Oh I see--you are suggesting not modifying the drivetrain and I was thinking that's the thing to do. If the idea is to keep the drivetrain as is, then I wouldn't modify the car at all, except maybe some safety items. If you're going to put in a modern drivetrain, it would be counter-productive not to modify the suspension, ride height, tires, brakes and steering.
Well, I'm not a purist by any means but if you were to do those things to that nice, original De Soto, you would no longer have a '53 De Soto you would have....well...something else!
Yes, and that's the whole point! LOL! You know, if you do it tastefully, 99% of folks won't even notice that the car has been modified, as they have no reference point--as in "Hey, wait a minute---all the 53 Desoto wagons I remember rode higher than that!"
This car was, in its time, a utilitarian workhorse, not a Bugatti. I see no blasphemy in giving it new life in a reinvigorated form where it can be enjoyed without worry of overheat, breakdown or accident.
Were it not so nice and so original I would have no problems with making mods.
If it were my car I would drive it like a '53 De Soto. I would drive at moderate speeds, keep a good distances from other cars and take corners carefully.
I don't think every old car needs a V-8 or a Mustang II front end or even disc brakes.
Now, if it were a ratty car I would have no problem doing those things!
I guess before I'd buy that De Soto I'd look for Chrysler with a hemi - when did those first appear? Then I'd have a reasonable power plant while keeping it stock.
The mechanic converted my '57 DeSoto to a more modern disc/drum setup, but mainly for ease of maintenance. Those "Total Contact"/center-plane or whatever-you-call-them front brakes, with the dual wheel cylinders, actually do a great job of slowing the car down, but they seem to go out of adjustment pretty quickly. And the rear drum brakes, which require a wheel puller to get off, are a real pain.
Also, I don't think they have self-adjusters on them. The setup that's going on them is from an M-body copcar, which uses big disc brakes up front and 11" drums in back, so I guess it'll basically stop like my '89 Gran Fury copcar did, only with about 400-500 lb extra weight.
I'm not sure what size brakes a '53 DeSoto would have, but my '57 had 12" drums all around. The only real issue I had with them was that after awhile they would start to groan, deep and loud, so I would take them in to get them cleaned and adjusted long before anything went too far out of whack.
Well first of all I'd dispute "original", and I haven't seen the underside nor run a magnet over the c ar---but presuming it is basically sound and has most of its original parts I'd say $8,000 to $10,000 is all the money in its present condition (about a #3 car)
That sounds reasonable to me. I was really shocked that it opened with a $15K bid, and that said bid was under reserve. I don't really follow cars this old, but I can't imagine someone paying a mint to own it.
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
The mechanic converted my '57 DeSoto to a more modern disc/drum setup, but mainly for ease of maintenance. Those "Total Contact"/center-plane or whatever-you-call-them front brakes, with the dual wheel cylinders, actually do a great job of slowing the car down, but they seem to go out of adjustment pretty quickly. And the rear drum brakes, which require a wheel puller to get off, are a real pain.
Also, I don't think they have self-adjusters on them. The setup that's going on them is from an M-body copcar, which uses big disc brakes up front and 11" drums in back, so I guess it'll basically stop like my '89 Gran Fury copcar did, only with about 400-500 lb extra weight.
I'm not sure what size brakes a '53 DeSoto would have, but my '57 had 12" drums all around. The only real issue I had with them was that after awhile they would start to groan, deep and loud, so I would take them in to get them cleaned and adjusted long before anything went too far out of whack.
When I was in the tool business I had a shop about to go out of business and I bought a lot of their tools and equipment to resell. Among those items was a like new rear drum puller for those early Chrysler products. I still had it ten years later so I tossed it. Center Plane brakes were NASTY and getting those rear drums off could be miserable even if you had that special puller.
I remember seeing a mechanic crank on that puller's center bolt with an impact gun to no avail.
He heated the drum with a torch and as soon as he turned his back the whole thing flew off!
The fronts were tricky to adjust and no, they sure weren't self adjusting.
Well first of all I'd dispute "original", and I haven't seen the underside nor run a magnet over the c ar---but presuming it is basically sound and has most of its original parts I'd say $8,000 to $10,000 is all the money in its present condition (about a #3 car)
So, after all of this, what would you peg as a reasonable price on that DeSoto, Shifty? Opening bid was $15K and didn't meet reserve.
