Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

ab348

bhill2 said:

uplanderguy said:

Was a 'Jetway' a Powerglide, or was it really different other than in name? I wasn't aware or had forgotten that Olds had a two-speed automatic that late. I think I knew that Pontiac did, in their Tempest/LeMans series.

My understanding is that, unlike the Powerglide, the Jetaway had a variable pitch torque converter.

Only through 1967. For the last 2 years of production it had a fixed stator converter.

andre1969

ab348 said:

It is cool though that it kicks down into "first" gear (ratio is actually closer to a 3-speed's second gear) when the throttle is mashed at any speed under 55mph.

I just thought of something...is it possible that a 2-speed might actually be quicker than a 3-speed under some circumstances? I don't have the GM ratios memorized, but with Chrysler, the Torqueflite was 2.45:1, 1.45:1, and 1:1, while the Powerflite was something like 1.72:1 and 1:1. In my DeSoto, if you got the Torqueflite you got a 3.31:1 axle, while the Powerflite got you a 3.54:1.

So, in certain situations where the 2-speed would downshift to first, but the 3-speed would only downshift to second, wouldn't the 2-speed be quicker? For instance, if both were rolling along around 50 mph and you punched them? I guess the 3-speed would hold second gear for a longer time though, while the 2-speed would have to upshift sooner?

I guess it's also possible that some 3-speeds might even shift down into first if you punched them at 50 mph? From a standstill, some of my old cars will hold first gear if you floor it, until you're into the 50 mph range. But, accelerating from a standstill is different from passing situations, so maybe they don't? These are also cars with tall axle ratios... 2.56:1 (Catalina), 2.45:1 (New Yorkers), 2.41:1 (LeMans), so something with a quicker axle would probably be less likely to downshift.

ab348

In my case the Cutlass has only a 2.78:1 axle, so I need all the help I can get off the line. Unless I want to spend big bucks on replacing the rear end with something like a 3.23, this seems like a decent option.

Michaell

Fully restored or do the work yourself?

Weigh in with your opinions here ....

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/35020/ford/mustang/which-to-purchase#latest

Michaell

Project car or too far gone?

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/35035/general/x/what-should-i-do-with-my-old-undrivable-car-so-i-may-recapture-some-money#latest

lemko

How about this 1968 Dodge Polara 4-door hardtop that's been lying dormant for years near Bingham and Hartel in NE Philly? It's been for sale for at least 12 years.

stickguy

that is a sad looking old barge.

Mr_Shiftright

I'd say $500 bucks is about right for that one. (parts)

isellhondas

Do you guys this would be a nice, reliable car for one of you?


http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5066774274.html

What could possibly go wrong?

texases

isellhondas said:

What could possibly go wrong?

I'm going to have nightmares about this:

bhill2

isellhondas said:

Do you guys this would be a nice, reliable car for one of you?


http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5066774274.html

What could possibly go wrong?

And it's in such pristine condition to start with.

Mr_Shiftright

One of the biggest problems with that basically very sweet engine is that they like to catch fire. The V-12 is sometimes referred to within the collector car hobby as the "Jaguar auxiliary heating system". If that doesn't happen, you have to worry about overheats and warped cylinder heads.

Not a bad price though if you need a parts car. I have no idea why there is a TH400 transmission in the car---they used to make a TH350 conversion though. The Borg-Warner 3-speed was a pig.

stickguy

I always hated that steering wheel and shift lever.

Mr_Shiftright

Never liked those cars--I don't find them attractive and they demand constant, never-ending attention. If you want a nice one, they can be had cheaply. I would suggest paying no more that $10K for the best.

texases

Even when the XJS was new I never thought 'I gotta get me one of those!'

Mr_Shiftright

Sort of Jaguar's version of a 1965 Thunderbird

fintail

I think they are still depreciating.

ab348

A former coworker used one of them as a daily driver for a long time - might still be for all I know. It was an ordeal getting parts for it due to the lead time involved but she kept it on the road. I last saw her driving it 2 years ago. I hate to imagine how much money she put into it.

fintail

Yes, please - my absolute favorite color combo on a later run W126, and it looks beautiful. I once had a similar car, same color, model, and year, but grey interior.

