Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

isellhondas

That Cadillac is a parts donor and nothing more. In pristine condition, it "might" bring maybe 20,000. (Shifty?)

I have a friend that just spent nearly 9000.00 on a paint job on his 1956 Buick Century and another 8000.00 plus on chrome. The car needed no body work and the original chrome wasn't all that bad either.

A person is FAR better off buying a nice driver that is already "done"!

Mr_Shiftright

Not so rare. They made almost 18,000 of them that year. In fact, it was produced in larger numbers than any other of the Fleetwood series. Value restored? For a Pebble Beach quality car----maybe $19,000. A '67 Riviera or '67 Impala would bring more and a '67 Limo would bring much more.

Worth restoring? Not in our lifetimes. Stickguy nailed it on strategy and isell on price.

My two cents? Patch it up and drive it as is, or make it a parts car for a convertible.

hpmctorque

Mr_Shiftright said:

Not so rare. They made almost 18,000 of them that year. In fact, it was produced in larger numbers than any other of the Fleetwood series. Value restored? For a Pebble Beach quality car----maybe $19,000. A '67 Riviera or '67 Impala would bring more and a '67 Limo would bring much more.

Worth restoring? Not in our lifetimes. Stickguy nailed it on strategy and isell on price.

My two cents? Patch it up and drive it as is, or make it a parts car for a convertible.

Isell and Shifty, Boy was I off on the value of a well preserved or restored '67 Eldorado. Thanks to both of you
for the reality check. Fortunately my wallet hasn't left my back pocket yet. The reality is that I'm aware ignorance when it comes to needing the help of professionals such as you two if I were serious about a purchase of a collectible car.

Regarding the production number, shifty, okay they made 18,000 of them, but that was 38 years ago. How many good drivers or restorable ones could there be remaining? Nevertheless, I get your main point, which is either find a good for, say, $15,000-$19,000, or forget about it. I like the car, but will readily admit that I dislike making a mistake more. Buyer's remorse never feels good.

berri

I remember back in my military days that one of our sergeants had something like that. But one day we had an ice storm and old Sarge spent his years in the south - It slid out and I think took out 4 parked cars around him. He might have made out better if it had been snow instead because that thing had plenty of weight going for him. But slamming on the accelerator and brake in slippery conditions is a dangerous approach to driving!

uplanderguy

I always liked that first-gen FWD Eldo, and in fact I thought the '79 iteration harked back to the '67, with razor-sharp lines. A '67 might sell for less than a '67 Impala, but I'd say, "Well, la-de-freakin'-da!" as Chris Farley would say--I'd take an Eldo over an Impala anyday...and I like '67 Impalas! The Eldo is probably 5% of the Impala's production, probably even less than that.

I remember being a teenager and looking around our Chev-Cadillac dealer's used car lot on a Sunday and coming across an Eldo like this that someone had left the keys in. First time I ever noticed that those tiny quarter windows went back into the C panel, instead of down. That impressed my teenage mind at the time.

But, back to the original car in question....so many sellers online make Junior Sample looked like a reputable dealer.

andre1969

Mr_Shiftright said:

My two cents? Patch it up and drive it as is, or make it a parts car for a convertible.

That '67 Eldo isn't going to make for a good parts car for ANY convertible, except maybe an engine swap. We didn't get a FWD Eldorado convertible until the big, pimpy '71 generation.

The '67-70 Eldorados are nice cars, but I don't think they're really high-demand. I think most people actually prefer the pimp and glamour of the '71-76 models. Even though that style ran through '78, I think their desireability drops off after '76, with the loss of the convertible and the big 500 V-8. I'll see one every once in awhile at one of the Carlisle, PA swap meets, and they're usually not very high-priced.

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm...you're right about that '67 Eldo not being a suitable parts car for convertibles---and even the engine is smaller than later years of the same car. Well maybe there are pieces that will work on a Toronado--but alas, they aren't worth any more than the '67 Eldo.

