those little Corolla hardtop coupes. They also made a 2-door hardtop wagon that was really neat. When I was in high school I worked at a vet clinic. There was a college student that worked there who had an '81 hardtop wagon. It's amazing the variety of body styles the Corolla had back then...2- and 4-door sedan, 2-door hardtop, 2-door hardtop wagon, 4-door wagon, and the sporty little hatchback.
A few years ago, I used to see a guy in my neighborhood that used one of those little hardtops to deliver pizzas. Seemed like it was still in pretty good shape.
The Datsun 200SX had a cool looking little hardtop around the same time that had a similar roofline. I also thought those little Dodge Challengers and Plymouth Saporros were kinda neat.
Personally I think the self-appointed "expert" should shut up and mind his own business. He hasn't seen the car and he's passing judgment on another person's ad (and possible integrity) based on some photos. The seller does not claim original mileage anyway, the brake pedal is clearly not "new" and Mercedes seats are not all "leather". Not only that, the car is priced below retail market.
A "collector" of 450SLs?---that's rather pompous, given that it's not a collector's car unless you mean collecting them in your back yard.
Well, I've never seen a tex-interior 107 - the bolsters are leather, but I guess wear could be based on the size of the driver. My 126 had only slight bolster wear at 182K , and that brake pedal does seem to not support the mileage of the car. I think it's a car that might not actually have a mileage issue, but has sat in the sun too long, hence the interior fade, dash cover (what's under there?) and paint that looks worse the more I look at it - a mediocre repaint. But it's still better looking than the average 450SL, a model I see as a beater often these days.
The mileage is stated in the ad title, I would say it's implied to be original. And it could be.
The collector thing is funny though...a claimed fintail collector would have more credibility.
that "collector" sure did get his panties in an uproar! FWIW, one of my co-workers bought a 450SL back in 2000. It was either a '73 or '74. He way overpaid on it, I'm sure...something like $15,000. I drove it one day because he said his wife thought it was doing something funny...I forget what now. But I remember looking at the odometer, which read around 182,000 miles and asking him "Is that METRIC?!" He said no, it was miles. I was shocked on two accounts. First, that he paid that much for something with that many miles on it. But secondly, how solid the car felt and how nice it still looked. It did have a bit of rust in the doorjamb, where the rocker meets the quarter I think (been awhile now) but that was about it.
Now that I look through those pictures though, the car DOES look like a repaint. I think one giveaway is how while the paint is nice and shiny, if you look at the reflections in it, they have kind of a blurry, fuzzy look. And the main thing that bothers me about the interior is that it's done that thing that GM cars of the 70's tended to do, where as they aged, even if you took care of them, the different materials would fade at different rates, so eventually you'd eventually end up with 5 or 6 interior colors where originally you only had one! It's really noticeable with the center console, which has almost a pinkish hue to it. Either it's just faded to that color, or it's been replaced, pulled out of another car that faded a bit differently.
I think they're pretty cars, but aren't you better off getting the 560SL?
Personally I think the self-appointed "expert" should shut up and mind his own business. He hasn't seen the car and he's passing judgment on another person's ad (and possible integrity) based on some photos.
I'd agree with you, except for "NO rust. Very clean!"
At that point, the guy is fair game. I just ran through the pictures, but I also saw the rust on the lid... and if it's rusty there, what do you think the lower corners of the doors look like? They are conveniently not shown in the pictures.
Our 'expert' might have phrased things a little differently, but he has a point. Esp. on a place like Craig's list, which caters to the amateur. I didn't see the overspray on the muffler until I looked for it...but I think he's right.
It's just nit-picking on an old car. You want a new Mercedes, go pay for it, is my advice to the "expert".
He reminds me of the type of person who bad-mouths a movie without having seen it. Suddenly a "rust stain" becomes rust, and overspray becomes evidence of a complete repaint...I'm surprised he didn't spot accident damage from the photos, or flooding.
Funny how a seller posts a boatload of close up photos and then somebody wants to slam him for "hiding" things!!!
