Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

berri

And as the rental counter lady calmly said after the tirade, "your f....d". One can often get that feeling in today's world of travel

fintail

In the fintail, it's easy to count the shifts - you'd have to be pretty distracted to miss the downshifts, and while the upshifts are much smoother, they might be scary to people used to modern cars. I've learned over the years that if I let off the throttle just as I feel the shift coming on, it shifts much smoother, sometimes almost like a modern car.

I don't think I've seen a 60s MB automatic failure, although I am sure neglect can make it happen.

hpmctorque said:

The early Powerglides were very durable, and I'm guessing that the Dynaflows were too, but I don't have first hand evidence to back up the latter. Ford used Borg Warner units for the early Fordomatic and Mercomatic, and were okay on durability, so long as they weren't abused. Chrysler 2-Speed PowerFlytes were durable.

The Hydramatics without torque converters was very rugged and durable. Don't know much about the 4-speed units introduced in '56, with torque converters, but I think they were durable.

Unlike most people I'm okay with feeling the shifts, so I like dual-clutch transmissions for their efficiency, in terms of minimal power loss.

sda

This was (black and white picture) of my mom and her 55 Chevy. It was a 6 cylinder, manual everything, am radio. I believe it was the 210 model. It was the same color as the blue shown from a picture I found online. Da
d sold mom's 55 for $75 in 1965!https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Mea279f98ede08c2540d8211fad6d70a0H0&w=138&h=105&c=7&rs=1&qlt=90&pid=3.1&rm=2

berri

The 55 Chevy was quite a leap, styling and engineering. That blue and white two tone made for a nice looking car.

uplanderguy

I still love the '55 Chevy, followed by the '56. Not interested in the '57.

berri

I think the 57 Chevy got popular because of the 283 replacing the 265?

Mr_Shiftright

It was the fins. The '55 and '56 were considered a tad too conservative compared to the competition I think.

uplanderguy

Old news now, literally, but the '57 Chevy was outsold by the '57 Ford. You'd never know it now.

fintail

The 57 might have too much gingerbread. 55-56 are actually pretty clean designs. 56 Nomad has always looked right to me.

berri

The 57 Chevy looked old compared to the 57 Ford and Plymouth. But the tin worm and other quality gaps made the 57 Chevy the long-lived one.

sda

Something I learned recently and found interesting was with the ' new 'design in 55 small block Chevy 265 didn't come with an oil filter. That was a separate add on. Unless a person was really diligent in frequently changing the oil, I imagine some of those engines didn't last long. In 56 they made the oil filter standard on the 265.


I was flipping thru the many worthless tv channels and happened upon a 58 Ford starting up. Ford had a very distinctive sounding starter. My 62 sounded the same, and I never liked how it sounded---kind of a lazy unrefined sound, almost as if the battery was weak. I know some people didn't like higher pitched and more energetic sound of the starter of Chrysler products, but that I found unique.

stickguy

wasn't that known as the 'Hamtrack Humingbird" or some such?

Mr_Shiftright

gear-reduction starters make that noise. I think 1962 was the first year for Chrysler Corp. cars to use them. Interestingly, not used on the original 66-69 426 Hemi. These GR starters were Chrysler's own manufacture--prior to 1962, they bought from Autolite.

fintail

Patiently waiting to come out into the sun, while I park the modern car:



Out for a drive, the first good relaxing drive in maybe 6-7 weeks:



I put maybe 40-50 miles on it today, started right up, ran fine. No braking issues, I really suspect it was just a sticking parking brake. If the weather is nice next Sunday, I will take it on another 100 mile highway trip. I also seem to have cured the radio area rattle, which pleases me.

stickguy

Fin, do you put a car cover on yours too?

I see that occasionally. Was in DC a few weeks ago, and parked in a garage downtown. In one of the spots was something long and low under a cover. Might have been a suicide door Lincoln. In any case, that garage was so tight to maneuver in, I would not want to drive a land yacht like that in and out!

fintail

Yep, I cover it. It's a dust magnet. That's not its exact spot either, I moved it to park the modern car in its spot (crowded garage too), and thought it looked appealing under the light.

