Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

Hey, I was pretty close on that one. Yeah, unless it has a brake upgrade (and judging from that single system rusted, non-power master cylinder, I doubt it), I'd say it's a Deathtrap.

A Sidekick? They should give it to you for free.

stever said:

I see a lot of Sidekicks and Trackers here too. Probably just as safe as that Ranchero, just not as "cowboy".

4 X 4 low miles 1990 suzuki sidekick - $2600

Found a price on the yellow Ranchero - $10,200.

texases

I thought something looked odd under the hood of that Ranchero. Besides have a newer 2-circuit brake system, it doesn't have the shock towers like old Falcons of that era had:


So I'm guessing they put a front suspension from some GM vehicle under that Ranchero body. Maybe they DID do enough work to make it drivable!

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, it does have a dual master, but no power brake, so if it's now a disk brake car, that's going to require some major foot pressure.

No power steering, no AC, no sound insulation at firewall. I'm thinking this is going to be no fun to drive except for pushing the loud pedal in a straight line for 15 minutes or so.

andre1969

qbrozen said:

ANY miles are high miles on a Tracker or Sidekick. ;b

Actually, my housemate had a '98 Tracker that made it to around 134,000 miles, before he traded it on a 2006 Xterra. Its transmission was troubleprone at first, needing rebuilding an "overhaul" roughly every 20,000 miles. It had a 60K mile powertrain warranty on it, so I was convinced the dealer did the bare minimum to get it out of warranty. I remember it going in around 20K, 40K, and just before 60K.

Then it died again around 86K. This time, I had my friend take it to a local mechanic, who had rebuilt the transmission in my old '79 Newport, and done other various servicings. They got it running again for about 60 bucks, but said that It probably wouldn't last much longer. And, around 92K it died again. We found a used transmission out of a '95 or '96 something-or-other, for around $650. I can't remember what it was called, but it wasn't a Sidekick and wasn't a Tracker. I want to say "Sun" was in its name? A local shop put it in for around $400-450, and guaranteed it for 90 days. It acted up a little, so we took it back to the shop. Ironically, they sent it out to the place that got it running for 60 bucks (I think it was a torque converter switch or something), and then that transmission never gave another lick of trouble.

Oh, on the subject of those damn things, there's actually one over at my grandmother's house right now. My uncle let some friend of the family store it there. In theory, only for a few weeks, but it's been sitting there over a month now.

Mr_Shiftright

Certainly a nominee for one of the worst cars in the world.

texases

Tracker's a lot better than the Samurai though, right?

stever

Maybe I'll stumble on an X-90 instead. Have seen one around in recent weeks. Could likely get stuck way off in the desert with either.

ab348

stever said:

Maybe I'll stumble on an X-90 instead. Have seen one around in recent weeks. Could likely get stuck way off in the desert with either.

Perhaps the most useless vehicle ever built.

stever

Maybe in another year or two I'll be able to find a Murano CrossCabriolet at a good price.

fintail

It lives - I got the fintail back today. It was running fine, and only a little dirty. No generator light. The official verdict? After much work, they tracked it down to a "stuck coil" in the voltage regulator (which was originally replaced without my asking when the generator was first rebuilt). The invoice shows they put some labor into it, but it was all done with no charge as this happened after the generator rebuild. Now summer driving season is over. Oh well.

qbrozen

a college roommate of mine had a Sidekick (AKA, The Flipmobile). Went through 2 manual transmissions in less than 100k miles. The other great thing that car did was to literally and violently eliminate its own exhaust via backfire explosion in the driveway shortly after being shut off and the driver was already in the house.

gsemike

http://jerseyshore.craigslist.org/cto/4610438113.html Pictures are from a distance, but I've seen worse for this money. I wonder if that is the original color combo

andre1969

That is a really odd color combo. It does look like a factory correct color. I think it's called "Aquatic Turquoise". If it is original though, I imagine it would be a special order. Even though they did give you more color choices in those days, I don't think they gave you THAT much choice!

ab348

andre1969 said:

That is a really odd color combo. It does look like a factory correct color. I think it's called "Aquatic Turquoise". If it is original though, I imagine it would be a special order. Even though they did give you more color choices in those days, I don't think they gave you THAT much choice!

