...I've heard that if you just let it warm up about a minute, and then take off and drive gently at first, it'll warm up quicker, and waste less fuel. I've also heard that letting them warm up for an excessively long time, at fast idle, isn't good for them, either...
True, true, and true. At the risk of nitpicking, 30 seconds of idling should be sufficient, in even very cold weather, for the oil to circulate through the engine.
Let us not forget that idiot lights have returned! Many cars nowadays no longer have temperature gauges. Both my Forester and Fiesta are examples, and I find it highly annoying (for my part). Apparently dash space is just too valuable these days, what with all the electronics and idiot lights....
Want the ultimate in cost cutting? When an idiot light on my 2000 Park Ave comes on, the HUD shows the warning "Check Gages". They couldn't aven afford the "u"!
The Park Ave only has a gauge for fuel and temperature, but it has a trip computer that lets you cycle through various functions, and where the odometer normally is, it can display battery amps and oil pressure. It will also show the coolant temp in Fahrenheit. I think it'll show it in Celsius too if you hit the metric button, but can't remember.
My 2012 Ram has a coolant gauge and fuel gauge, but idiot lights for oil and amps. There's space for the extra two gauges though. I think you have to either pay extra for them, or they come standard with the nicer trim levels.
One reason, I imagine, they went to idiot lights back in the late 50's and 60's over real gauges was cost cutting, but I wonder if it was simply that the gauges they used at the time were pretty cheap, and not always very accurate? The amp gauge, especially, in those older cars tended to jump around alot. And if you were sitting at a traffic light with the turn signal on, the needle would dance in rhythm with the turn signal.
Hahaha; Andre, that's quite possible! My C20 does that. But, I think it's accurate, it is just that the oil pressure and amperage really do fluctuate that much.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I can always tell when the thermostat first opens up on my '85 Silverado, because the gauge goes up a bit more than half-way as it gets up to operating temperature, and then it drops down a bit. After that, it usually stays constant. Except for that one time I overheated it driving into DC last year. Oops!
My fintail has a period correct aftermarket amp gauge that I assume the original owner stuck in the dash. It does the signal thing too. But, it seems to work - it accurately foretold my dying generator, the warning light also predicted this. Somewhat surprising the old sensors work after so many years. That car also has an oil pressure gauge, something not seen on many cars since.
Funniest gauge in that car (aside from the vertical speedometer) is the fuel gauge, which isn't in lowest terms. I have 4/4 and 2/4.
The amp gauge, especially, in those older cars tended to jump around alot. And if you were sitting at a traffic light with the turn signal on, the needle would dance in rhythm with the turn signal.
Running with the choke on or partially on also created fuel dilution in the oil--so with that excellent gasoline solvent washing cylinder walls and some folks revving a cold engine on top of that, you can imagine the amount of wear some engines had to endure.
Reaching 100000 miles on an engine was a real accomplishment in the 50s and 60s. Now people howl in protest if their modern engines have a problem at that mileage.
Yep, going 100,000 miles without at least a valve job were a REAL accomplishment in those days. Chances were almost 100% that a rebore would be needed too.
Today? What's a rebore? What's a Sioux Valve Machine? What's a ridge reamer?
Spark Plugs were usually changed at 12,000 miles. At 15,000 miles they were toast.
Spark Plugs were usually changed at 12,000 miles. At 15,000 miles they were toast.
I've always wondered...what was it, exactly, that changed to allow spark plugs to last longer? Improved gasoline? Better plugs? I let my '68 Dart go around 40-45,000 miles once without changing the spark plugs, and when I changed them, there didn't seem to be much difference in performance or fuel economy.
I know today's engines are also better at making the plugs last longer, but there had to be something else going on, if I could get 40-45K miles out of them from a car that comes from that 12-15K era.
I believe all modern spark plugs are platinum tipped now and unleaded gas is a factor too.
Your Dart must have had platinum plugs. No way yesterday's spark plugs could have lasted that long.
Anyone remember Champion Spark Plugs? I haven't seen or heard of them in years.
A lot of shops thought they were junk and wouldn't use them while others thought they were the best on the market. An "old timer" told me to always use what came with the car from the factory and I've always done that.
Absolutely there are dramatic improvements in the metallurgy of the plugs. IIRC, those older plugs were all copper and, while copper conducts electricity exceptionally well, they just don't hold up to the conditions in the combustion chamber as well as newer metals such as platinum and iridium.