I can't imagine why this photo is only of the front end, but it's cheap anyway, and sounds decent enough, especially with all the replaced parts and that it has 'passed emissions' (Andre, is this your grandmother's car?):
same year, and looks like it's a Limited! Grandma's was gray, though. Sometimes I regret that we got rid of her car, but it was getting old and needing some work, and it was just one car too many! The body was still in good shape, and the engine/drivetrain were still doing great at around 157,000 miles, but it needed exhaust work and was overdue for a LOT of maintenance stuff (tranny service, belts/hoses, coolant flush, tuneup, valve cover gaskets, new tires, and probably a few other things I'm forgetting) and when the brakes went out on it, that was the final straw.
that Malibu is nice (I even like the color combo!) but awfully pricey! Horsepower fluctuated a bit back then, but that 267 probably had 115-125 hp. Tranny is most likely the dreaded THM200C, although in smaller cars with the weaker engines, they usually weren't too bad. These cars are actually pretty popular with the hotrodders, because they're one of the lightest body-on-frame cars built and the engine bay can hold a big block. Still, that price is high. I'd say if it had a 350 (I think it had to be special ordered, but I have seen a few with 'em over the years), and was more loaded-up (power windows/locks, and either a split bench seat or buckets and a console), and just about perfect, I might go that high. But as-is, I dunno. If I had $2500-3000 burning a hole in my pocket, and really wanted it, and had a place for it, I might spring for it. It's not as fast or as well-equipped as my '76 LeMans that I paid $3,000 for, but I'm giving bonus points here for the working, retrofitted a/c and the original paint. That front seat is showing signs of stress though, and if you start using this car on a regular basis, I could see the seams busting pretty quickly. I'd also like to see some pics of the headliner...those 1-piece felt jobs tended to pull loose. Also looks like the "chrome" peeled off the plastic trim strips on the door panels. I know that's a minor thing, but I've always wondered if that stuff can be re-plated? It looks awful once it's peeled off.
Nice looking malibu. Sure it's a bit pricy, but if you want one, probably hard to find another in this nice condition (as described). I actually think this is the best looking domestic of the era, and possibly one of the cleanest american designs ever for a "normal" car. It does sound like it has been all sorted out.
Rambler? Pricey, but some nostalgic person might overpay.
Again, price guidelines are fine, but when you get into rare/oddball cars that are still at the low end of the price scale, it only takes one person that really wants it.
Besides, paying 5K for a 3K malibu or Rambler isn't the end of the world, certainly not as bad as paying 75K for a 30K "muscle" car!
actually, how the heck is that thing registered in the US? I just realized it was a 1979 model, not a '60s something that was potentially legal. WOuld have to see some good paperwork on this one!
who's every bit as nostalgic/lustful for that Malibu as I was for my '76 LeMans jumping the gun and buying it. And honestly, I've seen less desireable Malibus from that era with even HIGHER asking prices! I think about the worst I ever saw as a 1980 sedan with a 229 V-6 and no air conditioning with a $7,000 asking price! FWIW, I think that's around what my Mom paid, out the door, for her 1980 coupe when it was new (with air conditioning!). Now granted, it WAS nice, and only had around 20,000 miles on it, but still!
Eveer drive one of those 60s Ramblers? They are pretty ghastly to push around compared to a GM product. Cheap and noisy basically.
MINI -- yeah, you're right, better watch the paperwork on this one. Just because it's IN the country doesn't mean you can't get into a lot of trouble with this car.
Sometimes what they do with a model of car that has a long production run is to put the modern body on an older frame, and then register it under the older frame #s. This happened all the time with Citroen 2CVs you see in this country. You could do the same with a Mini I would think.
Also people will bring in illegal cars on one year resident visas and then switch paperwork with a US legal car, or even just hand you a foreign title or "papers" for the one year residency.
Or just move to Canada, where anything in sound condition over 15 years old can be brought in. Strangely enough, it hasn't caused chaos, even though overpaid DOT/EPA cronies and egos would have you believe otherwise. Regressive...