There are a number of interesting cars in the garage - early Esprit, early RR Shadow, Gallardo, nice 635 CSI, Alfa Spider. a couple Avanti IIs, Impala SS, 64 Pontiac, 66 Toro, 55 Chevy...most never seem to move.

fintail

I think this is a Dunham Corvorado - hard to get more obscure

Can't be many of these left

uplanderguy

The former--boy, that's some underhood accessibility, isn't it? LOL

The latter--I know pics hide stuff, but that car looks pretty decent for over 30 years old.

Mr_Shiftright

RE:Corvorado --- awesome! I'd buy that in a minute if it wasn't so far away (need to see it in person). I bet you could clean that up a bit and flip it for 3X.

RE: Ford Tempo diesel -- what are "head seals" I wonder? I'd give this one the "Shiftright Road Test" -- take it out for 1/2 hour, run it hard. "If it'll go 50 miles without something awful happening, it'll probably go 5,000".

Mr_Shiftright

Owner says "I Don't Need To Sell This"

Now there's a self-fulfilling prophecy if I ever heard one!

Not sure what he means by "original 6 pack". I think he means a 2X4 manifold.

Mr_Shiftright

Might Be Worth $50K restored, which means....

in this condition he should give it to you for free.

fintail

Spend 50K to get 50K (on a good day in an auction filled with drunks?), that's a good ROI, right?

The location of the Corvorado doesn't bode well, but if it is actually solid, it is worth it to the right person. That's a really rare custom, I have only seen them in period movies. Not my style, but I respect the obscurity.

The condition of the Tempo diesel is typical for old cars around here that have received a little care. Rust is rare, even in a Tempo. We had an 85 Tempo in my family until 1999 and about 190K miles. I remember seeing a diesel Tempo in the junkyard around 1995, I pulled the stock stereo out of it when the one in ours conked out (waste of money, it did the same less than 6 months later). It was in really nice shape, but something must have doomed it. The generally modern shape of most Fords of that era helps them age well too - hard to believe a Taurus can be a 30 year old car eligible for vintage plates in most areas now.

Mr_Shiftright

Vintage plates on a Taurus re-inforces my belief in the adage: "when everything is a classic, then nothing is a classic".

fintail

Several years ago I saw vintage plates on a Citation. That did it for me.

fintail

Stopped by the auto auction this morning, not much to mention there. Barnfind Mark IV:



Neglected W201 190D in a nice color:



Neglected 944:



Neglected 450 SEL in a pretty color combination (interior was kind of a light creamy beige):



And this extremely clean 87 Celebrity Eurosport - these have almost gone extinct here:



It was a modestly equipped car - Eurosport, but 2.5, manual windows, etc. The interior was that hard wearing GM velour of the era, maybe something that the General got right:



Indicated 75K miles and likely original, the car was definitely grandpa's baby. It smelled like stale gas inside, really odd. Then I saw this note taped to the dash, which explained it:



Not something you see every day. I suspect the bids didn't fly in. Strange thing, on the way home I saw another Celebrity Eurosport, a coupe in this same color, that looked pristine and appeared to be on 24" wheels. Unfortunately, my dashcam was begging for a reformat, and the file didn't save.

andre1969

fintail said:

Several years ago I saw vintage plates on a Citation. That did it for me.

I remember back in the late 90's, 2000 at best, seeing an early round-headlight Chevette with Maryland historic plates being used to deliver pizzas. I think that's what did it for me. At one time, in Maryland, your car had to be at least 25 years old to get historic plates, but at some point they reduced it to 20. And annoyingly, it's calendar years, not model years. I remember applying for historic plates on my '79 5th Avenue in early January 2004. It's possible that the cutoff by then may have been 20 years though, and I didn't know it.

fintail

I just looked it up, WA has a 30 year rule, probably because cars age slower here. That means timeless classics like the Excel and Yugo are eligible, as well as well-loved vintage vehicles like the Tempo, Taurus (an important design, anyway), early mopar minivans, first year popup headlight Accords, all years of angular Camry, etc.

andre1969 said:

I remember back in the late 90's, 2000 at best, seeing an early round-headlight Chevette with Maryland historic plates being used to deliver pizzas. I think that's what did it for me. At one time, in Maryland, your car had to be at least 25 years old to get historic plates, but at some point they reduced it to 20. And annoyingly, it's calendar years, not model years. I remember applying for historic plates on my '79 5th Avenue in early January 2004. It's possible that the cutoff by then may have been 20 years though, and I didn't know it.