You sure it's not silver? If so it is the exact same color combo used on Frank Cannon's Lincoln on the series "Cannon" that was current in 1972 - silver paint, black vinyl roof, red leather/vinyl interior. Popular at the time.

andre1969

It looks sort of bluish green to me, unless my eyesight is going bad. FWIW, the color chart I looked up also had a color called "Sumatra Green" that had sort of an aquatic hue to it.

Silver with a red/burgundy interior can be a really nice combination, though. Back in late 1996 I looked at a '76 or so Newport that was for sale locally. 4-door hardtop, silver, burgundy vinyl interior and, I think, a burgundy top. It had a 400, IIRC. I started it up though, and it was missing half of the exhaust system, was leaking fuel in the engine compartment, and the rear quarters were rusty where they tucked under at the bottom. It actually looked good at a quick glance, but when I saw it up close with all those problems I passed.

My '86 Monte Carlo was a 2-tone gray over silver, and had a burgundy cloth interior. It was pretty sharp looking, back in the day. By the time Mom gave it to me though, the hood and roof were faded pretty badly.

Wow, it's kind of wild to think how fast the time has gone by. I hadn't even thought about that silver Newport for a long time. At the time, it was an 18 year old car (well, okay, 19 model years). And yet now, another 18 years have slipped past...

stever

Ate lunch at a sort of fancy golf course restaurant today. What's in the parking lot? Yep, yet another Sidekick. These things are pretty common here.

(and yes , it was in the car parking lot - it wasn't stashed away with the golf cars. )

stever

And speaking of Trackers and Sidekicks and modded Rancheros, please take our survey:

What safety technologies do you want in your next car?

explorerx4

Too bad the paint on the front clip of that Cadillac doesn't quite match the rest of the exterior.

Michaell

stever said:

Ate lunch at a sort of fancy golf course restaurant today. What's in the parking lot? Yep, yet another Sidekick. These things are pretty common here.

(and yes , it was in the car parking lot - it wasn't stashed away with the golf cars. )

Which course? I've been investigating the LC area and found there are two or three there.

stever

This was Sonoma Ranch. They went banko a few years back and another, older club bought the course from the developers/HOA and relocated there, selling their old course nearer the city center for redevelopment. The other course is Picacho Hills which looks a bit higher end. Just looked up others and there's one called Red Hawk that looks fancy but haven't been out that way (that area is being touted as the eco-green area). When you visit us, Sonoma will probably be the closest.

stever

1960 TRIUMPH TR3A - $15500



Or maybe you'd prefer a 1969 MORRIS MINOR WOODIE - $10200?

Mr_Shiftright

Pretty decent price on the TR3A--it'd be worth more if it were a TR3B. It should be pretty nice for that money, though. They are very tough to restore.

A Morris Minor Woodie with RHD would be, at the very best, a "putt-around" town type of vehicle. They are pretty slow, and with right hand drive, you have to be quite careful on any kind of highway.

ab348

What makes the TR3 tough to restore? Parts availability? I would have thought they'd have repro/hobbyist support. I always liked the look of them with the cut-down door line.

Mr_Shiftright

Well they are very rust prone first of all, and have lots of hard to access boxes and recesses. Beyond that, they are pretty much all bolted together, and once you take one apart, getting everything to fit back on can be a real bear of a job. It's like when you take a watch apart.

Parts aren't a big problem unless they are hard to find little trim pieces. Fun car. I'd love to have one. A REAL British sports car. Wind in your air, rain in your face, a chassis that feels like a 17th century British dog cart, heavy gear box, heavy steering, lots of noise, oil smells, rattles, and always the risk that you might not make it back home. Makes a Miata driver look like a decadent Roman emperor luxuriating in his bath.

gsemike

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/4684675618.html Damn shame

stickguy

that is a bummer. I like that style Camaro. Not going to be cheap to fix, and I doubt that a 73 is worth that much in the end anyway.

Mr_Shiftright

'73 Camaro resto-mod? he's looking for matching #s Z28 money for this bender. Not likely. $3500 maybe, for engine, trans and pieces? and probably a total anyway, so it'll carry a salvage title. You can buy stock factory show quality for $18K, so do the math here on a bent resto-mod.

One of those "don't waste my time" ads (translation---don't make me look at reality).

Puzzling, though. If someone hit him, then he got paid off, so he must have bought the wreck back from the insurance company ? Might be trying to double-dip here.

stickguy

maybe it wasn't insured, and it was a private deal?

Mr_Shiftright

Pretty expensive private deal. That's a whole heap of damage. Hmm...the listing has been deleted.