That's probably all the money. Just because a car is unique, an oddball car can be tough to sell. People worry...what if....what if I get rear ended? Where will I find parts?
And for good reason! It's not a 55 Chevy where everything is reproduced!
That sounds reasonable to me. I was really shocked that it opened with a $15K bid, and that said bid was under reserve. I don't really follow cars this old, but I can't imagine someone paying a mint to own it.
I think (from reading some of Shifty's posts) that some people just use eBay to figure out how much their car is worth. If they get the reserve, great, but maybe they're just fishing for the "real" value for some reason. That value would be the highest losing bid.
Oh I see--you are suggesting not modifying the drivetrain and I was thinking that's the thing to do. If the idea is to keep the drivetrain as is, then I wouldn't modify the car at all, except maybe some safety items. If you're going to put in a modern drivetrain, it would be counter-productive not to modify the suspension, ride height, tires, brakes and steering.
Exactly. My preference would be to leave the drivetrain as is, except for safety items. However, if one were to modify the original drivetrain for better performance, then, sure, the other changes you described should be part of the package.
Were it not so nice and so original I would have no problems with making mods.
If it were my car I would drive it like a '53 De Soto. I would drive at moderate speeds, keep a good distances from other cars and take corners carefully.
I don't think every old car needs a V-8 or a Mustang II front end or even disc brakes.
Now, if it were a ratty car I would have no problem doing those things!
Bulls eye! I couldn't have expressed my thoughts better than you just did.
I guess before I'd buy that De Soto I'd look for Chrysler with a hemi - when did those first appear? Then I'd have a reasonable power plant while keeping it stock.
Chrysler introduced its 331 c.i.,180 hp Firepower hemi for the 1951 model year. It was standard in the New Yorker, Imperial and, I believe, the smaller Windsor body Saratoga that year. It was the most powerful stock engine in 1951, producing 20 more hp than the 331 c.i. 1951 Cadillac V8.
DeSoto and Dodge introduced optional, smaller versions of that hemi for the 1953 model year.
Chrysler also introduced power steering for 1951. It was the first domestic automaker to make PS available.
Yes, I agree. The car has rust and body issues and on the interior the upholstery or headliner material on the passenger side sail panel makes me think there are some issues under there. I think it is worth less than half of what he is asking.
I guess before I'd buy that De Soto I'd look for Chrysler with a hemi - when did those first appear? Then I'd have a reasonable power plant while keeping it stock.
Chrysler introduced its 331 c.i.,180 hp Firepower hemi for the 1951 model year. It was standard in the New Yorker, Imperial and, I believe, the smaller Windsor body Saratoga that year. It was the most powerful stock engine in 1951, producing 20 more hp than the 331 c.i. 1951 Cadillac V8.
DeSoto and Dodge introduced optional, smaller versions of that hemi for the 1953 model year.
Chrysler also introduced power steering for 1951. It was the first domestic automaker to make PS available.
DeSoto's Hemi, a 276.1 CID 2-bbl unit, came out for 1952, and put out 160 hp. That same year, Olds had a 303.7 CID V-8 that put out 145 hp or 160...I'm guessing that was the 2-bbl versus 4-bbl? So, for a brief moment at least, DeSoto might have held the record for hp per cubic inch in domestic cars...or at least, it was definitely in the forefront. That same year, Buick got 170 hp out of a 320.2 CID inline 8. That was only offered in the pricey Roadmaster that year. Lesser Buicks made do wit a 263.3 CID straight-8 that put out 120-128 hp. Mercury made do with a 255.4 CID unit with 125 hp.
Dodge came out with their "Red Ram" Hemi for 1953. It was a 241.3 CID mill that had 140 hp.
Interestingly, Chrysler and Dodge moved away from Hemi-head engines, while DeSoto seemed to embrace them. Every single '55-56 DeSoto, and every '57 DeSoto except for the Firesweep came standard with a Hemi-head engine. Meanwhile, with Chrysler, for 55-58 it was reserved for the New Yorker and 300 models. Lesser Windsors and Saratogas got a poly-head engine, which was cheaper to produce, and a bit lighter in weight, but had the drawback of a bit lower power-to-size ratio. After a couple years, I think at Dodge the Hemi-head engines were limited to the D-500 options.