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes I think the old car hobby is starting to use the word "classic" like Hollywood uses the word "genius".

fintail

I think some of the terms just need updating. Today, a 30 year old Ford sedan looks like this:



Where 30 years ago, a 30 year old Ford sedan looked like this (I like these 4 door HTs):

stever

That 30 year old Ford may not be the best example. Pretty classic lines to my way of thinking.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, really gets a man's heart to pounding.....

bhill2

Yeah, I've always thought 4-door hardtops are pretty sweet.

fintail

The 30 year old car of 2016 might not be a sentimental classic, but it is still an important car. Not sure if it warrants classic plates though, maybe give it another 10 years.

fintail

Nice Lexus

The Ford 4 door HTs of the era generally weren't bad looking - the other makes weren't bad looking either.

bhill2 said:

Yeah, I've always thought 4-door hardtops are pretty sweet. There are, of course, exceptions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Plymouth-Fury-4-Door-Hardtop-Automobile-Photo-Poster-zuc1933-QXA6S6-/370837189130?hash=item56579e720a:g:-~wAAOxyjNlR3rq7

Mr_Shiftright

I dunno...those cars are so generic by that time. They could be a 1986 Anything really. I suppose one could find cassette or 8-track decks amusing but the technology is boring, the styling very vanilla.

But I suppose you could say the same about a Model A Ford.

Mr_Shiftright

And Now It's Time for the Rocky Craigslist Horror Picture Show:

This should be a punishable offense:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5613030361.html

Hey, here's one o' them "classics". The price is right (and probably market correct)

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5585225542.html

sda

Mr_Shiftright said:

And Now It's Time for the Rocky Craigslist Horror Picture Show:

This should be a punishable offense:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5613030361.html

Hey, here's one o' them "classics". The price is right (and probably market correct)

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/5585225542.html

Mom had an 87 Taurus LX (top of the line) in the same solid cranberry color and two tone silver/charcoal bottom. It was loaded and had the moonroof and premium stereo. Oddly it didn't have the upgraded instrument cluster, only speedometer, gas, temp gauge, no tachometer. There was even an optional digital instrument cluster that was popular on the LX. Thankfully the car did not experience the heater core leak that plagued so many of these cars. It was a good trouble free car that they owned for 10+ years. Hard to believe that car is almost 30 years old!

fintail

The Taurus/Sable could be a 1993 anything, which is why it was important for 1986. Those things looked like spaceships compared to the domestic competition when new. Other than the pick your poison Achilles heel (transmission or head gasket), they were a leap forward.

My uncle had one of the earliest Taurus I recall seeing, a 1986 L. It was pretty sparsely optioned - it had a V6 (3.0) but little else - manual windows, no AC, no cruise, "frisbee" hubcaps. Apparently options were still ala carte on these. It lost a transmission at 150K, but cosmetically it aged well, and still looked like a later model car at 10 years old - something common now, but not so much back then.

That Z3 reminds me of a weathered old fighter plane or something.

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe more like a "hop" than a "leap"?

fintail

I dunno, if I compare it to a Celebrity or other A-body, or even the LTD II it replaced, it's like from a different planet. Of course, they did have faults, but I remember these being a big thing among mainstream cars.

texases

There have been a few cars that, when they first came out, I just stared. The Taurus was one.

Mr_Shiftright

I think it was regarded more as a styling, and thus an economic, achievement for Ford rather than a technological one. Ford had already begun the transition to FWD with earlier models, and was rather late to that party at any rate.

Nonetheless, the Taurus car certainly influenced other American designers in a significant way. Definitely a home run for Ford.

I think if the car had more dominance in performance, like say the Buick Grand National, it might have enjoyed more status than it gets today.

Would the '55 Chevy have become the icon it is today if it didn't have the small block V-8? I don't think so.

sda

The Taurus MT-5, with the 5 speed manual was appealing to me at the time. You could option it up like an LX but you could not get the V6, only the weak 4 cylinder.

