Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

lemmer

Are those turbodiesels?

qbrozen

Yeah, the 258 (4.2) is what my jeep had. Loved that engine.

lemko

...the price on that blue 300D in my neighborhood that's been for sale for about 3 years dropped to $1,900. The body and interior appear to be in good shape.

lemko

...how everybody bashes on AMC, but I understand their early '60s cars were of extremely good quality. There's an article about the 1961-63 Rambler Americans in the latest edition of Collectible Automobile. These cars had ceramic-lined exhaust systems that lasted the life of the car and pioneered dual-reservoir master cylinders. From the article, the American was the Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic of its day - dull, but dependable. I guess the Classic could've been considered the CamCord of the early '60s.

lemmer

Don't try to say this Jag isn't cool.

FrankenPorsche that someone actually finished.

stickguy

Hey, I actually like it for some reason. Nice description though, since it has fuel injection, but the carbs need to be adjusted. Once he got to the part about sitting for 2 years, needing to bleed the brakes, even the insane should run away.

I know all about the "easy fix" syndrome (if it is so easy, why don't you do it), but bleeding the brakes? how much can that cost? Just do the basic tune up, get the brakes up to snuff, drive it a few hundred miles, and skip the whole sitting around/needs stuff before you can drive it routine.

one thing though: the steering wheel is hideous. has to go.

stickguy

this one at least looks like it was done right, and if it really was done 30 years ago, at least it should be sorted out by now! Could be a fun toy if it isn't too expensive, and at least you don't have to worry about a 6K engine rebuild.

Plus, as we know from Shifty, a 912 isn't worth diddly anyway, so at least they didn't waste a good car.

There are worse things to spend your money on if you want a toy, and this appeals to you.

fintail

That 300D probably isn't a turbo. It could have been, but the seller should have mentioned it. They made both turbo and non turbo versions, I think side by side.

If an old MB has been for sale for 3 years, I have to wonder what is wrong with it.

That Jag is funny...British snootiness meets American redneck. I loathe the steering wheel, doesn't work in that car.

Frankenporsche is not bad looking, I like that it's a vintage engine.

michaellno

Never heard of this model

Interesting interior color on this MB

Price seems a bit hight but a would a well documented history make up for that?

Price is high - and the A/C doesn't work!

andre1969

I think that was the base model Lincoln back then. IIRC they had the Capri and then the nicer Premiere model. There was also a limited-edition Continental Mark II, which I think they tried to make separate from Lincoln, much the way Mopar made Imperial separate from Chrysler. It was a low-volume 2-door hardtop, kind of a precursor to the stereotypical personal luxury coupe with a long hood and smallish passenger cabin.

fintail

That Lincoln isn't bad looking...if ever a car needed wide whites

That burgundy interior SDL has been all over craigslist, it was on the Seattle page too. I've heard that engine can be a leaker, but the car itself doesn't look bad.

The 300TD wouldn't be too awful if it lacked that slight damage. I'd want to take off a grand for the bump 'n scrape. It's too high as is, but a nice color.

That last car is way overpriced...you'll easily sink 2 grand into it getting the locks and AC fixed, and the interior is really not fixable for reasonable money. He's asking 2x a real price, and that's being nice.

qbrozen

not everybody is bashing on them.

qbrozen

stickguy - i'm not sure, but i think you're statement indicated confusion by the fuel injection/adjustment comment? Actually, the listing says the carb jets need to be cleaned. There is a Holly fuel injection that is actually a fuel-injected carb. So I would believe this is what is installed on the vehicle. Its a rather expensive system the last time I checked on it (which was YEARS ago ... i believe about $1500 back in the mid-90s, IIRC).

andre1969

the same thing as a fuel-injected carb? I know GM used to offer TBI on a lot of their cars back in the 80's, as kind of a stepping stone between carbs and PFI. And looking under the hood, the TBI setups I've seen look like carb setups.

qbrozen

I believe its very similar ... but don't quote me on that. I know that, looking at them, they do appear similar (one injector suspended over each barrel of the carb), but I'm sure some engineer would have more detailed reasons for why they are NOT the same.

fintail

Price is high, but it looks like a nice survivor

michaellno

I agree with you about the price, but it sure does look good in the pictures.

I had a friend whose Dad worked at the body shop of one of the local Chevy dealers. I remember when they bought a brand new '75 Monte Carlo ... except theirs was the metallic burnt orange rather than the green. Stunning car, with a hood long enough to land Cessnas onto.

Not sure if they still own it, but I know they kept it for quite a number of years.

andre1969

of the '73 Monte Carlos. It always liked the recessed taillights and the strip that joined them underneath the trunklid, which accented the lines of the car nicely, giving it a somewhat sporty look. Just for comparison, here's the rump of a 1974 It still had the taillights inset, but as a whole, the rear of the car just looks bulkier and more pieced-together to me.