That said, they still perform better (from a conduction standpoint), so therein comes all the other "advances" in design such as multiple conduction pathways, "V-Power," etc. Basically, you balance longevity with conductivity to get the best result for the application. In the old days, "frequent" plug changes were not a big deal in most cases as it was a twenty minute job, TOPS. Now, you have to take twenty parts off the car just to change plugs, and that's for the EASY ones! LOL
In addition, the old carbureted engines generally do not run at peak efficiency, which means that the plugs are also more likely to suffer fouling or damage. All this adds up to a shorter life.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
Running with the choke on or partially on also created fuel dilution in the oil--so with that excellent gasoline solvent washing cylinder walls and some folks revving a cold engine on top of that, you can imagine the amount of wear some engines had to endure.
Reaching 100000 miles on an engine was a real accomplishment in the 50s and 60s. Now people howl in protest if their modern engines have a problem at that mileage.
Yep, going 100,000 miles without at least a valve job were a REAL accomplishment in those days. Chances were almost 100% that a rebore would be needed too.
Today? What's a rebore? What's a Sioux Valve Machine? What's a ridge reamer?
Spark Plugs were usually changed at 12,000 miles. At 15,000 miles they were toast.
Hahhahahah! You guys and that Pinto! I did share a photo a couple of times. I think I put it in the Subaru (meet the members) thread as well as in Reader's Rides. But, photos, not really. I parked it in pre-photo days and haven't moved it since, so I can either get the tail from the left, right, or straight on.
Which way do YOU prefer?
Super brief recap:
Was mother's car, she let it sit for five years sans distributor. Gave it to me, I drug it home, sorted the distributor issue out, got it running, used it a couple of weeks. Brother insisted on taking it to college some 200 miles away. I recommended he not given low miles since we got it running. He took it, threw a rod about ten miles from school. I drug it home (again), parked it in the quonset hut, and there it still sits.
Anyone remember Champion Spark Plugs? I haven't seen or heard of them in years.
A lot of shops thought they were junk and wouldn't use them while others thought they were the best on the market. An "old timer" told me to always use what came with the car from the factory and I've always done that.
Back in the '60s all GM cars came with AC plugs (owned by GM), Fords came with Autolite plugs (owned by Ford at the time, later sold off), and Chryslers came with Champions (maybe there was no other brand available to them?). Not sure what AMC used.
Hahhahahah! You guys and that Pinto! I did share a photo a couple of times. I think I put it in the Subaru (meet the members) thread as well as in Reader's Rides. But, photos, not really. I parked it in pre-photo days and haven't moved it since, so I can either get the tail from the left, right, or straight on.
Which way do YOU prefer?
Super brief recap:
Was mother's car, she let it sit for five years sans distributor. Gave it to me, I drug it home, sorted the distributor issue out, got it running, used it a couple of weeks. Brother insisted on taking it to college some 200 miles away. I recommended he not given low miles since we got it running. He took it, threw a rod about ten miles from school. I drug it home (again), parked it in the quonset hut, and there it still sits.
I went to visit the old dear with my new jumper box today - no dice. It would crank and crank and crank, but not start. I was able to get it started last time, but it ran poorly, and let out a terrible cloud of black smoke. I think I'll just have it towed to the shop.
The new jumper box seems to work fine - the now depleted battery only cranks about one and a half times before going dead, but with the box attached, it's like normal. I suspect the now 7 1/2 year old battery on this generator car will need replacement, too.
That clean LTD wagon looks like a fine bargain for a utility car. Not efficient by modern standards, but lots of usefulness for no money.
Good one. Makes light of many of the dreamers/shysters selling old cars, or at best, eternal optimists trying to make a diamond out of a lump of coal. I like the "pantena".
HA! I laugh out loud. That's wonderful, I'd like to roll up to a fancier MBCA event in that. Perfect car for a zombie apocalypse or a Mad Max themed event.
That T-Bird isn't exactly tasteful, but I've seen that kind of thing done to early Birds and Vettes in the 70s and 80s. Same money could probably buy a nice stock driver quality version of the same car. I'd go that way. They need period colors and wide whites.
Studebaker has to be really rare. I wonder if the paint could be buffed out.
I kinda like that '56 Studebaker. Dumb question though...were they actually cost-cutting so much by that time that they didn't put armrests on the front doors? Or maybe it was re-upholstered at some point, and they never put the armrests back on? It has them in the rear doors, plus a pull-down armrest in the center in back, so not seeing armrests up front looks odd.
Also, in a twisted sort of way, I'll confess that I like a few things about that rodded out '94 Corolla. Interior is totally tacky, but I kinda like the body flaring and what they tried to do with the front-end. I think it needs a bit more massaging to be more tasteful, but it was an interesting idea, at least.
Oh, as for that '53-54 Mopar in the woods, yeah, most likely a Plymouth. I'm guessing a '53, judging by what little I can make out of the trim. The ad says "V-8", but Plymouth didn't get a V-8 until 1955. But, the ad also says "1951 Dodge",..
Someone probably deleted the armrests---the President Classic was Studebaker's top of the line car that year. I think it was also marketed as a "Packard Clipper" in '57.
