Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

I see them as going down in value over time.

fintail said:

I can see the most absolute mint low mileage later run W123s being 15-20K cars. Same for W126s. They already are in Europe. That being said, these are cars with no needs that you couldn't restore for the same money.

xwesx

fintail said:

Germany/Netherlands and Scandinavia are still REALLY into 40s-70s American cars, it is kind of surprising given the width of many roads there. I don't think it will fade away with their boomers either, as younger people are into it too.

That is definitely true! I have a friend that took his 1985 Chevy van over there about twelve years ago, and this thing is not a beauty queen by any stretch of the imagination, yet it gets all kinds of positive attention. Seriously.... something that would be seen as an eyesore (or perhaps a crime looking for a place to happen!) on this continent is a celebrity over there. LOL

fintail

I was thinking "sierra gold" and "adobe beige". I bet the hockey stick is a rust nest, too. Cool car though.

uplanderguy said:

fin, thanks for posting that Nomad pic. Beautiful car. I'm going from memory (dangerous) but I believe the lighter color was called "Sierra Beige" and "Aztec" might have been in the name of the darker color.

I think that 'hockey stick' molding along the bottom of the car was optional, and I'd prefer the car without it, but I wouldn't throw it out of....well, you know.

fintail

Maybe in a long time, like how ordinary 30s-40s cars have decreased. But it won't be immediate. I'll wager this wave has a good 20+ years to go.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I see them as going down in value over time.

fintail

You could probably roll through Paris or London or Berlin in a 1975 Eldo convertible and get more attention, positive anyway, than if you were in a new Ferrari. Strangely enough, vans also have a cult behind them in Japan.

xwesx said:

That is definitely true! I have a friend that took his 1985 Chevy van over there about twelve years ago, and this thing is not a beauty queen by any stretch of the imagination, yet it gets all kinds of positive attention. Seriously.... something that would be seen as an eyesore (or perhaps a crime looking for a place to happen!) on this continent is a celebrity over there. LOL

stever

How about a Hummer in Rome?

fintail

You won't be lauded in a H2 SuperTahoe in Europe, people there see the dbag just as easily as they see it here. A mostly reviled vehicle, often with a reason.

isellhondas

You could have the only one on the block!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiat-Other-600-Multipla-/271947325394?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3f5152dfd2&item=271947325394

Look at the bids!

Interesting where they had to put the spare tire!

uplanderguy

fin, talkig about cars being 'shown' back in the '80's when they were thirty years old--I plainly remember '55-57 Chevys at car shows in the late seventies. Somewhere in the house I have a pic of a '56 Nomad, black and white, that I took at my college town's car show. The lady passenger smiled right at me in the pic. And I graduated from there, and moved, in 1980.

fintail

In Moses Lake of all places. Crazy. Lots of old cars out there though.

I saw one of those in traffic in Vancouver once. It kind of sounded like a chainsaw.

uplanderguy

...and I think you're right with "Sierra Gold" and "Adobe Beige".

jpp75

Michaell said:

Andre, I've gotta ask .. with all those projects going on at the shop (a Chevette? really?), how do they decide what to work on?

Whichever owner has dropped off a check most recently?

I want to meet the person who decides to restore a Chevette.

ab348

isellhondas said:

You could have the only one on the block!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiat-Other-600-Multipla-/271947325394?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3f5152dfd2&item=271947325394

Look at the bids!

Interesting where they had to put the spare tire!

Probably the only protection for the passenger in case of a crash. Jeebus. It would look better going in reverse.

@fintail if they sound like a chainsaw, maybe it is something about the designers of 1950s small Italian engines. Up the street from me, a neighbor runs a Vespa repair service out of his home garage and in the summer there is often that same chainsaw ruckus as they come and go.

fintail

I remember going to shows when I was a kid in the mid-late 80s, and seeing lots of 50s stuff too. Those were the age equivalent of 1980s cars now. Kind of funny.

uplanderguy said:

fin, talkig about cars being 'shown' back in the '80's when they were thirty years old--I plainly remember '55-57 Chevys at car shows in the late seventies. Somewhere in the house I have a pic of a '56 Nomad, black and white, that I took at my college town's car show. The lady passenger smiled right at me in the pic. And I graduated from there, and moved, in 1980.

texases

Age equivalent, but not neat-equivalent. 

Mr_Shiftright

It's an extremely narrow niche market and I think will remain eternally stagnant---like pontons are.

fintail said:

Maybe in a long time, like how ordinary 30s-40s cars have decreased. But it won't be immediate. I'll wager this wave has a good 20+ years to go.