Ahh..such fond memories of AMC-the car that NOBODY wanted! My best friend in junior high got a rambler sedan (just like the one on Craigslist) from his grandmother-he hated the thing! he would crash the gears and ride the clutch, and (attempted) to "burn rubber". he couldn't kill the damn thing! what i remember about that old heap-it had an extremely primative electrical system-basically just lights, heater and crappy AM radio-one speaker! the front seats were like a rock and rubeer flooring-no carpeting. it also had vacuum-operated windshiled wipers-they slowed down when you mashed the throttle. Finally, my friend loaned it to one of his football team mates-who ran it off the road and hit a tree! the pushed back onto the raod, tied on the front bumper with a piece of twine, and kept on driving! Seriously, AMC should be remembered for making cars that no self-respecting teenage boy wanted to be caught DEAD in!
A question for shifty-I was watching an old james Bond movie a while back (it was the Roger moore one set in Bangkok). Anyway, i heard that in the 1970's, the Government of thailand forbade the importation of japanese cars-so oddly enough, the brand sold in thailand was..AMC! hence, the rich people in thailand rode around in AMC matadors and Hornets! surely, some of these heaps must survive-is Thailand the place where AMC cars go to die? It was really weird watching roger moore as JB flying around in an AMC hornet-those things could barely make 65 MPH!
My favorite cheapo AMC features was that the labels for dash controls on the Ameircans were actually decals like you put on model airplanes!!!
I don't remember the 6 cylinder pushrod engine as particularly long-lived....I recall them as clattery, rough-idling oil burners that sounded like golf balls in a clothes dryer.
But of course memory is not reliable. That's just how I recall them. The old flatheads were okay though.
EPA/DOT: Well whether one likes the law or not, it's the law and people should pay attention to it lest they get burned big time. Personally I think the EPA served both good and bad purposes...it did keep a lot of useless rust-buckets out of the USA and tried to curb the abuse of importers. But like all laws, sometime they work at cross-purpose, I agree.
I think inline 6-cylinders in general tend to be pretty long-lived, simply because they don't rev fast and don't put out a lot of power. Basically, they're usually just now powerful enough to hurt themselves! Also, I think a lot of old and/or cheap people bought low-line stuff like AMC 6-cylinders (and to be fair, slant-six Mopars, 6-cyl Fords and GMs, etc), and those people just didn't dog them out and abuse them like the typical V-8 buyer might have.
I've seen quite a few oil burning and leaking AMCs. I once got behind an Eagle on the highway, I swear that thing was losing actual oil particles/drops out of its exhaust. When I was a teenager my mom knew a little old lady who had a mint blue Hornet wagon. Her and my mom would go out now and then, and once they took the Hornet. My mother said it was an awful thing.
I haven't heard of hordes of awful cars making it to Canada or the market being flooded with unsafe wrecks. Maybe the EPA/DOT should rethink their stance...but of course, that would impact someone's income, and it's not what you know...especially when you really don't answer to anybody.
a married couple, used to have a blue Hornet wagon! It was kind of a robin's egg blue. She drove it, and her husband had a beat-up midnight blue '78 Malibu with 200K+ miles on it. He inherited a strippo '87 Sentra with a stick when his father passed away, and then in '94 they decided to get one good new car and cut back their burgeoning fleet. They bought a new Civic sedan, and some kid that worked at the Honda dealer bought their Malibu for like $75.00.
When it came time to retire the Hornet, they tried calling a few junkyards, and I even called a few. Nobody would even TAKE the car off their hands, let alone give them anything for it! We finally drove it down to a big junkyard near Culpeper VA, Leon's Auto Parts, and he gave them 90 bucks for it. They had offered to give it to me, but I knew better! :P It was leaking oil really badly, but that wasn't entirely the car's fault. The valve cover gasket was leaking, and they asked me to fix it. So I got out the socket set and tightened the bolts. One of them snapped off. Instead of getting it fixed professionally, they just drove it like that. I think it blew out about one quart of oil every 100 miles or so! It had around 90,000 miles on it when it got "retired". Body was actually in good shape, except for some rust at the bottom of the doors. One of the back windows would come off its track and fall down into the door, too.