As for rarity--there are probably a couple thousand survivors of '67 Eldos. I see 5 of them for sale in Hemmings right now. One has 39,000 original miles, asking $26.5K (good luck with that). So you don' have to look too hard to find a nice one.

Value often is not related to the "merits" of the car or its rarity--buyers determine the value of classic cars and way more people want a '67 Impala than a '67 Eldo, so there you are. The supply and demand equation rules.

All the better for those of us who don't follow the herd!

uplanderguy

For the longest-time, I didn't like the first Toronados...I used to think the car was too big for that styling. I've come around, though. I like the Eldo's exterior better, but I think the Eldo's interior disappoints a bit. Just the regular Caddy instrument panel I believe, and seat trim not noticeably better than in the Toronado Deluxe model.

I could like a '66 or '67 Toronado in a dark color, and probably any '67-70 Eldo that wasn't gold.

As a youngster, I was flabbergasted by how completely flat the floors were in those cars.

isellhondas

I'll take a nice '67 Riviera over any of those!

Mr_Shiftright

Who would have known? There's a Chrysler K Car Club!
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/5093043197.html

A total labor of love but would make a very cool rod:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/5057715088.html

hard to believe you could screw up a car this badly:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/cto/5093388374.html

You must be kidding:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/ant/cto/5087485307.html

Gee, what could possibly go wrong?
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/5096222033.html

isellhondas

I'm still laughing...

Michaell

One too many zeros on that Porsche methinks. 

Mr_Shiftright

You can buy a nice 2002 911 CAB for $20K. Given that an engine rebuild on one of these puppies is $18,000, buying a flooded, salvaged example is akin to ritual suicide.

fintail

We're in an odd heatwave of sorts here (very hot the past few days, today warm and muggy - 80-85 with rain showers, feels like Florida), no better time than to take the project car on a 106 mile drive. I wasn't always comfortable in the car, which of course lacks AC, but the car didn't miss a beat, in the humid weird weather. Always started without hesitation, moved along fine. Got caught in a brief downpour, wipers worked fine without any odd noises or actions - I don't test them often, so that was nice. Car was looking decent and got a few compliments, one from a guy in traffic who rolled his window down to tell me he liked it:



A young friend of mine suggested I put a now-popular band-aid sticker on the little dent I put in the car when pushing it around a corner last year. It might be more noticeable than the dent. At least it's just a sticker:

berri

You'll always get stares on that car because it is from an era when MB wasn't all that common. Today's MB are kind of just another car because there are a fair number of them on the road.

fintail

True, they were more special then, an offbeat choice for people like engineers or doctors or professors, not so much for social climbers. And anything with wide whites seems to get attention.

xwesx

fintail said:

True, they were more special then, an offbeat choice for people like engineers or doctors or professors, not so much for social climbers. And anything with wide whites seems to get attention.

Especially *clean* wide whites.

isellhondas

I'm not a fan of wide whites on cars they typically didn't come with but, still, that is a nice old Mercedes. I'm surprised I haven't run into you.

You are right about the muggy weather. I started on a walk through the neighborhood at 4:30 but I quickly retreated. The rain didn't bother me but the lightning sure did!

andre1969

Here's something you don't see too often: 1981 Bonneville coupe for sale: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/cto/5096556131.html

One thing that caught my eye was that it was originally a Diesel 350, but it was replaced by a 350 gasoline engine in the 1980's. I wonder what 350 it actually has under the hood? I guess it could be the original 350 converted to gasoline, or maybe an Olds 350 that was gasoline from the get-go?

I do remember that it was somewhat common for people to have their Diesel 350's converted to gasoline back in the '80's. Never saw one in person though.

uplanderguy

I used to not like those Bonnevilles, but I do now. I never see them.

You could still get bucket seats and console with floorshift in a Bonneville in '81, neat throwback to the full-size Grand Prix models of the mid-sixties. Too bad the engine selection across all the GM big cars in '81 was so lame.

fintail

If you see a blue fintail, it is likely me - they aren't exactly common

Wide whites were an option on MB sedanss through model year 1964. They are correct, but the older fintails seem less common than later ones, and it's not easy finding a wide white for a 13" wheel.