Mr_Shiftright said:

I see them as going down in value over time.

andre1969

texases said:

Age equivalent, but not neat-equivalent. 

Yep, it's amazing how time marches on. I bought my '57 DeSoto in September 1990, just as the '91 cars were hitting the showrooms. So, it was a 34 model year old car at the time. In a month, it'll be 25 years since I bought that car.

Nowadays, a 34 model year old car is essentially the 1982 Malibu wagon my grandparents bought new, a car that, in Grandmom's words was "The most expensive cheap car we ever owned".

Wow, speaking of Malibus, here's something I just thought of. The original Malibu ran from 1964-83. Once the 2017 Malibu hits the showrooms, which will mark 21 model years, the resurrection of the name will have lasted longer than the original!

uplanderguy

I bought my former '63 Lark in May 1988--hard to believe that it was only a 25-year-old car at the time, like a 1990 today.

The name "Malibu" is a good one, I think. I remember that Chevy really highlighted that name on the car, with minor "Chevelle" badging. I remember people rarely calling the '64-77 a "Chevelle Malibu", which was correct--just "Malibu".

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I bought my former '63 Lark in May 1988--hard to believe that it was only a 25-year-old car at the time, like a 1990 today.

The name "Malibu" is a good one, I think. I remember that Chevy really highlighted that name on the car, with minor "Chevelle" badging. I remember people rarely calling the '64-77 a "Chevelle Malibu", which was correct--just "Malibu".

Well, I dunno about that. Maybe later, but when it was introduced nobody called it a Malibu, but rather called it Chevelle.

This just made me remember something. I recall being in the car with my parents in late summer of 1963 when the news came on the radio. I guess to fill some time, they reported that Chevy was introducing a new car that slotted between the regular Chevrolet and the compact Chevy II, and that it would be called Chevelle. Cannot understand why this stayed with me since we were not a Chevy family.

andre1969

That got me thinking...when it comes to cars that had a few names or adjectives combined, was it normal to refer to the car by its "full" name? For instance, I simply refer to my '76 Pontiac as a "LeMans", even though it's really a Grand LeMans. My grandparents' '82 wagon was actually a Malibu Classic...they were all that name for '82; there was no simply "Malibu". But, we always just called it "Malibu". Grandmom or Granddad might have tacked on an adjective to its name every once in awhile, but it was not one that General Motors would want you to repeat...

I tend to refer to my '85 Chevy pickup as a Silverado, which causes problems if I have order a part for it. In 1985, Silverado was simply a trim level, and will not come up in the computers...I have to tell the clerk "C10".

On the subject of "Malibu", I'm glad that GM has stuck with it, to at least put a little consistency back into their lineup. And, it may not always be the best car in its class, but they are competent, at least. And, truth be told, that's about how the '64-83 models were. Even my grandparents' '82, as much as they hated it, was probably one of the better offerings in its class that year.

uplanderguy

I remember the Malibu series being multiple-times more popular, at least in used cars, than the entry-level 300 and 300 Deluxe, and later just Chevelle, series. Whenever I'd get a look at a NADA book as a teen, I'd frequently notice that even after a few years, a Malibu brought more than the same body style in the lower Chevelle series, than even the difference between the two was when new.

isellhondas

I knew a guy who got a fire sale deal on a three year old 1966 Chevelle 300 stripper.

It had a three speed manual and it was surprisingly quick!

fintail

Definitely. I remember back around 1987-88, there was a Crown Victoria glasstop that I would sometimes see parked on the street near my house. I thought it was the coolest thing. I doubt I would react likewise to any 1983 Ford.

texases said:

Age equivalent, but not neat-equivalent. 

fintail

You're probably pretty right - but even that is remarkable for a dowdy sedan of that era. It's all relative, 4 door post cars are the least desirable, but these have some following.

Fintails on the other hand, the price explosion has to be just around the corner, any day now

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's an extremely narrow niche market and I think will remain eternally stagnant---like pontons are.

Mr_Shiftright

I like Pontons..something very honest about them.

Fintails are more driveable on modern roads, however, so they have an advantage over the earlier cars.

fintail said:

You're probably pretty right - but even that is remarkable for a dowdy sedan of that era. It's all relative, 4 door post cars are the least desirable, but these have some following.

