Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

gsemike

texases said:

Somebody could use some help:
http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/41903/buick/regal/project-car-help#latest

Where do you start? I wonder how presentable the car is to start?

Mr_Shiftright

2013 McLaren MP4-12C
15K miles
Pearl White Metallic/ Blk
Retail Value: $175K

totaled by ins co
spun out and hit a curb with
both ends (suspension damage)

Left rear quarter panel cracked
Left door air bag deployed
Cannot get started

Can be purchased for about $80K.

toomanyfumes

Odd that it won't start. My buddy's a good welder, if I bring over a case of beer, we can fix that suspension right up.

stever

Don't forget the Big Hammer.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, just bend those little tubes back into place.

I was just stuck by how fragile a $175K car seems to be. Apparently the insurance company wants no part of structural repairs.

fintail

These won't end up like McLaren F1s eiither.

Mr_Shiftright

It'll probably have to go back to McLaren for a rebuild but then who is going to buy a supercar with a salvage title? I know from doing appraisal work on damaged modern Ferraris that you can't give them away.

fintail

In the long run, not much money might be saved. And I think in 20 years, this will be more of a Ferrari 348 than a McLaren F1

Mr_Shiftright

How many of these toys do they make a year anyway?

fintail

I'm not sure, but I don't think they are exactly like Enzos or Veyrons. MP4-12c was about 250K when new, I believe, so run of the mill supercar money.

Mr_Shiftright

I think production so far must be roughly sorta kinda around 4,000 units. Way too many for any modern classic status.

fintail

I suspect that's no lower than some higher line AMG or M cars, which aren't exactly investments.

fintail

Out for a drive on a sunny summer Sunday, running as fine as always. No issues at all other than a couple random sputters that people who know the cars will be familiar with - MFI running rich due to me driving gently. Can't ask for more. The car goes in for its yearly service in a week - I gave the shop a budget of $500-ish, and said they can do all they want up to around that level. I think the front brakes might be getting old, shocks clunk now and then, and sometimes think the stance is a little off, esp on the drivers side rear - maybe springs are worn, For my budget, I'll only get to cure one of those.

Mr_Shiftright

Hotter spark plugs--go up a step.

fintail

I didn't think of that. That or just keep it revved more. I already shift for myself a lot, to keep it more lively. It has always seemed at home between 45-60 mph or so, when it kind of revs into a sweet spot - I suspect around 3000 rpm. The current plugs aren't too old, as they were replaced after the cold start solenoid incident flooded them out.

Mr_Shiftright

You have the injected engine, right? You have to rev them up. They can handle it.

fintail

Yep, I am fortunate. Redline on that car must be at 5500 or more (no tach on sedans), it doesn't seem to mind it. It sometimes upshifts too soon to keep the revs up, so I shift manually a lot. I wonder if the linkage can be reinforced with something unbreakable, as it did break while in motion once, thankfully in a forward gear, so I could drive it to be fixed.

Mr_Shiftright

I think you have little marks on your speedo, don't you, for shift points?

fintail

Yep, same speedo for manual or automatic, which mine is. I think it is set up for economy (it has no problem pulling off 20 mpg in faster driving, which is respectable for something that age).

sda

fintail said:

Yep, same speedo for manual or automatic, which mine is. I think it is set up for economy (it has no problem pulling off 20 mpg in faster driving, which is respectable for something that age).

I may be mistaken, but in place of a tachometer the shift points indicate the maximum that you can reach in each gear?

sda

I always liked the interior of dad's '79 Eldorado. Though this isn't a picture of his car, it is the identical interior that he had, same color and all. I thought it to be very handsome, the leather was supple, and the seats very comfortable.



http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/rMQAAOSww9VXhVcO/s-l1600.jpg

fintail

Yep that's right. I forget where they are, and I suspect the automatic shifts at different times - sooner - than the points recommend.

sda said:

fintail said:

Yep, same speedo for manual or automatic, which mine is. I think it is set up for economy (it has no problem pulling off 20 mpg in faster driving, which is respectable for something that age).

I may be mistaken, but in place of a tachometer the shift points indicate the maximum that you can reach in each gear?

fintail

The Caddy talk brings up a memory. When I was a kid, a family friend had a light/medium blue ~80 Eldo that I thought was a lovely car. She passed away a few years ago, and I mentioned it here. Another family friend, well her husband, had an odd old Caddy too - a V8-6-4 Fleetwood Brougham, I guess that's an 81 only (?). It was dark blue on dark blue, and they had it for a long time, into the late 90s. He kept it immaculate, and I remember mentioned they had few problems with it - he liked the car a lot. It was eventually traded for a Ranger 4x4, as I think he had problems with the lowness of the Caddy. Unfortunately, she just passed. which along with the ages of some of these cars, makes me feel older. She last had a late Windstar or Freestar, then stopped driving, but he had a few generations of Ranger 4x4 - I think his current one is the last model year. Good memories of her/them, and that Caddy sitting in front of their house.

gsemike

Long Island $4,000 Challenge

It's interesting to look at these cars at this price point. When I was a kid, bodies and drivetrains aged together, so when a car was used it, it looked used up. Cars can last longer now, but the bodies can really last. These cars can be really miled up, and nothing alst forever, but still really look good from a body and interior perspective.