Initially, the Hemi-head engine wasn't meant to be a performance engine. Rather, the engineers discovered that particular design ran better on the crappy quality, low-octane fuels that were available after World War II, compared to other designs. It was a design that gave a great power-to-CID ratio. The downside, however, was that it was heavy, and fairly complex, as its design required two sets of rocker shafts per head, which made for a larger, heavy head, giving it a look somewhat similar to today's DOHC engines.
With all those Mopars with hemis by that time, I'd have no inclination to get a 6...
A lot of buyers agreed with you, even when these cars were new. While the Powermaster wagon started at $3078 and sold 500 units, the pricier $3,351 Firedome, with the Hemi, managed 1100 units.
Over at Chrysler, their Windsor Town & Country wagon, which only had a 119 hp 264.5 CID 6-cyl, base priced for $3259, and sold 1,242 units. The one to have, the New Yorker Town & Country, with the 180 hp 331.1 Hemi, stickered for $3898 and sold 1,399 units.
For comparison, Buick offered two wagons. The cheapest was the Super, which base priced at $3,430, and had a 322 CID V-8 with 164 hp (manual) or 170 (automatic). It sold 1,830 units. The Roadmaster had a 188 hp 322, and base priced at $4,031. It had a standard Dynaflow, which I think represented about a $200 value by that time. It sold 670 units. Oldsmobile didn't offer any wagons at all in '53, something I hadn't realized, until consulting my old car book.
Ford really didn't have anything in this league. Their most expensive wagon, the '53 Mercury Monterey wagon, started at a mere $2,591. It sold a higher 7,719 units though.
I guess something like a Chrysler, DeSoto, or Buick wagon was something of a prestigious, glamorous luxury item back in those days. Sure, they had some utility about them, but in sort of a pre-historic Escalade/Navigator/Land Cruiser sort of way.
Hopefully the cold start repair will be easy. Car also gets a new battery.
It was an exasperating job getting it towed - first company Hagerty dispatched vanished with no word, second one was fine - total time from initial call to delivery at the shop at most a mile away, 4.5 hours.
Oh, and that's not a reflection low on the rear of the rear door (the broader area below continuing to the front is a reflection), it's a scratch I put on the car while pushing it out of the garage and brushing up against a door sensor. Fun times!
Aw, sorry about the damage, fin! As Stever mentioned, it's a fine-looking car, even on a flatbed! I have a similar "oopsie" on my C20 from where my now-wife got close and personal with a signpost many years ago. To this day it remains the most significant body damage on the truck, despite all I put it through...
2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
I was pretty livid when it happened, yelling "who the #@&% would design something like this", but I got over it. Now it's just more patina, a story to tell. It's near some other light damage that was on the car when I got it, so it might kind of blend in. I also recently found some good touch up paint, so it'll blend in OK enough. This is the most damage I've ever done to it, too. There's a definite crease if you look close. Amazing what can happen when being pushed at 1 mph. One good thing about an unrestored comfortably imperfect old car - you get over things.
Aw, sorry about the damage, fin! As Stever mentioned, it's a fine-looking car, even on a flatbed! I have a similar "oopsie" on my C20 from where my now-wife got close and personal with a signpost many years ago. To this day it remains the most significant body damage on the truck, despite all I put it through...
no badges and no plates. very odd. I'd like to see a shot of the driver's seat. That could help support/break the case. The cloudy headlights are just a matter of sitting outside, so that doesn't mean much.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Craig, if you had kept the right ones of all the old. Cars you had, wouldchaveca fairly valuable collection by now.
Yeah, I know.
I used to go through a LOT of cars. I would see something that I liked and I would buy it. I might hang on to it for six months, maybe even less before the novelty wore off and send it down the road. guess I enjoyed "the hunt". I wasn't curbstoning cars to make money and usually I didn't. I no longer find this little hobby enjoyable.
I am shocked at what people are getting or at least asking for these cars the
Were it not so nice and so original I would have no problems with making mods.
If it were my car I would drive it like a '53 De Soto. I would drive at moderate speeds, keep a good distances from other cars and take corners carefully.
I don't think every old car needs a V-8 or a Mustang II front end or even disc brakes.
Now, if it were a ratty car I would have no problem doing those things!