The European influenced models such as the Pontiac STE, Celebrity Eurosport, Olds International Series, Dodge ES attracted my attention. I wanted them to be as good as a European car, they were an improvement and had some neat features, but did not offer the balanced driving dynamics of the cars they were trying to emulate.

uplanderguy

I'm not a Ford guy by any stretch, but I don't think the influence of the original Taurus can be underestimated today. For one, the general 'jellybean' shape, like it or hate it, is still in general use today; plus, it was the first car of its type, that I can remember, anyway--family "midsize"--that wasn't available in a coupe; another harbinger of things to come.

First time I rented one, I was pretty impressed with the room and fold-down center armrest of the back seat. One thing I hated--it was the first domestic (well, since the Studebaker Scotsman!) that came with painted hubcaps!

About the Celebrity Eurosport--I ordered a new '85 two-door. It was that solid, very dark-plum color (whatever it was called). Many were that color over silver, but mine was solid, with the blackout moldings. I ordered it with the 2.8 MFI V6 and Goodyear Eagle GT tires (I think), on aluminum wheels (same wheels as Citation X-11). I ordered the extra gauges which reminded me of a stereo receiver--very thin needles. I ordered the factory "Extended Range Sound" system which even got you a little emblem on the dash. I have a pic of the car; too bad I don't have a scanner or feel like learning how to post here (LOL).

One really dumb design feature was that if you didn't order tilt wheel (like I didn't), the fat steering wheel completely hid the entire speedometer range when the seat was in a place where I put it.

I ordered the standard interior (same corduroy-like material as in the earlier pic, above) in the same dark plum color, but in bucket seats. The upgraded interior buckets were a velour-like 40/40 seat, instead of a bucket.

When I ordered the car, I had to take the 4-speed automatic, which I didn't want. They also told me the aluminum wheels were on backorder. I said if it came in without them, I wasn't buying it as I hated the steel wheels.

I entertained the thought of buying an X-11--same chassis, same size, less price--but figured I'd be beat up on trade-in, back when I traded every three years or so. When I ordered my Eurosport they had already announced that the X-cars were being discontinued.

uplanderguy

This is an '86, but if you remove two doors and paint it solid plum, this looks very much like my '85--same wheels and color:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/20/c1/68/20c168e6276928ba5c9efd48c601c508.jpg

tjc78

texases said:

There have been a few cars that, when they first came out, I just stared. The Taurus was one.

I always thought the first generation Intrepid was one of those.  

uplanderguy

I, too, thought the first Intrepids were beautiful cars...sporty for a large family sedan. And yes, I like that dark green that most of them seemed to be painted in.

sda

I thought that the entire family of cars, Intrepid, Vision, Concord were real lookers, especially in up level trim. I also liked the LHS, which had a very elegant look to it. Their styling really set them apart from what was being offered in '93.

omarman

I don't know where to place the Ford Taurus in auto history, but ...
I think if the car (ANY 80's CAR) had more dominance in performance, like say the Buick Grand National, it might have enjoyed more status than it gets today. I mean the Cadillac Cimarron GNX may have been legendary now...had there ever been such a thing.

Mr_Shiftright said:

Nonetheless, the Taurus car certainly influenced other American designers in a significant way. Definitely a home run for Ford.

I think if the car had more dominance in performance, like say the Buick Grand National, it might have enjoyed more status than it gets today.

Would the '55 Chevy have become the icon it is today if it didn't have the small block V-8? I don't think so.

I really doubt that '55 Chevy love came from the 265 mouse hiding under the hood. As opposed to the Pontiac GTO story for example. Without a big block engine the Pontiac muscle car would have had an entirely different story/history. But the shoe box Chevys and later 60's bubble tops have a certain winning GM style from that era. And "Body by Fisher" was solid in its mass appeal and sturdiness. The sbc engine may have been like frosting on the cake in 1955 but the real beauty was/is skin deep.

Mr_Shiftright

Well it's interesting to speculate about that, given that the value of American collectible cars today is often based on engine size. Perhaps the argument is more along the lines of "popular" vs. "collectible". Nobody (at least nobody I know) collects Tauruses. But I'm sure there's one in the Ford Museum somewhere.