Grbeck and I saw a Hornet at Carlisle. It was a pristine 1970 with only 28,000 miles, but was a nasty little thing! I tried to sit behind the wheel. Horrible seating position, with a close-in, awkwardly angled steering wheel. I don't think fat people could drive these things very comfortably! And the brake pedal was much closer than the gas pedal, making it very awkward to move your foot from one to the other. In fact, I couldn't do it without bending my leg at an extremely awkward angle, otherwise I'd hit the steering wheel with my leg!
Yet, as bad as this thing was, I KNOW I drove my friends' Hornet wagon a few times back in the day! And I don't remember it being that bad. But then, maybe I've just gotten spoiled by newer and better cars since then, so I forgot how bad it was?
Ah, memories. I had (in my college days, when I cycled through cheap used cars at a rapid pace) not only a Hornet (hatchback), but also a gremlin! Apparently I was a slow learner.
I actually liked them both, and thought they drove fine, but this was the early 80's. If nothing else, they drove as well as my '73 Duster and '67 Camaro (6 cyl, PG), and where at least not at all rusty (unlike the others).
I imagine if I drove one now I would be aghast at the discomfort level, but at the time, any wheels was good wheels!
The effect of the EPA/DOT on the individual car collector is really not the point or goal of the EPA/DOT. They are dealing with larger issues... but as they say "when elephants dance, the ants get trampled". I think Americans can survive without their gray market cars just fine and really, having us all run around in 1960s era cars in the year 2005 probably isn't a good idea.
Are we drifting topic here? I don't think so, since any "project car" you undertake had better conform to local and Federal laws or you are totally screwed. I've seen so many horror shows that I really want to give people a heads up about "weird" cars.
The old lady my mom knew also had a robins egg blue Hornet. The thing was really in pristine condition...I remember seeing the car around 1994 or so, and it was really immaculate. The old lady's husband also had an old car - a 76 or so huge full size Olds 2 door, in a creme yellow with a white vinyl top. It was also in nice condition, with like 60K on it. When he passed away, the car was sold for like $1000. I was almost tempted to look at it, but my dad said keep away based on the gas mileage and size. Probably was a good idea.
Onto the EPA/DOT silliness...dancing elephants indeed. The mere cost of shipment for oddball cars should keep the joker consumers out of the market - these things would be bought as hobby cars by enthusiasts, not regular commuters. There'd really be no harm done, but I am sure for those in charge, punch drunk on a power trip, it's hard to see the other side. Not progressive people or ideas.
Does anybody remember the Alliance/Encore that AMC made for Renault in the US during the '80s? I swear those were probably the worst products ever to come out of that company. I've driven two of them and I was very unhappy after the drives...tinny, slow, noisy, shaky, etc.
do smog restrictions go, in general? There are still parts of Maryland where no emissions test is required yet. It's mainly in low-population areas where the pollution associated with testing (having to build the facility in the first place- puts a strain on the environment, cars idling in long lines, etc) would probably exceed the savings of getting the gross polluters off the road. Plus, they have to be able to support themselves. If you don't have enough car owners to cough up that $14.00 fee every two years, it's not going to be profitable.
In areas where the emissions test is required, cars from 1977-present are subjected, unless they're Diesels or trucks over a certain GVWR. Or, if you get historic tags on your car, which you can on 1980 and older cars (1981 as of January 1, 2006)
In California we are frozen at 1974 I believe...older than that and you are okay. Diesels are still exempt.
So if you are buying in California or bringing a car into California you had better make sure the car is old enough OR that will pass smog. Some of the 80s carburetted cars are doomed in California...they just can't pass the test anymore.
In the SF Bay Area, cars are smog tested on dynos now.
they do that here in Maryland, too. If the car's a '77-83 it does the old tailpipe test where they just rev it in park, but '84 and newer get put on the treadmill and they actually put it in drive and do a simulation run. Supposedly the treadmill can hurt some of the older cars, but I don't know what would be different about say, an '83 Monte Carlo versus an '84 that would have any bearing.