Bulls eye! I couldn't have expressed my thoughts better than you just did.
If I had a car like that De Soto or even that Grand Prix I would simply drive it like I drove our motorhomes. I wouldn't throw it around corners like a Miata and I would respect it's limitations and stopping distances. Yes, I would make sure it had seatbelts and maybe even a shoulder harness and, if possible I would install a dual master cylinder.
Oh yeah, those drums could fly off and actually dent the drywall. You really had to be careful.
I saw the aftermath of one of those drum pullers that had flown off. It hit a new Snap On toolbox and did more damage than I would have expected. I know I wouldn't have wanted to be standing in front of it!
the problem is that with a '53 Desoto automatic you'd be beating the crap out of it merely to stay up with traffic, to say nothing of overheating on hot days and the smell of oil blowby (no crankcase ventilation system, remember). It'd get old real fast. Your motorhome could easily outperform this car.
This is why people put Model B engines in a Model A and add overdrive--so they can actually go somewhere with it.
Were it not so nice and so original I would have no problems with making mods.
If it were my car I would drive it like a '53 De Soto. I would drive at moderate speeds, keep a good distances from other cars and take corners carefully.
I don't think every old car needs a V-8 or a Mustang II front end or even disc brakes.
Now, if it were a ratty car I would have no problem doing those things!
Bulls eye! I couldn't have expressed my thoughts better than you just did.
If I had a car like that De Soto or even that Grand Prix I would simply drive it like I drove our motorhomes. I wouldn't throw it around corners like a Miata and I would respect it's limitations and stopping distances. Yes, I would make sure it had seatbelts and maybe even a shoulder harness and, if possible I would install a dual master cylinder.
That's probably why Model A's don't bring a whole lot of money. They strain to hit 40 MPH and they sure can't stop very well. The coupes have no legroom and ZERO safety features. A minor accident can easily kill the passengers.
Yeah, I do remember the oil smell that we ignored when we were kids and I certainly remember how cars would overheat and vapor lock.
I remember once when I was 18 working in a gas station I had just finished cleaning up the gas pump area. I had spent a good two hours scrubbing everything down.
Then, two guys came in a POS 1960 Cadillac that was overheating so badly it was whistling loudly. They opened the hood and one of the guys took off the radiator cap! The huge stream of rusty water looked like Old Faithful and EVERTHING was brown! They simply filled up the radiator, waved at me and drove off.
the problem is that with a '53 Desoto automatic you'd be beating the crap out of it merely to stay up with traffic, to say nothing of overheating on hot days and the smell of oil blowby (no crankcase ventilation system, remember). It'd get old real fast. Your motorhome could easily outperform this car.
This is why people put Model B engines in a Model A and add overdrive--so they can actually go somewhere with it.
I think the only area a '53 DeSoto would give you problems is it you had to suddenly accelerate. Merging onto a freeway on-ramp where you have to get up to a high speed quickly, for example. Otherwise, that 21 or so second 0-60 time isn't going to be too much of a hinderance. And, as I've mentioned before, a friend of mine once had a '50 DeSoto Custom sedan, with the fluid drive. It did just fine with highway cruising. He didn't push it *too* hard, but it had no trouble rolling at around 65-70 mph or so. I think its 6-cyl was a bit smaller, like 236 CID compared to 250.6 for the '53...but then I'd imagine the wagon body of the '53 is a bit heavier than his sedan was.
As for crankcase ventilation, I don't think cars got that until 1968, anyway. Maybe they got it earlier in California, though. My '57 DeSoto just vents it right out of the oil filler cap, and so does my '67 Catalina. Neither one of those is particularly smelly.
I could see something like an old Model T or Model A being a pain to drive in modern traffic. Sometimes when I go up for the car show in Hershey, PA, I'll come across some poor [non-permissible content removed] driving one on I-83 doing about 40-45 mph, holding up traffic. The DeSoto would at least get up to highway speeds. Legal ones, at least. Now if you wanted to keep pace with the flow of traffic, and that happened to be 80-90 mph, you might have a bit of a problem...
Sure, as an everyday daily driver, it would become tiring pretty quickly. Honestly, most old cars do, once you get used to something modern. But as an occasional fair weather fun car, I think it would be fine. I think the biggest problem would be getting caught in the rain with an old car like this. The old windshield wipers sucked, horribly, and the defrosting/defogging systems of the era were marginal. Plus, no matter how nice the car is, most likely it's going to leak, somewhere...