Back in the 80's after she retired, my grandmother did part time transcription work for an old lady that had a '75 Monte Carlo. It was midnight blue with a white landau top and white vinyl interior. She smoked like a chimney, and for some reason reminded me of Cruella DeVil. No dalmatian puppy coats for her, though...she was actually the president of the local SPCA!

ghulet

I remember my mom having one of those as a rental (I think it was a '74, though, and it was burgandy with those cool swivel bucket seats). The green is nasty, but at least it's period-correct.

Fin, I'm pretty sure, at least in the U.S., that the 300D non-turbo and turbo were not sold concurrently; the last year for the N/A was '81, with the turbo replacing it for '82. I think the same applies for the CD (coupe), but I'm not sure.

Those various Benzes you posted seem like relative bargains compared to this (and it even has a dent, and no mention of transmission or mileage). I think the high cost of gas has caused diesel owners to have fantasies about the value of the cars:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/106748683.html

fintail

I can never get the 123 diesel stuff straight. Your years sound right, I think I recall that for the coupes anyway.

You're right about the diesel owners inflating their prices, though. I've seen many 86-87 SDLs approaching 10K, and a couple years ago I saw a 91 350SD with 250K on it (!) and they wanted something like 12K for it. Get real. But at the same time...about 5 years ago I knew a MB specialist who got $7500 out of a very pristine 85 300 TD/wagon. Those 123 wagons do command a premium.

ghulet

I don't typically get too excited about Mustangs, but here's a decent, and actually running, '60s Mustang, for under $1000:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/106808352.html

lemko

The ad says "a 289 6 engine." Isn't the 289 a V-8? He must've meant a 250 inline 6.

ghulet

How can anyone resist a $3k sixteen year-old domestic, especially with such an enthusiastic and thorough description (doesnt even mention which engine is in this little goldmine)? And it's 'primed over', even. Perhaps a prime example of someone thinking 'low miles' necessarily means their car is worth three times book:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/106838826.html

au94

289 is a V-8, the straight 6 that year was the 200 cu in version. If its not rusty, its a great buy. Parts are readily available and cheap. The engine bay will accomodate a big, and I mean big like 428, V-8.

Mr_Shiftright

Don't let them re-write history. Those Americans were such low grade vehicles you wouldn't believe it if you saw it. Redefines the word "cheesy". If you get to drive one, all will be revealed to you, especially if you drive a 60s era GM car right after that or an early Toyota Corolla from the 60s.

I'd say they were more like the Daewoos of their day, to be fair about it. I mean, glue on decals to label the instruments, and a flathead engine and rubber mats...now, really.

Mr_Shiftright

Okay, I'll take your dare....it's not cool at all...it's (to me) nothing short of a horror show.....putting a V8 into a incompetent barge like a Mark VII is bad enough for openers, but this has got to be a classic case of the "worst of both worlds". I mean, why not just buy a '55 Buick rather than build a FrankenBuick?

And then HOW BADLY everything was done.....louvres in the hood, pimpy wires, collapsed front seats with bordello upholstery, greasy V8 engine.....UGH!

Now he has a car that both Jaguar AND Chevy people will hate. Brilliant!

I wouldn't appraise this over $750.

Mr_Shiftright

Hey 912s are comin' up, S-L-O-W-L-Y. As I like to say "The Porsche 912 --VW performance at Porsche repair prices".

I saw a 912 sell at $10K recently, and quickly, which means I may have to rethink the values, which I had pegged at $7,500.

lemmer

My comment was made with slight sarcasm, but I can't bring myself to add in those little cars with faces to explain myself.

On the Jag, the steering wheel and the airbrushed writing on the back was enough to turn me off, before I even got to the engine.

Mr_Shiftright

I kinda thought so but it is important to speak out against evil in the world, even though we are but one small voice crying in a wilderness of bad taste :surprise:

fintail

If I had a garage, I'd have a parts car

Sad 126 diesel from the same seller - I like how the front drivers and back passenger door are different

Funny Dart wagon from same seller - nice seats

lemmer

The Dart "has some NOS" so it should be incredibly fast.

Yes, I am kidding.

andre1969

if it's set up right, that Dart could be a pretty quick car. The 273-4bbl put out something like 235 hp stock, and it was an engine that liked to rev, moreso than a 318. The 273-4bbl was actually kind of a mild musclecar engine in the early years, until it was replaced by the 340-4bbl, which put out around 275 hp stock, and has been accused of being under-rated. They were also pretty light cars, and the Torqueflite was a fast-shifting transmission. I'd be curious to know what rear end ratio the car has in it.

stickguy

I have always been partial to something like that Dart. A "compact" (by the standards of the time) so relatively light, with a mid size small block that likes to rev. A nice, balanced combo of speed and handling if done right.

I never cared for the big block mastedons, or even the larger mid-size muscles as much as the smaller ones.

A nice 340 6 pack Dart build up in the garage sounds about right. maybe a Donahue javelin...

lemmer

AMC Spirit featuring a Rally Package.

Studebaker Lark. If you are going through all the trouble of putting in a new engine, why not a V8?