Fintails on the other hand, the price explosion has to be just around the corner, any day now

Mr_Shiftright said:

It's an extremely narrow niche market and I think will remain eternally stagnant---like pontons are.

fintail

If only they'd do a 190SL value explosion...oh well, this way I don't have to worry about restoration.

The now mildly famous MB specialist who helped me out back in the day has a lovely ponton - a 220SE, the most desirable sedan. One family owner, a charmer - I rode in it once. You don't see them like this too often:

Mr_Shiftright said:

I like Pontons..something very honest about them.

Fintails are more driveable on modern roads, however, so they have an advantage over the earlier cars.

uplanderguy

I knew a guy who got a fire sale deal on a three year old 1966 Chevelle 300 stripper.

It had a three speed manual and it was surprisingly quick!

My parents' first brand-new car was a '67 Chevelle 300 Deluxe 4-door, optional 250 six with 3-speed. I like '67 Chevelles and I can remember looking at it at the dealer's when new, and I remember when Dad brought it home. He was surprised to see it had sat at the dealer for three months, per the new-car prep sheet in the glovebox that showed it being "checked in".

It was built in Baltimore and had some smallish fit/things breaking issues under warranty, nothing big.

I remember as plain as day--the bottom of the window sticker was $2,470.00. Only options were an AM radio and the 250 six (a $26 option), and of course, destination to our dealer from Baltimore.

We had it until Oct. 6, 1972. It was fairly clean but dinged up (parking lot nicks) and had a small hole at the bottom of the LF fender and had 30K miles then. We got $550 trade-in value on a '73 Nova coupe.

Along the lines of what you were saying, I can remember our neighbor borrowing it once and telling Dad and me, "That's peppy for a six".

sda

uplanderguy said:

The first car I can remember my parents having was a '56 Chevy two-door sedan (series Two-Ten). I was born in '58 so you can tell we had it a long time--traded in '64. It was rusty, particularly over the headlights--a bad place for '55 and '56 Chevys. Someone pointed out to me at a show how the '57 had a 'screen' (sort-of) around the headlights, to let air in. I thought, "Wow, they were experiencing customer complaints about rust already on the '55 and '56", although another friend told me that screening was actually for fresh-air intake inside the car, although may have helped the '57's avoid rust in that particular area. For styling, I just don't care for the '57 at all, even inside, though. I'd take a '57 Ford Fairlane over a Chevy, although I've heard that the '57 Chevys simply lasted longer as used cars.

I could be very happy with a '55 or '56 Chevy Sport Coupe, Nomad, or even two-door sedan in any color but red and white.

Mom had a 55 210 2door sedan which dad took over after they married. Two tone, light blue upper, darker blue bottom. It was all manual, 6 cyl, am radio, cloth seats. Not sure if it had carpeting--I was about 7 when they sold it in 1966. Dad was just talking about it last week when I went over to visit them. He said it didn't have any rust, ran well and sold it to a work buddy for $75! He had gotten his first company car, a new Ford Custom 500, white, 289, a/c. Didn't need three cars in the driveway.

ab348

Our '78 Grand LeMans Safari was built in Baltimore and was a real mess in terms of assembly quality. Just awful. I assume that plant is long gone now.

andre1969

ab348 said:

Our '78 Grand LeMans Safari was built in Baltimore and was a real mess in terms of assembly quality. Just awful. I assume that plant is long gone now.

I wonder if GM tried to start tightening the body gaps on the downsized cars, but maybe the technology wasn't there yet, to do it consistently right. The only real complaint I have about my '76 LeMans is that the body panel gaps are a bit wide. But at least they're pretty consistent, and everything seems to line up pretty well.

At that car show in Pennsylvania I went to last week, we were checking out a '78-79 Olds Ninety-Eight Diesel that looked lovingly maintained. I'm pretty sure it was all original, as I don't think too many people are doing full-blown restorations of cars like this just yet. Anyway, the gaps were tighter, but very inconsistent. Creases didn't line up as they went from one body panel to the other, the doors were in serious need of adjustment, etc.