Wait, I just realized something...on the latest cars they just do an OBD-II scan and check for error codes. That actually pisses me off, because I want to see a printout to see how my car's really doing, not just the computer verifying that it's running okay! With my Intrepid, I really wanted to see if, and how much the emissions deteriorated over the years.
I have to jump back to the Dodge Challengers. My mother had a pair of 1977 challengers for a while; one from new and purchased in Alaska, the other used and purchased, I believe, in 1983. The Alaska car was silver and the latecomer was blue. I fondly recall both vehicles because:
1) In 1982, not too long before my youngest brother was born (I think my mother was pregnant with him.... maybe 6 months?), we went garage-saling as we did every weekend. This was about hour 7 or 8 on the day and my brother and I, ages 4 and 5, respectively, were rather worn out. We "waited in the car" while my mother went to "one last sale...." Well, waiting in the car consisted of pretending we were driving it. My brother managed to shift it into neutral and off we went down a hill. I told him "pull up on that lever!" and he did.... to no avail.... and the car eventually came to rest on top of a large hedge after it plummeted over a retaining wall. Amazingly, the car suffered no real damage, at least not something a 4-year-old would notice when we drove away.
2) In 1984 my youngest brother (then 2 years and maybe 3 months old) pulls a similar stunt in the blue Challenger. Except this time the car is parked on the street and he is so small he cannot do anything to affect the car's movement, be it steer, brake, etc. My brother and I were charged with watching him, but we were in the back yard playing ball and he "slipped away." I tell you what, when we saw the car roll past us, you can bet we were watching real hard! Three cars had to veer out of the way of the car as it slowly made its way across the road, and it finally was stopped by a neighbor's fence along the next block after it plowed down about 50' of newly painted picket fence and ground to a halt on top of the concrete base upon which the fence was built. Again, the car was driven away from there, but I'd be amazed if it did not sustain some steering or suspension damage.
Anyway, fun memories. In retrospect I am amazed and thankful that nobody was injured. Those were tough cars for their size! :P
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I mean, everybody accepts that these cars were dogs when new-so is there a collector's market (of sorts) for these oddballs? I can't see that there is a parts supply for these things-junkyars would have crushed them LONG ago! Still, there is a TV ad for some kind of new drug running-and it features a guy driving a lemon yellow GREMLIN! The GREMLIN was basically a sawed-off Hornet-crappy hadling, crappy mileage, and a rust bucket to boot! Where the heck did the ad agency dredge this car up?
I would be happy to buy a clean V8 stick Gremiln X if one came along. They really weren't bad cars for the day, compared to the rest of the crap out there. At least they were pretty tough.
When I had it registered in Anchorage, I had to have an emissions test performed on my 1969! Chevy pickup. In Fairbanks, I think it is 1977, but no earlier than '74 for sure. In both places, the requirements must pass standards established for those years (i.e., a 1977 truck does not have to run as "clean" as a 2005), but must also pass a visual test. Therefore, even if you have your 1985 full-size van with a 350 running as clean as a 2006 civic hybrid, if you do not have your air pump installed, you can hang it up! :P
With our cold winters, we get a lot of inversions that keep the pollutants near the ground. Fairbanks used to be on the EPA's blacklist! I think that wood-burning stoves are more the problem than autos, but both are monitored very closely.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
exactly what straight-6 are we talking about? The drivetrain in my AMC Jeep CJ7 was, to my knowledge and opinion, quite overbuilt. By that I mean the 4.2 was indestructible, as were the axles. The 3-speed tranny eventually wore through the synchros, but a cheap rebuild later and it was good as new.
Not to mention that engine was no speed demon, but supplied enough torque to spin the 32"x12" tires from a standstill.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
You mean a project because of the miles? Are 320s of that era straight or V-6? No matter, it could be a bit dicey, but 136k isn't that extreme for an eight year-old car, and the price is pretty tempting. Not at all crazy about the color combo, and I'd have to see a CarFax and repair records before I'd consider it.