Speaking of blue MBs and project cars, I won't be taking the fintail to Leavenworth this weekend - one of the guys I was going to be traveling with apparently ruined his 300D (yep, 20-something guy) and will drive his dad's car, so another guy I was driving with decided to take his dad's car instead of his 240D (a car the fintail can leave in the dust), and I don't want to be left in the dust, so the fintail won't have to work hard this weekend.

xwesx

A very pretty car, for sure! There are a couple things that strike me, though: 1. WHY would anyone put so much attention in to the photos, and yet not even put a valve stem cap on the FR wheel? 2. The undercarriage looks like someone hastily painted over it as it sat. E.g., it looks nice now, but I suspect the paint there will all flake off soon enough given the level of apparent surface rust, grime, etc., that is present.

Basically, it looks like the seller is going for top dollar, but I doubt the car is worth quite that much.

As for the drive to Leavenworth, are you saying that those guys would simply leave you in the dust because they can? I think you should take it! Caravan, and have them agree that the fintail is the lead car (so you set the pace).

Mr_Shiftright

Interesting Article on "Barn Finds"

isellhondas

xwesx said:

A very pretty car, for sure! There are a couple things that strike me, though: 1. WHY would anyone put so much attention in to the photos, and yet not even put a valve stem cap on the FR wheel? 2. The undercarriage looks like someone hastily painted over it as it sat. E.g., it looks nice now, but I suspect the paint there will all flake off soon enough given the level of apparent surface rust, grime, etc., that is present.

Basically, it looks like the seller is going for top dollar, but I doubt the car is worth quite that much.

As for the drive to Leavenworth, are you saying that those guys would simply leave you in the dust because they can? I think you should take it! Caravan, and have them agree that the fintail is the lead car (so you set the pace).

I agree on that Mercedes. It looks nice until you look closer at thise undercarrage photos. I suspect it has more rust than meets the eye.

Mr_Shiftright

300E was one of MB's better efforts. And you don't have to deal with their gas-hog V8s. Not worth very much though, and as usual you have to sweat German electronics from the 80s. I'd say $5500 is all the money here.

isellhondas

Even so, did you notice on the sticker there was still a gas guzzler fee imposed?

Makes one wonder just how bad those V-8's were!

texases

isellhondas said:

Even so, did you notice on the sticker there was still a gas guzzler fee imposed?

Makes one wonder just how bad those V-8's were!

There were just a few (5) 300SE and 300SELs on the fueleconomy.gov web site, they reported 15, 16, 16, 20.6, and 21 mpg for averages, with EPA combined estimates of 16 mpg. The 4 420SELs reported 13.3, 15.5, 19, and 22 mpg, EPA combined of 15 mpg. Not as much difference as I expected. Of course the 560 SEL (2) was less, with 11 and 16.4 reported, 13 EPA combined.

andre1969

isellhondas said:

Even so, did you notice on the sticker there was still a gas guzzler fee imposed?

Makes one wonder just how bad those V-8's were!

At some point in time, the Mopar M-body (Gran Fury/Diplomat/5th Avenue) were hit with the guzzler tax as well. IIRC, they were rated 16/22 at the time, although I'm not sure what the raw numbers were. For comparison, Ford's V-8 Panthers and GM's 305/307 full-sizers were usually rated around 17/24. The Mopars suffered because they didn't have a 4-speed overdrive transmission so to sort of compensate, they stuck a tall 2.26:1 axle in them, and slightly modified first and second gear.

My '89 Gran Fury, which was an ex police car, had a 318-4bbl, 2.94:1 axle, and the quicker transmission (it was first used in civilian cars in 1981, but expanded to police cars in 1984). It was EPA-rated a sad 13/15. In real life though, it would get around 12-13 in local driving, and I could get it to break 20 on the highway.

When GM started offering the 185 hp TBI Chevy 350 in the RWD Cadillac Brougham, it was also hit with a guzzler tax, but I forget what its EPA rating was.