(to latecomers--we are discussing an ad for a 1973 Camaro with non-stock engine, hit hard in front and rear, asking price $10,000 as is).

Look at this one. Same year, same car, same price: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4682604587.html

Gee, which one should you choose?

And look at all the money put into this '73 resto mod---asking $12,5K.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/4678800132.html

So the original seller was probably hooted off the stage, I'd guess.

fintail

I remember back in the day, 90s, the most annoying trait of my first car (66 Galaxie, 390) was its ability to flood, hard starting, and its love of stalling - especially at startup and when cold. Very cold blooded car The sputtering engine that lasted until the car was fully warm, and the black smoke, put me off carburetors.

Fast forward to today - I go to visit the fintail and clean it after it spent 5 weeks in the shop. It ran fine when I drove it back. I tried to start it - cranked and cranked, it would sputter, but not start. I could smell exhaust, so I knew it was generally working. It seemed familiar. I cranked some more, finally got it to run by giving it lots of gas, it smoked so badly that if I had lit a match in the strong smelling dark cloud, there probably would have been an explosion. It was also running very rough. I wonder what happened. I then gave up, cleaned the car, and started it again. This time, it fired right up, but ran poorly. It seems to be flooding - but this is a fuel injected car. I hope that system isn't finally wearing out, as I suspect it is expensive. The car had been so well behaved until the generator issue. Now this, which I can't imagine is connected.

gsemike

This probably varies wildly around the country, but here, restomods seem to be bringing decent money. Of course, not two restomods are the same, but id that was a good one it could have been worth low 20s before it got it.
Hit on the front and back? A good bodyshop would have to go over it and then there's a deduct for all the bother so 10 seems very aggressive.
Sometime it can be tough getting fair value for a classic car unless you have it insured through Hagerty. I hope the guy didn't get burnt. I remember in the late 80s, dealing with an accident involving my 70 Chevelle which was completely done. Values weren't what they are now, but no matter what I said to the insurance company, they stood firm that a 70 Chevelle was worth a grand, even with a fairly new paint job that cost almost 3 grand

gsemike

I'll certainly take that Camaro over this http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/4660291322.html

explorerx4

That 2nd Camaro that Shifty posted reminds me that on of my BIL's had one similar, built 350, tubbed rear end, line lock, nitrous system. He didn't let me drive it using the nitrous.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: 69 Ambassador SST -- overpriced by half. Try $4750, take $4000 in a heartbeat, even $3K is okay. If seller wasn't so lazy, he could clean it, fix the "gas line" (whatever that means), polish it, register it, put the hubcaps on, put plates on it, and get if off his lawn. At $8000 asking price that thing will have a tree growing through it pretty soon.

fintail

Replying to myself - did some digging, the fintail's flooding issue is likely the cold start valve. I've done virtually no work to the fuel system in this car during the almost 20 years I've had it, so I guess that part owes me nothing. The car is doing what it can to remain a project car.

fintail said:

I remember back in the day, 90s, the most annoying trait of my first car (66 Galaxie, 390) was its ability to flood, hard starting, and its love of stalling - especially at startup and when cold. Very cold blooded car The sputtering engine that lasted until the car was fully warm, and the black smoke, put me off carburetors.

stever

You did run it pretty hard over the summer.

Mr_Shiftright

Don't forget to adjust the valves---they like to tighten up on that motor.

fintail

Which gets me even more, as it performed flawlessly on those runs.

Regarding valves, that's probably the big job that it needs, and I am neglecting due to cost and work. I think it needs valve seals - for several years it has smoked a little upon deceleration. I don't think an adjustment would help.

stever said:

You did run it pretty hard over the summer.

Mr_Shiftright

A valve adjustment is no big deal and those engines are very sensitive to proper clearances. But if your stem seals are bad, you could be fouling a plug. As you probably know, you really have to rev the crap out of these engines to keep them smooth running.

fintail

I am pretty sure the seals aren't up to spec - I get smoke upon downshifting/deceleration - but when the car is moving along, there is no smoke, or not enough to notice. I've had someone follow me and tell me when it smokes. There was a time when I did get a fouling plug - when a piston ring broke. That was 17 years ago, and after that time consuming and pricey repair, things have been pretty OK.