Funny, I test drove a manual transmission Vigor about five or six years ago, and a '90-ish Mercedes 190E 2.3 (automatic) the same day, I think they were the same price; I liked the Vigor a bit better, it was kind of fun to drive (I'm sure the stick shift helped), sprightly, though not a powerhouse by today's standards. Still, even with only 85k on the clock, an anomaly like a 5-cylinder Acura that barely anyone even remembers isn't going to bring $7k on this planet, IMO. I can think of a bunch of cars (foreign and domestic) on which I'd rather spend that kind of money.
That CLK is a V6. It's pretty cheap, but one would be well advised to find a lower mileage (and better colors) car for a little more, and maybe seek out a V8. I wouldn't look at it unless it was really pristine and had every record.
The AMC straight-6 I mentioned was the old 232 and 258. I have their descendant, the 4.0 PowerTech, in my '97 Jeep Grand Cherokee. That is one tough engine...we put 2k miles on it a month and it never hiccups.
Oh yeah that 4.0 eats a lot of gas, especially if the Jeep's in 4WD mode. But I should note that its mileage isn't as bad as the old Ford 300 six...remember that big sucker of a gas hog?
potential problems or not, I like the CLK. Color combo works for me.
Knew a guy who bought a stick Vigor used after we graduated from college. Nice car IIRC, probably realeased a little too soon. I think an updated version would be a big seller right now.
Speaking of 5 cylinders, knew a guy a few years later who swore the Vigor used a V-5. Could not in any form or fashion talk him out of it.
I'm re-reading "The End of Detroit: How the Big 3 Lost the American Car market" by Micheline Maynard. It is a fascinating read if you are into the business side of the car world. Some of the blunders Detroit made will astound you.
Comments
A few years ago, I used to see a guy in my neighborhood that used one of those little hardtops to deliver pizzas. Seemed like it was still in pretty good shape.
The Datsun 200SX had a cool looking little hardtop around the same time that had a similar roofline. I also thought those little Dodge Challengers and Plymouth Saporros were kinda neat.
"leading edge tecknowlegey"
A "collector" of 450SLs?---that's rather pompous, given that it's not a collector's car unless you mean collecting them in your back yard.
I vote "jerk".
The mileage is stated in the ad title, I would say it's implied to be original. And it could be.
The collector thing is funny though...a claimed fintail collector would have more credibility.
Now that I look through those pictures though, the car DOES look like a repaint. I think one giveaway is how while the paint is nice and shiny, if you look at the reflections in it, they have kind of a blurry, fuzzy look. And the main thing that bothers me about the interior is that it's done that thing that GM cars of the 70's tended to do, where as they aged, even if you took care of them, the different materials would fade at different rates, so eventually you'd eventually end up with 5 or 6 interior colors where originally you only had one! It's really noticeable with the center console, which has almost a pinkish hue to it. Either it's just faded to that color, or it's been replaced, pulled out of another car that faded a bit differently.
I think they're pretty cars, but aren't you better off getting the 560SL?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I'd agree with you, except for "NO rust. Very clean!"
At that point, the guy is fair game. I just ran through the pictures, but I also saw the rust on the lid... and if it's rusty there, what do you think the lower corners of the doors look like? They are conveniently not shown in the pictures.
Our 'expert' might have phrased things a little differently, but he has a point. Esp. on a place like Craig's list, which caters to the amateur. I didn't see the overspray on the muffler until I looked for it...but I think he's right.
-Mathias
He reminds me of the type of person who bad-mouths a movie without having seen it. Suddenly a "rust stain" becomes rust, and overspray becomes evidence of a complete repaint...I'm surprised he didn't spot accident damage from the photos, or flooding.
Funny how a seller posts a boatload of close up photos and then somebody wants to slam him for "hiding" things!!!
You can't win with some people.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/106367749.html
low mileage Rambler
fun "minivan"
You're right, '79 Malibu price is kind of silly. But if you don't ask, you don't get.
Rambler? Pricey, but some nostalgic person might overpay.
