or replacing the tranny before 80K.

    Dad has a pampered Voyager with 128K. It is on its 3rd tranny. With the exception of an '86(?) model he had with a 3spd auto, every Voyager he has owned has had at least one tranny replacement. The only reason he drives these things is because they are easy to get in and out of.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    "It's quite possible though, that GM did some tampering with the 350 for 1979 that kept hp the same, at 170, but made real-world performance suffer? So if the Chevy police package had stayed on the Nova, it may have been slower for 1979, anyway?"

    While the '78-'83 Malibu was indeed "...a more modern, slightly smaller, lighter, and theoretically more nimble car..." than the '73-'77 Malibu, I believe it was heavier than the '75-'79 X-cars. If this is correct, that would explain why the same engine would have resulted in a decrease in performance between the '79 Nova and Malibu. That said, the '78-?? generation GM RWD intermediates represented a significant improvement over their '73-'77 counterparts, in terms of handling, space efficiency, and fuel economy. They were also generally better than the similar size, albeit slightly smaller, X-cars. For example, the X-cars had crude rear leaf rear springs, if memory serves me correctly, whereas the intermediates had coil springs. The coil springs delivered a better ride and handling proposition than the leaf springs. Also, the leaf springs tended to sag. Often one side sagged more than the other, which made the car go down the road crooked.

    Andre, are you going to display any of your cars at the upcoming Rockville Classic Car Show?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    Andre, are you going to display any of your cars at the upcoming Rockville Classic Car Show?

    Wow, I'm glad you said something...I forgot all about that show! Yeah, I'm going to have my '76 LeMans there. I've been getting really absent-minded lately...totally forgot about a training course I was supposed to go to today. Oops! :blush:

    Here's a pic of the LeMans when I had it there last year. So if you come out to the show, stop by and say hi!

    Those downsized Malibus were actually a bit lighter than a Nova, maybe 200-300 pounds I'm guessing? I've seen 4-door V-8 Novas listed around 3400-3500 pounds, while I think a V-8 Malibu was more like 3100-3200. I dunno if the THM200 tranny is much lighter than the THM350, but that may have been part of the weight savings. Novas all got the 350 tranny, even 6-cyl models, while the Malibu almost always got the 200 tranny. I'd imagine a copcar model would have had the 350 tranny though!

    And yeah, the X-cars did still use leaf springs.

    Another thing I just thought of...I wonder if the Nova copcar simply used more agressive gearing than the Malibu? GM started slipping some obscenely tall ratios in some of their later cars, and it's possible that they did that with the Malibu...even a copcar version? And for some reason I'm picturing the Nova copcar as having 15" rims, versus 14" for the Malibu, so that might have had something to do with the handling?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    The V8 Malibu did indeed weigh around 3100-3200, because I recall that my '78 LeMans V8 weighed ~3200. I just assumed that the slightly smaller Nova was lighter, but, as the saying goes, one should never assume, or something like that.

    It seems logical that the THM200 tranny was lighter than the THM350, but that's another assumption. Too bad the intermediates converted to the THM200. In addition to being less rugged, the THM200 didn't shift nearly as crisply as the THM350. The shifting action of the smaller automatic was annoying, irritating, and didn't inspire confidence, so in that respect, and maybe only that respect, the compacts (inside, especially) were better than the intermediates.

    Sure, if I go to the Rockville show, I'll stop by. I generally go every other year, and since I didn't go last year I'll probably go this year.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,103
    Looks like a few cars came close to getting "folded" at Carlisle. Bummer. :sick: Thankfully, nobody got hurt.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    And nothing too valuable or rare. That Electra will need a new quarter panel. the old Chevy looks very repairable as is.
  • stevedebistevedebi Member Posts: 4,098
    "The seller's name is Pedro. English may not be his first language. "

    Yeah, but that IS the language used in college...
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