I dunno. That would be a really scary car on a freeway. 70 mph is a lot of work for a 50s flathead. Remember, this is an old car with a mystery engine, and probably tired.
I dunno. That would be a really scary car on a freeway. 70 mph is a lot of work for a 50s flathead. Remember, this is an old car with a mystery engine, and probably tired.
I also remember the day my friend sold that '50 DeSoto, to a guy who lived up north of Baltimore somewhere. I followed him up in my '68 Dart when he went to deliver it, so I could give him a ride back.
That was probably a 50 or so mile ride, mostly highway, but it was also rush hour, after work, so lots of stop and go driving...not a "true" highway experience. But, there had been times previously, where I'd ride along with him to a car show, or caravan with him to a car show, in my '57 DeSoto, and his car seemed to do fine, at least on the Baltimore Washington Parkway and the Baltimore Beltway.
His car was also in pretty good shape though...so Lord knows what kind of adventure you might have with an engine that has issues that you don't know about...
Description: "This sliced and diced 1959 Dodge body was mated with a 1981 Cadillac Sedan Deville lower section that included the complete drivetrain, floors, firewall, etc. This means you have climate control, cruise control, properly working gauges and all luxuries of the Cadillac while having the looks of a 1959 Big Finned Custom Car. The frame and suspension are relatively stock except for the addition of hydraulics on the front so the front of the car can be raised for steep driveways."
Instead of doing all that cutting and force-fitting, I wonder how hard it would have been to just drop a Dodge body down on a Cadillac frame? The wheelbases are actually pretty close...122" for the Dodge, and 121.5" for the Cadillac. I don't know if that would make things any easier though. The Dodge had a ladder frame, where the body sat down on top of it, whereas the Caddy would have a perimeter frame.
Still, the overall effect is, well, interesting.
Years ago, someone sent me some pics of a project he was working, where he was taking a Lincoln Continental Mark VIII, and trying to put '57 DeSoto Firesweep sheetmetal onto it. I think I still have them, somewhere. I don't know if he ever finished or not though. I think this was back in the late 1990's.
Interesting discussion. My very first car was a '53 Desoto...bought in the late 50's for $35 at the corner gas station. Speed was adequate but it really wallowed around corners. Tranny was the semi-automatic which worked OK. The thing I remember most is that it was roomy, and a perfect place to hang out with the girlfriends. Lots of good times.
It did have a Hemi, but I don't remember what model it was. Motor said "Firedome" I believe. Kind of a light green color with a tan mohair type interior.
Kept it 'til I went into the service, and while in Germany bought a used '55 VW Beetle. What a night and day difference.
Yes, back then moving from a domestic to a foreign car, or vice-versa, was so shocking it was like....well...being dropped in a foreign country, or with some foreign cars, another universe. This startling contrast is no longer experienced by American drivers---for better or worse I can't say.
But I remember my first foreign car---with such strang objects---a Tachometer! Wooden dashboard! Actual brakes and steering! (not all foreign cars had these however).
My buddy had a '51 Meadowbrook I think it was called. We beat the crap out of that car but as I recall it rarely broke down. I had a '55 Studebaker V8 at the time and of course I could slaughter him, but I think his was a better made car.
Interesting discussion. My very first car was a '53 Desoto...bought in the late 50's for $35 at the corner gas station. Speed was adequate but it really wallowed around corners. Tranny was the semi-automatic which worked OK. The thing I remember most is that it was roomy, and a perfect place to hang out with the girlfriends. Lots of good times.
It did have a Hemi, but I don't remember what model it was. Motor said "Firedome" I believe. Kind of a light green color with a tan mohair type interior.
Kept it 'til I went into the service, and while in Germany bought a used '55 VW Beetle. What a night and day difference.
If it had the Hemi, then it was the Firedome. That was the name on both the engine and the model. My Granddad had a '53 Firedome 4-door sedan that he bought from his brother in law in 1978. It was a light green color as well. I think it was this color...