Here's a factory shot showing both wide whites and the rare fitted luggage option:

isellhondas said:

I'm not a fan of wide whites on cars they typically didn't come with but, still, that is a nice old Mercedes. I'm surprised I haven't run into you.

You are right about the muggy weather. I started on a walk through the neighborhood at 4:30 but I quickly retreated. The rain didn't bother me but the lightning sure did!

fintail

Seems the 77-79 Bonneville coupe is a lot more common. I still see one of those every blue moon or so.

uplanderguy said:

I used to not like those Bonnevilles, but I do now. I never see them.

You could still get bucket seats and console with floorshift in a Bonneville in '81, neat throwback to the full-size Grand Prix models of the mid-sixties. Too bad the engine selection across all the GM big cars in '81 was so lame.

fintail

When I first got them, I thought they were too bright and showy. Now they mellowed a little, maybe matching the patina of the car. Probably the easiest cosmetic upgrade one can make for the car, really sets it off.

xwesx said:

Especially *clean* wide whites.

isellhondas

Interesting. In 1962, the U.S. cars went to the narrow whitewall and some people think these should be replaced with wide whites. Another thing I see on cars from the 50's are those 4 inch wide whites that just aren't right.

But then, I despise fender skirts and continental kits too!

fintail

The Euros typically lagged behind styling trends - fins were alive and well there into the mid 60s.

These ads among others ran in 1963-64:







They even put wide whites on early run (1963-64) 230SLs:



Speaking of whitewalls, it seems they grew wider for some 70s land yachts. I too dislike the 1930s style whitewalls on 50s cars, or wide whites on 60s American cars - I've seen more than a couple mid 60s Birds and Rivieras with them.

isellhondas said:

Interesting. In 1962, the U.S. cars went to the narrow whitewall and some people think these should be replaced with wide whites. Another thing I see on cars from the 50's are those 4 inch wide whites that just aren't right.

But then, I despise fender skirts and continental kits too!

berri

Fin, I like the white MB coupe in the ad. very clean and classy looking. Did MB use any of the Italian design studios back then/?

Isell, saw mostly narrower whitewalls growing up and very, very few cars with Continental kits. For whatever reason, I associate those Continental kits mostly with mid 50's Fomoco brands or 58 Impala's and Pontiacs. I recall back in the 70's I think when there were some muscle cars with red whitewalls (I believe before the raised letter tires). Don't know if those were customized or something out of the Pontiac or Dodge options list?

Mr_Shiftright

A 230SL with white walls?...er.....no thank you. As one snide reviewer put it: "the little SLshouldn't look like a car a corrupted Senator would give to his Las Vegas girlfriend".

uplanderguy

I enjoy seeing the "Subsidiary of Studebaker Corporation, South Bend, Indiana" in the Benz ads. I think I remember that I heard that in the early sixties, every M-B went to South Bend first, for subsequent distribution. I have a pic in our Studebaker Drivers' Club magazine from '63 I think, that shows a building full of Benzes at South Bend.

andre1969

Mr_Shiftright said:

A 230SL with white walls?...er.....no thank you. As one snide reviewer put it: "the little SLshouldn't look like a car a corrupted Senator would give to his Las Vegas girlfriend".

But it is, Blanche...it is!

As for wide whitewalls on domestic cars, at least, I think 1960-61 is sort of a transitional period, where the cars, for the most part, would look fine with either the wide whitewalls or narrow. For 1959 and earlier, I think the wides look better, but for '62 and later, the wides are really looking out of place.

uplanderguy

I like whatever the manufacturer was doing at the time. That's my guideline, although of course anyone can do whatever they want with their car! LOL

Laughing at the 'Baby Jane' reference. For the most part, that movie holds up I think, although I like 'Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte' better.

andre1969

Was there ever a year where a manufacturer would offer both wide and narrow white walls? Most cars back then actually came standard with blackwalls, I believe, although the vast majority were ordered with them.