Again, price guidelines are fine, but when you get into rare/oddball cars that are still at the low end of the price scale, it only takes one person that really wants it.
Besides, paying 5K for a 3K malibu or Rambler isn't the end of the world, certainly not as bad as paying 75K for a 30K "muscle" car!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
To think, put a port hole in it, and some shag carpet, and you have an English Pinto cruising wagon!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
MINI -- yeah, you're right, better watch the paperwork on this one. Just because it's IN the country doesn't mean you can't get into a lot of trouble with this car.
Sometimes what they do with a model of car that has a long production run is to put the modern body on an older frame, and then register it under the older frame #s. This happened all the time with Citroen 2CVs you see in this country. You could do the same with a Mini I would think.
Also people will bring in illegal cars on one year resident visas and then switch paperwork with a US legal car, or even just hand you a foreign title or "papers" for the one year residency.
If it doesn't have DOT/EPA papers, don't buy it!
Seriously, AMC should be remembered for making cars that no self-respecting teenage boy wanted to be caught DEAD in!
It was really weird watching roger moore as JB flying around in an AMC hornet-those things could barely make 65 MPH!
I don't remember the 6 cylinder pushrod engine as particularly long-lived....I recall them as clattery, rough-idling oil burners that sounded like golf balls in a clothes dryer.
But of course memory is not reliable. That's just how I recall them. The old flatheads were okay though.
EPA/DOT: Well whether one likes the law or not, it's the law and people should pay attention to it lest they get burned big time. Personally I think the EPA served both good and bad purposes...it did keep a lot of useless rust-buckets out of the USA and tried to curb the abuse of importers. But like all laws, sometime they work at cross-purpose, I agree.
I haven't heard of hordes of awful cars making it to Canada or the market being flooded with unsafe wrecks. Maybe the EPA/DOT should rethink their stance...but of course, that would impact someone's income, and it's not what you know...especially when you really don't answer to anybody.
When it came time to retire the Hornet, they tried calling a few junkyards, and I even called a few. Nobody would even TAKE the car off their hands, let alone give them anything for it! We finally drove it down to a big junkyard near Culpeper VA, Leon's Auto Parts, and he gave them 90 bucks for it. They had offered to give it to me, but I knew better! :P It was leaking oil really badly, but that wasn't entirely the car's fault. The valve cover gasket was leaking, and they asked me to fix it. So I got out the socket set and tightened the bolts. One of them snapped off. Instead of getting it fixed professionally, they just drove it like that. I think it blew out about one quart of oil every 100 miles or so! It had around 90,000 miles on it when it got "retired". Body was actually in good shape, except for some rust at the bottom of the doors. One of the back windows would come off its track and fall down into the door, too.
Grbeck and I saw a Hornet at Carlisle. It was a pristine 1970 with only 28,000 miles, but was a nasty little thing! I tried to sit behind the wheel. Horrible seating position, with a close-in, awkwardly angled steering wheel. I don't think fat people could drive these things very comfortably! And the brake pedal was much closer than the gas pedal, making it very awkward to move your foot from one to the other. In fact, I couldn't do it without bending my leg at an extremely awkward angle, otherwise I'd hit the steering wheel with my leg!
Yet, as bad as this thing was, I KNOW I drove my friends' Hornet wagon a few times back in the day! And I don't remember it being that bad. But then, maybe I've just gotten spoiled by newer and better cars since then, so I forgot how bad it was?
I actually liked them both, and thought they drove fine, but this was the early 80's. If nothing else, they drove as well as my '73 Duster and '67 Camaro (6 cyl, PG), and where at least not at all rusty (unlike the others).
I imagine if I drove one now I would be aghast at the discomfort level, but at the time, any wheels was good wheels!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Are we drifting topic here? I don't think so, since any "project car" you undertake had better conform to local and Federal laws or you are totally screwed. I've seen so many horror shows that I really want to give people a heads up about "weird" cars.