So true Shifty… I gained a lot of respect for European cars during my years there. I loved driving on the Autobahn, foot to the floor in my little ’55 VW with its whopping 36hp, and watching the big Mercedes and BMW 501s flying by. I was stationed midway between Munich and Salzberg, and the roads were much nicer than here in the States.
When I got out of the service in ‘65, all my friends were fully involved in muscle-car mania, street racing and weekends at the drag strips. Most kids back then got out of school, got a job, and bought a new Chevelle SS, a GTO, or a Mopar of some kind. I kind of did the same, and had a string of new muscle cars, although mine were all Mercurys. Seemed like no one kept a car more than a year or two, nor had any interest in foreign cars.
I went back to German cars in the early 80's, as the domestics just didn't do it for me. Think I've only owned German cars since. It is truly amazing how much market share the imports have today.
Oh you were in the service in the mid-60s too, hah? Scary time--just before things got hot. I wish they had sent me to Germany.
If you owned a foreign car in the 60s, you were...well....regarded as 'quirky' by most Americans. You were definitely out-gunned in the size and power department, but a Mini Cooper could still give fits to any American car on a twisty road---leave it in the dust. American cars of the time were pretty evil-handling.
BMW and Mercedes made owning a foreign car respectable in the 1970s, and in a way "normal". The Japanese hit their stride with the first Accord. British full size family sedans were just awful (albeit pretty, very pretty). The Audi 5000 put Audi on the map.
The auto industry was a real battleground in the 70s and 80s. Anyone with a good nose could wake up and smell the coffee, and it was definitely a foreign roast.
You have that right about the 70s and 80s. What started out as a low cost alternative for people who needed economy, ended up in a full blown revolution.
And yes, I was in the service from '62 to '65. Good timing. Was in Germany when JFK got shot, but before 'Nam got hot. And I agree most owners of foreign cars back then were "quirky". That describes the ones I knew perfectly.
The '83 Audi 5000 was my next step into German cars...didn't care for it much. Loved the quality of the car, but it was quite gutless, and I hated the front wheel drive. Graduated to BMW in '86 with a 535i, then on to Mercedes. Haven't looked back. I know they scare you out of warranty, but I've had my current '97 MB (E420 135k) for 17 years, and it runs like a champ. I keep saying I will replace it when it breaks, but it hasn't yet. Knock on wood.
Comments
This car was, in its time, a utilitarian workhorse, not a Bugatti. I see no blasphemy in giving it new life in a reinvigorated form where it can be enjoyed without worry of overheat, breakdown or accident.
If it were my car I would drive it like a '53 De Soto. I would drive at moderate speeds, keep a good distances from other cars and take corners carefully.
I don't think every old car needs a V-8 or a Mustang II front end or even disc brakes.
Now, if it were a ratty car I would have no problem doing those things!
Also, I don't think they have self-adjusters on them. The setup that's going on them is from an M-body copcar, which uses big disc brakes up front and 11" drums in back, so I guess it'll basically stop like my '89 Gran Fury copcar did, only with about 400-500 lb extra weight.
I'm not sure what size brakes a '53 DeSoto would have, but my '57 had 12" drums all around. The only real issue I had with them was that after awhile they would start to groan, deep and loud, so I would take them in to get them cleaned and adjusted long before anything went too far out of whack.
When I was in the tool business I had a shop about to go out of business and I bought a lot of their tools and equipment to resell. Among those items was a like new rear drum puller for those early Chrysler products. I still had it ten years later so I tossed it. Center Plane brakes were NASTY and getting those rear drums off could be miserable even if you had that special puller.
I remember seeing a mechanic crank on that puller's center bolt with an impact gun to no avail.
He heated the drum with a torch and as soon as he turned his back the whole thing flew off!
The fronts were tricky to adjust and no, they sure weren't self adjusting.
And for good reason! It's not a 55 Chevy where everything is reproduced!
In the early 80's I stumbled into one of these only mine was white with blue interior.
Every bit as nice as this one with factory A/C and NO rust anywhere.
I bought it for 700.00. Kept it a year, got bored with it and sold it for 1100.00.
I think this guy is nuts!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pontiac-Grand-Prix-2-Door-Coupe-Purrs-like-a-kitten-/291290778973?forcerrptr=true&hash=item43d2488d5d&item=291290778973&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
DeSoto and Dodge introduced optional, smaller versions of that hemi for the 1953 model year.