The guzzler tax probably didn't affect sales of something like a 5th Ave or Brougham, but I'm sure it kept buyers away from lower-priced cars like the Gran Fury and Diplomat! Probably one reason they were sold mainly as police cars and taxis, especially in later years.

fintail

the underside of the blue 300SE has definitely received a high pressure clean or something - some original coatings appear absent, but the surfaces otherwise look correct. Definitely in need of a PPI, but doesn't make me panic in the pics. Those cars tended to rust along wheelarches, on doors, and around the trunk and rear windshield - where this car appears clean. Of course, being in a place where the climate eats cars from within, it could be a good shell with a bad structure. Also cool to see the original European delivery window sticker, uncommon.

I ran one of those for a few years starting around the turn of the century. It was a very reliable car, only one real issue in the time I had it, and not an expensive fix. As is noted, the mpg penalty to V8 is small, maybe not the maintenance penalty. Pretty cars though, those since aren't as balanced of designs.

This is the page for the drive tomorrow - all Euro makes are welcome, it will mostly be a VW-Audi-BMW brofest, but maybe a few MBs. My friends would indeed leave me behind, and probably don't have the self-control to travel in a convoy (we we tried last year, but one guy took off, and I kept leaving the 240D in the dust without trying), it might be more relaxing in the modern car. I'll get to do more than watch the oil and temperature gauges for the whole drive. A week from Sunday, if the weather is nice, I am planning a ~100 mile drive in the fintail.

xwesx

Sounds like fun, fin!

fintail

A friend of mine just inherited a cool 50K, net. If I fell into that, I wonder if I'd do something smart like invest it (my friend says he might use it for a down payment on a house, which in this bubbly subsidized market is risky), or use 80% of it and have my project car renovated, Decisions decisions.

ab348

I think if I inherited that much (or more likely, twice that amount) I would either (a) reno/add to my house or (b) use it to upgrade to a different house while selling my existing. My issue is that every time I look at moving I find it hard to find something I like better.

I have the same issue with my old car. I get tempted occasionally by something more muscular but I know what I have and what its issues are. None of them are all that much to fix, it is just the matter of getting motivated to get it done. Buying something else starts the process of finding out and dealing with its issues all over again.

Michaell

If I were to come into a large sum of money, I'd split it three ways - save 1/3, spend 1/3 and use 1/3 to pay down debts.

Not that I'll ever get the chance to put those plans into action, mind you....

andre1969

Almost had a project car in the driveway this morning. Sometime during the night, a big limb fell off the mulberry tree and onto my house mate's Xterra. Maybe this is Mother Nature's way of saying "No Furrin Cars Allowed!"...although it doesn't seem to have a problem with my Mexican Ram



Fortunately, no serious damage. I was able to get under the limb and lift it up just enough that we propped it up with a 2x4, and my house mate was able to back up from under it. Just a few scratches, and one small dent in the hood.

bhill2

ab348 said:

I think if I inherited that much (or more likely, twice that amount) I would either (a) reno/add to my house or (b) use it to upgrade to a different house while selling my existing. My issue is that every time I look at moving I find it hard to find something I like better.

I have the same issue with my old car. I get tempted occasionally by something more muscular but I know what I have and what its issues are. None of them are all that much to fix, it is just the matter of getting motivated to get it done. Buying something else starts the process of finding out and dealing with its issues all over again.

If I inherited that much money I have to admit I would be tempted to dump some of it into a cosmetic restoration of our '85 Mercedes. We have owned the car for 25 years and love it, it runs like a top, and is built like a brick s---house. We recently had it repainted and it is looking good, but there are fiddly little things inside that are broken (trim pieces) or don't work (clock, trip meter), and doing that final work to bring it up to new or near-new condition would make me feel good.

fintail

I think I could do a lot to the fintail for about 35K - then invest the rest. It'd really be tempting. For 50K, I'd be able to put down about 10% on a house within a mildly reasonable distance from work. Decisions decisions.

qbrozen

We're thinking about some renovations since it is looking like we'll be staying here after all. We guesstimate $30k without getting into anything too major. Ideally, we'd clear trees and put in a pool, too, but I think that's secondary.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

We're thinking about some renovations since it is looking like we'll be staying here after all. We guesstimate $30k without getting into anything too major. Ideally, we'd clear trees and put in a pool, too, but I think that's secondary.

