Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

stever

Ah, bet you're right. The phone number resolves to someone in Roswell NM (although the ad says Las Cruces). I seem to get a lot of spam phone calls from Roswell, and the name associated with the phone number doesn't show up in any of my usual search tools.

Besides, would you trust Demi Moore? - she's from Roswell too. That town is out of this world.

Here's a 1977 rubber bumper one for sale here - it's $14k.

gsemike

Diesel Fintail

http://newyork.craigslist.org/brk/cto/5673817446.html

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah well good luck with that asking price. Car looks lumpy outside and dirty inside.

I always liked that winning and friendly phrase that insures a sale: "Don't waste my time!"

texases

Mr_Shiftright said:

Yeah well good luck with that asking price. Car looks lumpy outside and dirty inside.

I always liked that winning and friendly phrase that insures a sale: "Don't waste my time!"

"Seeking $6500 firm no other offers"

There, I fixed it!

Mr_Shiftright

That'll work.

fintail

Seller sounds kinda jerky. He's not selling a gullwing here. I assume by the ad he means it needs paint, as I hope that's not the result of new paint. I like the color, and it doesn't look too rusty for a fintail in the northeast, but I see a little. I've done my research as the seller suggests, and if someone offers $4500, take it and walk away smiling from ear to ear. Too bad it's not an automatic, that would be fun.

Mr_Shiftright

You're generous.

fintail

That's assuming it runs and drives beautifully, and has no mechanical needs. And that none of the rust is structural. And adjusted up a little for NY metro prices.

Mr_Shiftright

That's often a good assumption, but for cars of this type you could put a brand new engine in it and not raise the value $100. I just saw an immaculate low miles 1982 220D sell for $7500. It's all about the cosmetics on these old MBs. Nothing looks worse, in my mind, than a shabby MB.

fintail

There's only so much we can see in the pic, I am thinking glass half full. It's not like someone in NY would misrepresent a 50+ year old car, right?

1982 220D? Might want to check that one again - the only W123 220D was made in the 70s, and was not sold in this market. That price sounds right for a pristine but not low mileage 123.

IMO a shabby BMW or Lexus looks as bad, and a shabby Caddy looks worse.

fintail

Dropped the old car off for its yearly service and inspection on Sunday. Today I called to check the progress - not done. Apparently there's some damage to the rear brakes, likely from the incident this spring, and some part needs to be replaced (I forget what), and it's not easy to source. ETA, Wednesday, maybe. I'm already lining up projects for next year - suspension renovation, and I eventually want to have the steering wheel refinished.

Here's the car Sunday evening sitting by an unusual CLK55 AMG - roof rack, and it had side window shades, I've never seen that feature one one of this vintage:

Mr_Shiftright

Oops! 1982 240D.

fintail

Automatic?

bhill2

Mr_Shiftright said:

Oops! 1982 240D.

I test drove one of those right after I moved to LA; thought it would be a fitting ride for the locale. But then I drove it. Boy, trying to merge that puppy onto the 405 would be worthy of a battle ribbon (or more likely a purple star).

andre1969

fintail said:

IMO a shabby BMW or Lexus looks as bad, and a shabby Caddy looks worse.

Back in the early 1990's, someone who worked at a local pool hall in an iffy neighborhood around here had a 1967 Sedan Deville he wanted to sell for $800. It was done up in a primer black/charcoal color, so lord-knows what sorts of body work/issues it was hiding, and the interior was a bit ratty. I drove it around the parking lot...it didn't have tags on it, so the owner said do NOT take it off the premises. Gotta admit, I felt an odd attraction to it, and the engine sounded great!

But, I passed on it...probably a wise decision, too. Plus, if I still had it by the time I got to know Lemko, I'm sure he would've given me the evil eye.

Mr_Shiftright

No the 240D was a manual transmission. Nice riding car but a dog on acceleration. It would be a very dicey car to drive onto short freeway entry ramps.

sda

One of the last model years of the Dodge Diplomat. White with red vinyl top, red interior, wire wheel covers. Saw it near Beckley, WV during my drive up to Pittsburgh. It appeared to be in very nice condition. An older couple was pulling into a restaurant at lunch time.

andre1969

sda said:

One of the last model years of the Dodge Diplomat. White with red vinyl top, red interior, wire wheel covers. Saw it near Beckley, WV during my drive up to Pittsburgh. It appeared to be in very nice condition. An older couple was pulling into a restaurant at lunch time.