Chrysler also introduced power steering for 1951. It was the first domestic automaker to make PS available.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
Dodge came out with their "Red Ram" Hemi for 1953. It was a 241.3 CID mill that had 140 hp.
Interestingly, Chrysler and Dodge moved away from Hemi-head engines, while DeSoto seemed to embrace them. Every single '55-56 DeSoto, and every '57 DeSoto except for the Firesweep came standard with a Hemi-head engine. Meanwhile, with Chrysler, for 55-58 it was reserved for the New Yorker and 300 models. Lesser Windsors and Saratogas got a poly-head engine, which was cheaper to produce, and a bit lighter in weight, but had the drawback of a bit lower power-to-size ratio. After a couple years, I think at Dodge the Hemi-head engines were limited to the D-500 options.
Initially, the Hemi-head engine wasn't meant to be a performance engine. Rather, the engineers discovered that particular design ran better on the crappy quality, low-octane fuels that were available after World War II, compared to other designs. It was a design that gave a great power-to-CID ratio. The downside, however, was that it was heavy, and fairly complex, as its design required two sets of rocker shafts per head, which made for a larger, heavy head, giving it a look somewhat similar to today's DOHC engines.
Over at Chrysler, their Windsor Town & Country wagon, which only had a 119 hp 264.5 CID 6-cyl, base priced for $3259, and sold 1,242 units. The one to have, the New Yorker Town & Country, with the 180 hp 331.1 Hemi, stickered for $3898 and sold 1,399 units.
For comparison, Buick offered two wagons. The cheapest was the Super, which base priced at $3,430, and had a 322 CID V-8 with 164 hp (manual) or 170 (automatic). It sold 1,830 units. The Roadmaster had a 188 hp 322, and base priced at $4,031. It had a standard Dynaflow, which I think represented about a $200 value by that time. It sold 670 units. Oldsmobile didn't offer any wagons at all in '53, something I hadn't realized, until consulting my old car book.
Ford really didn't have anything in this league. Their most expensive wagon, the '53 Mercury Monterey wagon, started at a mere $2,591. It sold a higher 7,719 units though.
I guess something like a Chrysler, DeSoto, or Buick wagon was something of a prestigious, glamorous luxury item back in those days. Sure, they had some utility about them, but in sort of a pre-historic Escalade/Navigator/Land Cruiser sort of way.
Hopefully the cold start repair will be easy. Car also gets a new battery.
It was an exasperating job getting it towed - first company Hagerty dispatched vanished with no word, second one was fine - total time from initial call to delivery at the shop at most a mile away, 4.5 hours.
Oh, and that's not a reflection low on the rear of the rear door (the broader area below continuing to the front is a reflection), it's a scratch I put on the car while pushing it out of the garage and brushing up against a door sensor. Fun times!
http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4754264007.html
Car looks OK enough but missing hood badge and cloudy headlights, I'm calling BS
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I used to go through a LOT of cars. I would see something that I liked and I would buy it. I might hang on to it for six months, maybe even less before the novelty wore off and send it down the road. guess I enjoyed "the hunt". I wasn't curbstoning cars to make money and usually I didn't. I no longer find this little hobby enjoyable.
I am shocked at what people are getting or at least asking for these cars the
This is why people put Model B engines in a Model A and add overdrive--so they can actually go somewhere with it.
Yeah, I do remember the oil smell that we ignored when we were kids and I certainly remember how cars would overheat and vapor lock.
I remember once when I was 18 working in a gas station I had just finished cleaning up the gas pump area. I had spent a good two hours scrubbing everything down.
Then, two guys came in a POS 1960 Cadillac that was overheating so badly it was whistling loudly. They opened the hood and one of the guys took off the radiator cap! The huge stream of rusty water looked like Old Faithful and EVERTHING was brown! They simply filled up the radiator, waved at me and drove off.
Yes, I do remember.
As for crankcase ventilation, I don't think cars got that until 1968, anyway. Maybe they got it earlier in California, though. My '57 DeSoto just vents it right out of the oil filler cap, and so does my '67 Catalina. Neither one of those is particularly smelly.