I think the valves in these cars also need a special set of wrenches, which I lack (along with garage space, time, and patience). It'll probably eventually need a valve job, which around here will set me back maybe 2500-3000. But the oil consumption is so low even with the smoke - I add less than a quart between yearly oil changes - that it isn't a priority yet.

I had to rev it way up just to get it to run, when it was flooding. They do rev high, and like to be pushed - it'll bog down in city traffic unless I downshift and keep it moving. I went to look at the cold start valve this morning - there is definitely some probably longterm seepage around the piece, along with petroleum smell. It might be going. I couldn't start the car, as I apparently drained the battery the other day - three cranks and it was flat. I'll charge up my jumper box (I don't want to jump it with the modern car) and try next weekend.

Mr_Shiftright said:

A valve adjustment is no big deal and those engines are very sensitive to proper clearances. But if your stem seals are bad, you could be fouling a plug. As you probably know, you really have to rev the crap out of these engines to keep them smooth running.

stever

Few hobbies are cheap.

Glad I don't golf - it's $39 to $49 a pop for green fees around here.

stickguy

that is cheap compared to many areas steve.

Fin, if you can see it that easily, I assume it is also an easy swap. So unless it is some brutally expensive unit, might as well swap it out.

isellhondas

Yes, I'm almost sure those do require a special wrench or two. They are made by, I believe a german company called Hazet or Stahlwille. A tool company called Assenmacher used to sell these. I knew the owner.

It sounds like you may have worn valve guides based on your symptoms. If you pull the head to replace these you may as well just do a valve job at the same time.

By doing the valve job you may increase the compression enough that you actually increase your smoking and oil consumption.

Maybe just best to drive it as it is considering how little oil it's using.

Mr_Shiftright

Those valves are pricey.

fintail

Hazet wrenches, I think that's it. I remember that name. I barely have normal wrenches.

When the valve job is $3K and the quart of oil is $4, it's not a tough decision.

Here's what I think is the offending part. It's right on the side of the FI manifold, so it is in plain view:



It makes sense that a system controlling cold engine fuel delivery might be responsible. Just guessing based on what everything else costs, it's a $400 part.

So now, the car gets to slumber another week, which is annoying, as I want to go out and drive.

isellhondas said:

Yes, I'm almost sure those do require a special wrench or two. They are made by, I believe a german company called Hazet or Stahlwille. A tool company called Assenmacher used to sell these. I knew the owner.

It sounds like you may have worn valve guides based on your symptoms. If you pull the head to replace these you may as well just do a valve job at the same time.

By doing the valve job you may increase the compression enough that you actually increase your smoking and oil consumption.

Maybe just best to drive it as it is considering how little oil it's using.

isellhondas

Yep, I looked and Assenmacher is still alive and kicking.

I also looked on Ebay for Mercedes wrenches and they are available. Any shop that works on
older Mercedes will already have these tools.

I was once again reminded just how EXPENSIVE quality tools are. These are not Harbor Freight quality!

Mr_Shiftright

I think the tool is a 17mm crowfoot. Valve clearance and ignition point clearances are critical on these cars.

yeah the cold start valve could be leaking--it's basically another injector but it gives a longer duration squirt. I don't recall if yours is electrically operated or not.

fintail

Luckily my car was converted to electronic ignition maybe 12-13 years ago, so no more issues with points. I think I got a new distributor last year, too. The electronic ignition made the car much happier on cold damp days.

I have no idea how to adjust valves. That'd be something for an expert. Heck, that cold start piece has a weird fitting on the side I don't know if I can remove - if it's just an hour of labor, it'd be less stress to take it in.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I think the tool is a 17mm crowfoot. Valve clearance and ignition point clearances are critical on these cars.

yeah the cold start valve could be leaking--it's basically another injector but it gives a longer duration squirt. I don't recall if yours is electrically operated or not.

isellhondas

If you don't have metric flare nut wrenches, do NOT attempt to take off that fitting.

I once saw a Civic where a do it yourselfer tried unscrewing the oxygen sensor with a crescent
wrench. Of course, he rounded it off and the shop had to pull the exhaust manifold to fix it.

I HAVE the flare nut wrenches but I still think I would pay the hour labor charge!

Michaell

stever said:

Few hobbies are cheap.

Glad I don't golf - it's $39 to $49 a pop for green fees around here.

Steve, I pay $39 a round - that's with my resident discount and twilight rates.

There are a couple of courses not far from me that are ~$100 per round.

So, $40-50 is not a bad price.