Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

berri

Is that kind of like the old GM Dynaflow trannies?

texases

I guess all it takes is 2 insane folks, a '73 XKE 2+2 V12 sold for $135K at B-J...
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1973-JAGUAR-XKE-2And2-COUPE-180705

Mr_Shiftright

Somebody must have been drunk. Very unattractive car, the "mutt" of the E Types. B-J must be laughing all the way to the bank.

isellhondas

"Very unattractive car". You are being way too kind here!

Add the price of the bid pass, the 10% Buyer's Fee and transportation to that ridiculous price!

Yes, drunk. VERY VERY drunk as I suspect happens often at B-J.

Mr_Shiftright

The consensus among my classic car dealers is that the bid is possibly bogus. It's hard to believe B-J results anyway.

texases

In a 2011 episode 'Wheeler Dealer' bought a '73 2+2 for about $21K, sold it for about $30K after putting $5k in parts and who knows how many labor $$ into it. Those sound like reasonable $$...

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

The consensus among my classic car dealers is that the bid is possibly bogus. It's hard to believe B-J results anyway.

Oh, really...never thought of that but it makes perfect sense.

I mean, who could get THAT drunk?

Mr_Shiftright

Someone apparently was drunk enough to make a $100,000 mistake....or...B-J's chandelier bought it.

isellhondas

Maybe a "shill" bid!

Mr_Shiftright

Hard to say if the chandelier bought it (as in "THANK you sir, for that bid!" as he points to the ceiling). In any event, a total outlier bid that should be tossed out of any value consideration for this type of car.

I'm a big believer in "sell 'em fair, buy 'em fair" and it has always worked for me. I suppose one could make more profit by overselling and waiting for that one plump, naive buyer, and on the other side grinding on desperate (or also naive) people to get the best price when you buy---but I don't know, I just don't like the karma involved.

I would never buy a car I couldn't drive first, unless it was cheap enough to part out. I come across so many nice looking cars that drive like crap.

fintail

Got the fintail back from the shop after its yearly service and checkup. Came in well under budget - as most of the car's faults are way over budget. But it is running and driving fine as always. No safety concerns were found. 8 quarts of "Rotella T Trip" aren't cheap. Funny thing - the invoice says the engine was "running slightly off" and they changed the plugs and adjusted the distributor cap. It seemed fine to me. Plugs were probably dirty from low speed driving - as Shifty will attest to, they will foul if you don't keep the revs up, and the car likes to upshift early.

isellhondas

So, tell me....how does one "adjust" a distributor cap?

stever

Don't you move 'em back and forth to adjust the timing? Seems like I had a car that worked that one, in another century...

andre1969

Yeah, there's a bolt...1/2" on every car I've ever messed around with (which isn't that many) where you can loosen it, and then twist the distributor to adjust or retard the spark timing.

I forget which way is which, but I don't think it's universal. At least, I remember messing around with the timing on one of my Pontiacs a few years back, and noticed that it was "backwards" from the Mopar smallblock V-8s.

isellhondas

Oh, I know all about adjusting timing. I was messing with him. He didn't say they adjusted the timing, he said they adjusted the distributor CAP.

Buried deep in my toolbox is a Fox Valley timing light, A Fox Valley Dwell-Tach Volt Ohmeter and even a couple of distributor wrenchs. Shifty will know what I'm talking about!

Why I keep this stuff I'll never know.

The gas station where I worked PT in my youth, we didn't even have a timing light or dwell tach!

We set the timing by ear and used feeler guages. Guess what? The cars ran fine afterwards!

fintail

Yep, it is adjustable on my car, too. That's what they meant, they just worded it funny. I am still amused, as I thought it was running fine - I adjust it by ear too, and sometimes set it to idle just a little fast, as it seems to smooth things out.

isellhondas

Just don't use a rag with either on it to clean the inside of your distributor cap!

stever

lol, okay, what's the story behind that? Will you pass out?

texases

Fin - I forget, do you have points, or did an electronic aftermarket ignition get put in at some point?

sda

fintail said:

Got the fintail back from the shop after its yearly service and checkup. Came in well under budget - as most of the car's faults are way over budget. But it is running and driving fine as always. No safety concerns were found. 8 quarts of "Rotella T Trip" aren't cheap. Funny thing - the invoice says the engine was "running slightly off" and they changed the plugs and adjusted the distributor cap. It seemed fine to me. Plugs were probably dirty from low speed driving - as Shifty will attest to, they will foul if you don't keep the revs up, and the car likes to upshift early.

Fintail, what is your daily driver?

xwesx

stever said:

lol, okay, what's the story behind that? Will you pass out?

I think it refers more to the possibility of an exploding cap due to the vapors from the ether (not either.... lol) being trapped in the cap and then igniting when the points contact.