I think the guy who posted the ad just ran across those remains near someone's deer camp and wanted to have some fun. He's not too far off some of the legit ads though!
Someone probably deleted the armrests---the President Classic was Studebaker's top of the line car that year. I think it was also marketed as a "Packard Clipper" in '57.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, about the armrests. And an armrest in the seats, especially, was a rare item, and usually reserved for luxury cars. For instance, I think the 1957 New Yorker had a center armrest standard, but can't remember if it was up front or in back. That was also a car with a ~$4200 base price. The DeSoto Fireflite, which started around $3500, offered it as an option.
I've seen Studes and Packardbakers from that era at car shows from time to time, and had always noticed that the interiors seemed pretty nice for their price class. In those days, sometimes, it seemed like when the automakers would run out of money for "real" improvements such as modern engines or updated bodies, instead they'd put a bit of extra effort into the interior. So that was why the lack of armrests surprised me.
There were Studebaker models you could buy without armrests---the "Scotsman" series. you could even delete the sun visors!
I had a teacher who bought one of those Scotsmans (Scotsmen?). Anyway, I couldn't have yet been 10 years old and I knew it was the saddest damned car I had ever seen. Screamed poverty at an ear-splitting volume.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Studebaker was pretty clueless. They never came up with anything much that people really wanted in the 50s and 60s----except maybe the Lark for a few years. All their other offerings were simply not mainstream products.
A Lark V-8 convertible with 4-speed transmission would be fun---with some mods.
Studebaker was pretty clueless. They never came up with anything much that people really wanted in the 50s and 60s----except maybe the Lark for a few years. All their other offerings were simply not mainstream products.
A Lark V-8 convertible with 4-speed transmission would be fun---with some mods.
I've heard that Studebaker's downward spiral started with a marketing botch of the 1953 models. They expected their volume to be something like 75% of the more upright sedan/wagon models, and only 25% of the low-slung, Lowey coupes. But, the public demanded just the opposite, as those coupes were a hot item for awhile. Unfortunately, by the time Studebaker could adjust production capacity to pump out more coupes and fewer sedans, it was too late.
Ford tends to get credit with coming out with the first personal luxury coupes...first the 1956 Mark II, but then especially with the 4-seat Thunderbird for 1958. But I think the '53 Studes pretty much nailed the idea of what would ultimately surface as the likes of the Monte Carlo, Cutlass Supreme, Regal, the smaller cheaper T-bird, etc.
As for later years, I think it was more a lack of money and resources, rather than being clueless. The Lark, as you mentioned, was a good idea and popular for a few years. However the market was soon flooded with compacts, and, well, the Lark got kinda old.
Weren't those Larks actually fairly large inside, for a compact? They were based on the older 1953-58 cars, as Studebaker didn't have the money to come up with something truly new. But that might have worked in their favor, if you wanted a smaller car with more interior room. Even though Ford came out with the first "mid-size" cars for '62 with the Fairlane and Meteor, I wonder if the Lark was sort of an "accidental" midsize.
They were also pretty strong cars for a compact, with good towing capacity. At least, I saw one once, pulling a horse trailer on "Mr Ed" :-p
The Larks were just chopped off bodies from the 53-58 models. They cut off the front and rear overhangs and shortened the wheelbase from the firewall to the front wheels. They were still offering flathead engines, too.
Studebaker was good at "making do with little". Unfortunately they wasted a lot of resources on the Avanti, one of those "love it or hate it" cars we see now and then from the D3.
Comments
The Park Ave only has a gauge for fuel and temperature, but it has a trip computer that lets you cycle through various functions, and where the odometer normally is, it can display battery amps and oil pressure. It will also show the coolant temp in Fahrenheit. I think it'll show it in Celsius too if you hit the metric button, but can't remember.
My 2012 Ram has a coolant gauge and fuel gauge, but idiot lights for oil and amps. There's space for the extra two gauges though. I think you have to either pay extra for them, or they come standard with the nicer trim levels.
One reason, I imagine, they went to idiot lights back in the late 50's and 60's over real gauges was cost cutting, but I wonder if it was simply that the gauges they used at the time were pretty cheap, and not always very accurate? The amp gauge, especially, in those older cars tended to jump around alot. And if you were sitting at a traffic light with the turn signal on, the needle would dance in rhythm with the turn signal.
Funniest gauge in that car (aside from the vertical speedometer) is the fuel gauge, which isn't in lowest terms. I have 4/4 and 2/4.
Today? What's a rebore? What's a Sioux Valve Machine? What's a ridge reamer?
Spark Plugs were usually changed at 12,000 miles. At 15,000 miles they were toast.
