Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

Just stop overnight every 150 miles, you'll be here in no more than 10 days. Quicker than walking!

By immigrant, I meant Californicators, of course

Mr_Shiftright

California is the largest single state sending immigrants to Washington, (33,000 of us last year) but Texas and Oregon aren't too far behind, and all 3 of those states are but 42% (64,000 people total)--the other 58% come from all over the USA, and even 9,000 from outside the USA. King County had the largest growth in 2015.

This is good news for values of mid-60s Mercedes sedans.

fintail

Yep, fintail prices are slated to rise by dozens of dollars this year

Better news for lucky group members who bought residential real estate in my zip code in 1986 - a 150K purchase then could easily yield 1.5MM now.

Mr_Shiftright

It would be interesting to figure in taxes, insurance, repairs, mortgage interest and rate of inflation--I bet it's not nearly as big a yield as it looks.

It's like with restoring a car and then selling it--it seems like a big payoff but when you include everything you spent on the car to not only buy it, but repair it, store it, insurance it, etc---no wonder so many people barely break even.

texases

Two eye-opening restorations on Fantom Works last night:
repairing a mildly crashed '64 GTO, $61,000
bringing a '70 Stingray back to life after 30 years of storage, ~$80,000 (full paint job required)

stickguy

Usually those crash repairs involve other upgrades, improvements and fixes, "while we are in there".

I have that episode on DVR.

texases

This was pretty much crash repair, almost all metal work, only one fender replaced, because no replacements were available.

Mr_Shiftright

jpp75

sda said:

You really can't put a value on enjoyment, that is the ultimate reward in my opinion. While it is enjoyable to you, it may not be to me. But that's it--your enjoyment!

I remember when I was in college and I bought and sold some cheap cars. A '65 Cutlass hardtop, optioned similar to a 442 had factory buckets, console, tach, 330 high compression 4bbl/single exhaust, was one I (20:20 hindsight) should have kept. That car I could still enjoy.

One car that gave me tremendous enjoyment and I lost money on was a '70 DeVille convertible. It was originally the local dealer's wife's car and was fully loaded. I think the only thing it didn't have was the split bench seat. It had the auto on/off lights and auto diming, tilt, telescope wheel, rear defrost, 4 speaker am/fm stereo, separate factory Cadillac 8 track mounted under the dash, a/c, pw, pl, 6 way pwr seat, trunk release with lid pull down, auto leveling rear (air shocks) suspension. It was pretty worn out but solid when I bought it in '82. I spent 2 years painting, fixing it up and enjoyed driving it. My dad even picked up his boss at the airport in it when his '79 Eldorado Diesel was in the shop (again). I reluctantly sold it as I was moving to NC and needed the money. I know I lost money on it, but the enjoyment I had with it is still a good memory.

My parents had a 69 Olds 442 hardtop. It was the first new car they bought after they married, he still talks about how much he loved it.

fintail

It all depends on the car, and the location. Had one stashed away highline early 911s and 190SLs etc 30 years ago, not to mention some higher end cars, they could have made out too, even after expenses. If one stashed away a bunch of new Corvettes, not so much. Maybe the key is not to restore, just as it might be to not rebuild a house, but just keep it "healthy".

Inflation is difficult, as so many facets of life inflate differently. Today we have cheap electronics, expensive food and housing, not to mention education and healthcare. Maybe a better measure is typical income compared to house price or mortgage. Luck is a factor. A good job then might have paid 50K and is 150K now, but the house was 150K then and is 1500K or more now.

stickguy

And if you didn't buy, would have spent a bundle on rent.

gsemike

texases said:

Two eye-opening restorations on Fantom Works last night:
repairing a mildly crashed '64 GTO, $61,000
bringing a '70 Stingray back to life after 30 years of storage, ~$80,000 (full paint job required)

I really like that show as I think that its a little more realistic than most except for maybe Graveyard Carz. But I thought that it was funny that they're running promos for Phantom Works trumpteing 'the bad boy of automative restoration is back'. In reality, he is probably the most subdued and reserved guy on any of these shows.

stever

Here's a gold mine.

Jaguar right hand drive 420 - $1800

Minor sun damage.

stickguy

you can always help pay for it, by getting a side job as a mailman.

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

California is the largest single state sending immigrants to Washington, (33,000 of us last year) but Texas and Oregon aren't too far behind, and all 3 of those states are but 42% (64,000 people total)--the other 58% come from all over the USA, and even 9,000 from outside the USA. King County had the largest growth in 2015.

This is good news for values of mid-60s Mercedes sedans.

Mr_Shiftright

stever said:

Here's a gold mine.

Jaguar right hand drive 420 - $1800

Minor sun damage.