I don't remember my Mom's '80 Malibu, or Grandmom's '85 LeSabre, etc being put together too sloppily, but I also hadn't yet developed an eye for fit and finish issues yet, either! One thing I do remember about the Malibu though, is that the carpet kept kept pulling loose toward the back of the door sill.

ab348

Our '78 had so many issues I can't begin to remember them all. But the ones I do remember were things like the window cranks standing proud of the door panels by 3/4", the driver's door window falling into the door, the interior rear C-pillar trim being about 1/2" away from the roof rail trim, the dash having the wrong trim panel on it (it said SAFARI), the dash air vents not blowing air, the drivers door panel not fastened at the top, and all kinds of material quality issues. Not long after we got it the recall for potentially losing the rear axle shafts arrived. Not GM's best days.

fintail

Took the old dear up to the annual Seattle area MBCA event this morning - cruised along at ~65 just fine. It was a little warmer than predicted this afternoon, mid 80s - so the car was a bit of an oven on the drive back. Ran sweet and definitely kept up with the usually plodding local traffic.

uplanderguy

Nothing better than when your old car is running great! My Studes always seemed enjoy cool morning weather.

I took my last one, the '66, to South Bend's Studebaker Drivers' Club international meet in '12. I drove on Ohio state routes to the Indiana border. I just loved it. It ran well and I loved driving through some small towns and country scenery too. I did find out how off the fuel gauge was on that trip though--luckily I didn't get stranded.

I remember I could've been wrung out like a sponge by the time I got to South Bend, but it was great fun.

A friend sent me some info this morning, that somebody sent him about a '64 Cruiser in Jet Green (my favorite color that year) for sale, 36K miles, by an older guy. I'm sorely tempted to inquire, but hooboy would I be in the dog house, particularly since we just paid tuition for two at Miami U. and no vacation this year.

fintail

That reminds me, the fuel gauge has never worked properly - it reads OK til about 3/4-2/3, then full all the time. The low fuel light works. I usually fill it up every time I drive it, no worries then.

You'll have another project car sometime, uplanderguy

gsemike

Hot Rod Truck


Saw this for sale at the local supermarket and was reasonably impressed. 1987. Owner said it was an original CA truck and had original paint. Had rust in the rockers behind the doors but quarters were clean as a whistle. Truck had a healthy sounding 454, power windows and locks, color matched fiberglass cowl hood and interior was clean. Ask was $7800

Rare to see these as survivors. They all normally rusted to hell within 10 years

Mr_Shiftright

Pricey.

gsemike

Mr_Shiftright said:

Pricey.

Something this clean is pretty rare to see here that I'd have no reference point. How much is it worth by you?

Mr_Shiftright

You have to understand that I'm thinking "California" here where rust is a big no-no. So with that bias in mind, to a buyer out here I would estimate the fair market value is around $4500--$5200 if everything is up to snuff otherwise on the truck. If it has some other custom touches, maybe a bit more to $5500. At $7500, you can buy yourself some pretty nice truck iron from the 70s and early 80s, that wouldn't be rusty and might be easier on fuel.

andre1969

Would the engine add much in value to that truck? From what I can gather from EPA data, GM dropped the 454 from light duty trucks after 1978, and it didn't come back until 1990. So, that 454 is most likely non-stock. A problem if you're a purist I guess, but I'm sure it would make it a helluva lot more fun than the 305 or 350 that most of these came with.

stickguy

Make it a short bed step side, and we can talk.

fintail

Saw one of those odd Type 34 Karmann Ghias in downtown Bellevue - Euro only model IIRC.

andre1969

On the way to work this morning, I passed an old GMC medium duty dump truck...the style that used the cab from the '73-87 pickups. Looked kinda like this:



I thought it was kinda cool, because it's not that often I see work trucks this old still earning their keep. Looked like it was in pretty good shape, too.

gsemike

300ZX
I AM seriously thinking of a late 80s 300ZX for next seasson. I ser it as affordable and easy to live with entry to the hobby.  
It will have to be a 5 speed 2+ 2 non turbo with 2 tops.  Any guidance on these?  What do I need to watch out for?  Do these cars have timing belts? 

Mr_Shiftright

Yes they do. HERE'S A GOOD FAQ INFO PAGE on the Z31 models.

gsemike

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yes they do. HERE'S A GOOD FAQ INFO PAGE on the Z31 models.

Awesome resource. Thanks.

Another question: classic insurance without a garage. Is it possible?

Mr_Shiftright

Not likely. Best thing to do is ask your insurance company if they will accept an appraisal and insure it for that amount---that way, the appraisal is on file, as opposed to them settling up with you based on "book" value---

gsemike

Camaro 4x4

http://newyork.craigslist.org/wch/cto/5160935628.html Poor guys thinks he is actually getting a fraction of his money back for this crime

stever

Nice console.

gsemike

stever said:

Nice console.

I think that is original

stever

Looks like some welded aluminum stock "from the pile" with some gauges cobbled on.