Did you notice if it was the SE trim line, or a lesser model? The SE had the 5th Avenue style front-end, with the turn signals over the headlights, but a crosshair grille instead of the Chrysler's vertical theme. The lesser models had the grille that was identical to the Gran Fury, where the grille extended outward under the headlights and housed the turn signals. The difference from the Gran Fury is that the Diplomat grille was more blacked-out, whereas the Gran Fury's was greyed-out, and much lighter.

It sounds like it was dressed up a bit, so I'm wondering if it was the SE model? Most base Diplomats were sold as police cars or taxis, or if a civilian model probably just had regular hubcaps, rather then wire hubcaps.

Throughout most of the 1980's, the Diplomat was only good for around 20-30K units per year, although it seemed like they were everywhere because of the police cars and taxis. Plus, the Gran Fury looked identical, unless you knew what to look for. It usually only moved around 20-30K per year, as well.

texases

My last ride in one of those 5th Avenues was in a taxi in DC, middle of summer, A/C and the electric windows went out. Combine that with a traffic jam, NOT fun...

sda

andre1969 said:

sda said:

One of the last model years of the Dodge Diplomat. White with red vinyl top, red interior, wire wheel covers. Saw it near Beckley, WV during my drive up to Pittsburgh. It appeared to be in very nice condition. An older couple was pulling into a restaurant at lunch time.

Did you notice if it was the SE trim line, or a lesser model? The SE had the 5th Avenue style front-end, with the turn signals over the headlights, but a crosshair grille instead of the Chrysler's vertical theme. The lesser models had the grille that was identical to the Gran Fury, where the grille extended outward under the headlights and housed the turn signals. The difference from the Gran Fury is that the Diplomat grille was more blacked-out, whereas the Gran Fury's was greyed-out, and much lighter.

It sounds like it was dressed up a bit, so I'm wondering if it was the SE model? Most base Diplomats were sold as police cars or taxis, or if a civilian model probably just had regular hubcaps, rather then wire hubcaps.

Throughout most of the 1980's, the Diplomat was only good for around 20-30K units per year, although it seemed like they were everywhere because of the police cars and taxis. Plus, the Gran Fury looked identical, unless you knew what to look for. It usually only moved around 20-30K per year, as well.

What caught my attention is I haven't seen one in ages, the unusual grille upfront, and that the car looked like it could be new. It was a hot day, windows were closed, so I assume a/c was functional. Just like the pictures below.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M083c869aedf699a4354669a9fe5e505bo0&w=207&h=116&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M394cbadc4073cab13f0f06d3445386c9o0&w=281&h=190&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0

sda

It must be my day to spot late '80s Chryslers. Not in great shape, but not bad, a 1984-85 Chrysler Laser Turbo. Two-tone dark blue with silver rocker panels.

tjc78

I'd rock this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mercury-Grand-Marquis-/131895344855?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1eb5933ed7:g:OogAAOSwnQhXnqIc&item=131895344855

Guy in another forum wanted to know what it would go for. I said 5K+, just because it really is in nice shape

hpmctorque

Lasers and Daytonas are really rare now, except at car shows, maybe. They looked sharp, back in the day, and still look good, in my opinion, but they were rather crude. Of course, it would be too much to expect a car with K-car bones to be refined.

andre1969

It's been a few years since I've seen it, but there used to be a Dodge Daytona that would show up at the Mopar show in Carlisle. It would always be in the same class as my '79 5th Ave, which is, IIRC, was 1975-89 RWD stock/modified...it's basically a leftover slot for cars they don't have enough of to put in their own class. For example, Aspen/Volares would get their own class. I think the Cordoba and Magnum got their own class as well, and the '75-78 New Yorkers would be grouped with other New Yorkers, but they forget about the R- and M-body New Yorkers.