I could see something like an old Model T or Model A being a pain to drive in modern traffic. Sometimes when I go up for the car show in Hershey, PA, I'll come across some poor [non-permissible content removed] driving one on I-83 doing about 40-45 mph, holding up traffic. The DeSoto would at least get up to highway speeds. Legal ones, at least. Now if you wanted to keep pace with the flow of traffic, and that happened to be 80-90 mph, you might have a bit of a problem...
Sure, as an everyday daily driver, it would become tiring pretty quickly. Honestly, most old cars do, once you get used to something modern. But as an occasional fair weather fun car, I think it would be fine. I think the biggest problem would be getting caught in the rain with an old car like this. The old windshield wipers sucked, horribly, and the defrosting/defogging systems of the era were marginal. Plus, no matter how nice the car is, most likely it's going to leak, somewhere...
That was probably a 50 or so mile ride, mostly highway, but it was also rush hour, after work, so lots of stop and go driving...not a "true" highway experience. But, there had been times previously, where I'd ride along with him to a car show, or caravan with him to a car show, in my '57 DeSoto, and his car seemed to do fine, at least on the Baltimore Washington Parkway and the Baltimore Beltway.
His car was also in pretty good shape though...so Lord knows what kind of adventure you might have with an engine that has issues that you don't know about...
Description: "This sliced and diced 1959 Dodge body was mated with a 1981 Cadillac Sedan Deville lower section that included the complete drivetrain, floors, firewall, etc. This means you have climate control, cruise control, properly working gauges and all luxuries of the Cadillac while having the looks of a 1959 Big Finned Custom Car. The frame and suspension are relatively stock except for the addition of hydraulics on the front so the front of the car can be raised for steep driveways."
Still, the overall effect is, well, interesting.
Years ago, someone sent me some pics of a project he was working, where he was taking a Lincoln Continental Mark VIII, and trying to put '57 DeSoto Firesweep sheetmetal onto it. I think I still have them, somewhere. I don't know if he ever finished or not though. I think this was back in the late 1990's.
It did have a Hemi, but I don't remember what model it was. Motor said "Firedome" I believe. Kind of a light green color with a tan mohair type interior.
Kept it 'til I went into the service, and while in Germany bought a used '55 VW Beetle. What a night and day difference.
But I remember my first foreign car---with such strang objects---a Tachometer! Wooden dashboard! Actual brakes and steering! (not all foreign cars had these however).
My buddy had a '51 Meadowbrook I think it was called. We beat the crap out of that car but as I recall it rarely broke down. I had a '55 Studebaker V8 at the time and of course I could slaughter him, but I think his was a better made car.
When I got out of the service in ‘65, all my friends were fully involved in muscle-car mania, street racing and weekends at the drag strips. Most kids back then got out of school, got a job, and bought a new Chevelle SS, a GTO, or a Mopar of some kind. I kind of did the same, and had a string of new muscle cars, although mine were all Mercurys. Seemed like no one kept a car more than a year or two, nor had any interest in foreign cars.
I went back to German cars in the early 80's, as the domestics just didn't do it for me. Think I've only owned German cars since. It is truly amazing how much market share the imports have today.
If you owned a foreign car in the 60s, you were...well....regarded as 'quirky' by most Americans. You were definitely out-gunned in the size and power department, but a Mini Cooper could still give fits to any American car on a twisty road---leave it in the dust. American cars of the time were pretty evil-handling.
BMW and Mercedes made owning a foreign car respectable in the 1970s, and in a way "normal". The Japanese hit their stride with the first Accord. British full size family sedans were just awful (albeit pretty, very pretty). The Audi 5000 put Audi on the map.
The auto industry was a real battleground in the 70s and 80s. Anyone with a good nose could wake up and smell the coffee, and it was definitely a foreign roast.
And yes, I was in the service from '62 to '65. Good timing. Was in Germany when JFK got shot, but before 'Nam got hot. And I agree most owners of foreign cars back then were "quirky". That describes the ones I knew perfectly.
The '83 Audi 5000 was my next step into German cars...didn't care for it much. Loved the quality of the car, but it was quite gutless, and I hated the front wheel drive. Graduated to BMW in '86 with a 535i, then on to Mercedes. Haven't looked back. I know they scare you out of warranty, but I've had my current '97 MB (E420 135k) for 17 years, and it runs like a champ. I keep saying I will replace it when it breaks, but it hasn't yet. Knock on wood.