No southern migrations for y'all, then?

stever

I'm home with the last minivan load. Need to build a casita around here - the garage is filling up and I can barely still get the van in there. Still have company and no way will her Cruze fit in there.

I used to rib my brother about his pool. We'd go camping together and his daughter would call about some problem. He had his pool guy on speed dial. They're kind of like boats - holes in the water/ground that you dump money into.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

No southern migrations for y'all, then?

There seems to be a rampant lack of courtesy down there, or at least lack of interest in anyone from NJ. My wife and I have each applied to dozens of jobs. I think I've gotten 4 responses, 2 of which were form letters, and 2 led to further communication. 1 spoke to me on the phone and let me know they had a real concern bringing someone in who didn't already live there, and the other has been stringing me along for months now and has gone silent for a couple of weeks, so I'm writing them off.

In any case, the schooling situation has changed a bit for the better for the kids, and that was a key driving factor. Maybe we'll try again next year. Ya never know.

Mr_Shiftright

Ask Not for Whom the Wrecker Comes, It Comes for Thee:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5087427492.html

Any ad that uses the word "plethora" can't be all bad:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5065350734.html

Needs Some Parts? That should be easy...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4996547460.html

He was going to get around to it, but....ZIP...there went 20 years:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5067179062.html

hpmctorque

Mr_Shiftright said:

Ask Not for Whom the Wrecker Comes, It Comes for Thee:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5087427492.html

Any ad that uses the word "plethora" can't be all bad:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5065350734.html

Needs Some Parts? That should be easy...

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4996547460.html

He was going to get around to it, but....ZIP...there went 20 years:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5067179062.html

All you'd have to do with that 1952 Studebaker 6x6 is rub a can of Turtle Wax on it and you'd have a good daily driver.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

He was going to get around to it, but....ZIP...there went 20 years:

That's no joke, either!

stickguy

wow. interesting stuff.

I have a soft spot for the volvo, having learned to drive on a 1969 144. clean it up and get it running, and sure I'll give you the $2K!

and I have a perverse attraction to the Lancias. I doubt could get 1 running car out of it though, especially since they are all different models. And of course, decrepit junk. But if I had a lot of land, and garage space (heck, make that a barn), and a fresh tetanus shot, could be fun to spend a summer taking them all apart.

Mr_Shiftright

These are the "Fiat Lancias", not the Lancia Lancias....just so you know.

stickguy

I didn't say it was rational.

isellhondas

I knew of a shop in CA that actually would work on Lancias.

They referred to them as "Lawn Chairs" since they usually just sat around not running.

Talk about garbage cars!

Mr_Shiftright

Yep, those Lancia Betas really were crap cars. A rather sad fate for such a distinguished marque.

isellhondas

Does anyone want to turn 5000 dollars into 50,000?

Well, here is your chance!


http://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5095052382.html

explorerx4

Always a good sign when there are bricks propping up the car.

stickguy

not even an interior pic? Not good sign. Body doesn't look too bad though. still likely a no-win money pit.

definitely a car that, if I wanted one (I don't) I would find the buy that spent 50K restoring to like-new condition, and buy his for $.40 on the dollar!

hpmctorque

We're on the same page on that Eldo, stickguy. The supply of restoreable first generation FWDers must be very limited, and the '67 Eldo was a very significant model for GM's luxury division. Therefore, I'd conclude that a total of $50,000 to buy and restore the one shown would result in a reasonably safe long-term investment, and a nice driver. If I owned such a car I'd pamper and treasure it, but I'd drive it.

The notion of owning a trailer queen never appealed to me. It's artificial, and contradicts the purpose of the machine. That's what museums are for, so if I couldn't stomach the risk of driving it I'd donate it to a museum.
Stating the obvious, a big component of enjoying cars is to drive them.