Have we reached the point where a '74 GTO is worth restoring?

Maybe a good Audi to drive until something breaks, and that shouldn't be long.

stickguy

had me going on the spirit until I saw the picture.

For the GTO, no we haven't, but I do kinda like these for some reason.

qbrozen

looks rough, but could be a real pretty car if done right... I doubt you could come out on the plus side on it, though ...
http://adcache.collectorcartraderonline.com/10/7/7/80549577.htm

lemmer

What does this have to do with a '56 Healey? Does he think people who would buy this might be browsing Healeys?

andre1969

I spec'd a '74 out on NADA, and with air conditioning, rally wheels, and a 4-speed, I got a high retail of around $18,000. Now I don't believe that number for an instant! The GTO faithful pretty much disowned the '74, and even the '73, which was still an intermediate with a nice, big 400, goes pretty much unloved, partly because the Grand Am took over as top dog.

Still, for what it is, the '74 GTO's not a bad little musclecar. 350-4bbl, 200 hp, compact body. 0-60 in 7.7 seconds according to one website I found. To put it in perspective, the original '64 GTO with the base 389-4bbl and 325 gross hp was only good for around 7.5. Plus, by then I think even cars like the Grand Am, Regal Gran Sport, Laguna S-3, and Olds 442/Hurst maxed out at around 250 hp, and they were much heavier cars than the '74 GTO, so I doubt they were much faster.

And the last gasp that Pontiac made at anything resembling a GTO was the 1977 1/2 Can Am. The ads even proclaimed "Remember the Goat" and "in the spirit of the GTO". It had a "high performance" 400 with 200 hp, a 15-20 hp boost over a normal 400 by then. But the car weighed around 4100 lb. 0-60 was around 8.6 seconds.

lemmer

I like the '74 too. I have a different perspective now, but as a young teenager in the early/mid '80s I couldn't figure out why anyone liked the first GTOs. To me they just looked like boxy old family cars. I guess that was the point of early muscle cars, but I didn't get it. I do like them now, but I still like the middle years best.

Mr_Shiftright

NADA blew it bigtime on that price. More like $10,000 for a Pebble Beach quality 1974 GTO.

1985 Benz TD -- well, if you could chisel him down to say $1,200 and all you needed was two doors painted, and the rest of the car was really good to go, it wouldn't be a bad buy at all. But if there are other needs, it gets dicey.

andre1969

are the '66-67 style. Something about the '65 just didn't look macho enough...it was almost too "pretty", I guess. I was actually afraid of the '64 GTO when I was a kid because my Dad had one. I still remember the night we went to pick it up. Mom and I drove him out to get it, and followed him home. The exhaust or something was dragging underneath, throwing up shower after shower of sparks. And it was pretty ratty, too...kind of a primer black/gray, and loud. I remember Dad running out of gas one day too, while taking me to nursery school. Thankfully it was only like 500 feet from a Shell station! That car just scared me, though! But I've gotten over it. :shades:

jrosasmc

Any updates on that Audi S4? You going to get it?

Mr_Shiftright

No on the S4. I checked into parts/labor prices----astronomical. I think I may try another strategy, which is to buy a new small-ish car for economy and a simple "toy" for fun---an older Alfa or MG/Triumph or perhaps Porsche 914. This way I don't have to rely on my "toy" to be 100% reliable and take me long distances.

To keep an older exotic car at peak efficiency--that is, to compete in reliability with a new car, is very very expensive and/or time consuming.

fintail

I think I've seen this before, seems like you could do worse if you're a 70s retro nut

I know it's not a high spec muscle version, but it seems decent examples of this body are getting hard to find

andre1969

that '68 Coronet is pretty tempting! I'm not crazy about that shade of green, but I like the car! Like the Cougar, too. I actually preferred these to the '77-79 T-Bird.

Mr_Shiftright

Way too strong a price on the '68 Coronet for a car with needs. He's asking #2 car money for a #3 at best. Try $6,000, take $5,500 and be happy.

lemko

My college roommate had a 1968 Dodge Coronet in that same color but it was a 440 sedan. A while back somebody mentioned the Rambler American. Another old roommate had a white 1965 American two-door sedan. It bore a striking resemblance to a contemporary Dodge Dart.

andre1969

I don't know if this is a joke or not! I don't know if the description is actually trying to poke fun at the car, or if it's just one of those things that comes off as unintentionally funny like some of those old 70's and 80's horror movies (EAT THE COOKIE MOTHER!!! NOT ANOTHER WIRE HANGER!!! you get the idea :P )

lemko

This has GOT to be a joke! Either that or the seller is going through a major psychotic episode. That car is worth $600 on a good day, not $6,000!

fintail

Eh you could probably con someone into paying 1500-2000 for that Pontiac, but that's it. I bet I could talk that Coronet guy down to close to 6000 cash, and I know which one I'd rather have.

Funny ad though, someone is very excited about what was a granny grocery getter when new.