$500 as a parts car.

isellhondas

Mr_Shiftright said:

California is the largest single state sending immigrants to Washington, (33,000 of us last year) but Texas and Oregon aren't too far behind, and all 3 of those states are but 42% (64,000 people total)--the other 58% come from all over the USA, and even 9,000 from outside the USA. King County had the largest growth in 2015.

This is good news for values of mid-60s Mercedes sedans.

Oh, I can believe that about King County! Thanks but we are now overstuffe

Mr_Shiftright

A lot of it depends on how much rental property exists in an area.

berri

I wonder how many move back out of the PNW after a year or two because of all the cloudy weather, except for summer? But the PNW is certainly on a growth spurt which will probably not just add to congestion, but down the road will jack up taxes to pay for all the infrastructure that rapid growth requires. The locals will also get screwed because that rapid growth jacks up house prices, so unless you are leaving the area, it makes it all the harder to move up.

fintail

Rental property? Maybe for singles or childless couples who like shoebox apartments - plenty of those being built. Houses within reasonable commutes? Not so much. We're overstuffed, indeed.

stever

The old timers complain that allowing all the new development around here just depresses their existing house prices.

Plenty of room down here - just BYOB*.

*of water....

Mr_Shiftright

Someday water might be the new sign of wealth. Instead of driving huge cars that get 8 mpg, or leaving your lights on,l or covering yourself in gold, wealth will be displayed by having water to waste.

You have to admit, if two people are bartering gold for water, we know who is going to get the better part of that deal.

bhill2

Yup, the ultimate status symbol will be a lawn.

stever

That's actually already true to some extent here.

bhill2

stever said:

That's actually already true to some extent here.

Here, at least until recently, watering your lawn outside of specified times or allowing runoff got you fined (not to mention draconian increases in water rates beyond a certain usage). Is it the same there?

stever

There's time restrictions in the city to lessen evaporation losses and I think runoff is frowned upon (although I may be thinking of Boise). The big rub here is that it's a big pecan growing area, and that crop is thirsty. The Rio Grande is dry about 8 months out of the year while they store water for the ag community. There's a push on to require instream flow year round for habitat protection and enhancement.

Maybe if we all drove Mirais, we'd be okay. It runs on hydrogen and only emits water vapor.

fintail

BYOB and maybe BYOJ (as in job?). That seems to be a big issue for a lot of cheaper areas, at least in terms of private sector work. I'd have no problem not having a lawn - desert style lawns are fine. I never got the attraction of having a pool either - a literal money pit.

Had the old project car out on the road, drove 40 miles exactly. No issues, started right up and ran like a top, as usual turned a few heads, and even got a thumbs up from a guy in a Mazda 3. It did have a quirk - soon after I started off, I could hear a noise coming from the driver's side rear wheel area, where the brake issue was several weeks ago. I think something was sticking again, probably the parking brake as I had just released it. Something to add to the list when it goes in for its yearly service next month. On top of that, I think the shocks are getting old - I pulled them off a parts car 15 years ago, and they seem to be a little clunky now.

berri

Someday, and it may be awhile, I expect a resurrection of the Midwest and Northeast because of fresh water availability.

stever

Pools are nice, at least 3 or 4 months here. I enjoyed one earlier today. And some say that they use less water than lawns. Hard to beat rock and gravel though. And yeah, BYOJ helps too.

What's that on your dash @fintail? Tweety?

ab348

Up here the city charges a fee (many call it a ditch tax) for storm sewer maintenance and construction. They assess each property for the amount of impervious area (roof, driveway, walkway, etc) and use that to determine the amount of runoff and hence your bill. Cockamamie bureaucracy run amok. I don't know how they would assess a yard full of rock. I suppose someone would have to measure the area of large impervious rocks versus pea gravel or other porous types of rock coverage.

Yeah, it rains a bit here.

stever

The new house nearby has a very shallow looking area dug out for their septic so I guess the rock here perks good. We're near the mountains but it's like an alluvial fan. There's some flood zones near us too. Go figure.

I think Denver finally quit fining people for having rain barrels.

Here's just the thing for hauling those rain barrels home from the big box store - not sure how much of a project it is. Sure doesn't need new paint.

Mr_Shiftright

Project cars seems to be less and less tenable these days.

I went to look at a 1999 BMW Z3 the other day. It has a slashed rear plastic window in the convertible top, it needs brakes, it needs driver's seat upholstery, it needs tires, the seat track is broken, the AC doesn't work---and he wants $4000 with "NO LOWBALLERS".

Yeah, well, he'll be baking that car a birthday cake every year.

stickguy

shifty, what happened to that lowish mile X3 from a few weeks back? That seemed like a good deal.