I know today's engines are also better at making the plugs last longer, but there had to be something else going on, if I could get 40-45K miles out of them from a car that comes from that 12-15K era.
Your Dart must have had platinum plugs. No way yesterday's spark plugs could have lasted that long.
Anyone remember Champion Spark Plugs? I haven't seen or heard of them in years.
A lot of shops thought they were junk and wouldn't use them while others thought they were the best on the market. An "old timer" told me to always use what came with the car from the factory and I've always done that.
That said, they still perform better (from a conduction standpoint), so therein comes all the other "advances" in design such as multiple conduction pathways, "V-Power," etc. Basically, you balance longevity with conductivity to get the best result for the application. In the old days, "frequent" plug changes were not a big deal in most cases as it was a twenty minute job, TOPS. Now, you have to take twenty parts off the car just to change plugs, and that's for the EASY ones! LOL
In addition, the old carbureted engines generally do not run at peak efficiency, which means that the plugs are also more likely to suffer fouling or damage. All this adds up to a shorter life.
Ever change plugs in a 390 1968 Mustang with air conditioning?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Which way do YOU prefer?
Super brief recap:
Was mother's car, she let it sit for five years sans distributor. Gave it to me, I drug it home, sorted the distributor issue out, got it running, used it a couple of weeks. Brother insisted on taking it to college some 200 miles away. I recommended he not given low miles since we got it running. He took it, threw a rod about ten miles from school. I drug it home (again), parked it in the quonset hut, and there it still sits.
Sad stuff!
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/ctd/4732339251.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/4710940200.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4734279747.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4741344052.html
restoration project - $1 (north ironwood)
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
I went to visit the old dear with my new jumper box today - no dice. It would crank and crank and crank, but not start. I was able to get it started last time, but it ran poorly, and let out a terrible cloud of black smoke. I think I'll just have it towed to the shop.
The new jumper box seems to work fine - the now depleted battery only cranks about one and a half times before going dead, but with the box attached, it's like normal. I suspect the now 7 1/2 year old battery on this generator car will need replacement, too.
That clean LTD wagon looks like a fine bargain for a utility car. Not efficient by modern standards, but lots of usefulness for no money.
I think that's a 53-54 Plymouth.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/281480520412?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&fromMakeTrack=true
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/4733260057.html
http://modesto.craigslist.org/cto/4718945207.html
That T-Bird isn't exactly tasteful, but I've seen that kind of thing done to early Birds and Vettes in the 70s and 80s. Same money could probably buy a nice stock driver quality version of the same car. I'd go that way. They need period colors and wide whites.
Studebaker has to be really rare. I wonder if the paint could be buffed out.
http://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/4727614339.html
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Also, in a twisted sort of way, I'll confess that I like a few things about that rodded out '94 Corolla. Interior is totally tacky, but I kinda like the body flaring and what they tried to do with the front-end. I think it needs a bit more massaging to be more tasteful, but it was an interesting idea, at least.
Oh, as for that '53-54 Mopar in the woods, yeah, most likely a Plymouth. I'm guessing a '53, judging by what little I can make out of the trim. The ad says "V-8", but Plymouth didn't get a V-8 until 1955. But, the ad also says "1951 Dodge",..
At that point I got sick!
I've seen Studes and Packardbakers from that era at car shows from time to time, and had always noticed that the interiors seemed pretty nice for their price class. In those days, sometimes, it seemed like when the automakers would run out of money for "real" improvements such as modern engines or updated bodies, instead they'd put a bit of extra effort into the interior. So that was why the lack of armrests surprised me.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
A Lark V-8 convertible with 4-speed transmission would be fun---with some mods.
Ford tends to get credit with coming out with the first personal luxury coupes...first the 1956 Mark II, but then especially with the 4-seat Thunderbird for 1958. But I think the '53 Studes pretty much nailed the idea of what would ultimately surface as the likes of the Monte Carlo, Cutlass Supreme, Regal, the smaller cheaper T-bird, etc.
As for later years, I think it was more a lack of money and resources, rather than being clueless. The Lark, as you mentioned, was a good idea and popular for a few years. However the market was soon flooded with compacts, and, well, the Lark got kinda old.
Weren't those Larks actually fairly large inside, for a compact? They were based on the older 1953-58 cars, as Studebaker didn't have the money to come up with something truly new. But that might have worked in their favor, if you wanted a smaller car with more interior room. Even though Ford came out with the first "mid-size" cars for '62 with the Fairlane and Meteor, I wonder if the Lark was sort of an "accidental" midsize.
They were also pretty strong cars for a compact, with good towing capacity. At least, I saw one once, pulling a horse trailer on "Mr Ed" :-p
Studebaker was good at "making do with little". Unfortunately they wasted a lot of resources on the Avanti, one of those "love it or hate it" cars we see now and then from the D3.