Hey, don't look at me! I've never done that!

fintail

In 2001, I had an electronic ignition system installed - I was tired of maintaining points, and the car was getting balky in damp weather. Almost 14 years later, it is still going strong with little maintenance needed. In terms of ease of use, definitely the best upgrade I've made to the car.

texases said:

Fin - I forget, do you have points, or did an electronic aftermarket ignition get put in at some point?

fintail

A newer model by the same maker (I have some brand loyalty/comfort):

sda said:

Fintail, what is your daily driver?

texases

Boy, here are some words to live by regarding auctions - don't rely on anything stated by the auction house, even if there's a 'certificate of authenticity'!
http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/the-curious-case-of-the-fake-1967-corvette-1721955795

stever

Interesting story, and the irony is that this "Shriners Corvette" is likely worth more money now that it has extended its shady history in the annals of classic car investing. Just like a "good" painting becomes worth a zillion after it's been stolen and lived on some rich guy's mantle for 20 years before being rediscovered. Adds to the provenance of the item.

The owner should take it on tour and charge $10 a head to look at it.

Mr_Shiftright

It's my opinion (and in my experience) that the best cars are sold privately and don't appear at auction. Of course, there are exceptions, such as heirs to an estate wanting to get every possible dollar out of a sale, but even in those cases, chances are the car is at auction because knowledgeable buyers and club members didn't offer enough---knowing something about the car that the general public might not know.

texases said:

Boy, here are some words to live by regarding auctions - don't rely on anything stated by the auction house, even if there's a 'certificate of authenticity'!
http://carbuying.jalopnik.com/the-curious-case-of-the-fake-1967-corvette-1721955795

texases

I did find it amusing that the self proclaimed Corvette experts in the comments couldn't understand why a '67 might be more valuable than a '64. It all comes down to condition and the particular options they put on that Frankencar...

Mr_Shiftright

67s are considered the most refined of the Sting Rays. Downside is that they have lots of little parts that are completely unique to 1967---so "authenticity" is a big deal with collectors.

stickguy

I had a rerun of B-J palm beach on over lunch. A 67 went across, and they talked about how at the time, it was a tough sell, because of all the hype about the fancy new 68s coming soon!

uplanderguy

The '64 is usually the lowest-valued Sting Ray, all things considered. The '67 is cleaned up a bit, but I never liked how the '67's Rally Wheels were also offered on big Chevys and Chevelles that year as well, and in subsequent years got offered even on Novas. I met the original owner of a '67 at a local cruise and he pointed out that when his car came in, he was disappointed that the cut-out in the pad above the glovebox, used as an assist grip, wasn't present on the '67's. I guess it was an irresistable way to cut a few cents out of the cost!

I know I'm in the minority, but I think the '63's split-window is the dumbest design element. It looks 'Buck Rogers' and is terrible for visibility. I'd rather have a '64, which looks about exactly the same except with the one-piece rear window. But what do I know.

andre1969

uplanderguy said:

I know I'm in the minority, but I think the '63's split-window is the dumbest design element. It looks 'Buck Rogers' and is terrible for visibility. I'd rather have a '64, which looks about exactly the same except with the one-piece rear window. But what do I know.

I think you're sort of like me, in that you tend to go for what happens to catch your eye, and look aesthetically pleasing to you, rather than what happens to be the hot, in-demand model that everyone else is lusting after.

uplanderguy

Right, andre. Although, I like a bone-stock '55 or '56 Chevy, and also '65 Impalas. All credibility about being an 'independent thinker' goes out the window there! LOL

Mr_Shiftright

The '55 Chevy deserves your admiration. It was the first truly modern American car after WW II--not just in styling (there were other attractive styles before it) but with 12V electrics, a short-stroke V8, and a clean and tasteful body style. Good cars, too--a great bang for the buck.

andre1969

Well, I like the '56 Chevy...but I guess that might be going against the grain, because I think it tends to be the least-loved of the '55-57 era. And, you can't go wrong with a '65 Impala...classically good looks and proportions...every styling detail in its place, IMO at least.

I'd imagine there's more of a lusting for '65 Mustangs and GTOs than there is for '65 Impalas, though, so maybe there's still a bit of independent thinking in there

Mr_Shiftright

Well the '65 Impalas are pretty whale-like with a 3-body trunk but hardly enough room in the back seats. It's a big car and just not as nimble as a '65 Mustang might be. Not as "youthful" either. GTOs and Mustangs have become "iconic", which means you see the icon of them on t-shirts, beer coasters, decals, you name it.

uplanderguy

The first car I can remember my parents having was a '56 Chevy two-door sedan (series Two-Ten). I was born in '58 so you can tell we had it a long time--traded in '64. It was rusty, particularly over the headlights--a bad place for '55 and '56 Chevys. Someone pointed out to me at a show how the '57 had a 'screen' (sort-of) around the headlights, to let air in. I thought, "Wow, they were experiencing customer complaints about rust already on the '55 and '56", although another friend told me that screening was actually for fresh-air intake inside the car, although may have helped the '57's avoid rust in that particular area. For styling, I just don't care for the '57 at all, even inside, though. I'd take a '57 Ford Fairlane over a Chevy, although I've heard that the '57 Chevys simply lasted longer as used cars.