Don't get me started on pools. we put one in (wife's idea, not mine) about 10 years ago. of course I do all the work on it, and never got used like it was supposed to. And now, stuff (pumps) are wearing out due to age, so it is sucking me dry. And I am spending a silly amount of time now cleaning it, for almost no use (no kids home this summer)

should have invested in a few dump trucks full of dirt and a back hoe instead of rebuilding the damn thing. I would not miss it, and when I go to sell, I doubt it will return more money!

Mr_Shiftright

You won't be the first to call the dump truck, believe me.

I do keep a bird bath, however.

Oh, car hunting.... I'm not a shoot from the hip impulse buyer but rather "I'll know it when I see it", then I can pull the trigger really fast. But I have to sift through lots of information first. Then, once I really KNOW what I want, it happens real fast.

I spent nearly 6 months hunting for a used pickup truck. I created a list of what was not negotiable, put aside the cash, and the day I met the truck that checked off all the boxes, that was it.

It has proven to be a very good truck, too.

I've never subscribed to the idea of "act fast it might be gone!"

Sure, I've missed a few good deals, but also missed a few bad ones I'm sure.

It's like when I am thankful on Thanksgiving. I always say: "I'm thankful for what I didn't want, and didn't get".

fintail

Pools are like boats, best to enjoy one that belongs to someone else, let them deal with the maintenance and headache.

It's an old 60s era bobblehead. I saw a movie ages ago where someone had an old car with one on the dash, and it seemed like a good idea, I've probably had it there for 20 years now.

stever said:

Pools are nice, at least 3 or 4 months here. I enjoyed one earlier today. And some say that they use less water than lawns. Hard to beat rock and gravel though. And yeah, BYOJ helps too.

What's that on your dash @fintail? Tweety?

berri

There's some flood zones near us too. Go figure

Your topography looks rather desert, so you've may have a few innocent looking little ditches that can become gully's with raging rapids in a hurry. The desert can be a dangerous place when it rains (and it can rain hard in a sudden burst).

stever

Yep, you won't catch me trying to cross one and I even know how to swim rapids.

andre1969

I've been casually looking at open houses on the weekend, and initially I've tried to get homes with a pool out of my mind. But this past Saturday, in mid 90 degree weather, I went to an open house that happened to have a pool. Gotta admit, it looked VERY inviting!



You know how you're not supposed to go grocery shopping when you're starving, and you're not supposed to wait until your old car dies and you HAVE to buy a new one before you start shopping? Maybe they need to add "don't look at a house with a swimming pool on a hot day" to that list!

My grandmother's cousin had a swimming pool put in back in 1971. At the time, she was around 46-47, and did just about all the maintenance on it herself. It's actually been fairly trouble-free, and over the decades there's been a lot of good memories associated with that pool. As a kid, the pool parties she threw were the highlight of the summer. Now that she's pushing 92, she's starting to regret it, but whenever she starts talking ill about it, I just keep trying to tell her to remember all those good times.

It just hit me...I'm 46 now, so I'm around the age she was, when she had that swimming pool put in. So who knows, maybe I'll repeat the cycle? And, I'll admit, my truck looked pretty good parked in front of that house!

fintail

Nice house, to me it has a 60s-70s look to it, maybe an old NYer or Pontiac would look good parked there too. What does something like that run in MD?

When I was a kid, an aunt and uncle had an in-ground pool - not the most common thing even with the warm summers of eastern WA. I think my family visited them more once they had the pool

andre1969

It was $729K. Here's the complete listing. My first thought was "Suddenly it's 1978!", but it was built in 1983. It had a den off of the living room that had this textured wallpaper stuff that somewhat resembled rattan, or flattened bamboo. VERY dated, but in good condition.

One major bonus is that, even though the house only has a 2-car garage, at least it's a large-ish 2 car garage. I could easily fit the DeSoto and 5th Ave, my two longest cars in, with room to spare. I've seen some houses where, even though they're advertised as a 2-car garage, they often have a small staircase going up to the side door, that cuts one of the bays to about 15 feet.

I'd have to build a second garage, but at least this house has a large, level yard. Some of the homes I've looked at might have had large lots, but they would be hilly, have mature trees, etc, and just not very conducive to building a second garage. One of them was also on a steep hill, and I just kept having these mental images of my DeSoto at the top of the hill, losing its brakes...it wasn't a pretty image!

fintail

Nice house. Definitely kind of a dated design for 1983, but it is attractive. Interesting that it has kind of a modest kitchen, too - which isn't always a bad thing, as the ostentatious kitchens in modern houses can be tiresome. If you'd be spending anything close to that much, the expense for a garage would be a drop in the bucket In my neighborhood, the land alone for that place would probably be over 2MM.