Anyway, you wouldn't think this Daytona would be in the RWD group. However, it was converted to RWD, and had a Mopar smallblock V-8 under the hood! It was pretty tastefully done, too....there's more room under the hood of those cars than you'd think, I guess.

hpmctorque

That car would be hard to categorize, given the groupings you mentioned.

I hope they made some hefty structural improvements to that RWD Daytona because the K-car underpinnings weren't very rigid.

andre1969

When I first started going to the Mopar show in Carlisle, the show was much smaller, so that '75-89 RWD class comprised a wide variety. But, as the show got bigger, some cars, notably the B-body and Aspen/Volare, got more popular, so they gave them their own class. The R-body is rare enough sometimes my 5th Avenue is the only one in the whole show, although this last year, there was an '81 St. Regis police car parked next to mine.

As for the K-car, the original models weren't all that rigid, but later models were beefed up. My uncle had an early '82 Reliant 4-door, and an '88 LeBaron turbo coupe (the one I got and then gave to my ex-wife when we split up), and the LeBaron was a LOT beefier. I think when the '84 Laser/Daytona came out, that's when the beefing up began. And then there was the '85 LeBaron GTS/Lancer, and then the '87 LeBaron coupe/convertible. And, to be fair, Camaros/Firebirds and Fox-based Mustangs weren't all that beefy, either. But yeah, I'm sure this car was beefed up. I'd imagine that to get the V-8 engine and longitudinal driveline, they might've installed the sub-frame from a Valiant/Dart? I'd imagine that a midsized or Challenger/Barracuda sub-frame might be too big, but could still be modified?

I think one of the most obscene transplants I ever saw was a 440 stuffed under the hood of a 70's Dodge Colt hardtop coupe. I was surprised that it fit as well as it did!

ab348

andre1969 said:

As for the K-car, the original models weren't all that rigid, but later models were beefed up. My uncle had an early '82 Reliant 4-door, and an '88 LeBaron turbo coupe (the one I got and then gave to my ex-wife when we split up), and the LeBaron was a LOT beefier.

When they refreshed the K-car for 1985 they advertised them as the "Super K" so I assume that is when that took place.

explorerx4

I saw a mint red Dodge Daytona in Hamburg Germany last week!

hpmctorque

ab348 said:

andre1969 said:

As for the K-car, the original models weren't all that rigid, but later models were beefed up. My uncle had an early '82 Reliant 4-door, and an '88 LeBaron turbo coupe (the one I got and then gave to my ex-wife when we split up), and the LeBaron was a LOT beefier.

When they refreshed the K-car for 1985 they advertised them as the "Super K" so I assume that is when that took place.

I don't recall the "Super" designation, but that doesn't mean you're incorrect, ab. However, are you sure that didn't apply to the introduction of fuel injection and the 2.5L engine. The styling was more rounded compared to the '81-'84, but I don't remember any mention of beefing up for the standard K-cars. Maybe "Super" referred to the larger 103" wheelbase derivatives and the later LeBarons that andre owned.

Andre, as our in house Mopar expert, maybe you can provide clarification on this.

sda

I don't know what the first generation K-car convertibles were like but the '92 LeBaron GTC convertible that I had suffered from a lot of cowl shake. When I backed out of the driveway onto the street I could watch the gap between the dash and the passenger door panel decrease by about an inch as the body flexed. I still enjoyed that car, however. It was somewhat unusual in that it was the 2.5 turbo with a 5 speed tranny, which shifted smoothly, unlike my friend's '84 Laser turbo.

hpmctorque

Nice looking convert! Chrysler did a good job on the styling of that generation vert and coupe.

How did the mechanicals on yours hold up? It's my understanding that head gaskets were a point of weakness.

berri

IIRC the Mitsubishi engines they sometimes used were actually more problem plagued than the Chrysler ones back then?

tjc78

I think the 2.6 Mitsubishi was still more reliable than the turbo motors. The non turbo 2.5 was probably the best, though slowest of the group. My Stepdad had an 83 Chrysler Eclass with the 2.6. It wasn't a bad car and fairly reliable from what I remember. He had it until around 94 or so.

uplanderguy

My wife's kid brother had an old beat-up K-bodied LeBaron sedan twenty years ago--it was old then. I want to say it was a 2.6. I was a proponent of STP in older engines then, using it in my Lark at the time. I remember attempting to pour it into that LeBaron while running. I never saw that thick-as-molasses STP hover in mid-air like it did while attempting to put it into that LeBaron!

fintail

I got the fintail back. They definitely worked on the parking brake, as it engages a lot stiffer now.