I liked "Hush...Hush..." as well. Been awhile since I've seen it though, and the only line I can remember distinctly from it would probably get this post deleted

uplanderguy

"You're a vile, sorry little...." is it, I bet.

uplanderguy

In '61, Chevy used wide whites but the SS only had narrow whitewalls.

andre1969

Yep, that was the line...

ab348

berri said:

I recall back in the 70's I think when there were some muscle cars with red whitewalls (I believe before the raised letter tires). Don't know if those were customized or something out of the Pontiac or Dodge options list?

In the '60s there was a short period of tine where you could get stripes of different colors other than white on your tires, mostly for performance cars as you say. There was a redline that was probably most common, but I also remember reading about blue lines and gold lines IIRC. They reproduce the redline versions now.

uplanderguy

I think I've seen thin yellow-lines (or probably more accurately, gold lines) on Sting Rays with knockoff wheels. That, or their whitewalls are dirty.

stevedebi

Wait, on that 911 from Los Angeles - how the heck did it get in a flood? Drought here for the past several years!

Mr_Shiftright

A good question--my experience is that cars in CA often get caught in quick tide changes when parked near the coast--a combo of being near an estuary +high winds + high tides. Happens all the time in Sausalito.

and do people refrain from parking in those spots? Nooooooooooo

stevedebi said:

Wait, on that 911 from Los Angeles - how the heck did it get in a flood? Drought here for the past several years!

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

A good question--my experience is that cars in CA often get caught in quick tide changes when parked near the coast--a combo of being near an estuary +high winds + high tides. Happens all the time in Sausalito.

So, not only a flood car, but a saltwater flood car. Yech!

fintail

I think the best oddball user of wide whites was the early E-Type. 1961, they were still a thing!







These are all period pics.

fintail

They are all in-house designs - but I've read a story that in around 1957, MB contacted Pininfarina about the soon to be fintail. MB then rejected the designs, but the finished product resembled the proposals - and the fintail does kind of have a Farina look to it, like the popular "BMC Farina" cars.

berri said:

Fin, I like the white MB coupe in the ad. very clean and classy looking. Did MB use any of the Italian design studios back then/?

xwesx

That Jag has such a crazy look to it! The hood just keeps going, and going, and going! We had a semi-neighbor (e.g., lives in our service area) with an old green one. It had a nice patina going. I used to see it fairly regularly in the summer months, but I have not caught a glimpse of it in several years now.

The wire wheels on those things are just beautiful; I can't imagine what a pain they were to clean, though!

Mr_Shiftright

Same car done right....painted wires, blackwalls--as a British gentleman might have done it back when.

fintail

Jags were different for a long time. The styling was never modern or contemporary, so it aged well. Pre-1988 cars mostly.

I see a coupe around here now and then, but a roadster is rare.

xwesx said:

That Jag has such a crazy look to it! The hood just keeps going, and going, and going! We had a semi-neighbor (e.g., lives in our service area) with an old green one. It had a nice patina going. I used to see it fairly regularly in the summer months, but I have not caught a glimpse of it in several years now.

The wire wheels on those things are just beautiful; I can't imagine what a pain they were to clean, though!

fintail

I think that's a cgi

Here's a more restrained one:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Same car done right....painted wires, blackwalls--as a British gentleman might have done it back when.

Mr_Shiftright

now that's nice.

andre1969

This could have inadvertently created a few project cars. One of my friends used to take his '55 DeSoto Fireflite Coronado to this gas station for work....
Storm knocks over Shell Station canopy

isellhondas

I'm sorry but I think those ultra wide whites are hideous on those Jags.

Mr_Shiftright

I can see them on a Benz sedan of that era but on an E-Type, that's a complete misinterpretation of what the car is. I think it should be a Class B misdemeanor, punishable by a fine of up to $1000 and/or 6 months confinement.

uplanderguy

I never noticed that Jags had a wraparound windshield (and related dogleg) on XK-E's.

Still, a beautiful design although I've heard my whole life they are a service headache. With that styling, I'd try and put up with it though.