Onto the EPA/DOT silliness...dancing elephants indeed. The mere cost of shipment for oddball cars should keep the joker consumers out of the market - these things would be bought as hobby cars by enthusiasts, not regular commuters. There'd really be no harm done, but I am sure for those in charge, punch drunk on a power trip, it's hard to see the other side. Not progressive people or ideas.
In areas where the emissions test is required, cars from 1977-present are subjected, unless they're Diesels or trucks over a certain GVWR. Or, if you get historic tags on your car, which you can on 1980 and older cars (1981 as of January 1, 2006)
So if you are buying in California or bringing a car into California you had better make sure the car is old enough OR that will pass smog. Some of the 80s carburetted cars are doomed in California...they just can't pass the test anymore.
In the SF Bay Area, cars are smog tested on dynos now.
Wait, I just realized something...on the latest cars they just do an OBD-II scan and check for error codes. That actually pisses me off, because I want to see a printout to see how my car's really doing, not just the computer verifying that it's running okay! With my Intrepid, I really wanted to see if, and how much the emissions deteriorated over the years.
I have to jump back to the Dodge Challengers. My mother had a pair of 1977 challengers for a while; one from new and purchased in Alaska, the other used and purchased, I believe, in 1983. The Alaska car was silver and the latecomer was blue. I fondly recall both vehicles because:
1) In 1982, not too long before my youngest brother was born (I think my mother was pregnant with him.... maybe 6 months?), we went garage-saling as we did every weekend. This was about hour 7 or 8 on the day and my brother and I, ages 4 and 5, respectively, were rather worn out. We "waited in the car" while my mother went to "one last sale...." Well, waiting in the car consisted of pretending we were driving it. My brother managed to shift it into neutral and off we went down a hill. I told him "pull up on that lever!" and he did.... to no avail.... and the car eventually came to rest on top of a large hedge after it plummeted over a retaining wall. Amazingly, the car suffered no real damage, at least not something a 4-year-old would notice when we drove away.
2) In 1984 my youngest brother (then 2 years and maybe 3 months old) pulls a similar stunt in the blue Challenger. Except this time the car is parked on the street and he is so small he cannot do anything to affect the car's movement, be it steer, brake, etc. My brother and I were charged with watching him, but we were in the back yard playing ball and he "slipped away." I tell you what, when we saw the car roll past us, you can bet we were watching real hard! Three cars had to veer out of the way of the car as it slowly made its way across the road, and it finally was stopped by a neighbor's fence along the next block after it plowed down about 50' of newly painted picket fence and ground to a halt on top of the concrete base upon which the fence was built. Again, the car was driven away from there, but I'd be amazed if it did not sustain some steering or suspension damage.
Anyway, fun memories. In retrospect I am amazed and thankful that nobody was injured. Those were tough cars for their size! :P
I would be happy to buy a clean V8 stick Gremiln X if one came along. They really weren't bad cars for the day, compared to the rest of the crap out there. At least they were pretty tough.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
With our cold winters, we get a lot of inversions that keep the pollutants near the ground. Fairbanks used to be on the EPA's blacklist! I think that wood-burning stoves are more the problem than autos, but both are monitored very closely.
Not to mention that engine was no speed demon, but supplied enough torque to spin the 32"x12" tires from a standstill.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I can't remember the last time I saw a manual transmission Vigor
Funny, I test drove a manual transmission Vigor about five or six years ago, and a '90-ish Mercedes 190E 2.3 (automatic) the same day, I think they were the same price; I liked the Vigor a bit better, it was kind of fun to drive (I'm sure the stick shift helped), sprightly, though not a powerhouse by today's standards. Still, even with only 85k on the clock, an anomaly like a 5-cylinder Acura that barely anyone even remembers isn't going to bring $7k on this planet, IMO. I can think of a bunch of cars (foreign and domestic) on which I'd rather spend that kind of money.
Knew a guy who bought a stick Vigor used after we graduated from college. Nice car IIRC, probably realeased a little too soon. I think an updated version would be a big seller right now.
Speaking of 5 cylinders, knew a guy a few years later who swore the Vigor used a V-5. Could not in any form or fashion talk him out of it.