I could be very happy with a '55 or '56 Chevy Sport Coupe, Nomad, or even two-door sedan in any color but red and white.

uplanderguy

A friend of mine was at one of the big auctions in Indianapolis maybe a year or so ago. He knows I like '65 Impalas and took a pic of an Evening Orchid one for me. (I think there simply is not a bad line on the entire car!) He later said it was virtually impossible to photograph the car without getting a '69 Camaro in the picture--from any direction or angle--there were that many of them there. LOL

texases

I'd like to see an 'everything but' auction - everything but Camaros, Mustangs, Barracudas, Challengers, Chevelles, Malibus, GTOs and Corvettes. Any I'm missing?

Mr_Shiftright

Ford-based hot rods

fintail

Anything with a non-original 350...

I wonder where the bidding will end...

Mr_Shiftright

Hey, you can buy it for $18K today, drive it for 3 years, and sell it on eBay for $9500. If you want to know the investment value, look at the value of a 1960s Benz diesel. There you go.

But if you like slow old tanks to drive with a whiff of pungent diesel in the air, go for it. Some people collect German Panzers and Ford tractors--who am I to judge? I used to own one after all. I liked it a lot, but I would never do it again.

bhill2

andre1969 said:

Well, I like the '56 Chevy...but I guess that might be going against the grain, because I think it tends to be the least-loved of the '55-57 era. And, you can't go wrong with a '65 Impala...classically good looks and proportions...every styling detail in its place, IMO at least.

I'm with you, Andre. I would take a '56 over a '57 * (or a '55) without blinking.

fintail

The price is wacky, but that 300D isn't a car someone is buying to drive, it's a car someone is buying to win the preservation class at MBCA shows. Newest W123 is 30 years old now, and the oldest ones are almost 40 years old. They are not modern cars anymore, and shouldn't be judged against them. It's a somewhat vintage car that will be driven on Sundays.

I prefer the 55-56 Chevy to the overdone 57 as well. I remember when I was a kid, I saw a 56 Nomad in this color combo, which was somehow striking to me:

Mr_Shiftright

that's a lot of money to spend to win a plastic trophy at a car show for something you had nothing to do with. I mean, really? 30 years is now the new "antique" in America?

fintail

Nobody said antique - but it is the same age as a 1955 car in 1985, and people were definitely preserving cars of that age then. There's a definite movement for cars of that era in Europe - check out "youngtimers". It exists for similar era European cars here too, 70s-80s era MB/BMW/Porsche aren't exactly unpopular.

Having something to do with it isn't in fashion either, just like your local money launderer who buys a vintage Ferrari to show off.

Mr_Shiftright said:

that's a lot of money to spend to win a plastic trophy at a car show for something you had nothing to do with. I mean, really? 30 years is now the new "antique" in America?

ab348

fintail said:

I prefer the 55-56 Chevy to the overdone 57 as well. I remember when I was a kid, I saw a 56 Nomad in this color combo, which was somehow striking to me:

I visited a friend 2 weekends ago who has partly made his living for years by buying/refreshing or restoring/reselling old cars. He is immensely talented and very hard working, but has always been driven first of all by money and so does not get to enjoy the cars very much, instead providing his family with a very good lifestyle. In any event, when I was visiting I got to see his latest project, which is a '56 Chevy BelAir convertible in those exact colors. It is stunning. He pointed out two things to me that I did not know - it has the original interior upholstery material, which is unique to the convertible and is not reproduced. It also has a padded dash, which was apparently an option but one not often ordered. He is in the process of finishing it and will be selling or auctioning it. He recently sold a similar '56 Pontiac convertible to a buyer in Germany for an amount in the 6 figures.

Mr_Shiftright

Obviously the buyer and I are not even remotely on the same wavelength at those prices.

fintail

I can see the most absolute mint low mileage later run W123s being 15-20K cars. Same for W126s. They already are in Europe. That being said, these are cars with no needs that you couldn't restore for the same money.

fintail

Germany/Netherlands and Scandinavia are still REALLY into 40s-70s American cars, it is kind of surprising given the width of many roads there. I don't think it will fade away with their boomers either, as younger people are into it too.

ab348 said:

will be selling or auctioning it. He recently sold a similar '56 Pontiac convertible to a buyer in Germany for an amount in the 6 figures.

uplanderguy

fin, thanks for posting that Nomad pic. Beautiful car. I'm going from memory (dangerous) but I believe the lighter color was called "Sierra Beige" and "Aztec" might have been in the name of the darker color.

I think that 'hockey stick' molding along the bottom of the car was optional, and I'd prefer the car without it, but I wouldn't throw it out of....well, you know.