I have seen those iffy 2 car garages, too. Even from when cars were large, garages sometimes didn't compensate. My grandmother is the original owner of an early 60s rambler, with a 2 car garage that would have been a modern amenity at the time. I look at it now, and can't see how they fit two cars in there - and my grandfather always had a barge, too. Looks like it would have been tight with his fuselage Chrysler.

berri

That house is very colonial looking and fits your Maryland location. Now a few northeastern ice storms and the pool could double as a skating rink Most new houses seem to have very small garages. My big concern is whether these big house price jumps are for real, or another Federal Reserve created bubble waiting to pop down the road. Of course, if you are long term that probably doesn't really matter I suppose.

andre1969

I looked up some records online, and this house last sold in August of 1990 for $394K. That would equate to around $721K in today's dollars, so essentially it's keeping pace with inflation. What was that old yarn about real estate being a solid investment?

But, I look at a house as a place to live, not a place to make money off of. And I intend my next house to be something that I stay in for a long time, until I either die in it or am too old to be able to care for it. Who knows though...I might feel differently as I get older. Supposedly there's an old saying that nobody retires TO Maryland. I guess it's considered one of those areas where you live here, make your money and deal with the taxes, and then when you retire, go someplace cheaper.

I do have a feeling that this house will go lower in price. Davidsonville is a pretty prestigious area for these parts, but there are also plenty of communities where the houses are newer and more luxurious. I think this one gets hurt a bit by the dated kitchen and fairly ordinary bathrooms. There's also no bathroom in the basement, which is another strike against it. And, the swimming pool does limit its market as well.

tjc78

Taxes?? That house in NJ would be 12-15K in taxes. At $6300 It's only $300 more than my very modest ranch house on a postage stamp lot!

Mr_Shiftright

I'm looking at all that lawn and I feel a sense of fatigue coming over me.

berri

I'd retire where your family and friends are. I think that's most important. When I was based out of Orlando, more than a few retired people moved there, only to turn around and move back. Of course that is not always feasible because sometimes kids finish college and leave, friends get transferred away, etc. If that's the case, then you probably want to be somewhere with good highway access and air service.

stickguy

In 2 years my youngest graduates college. Hopefully she goes someplace I like. We could follow her. My son ended up in Albany, and could be there long term. Wife would be happy, but I'm not retiring to NY!

berri

I traveled around the country a lot before retiring. My impression generally is that while climate and topography can differ, otherwise America is really kind of homogenous - same kind of stores, restaurants, malls. Houses can differ a bit, but mostly cosmetic to reflect the climate like stucco versus vinyl siding or no basements when the soil is rocky or soggy. Now taxes, that's another matter - BUT be careful because there can be hidden gotcha's sometimes. For example, Florida taxes assets, while Washington state has an excise tax on home sales, etc. which can potentially offset some of the no income taxes (not to mention an income tax can always be implemented after you move to a place). I'm still looking for the elysian fields

Mr_Shiftright

There's no paradise but I've tried a LOT of places and I'd have to say that northern California is pretty darn nice. You can be whoever or whatever you want, there's a place for every variation in human personality, occupation and aspiration. Climate is temperate, too. Of course, as with the Pacific Northwest, not all locations afford you good job opportunities or affordability, but California generally is an economic powerhouse right now.

andre1969

Mr_Shiftright said:

There's no paradise but I've tried a LOT of places and I'd have to say that northern California is pretty darn nice. You can be whoever or whatever you want, there's a place for every variation in human personality, occupation and aspiration. Climate is temperate, too. Of course, as with the Pacific Northwest, not all locations afford you good job opportunities or affordability, but California generally is an economic powerhouse right now.

I'm actually pretty happy right here in Maryland right now, but that's mainly because it's the only place I've ever lived, so it's all I really know. To me, the taxes don't seem *too* horrendous. 6% sales tax, although they do slip on an extra tax for booze. As for property taxes, mine were around $3200 in 2015. The first year I paid the taxes on this house, I think it was around $2360 and that was in 2004. I found an old property tax receipt among some old papers awhile back, from 1961, and that year they were $200...which would be around $1600 in inflation-adjusted dollars. Considering how much more property is worth these days, and how much county government bloat we have to subsidize, I guess that's not too bad of a jump. And, the sewer came through in 1978, so we have to subsidize that as well. We also have the second worst public school system in the state of Maryland (only Baltimore City is worse), and you KNOW it ain't cheap to maintain a title like that!

I'm also thinking long term, as in retirement, so a lot of the hotter places with big job growth really wouldn't interest me. And heck, they'd probably price me out of the market! I guess I'd be fairly happy anywhere I went where I could afford a decent house with a couple of acres, and can still enjoy playing with my old cars, in an area that seems rural, but isn't too far from a major city. Right now I'm about 20 minutes from Annapolis, 15-20 from DC (although not the desirable part, so that might not be a bonus!), and about 30 from Baltimore (and these days, that could be a plus or a minus!). I also like having four seasons, although I've noticed that the older I get, the less I like winter.