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5682295714.html Good first car. Low miles in this range

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5681585422.html Homely, in a good way. With how old trucks are hot, I'd imagine someone will be excited

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5689113795.html Not pretty but could be useful

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5689094544.html Pretty weird by today's standards, but droptop and looks fairly clean

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5685499386.html Looks clean for a miled up truck

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5658138522.html Quite a barge, looks like a clean barge

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5685762923.html Cheap for one of these. Miles not mentioned

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5649608587.html Impala SS

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5671914110.html Looks good for this money. I guess that it's hard to get this inspected. "Will have it smogged if you buy it"

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5647230032.html Corvair Monza Convertible

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5688816470.html Miled up but looks nice.

uplanderguy

I loved '79 Eldorados when they came out, and still like them. I think that razor-edged styling reminds me of the '67-70. Nice interiors too, as you point out.

qbrozen

hell, the wheels and tires alone are probably worth the $1800 for that Ram.

Mr_Shiftright

The Ram is probably a scam. It's priced 1/3rd of what it should be, unless the side not facing the camera is destroyed.

texases

I would worry about the Northstar engine in the Caddy. And that '66 Chevy SS looks like a rust bucket.

Mr_Shiftright

texases said:

I would worry about the Northstar engine in the Caddy. And that '66 Chevy SS looks like a rust bucket.

Chevy is junk. $500 bucks.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's one I found today. It's a '32 Buick Series 60 Phaeton 4D---very rare car, only 79 made that year. It's all there but every part need a human hand on it and a check written for it. Kinda neat to see these old creatures. If restored, it's an impressive automobile.

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy

I'm guessing that is a "you can't get there from here $$ wise" situation.

fintail

32 Buicks are rare in general, don't know if I have ever seen one in the metal. Should that radiator shell be chrome, or is it an illusion?

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah, I think so, I mean, if you do it "right"----there's no upside. Rarity in this case is worth something but it's still not a Packard, nor a 2 door roadster, nor a V12. I'm thinkin' $50K restored.

ab348

After an investment of 6 figures, it would look something like this I suppose:

sda

Mr_Shiftright said:

Here's one I found today. It's a '32 Buick Series 60 Phaeton 4D---very rare car, only 79 made that year. It's all there but every part need a human hand on it and a check written for it. Kinda neat to see these old creatures. If restored, it's an impressive automobile.

Wonderful detail on the radiator and fenders.

gsemike

Mr_Shiftright said:

The Ram is probably a scam. It's priced 1/3rd of what it should be, unless the side not facing the camera is destroyed.

Since you mention that. 'Tags are paid. I will have it smogged if you buy it' isn't common verrnacular around here

stickguy

Sounds like California to me.

Mr_Shiftright

sda said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Here's one I found today. It's a '32 Buick Series 60 Phaeton 4D---very rare car, only 79 made that year. It's all there but every part need a human hand on it and a check written for it. Kinda neat to see these old creatures. If restored, it's an impressive automobile.

Wonderful detail on the radiator and fenders.

Yeah, I know what you mean. These old timers from the 30s are built like trucks (and handle like them) but everything on them is machined or cast--nothing cheap or plasticky, and everything rebuildable--in theory, you could keep these old machines running forever using the craftsman's skills.

Mr_Shiftright

ab348 said:

After an investment of 6 figures, it would look something like this I suppose:

That's a lovely car. Probably it could move right along with that big Straight-8 motor. I hope someone preserves the one I found, as I doubt there could be more than 5 or so of them left from that year. However, you have to really be in love to spend $125,000 or so to have a $60,000 car when you're finished.

But hey, people buy these new $300,000 luxury cars and take a $60,000 hit the first year on depreciation. Doesn't seem to bother them.

texases

Given how much one can spend on fixing up a car, I bet it'd be even more than $125k. That recent Fantomworks had a guy spend $140k on his '39 Plymouth business coupe, nothing special.

Mr_Shiftright

It depends a lot on where you are in the country. If we estimate maybe 1500 man hours (or more) to restore a car, there's a big difference between paying $75/hour in Indiana and $150/hr in San Francisco.

In California, $30K wouldn't be unusual for show quality paintwork, for instance.

If this were my car, I'd just buy some tires, make it safe and reliable mechanically, and just drive it and show it as is. This particular car is very original.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

If this were my car, I'd just buy some tires, make it safe and reliable mechanically, and just drive it and show it as is. This particular car is very original.

That may not be a bad strategy. Pick away at things over time.

It looks like someone painted the rad shell and vent doors on the hood. Those are apparently plated underneath. Would be interesting to see the condition under the paint.

Do you expect this car will be on the market any time soon?

Mr_Shiftright

yeah, it needs to go away to a new home. It's on a remote cattle ranch just north of San Francisco. It's going to be tricky getting it out of there. I'd probably use a pickup truck to haul it up the steep dirt road to a place where a larger truck can grab it. Might have to drag it on some flat tires.

isellhondas

It would look great in Sausalito!

Mr_Shiftright

I bet all the ladies would want a ride! Rather nasty weather in Sausalito for an open car though. Better up here in Sonoma.

I'm thinkin' the right buyer might pay $8K--$10K for it, and a crazy, wine-fueled buyer at a glitzy auction which has whipped the audience into hysteria might pay $20K for the allure of a real "barn find" (actual barn if that helps).

isellhondas

I watch some of the boozed up bidders at these televised auctions and I have to wonder how much Buyer's Remorse there is after they come out of the either.

Mr_Shiftright

auctions are emotional buys for most people. They differ markedly from private dealer auctions.

stever

1974 MGB - $5400 (craigslist)

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm....suspiciously low price. I wonder what's up with that? Should be at least $8500 if it's halfway decent. Steve go check it out. Maybe you can flip it for a quick $3K.