And the rear brakes essentially had to be rebuilt. I think they were last done about 20 years ago, so maybe it was time. It took a few days to get all the parts, but I guess it was easy enough to re-assemble, and the well-respected indy mechanic says it is fine now. It came in at the upper end of my budget, but still three figures and change, so I guess I should be happy. Ran sweetly on the way back to its garage. Tomorrow I will spend a few hours detailing the car.

berri

Isn't this weekend Seafair out there? Don't wash it too thoroughly or you'll cause a rainout

fintail

Funny thing, good chance of rain here Sunday - early August is statistically the driest time of year, with most dates having under 10 instances of measurable precipitation in the last 100++ years, IIRC. But it might hold off until the main festivities are over.

isellhondas

Here in the Seattle area, we have the "rainy season" and we have August.

Except it DUMPED on us a few days ago!

stever

We're in the monsoon season here. Clouds up every afternoon and every once in a while it'll sprinkle for a few minutes. Temps are averaging a good 5 to 10 degrees cooler than June, our hot month.

My neighbor down the street got a new roof last month and I noticed the other day that his old pickup project is missing. So either he found a garage for it or is getting some work done on it or ... his wife told him to get rid of it.

fintail

Summer traditionally begins here within a week after July 4th, and ends about the time school starts. The past couple of years have been hotter and drier than I remember in my youth. I think this year might be more like normal, and maybe a better chance of snow when that time comes, too/

Gave the old dear its annual waxing and interior detail, all cleaned up now. Here it is hanging out with modern styling in the garage:



Clean clean, ready for the MBCA gathering next Sunday:

berri

Hope that monster next to your Fintail doesn't do major ding action!

fintail

That's the small one too, the NX. It has barely moved in the past month, the guy who owns it doesn't seem to drive much. He's pretty careful and consistent, I don't worry about him damaging my cars. He usually backs in, which I prefer for visibility. The old car has a bit of patina, I might not even notice a new ding. That's one of the joys of an unrestored car, fewer worries about wear and tear.

sda

fintail said:

Summer traditionally begins here within a week after July 4th, and ends about the time school starts. The past couple of years have been hotter and drier than I remember in my youth. I think this year might be more like normal, and maybe a better chance of snow when that time comes, too/

Gave the old dear its annual waxing and interior detail, all cleaned up now. Here it is hanging out with modern styling in the garage:



Clean clean, ready for the MBCA gathering next Sunday:

Looks show ready!

xwesx

As my brother prepares for disposition of our Pinto, I thought I would share a couple photos. Overall, it's in nice condition (for 42 years!), less the engine block...! On the interior, the only significant issue in there is that the vinyl on the dash is coming apart where it folds under at the instrument panel. That was actually happening the last time I used it eighteen years ago, and it doesn't look like it has really changed at all since then.

fintail

Doesn't look bad at all, and I assume no rust. Some nut out there will want it. You just don't see those anymore, even here/

texases

I bet there are 302 swap kits that would make it a fun ride.

stickguy

If not rusted, throw a V8 in there, and have done fun. Or new school, a turbo 4.

xwesx

stickguy said:

If not rusted, throw a V8 in there, and have done fun. Or new school, a turbo 4.

Yeah, both great options! Unfortunately, just not a project for me any more. I agree that someone will want it. My brother already has a strong lead that might save him from putting any more effort into it. Originally, he said my father was going to have it "hauled away," and I flat told them no - someone will want it, so why throw away money? I sent my brother the title and told him to keep what he makes on it.

Oh, and no, not rusted. The rockers have a little bit of surface rust where rocks pecked away the paint, but those areas are lightly pitted at worst.

berri

I thought they were nice looking little wagons

qbrozen

Wondering if this link will work. I found this on the Hemmings app I just installed. I'm not normally a fan of these big 70s coupes, but this looks remarkably nice:

1972 Chevrolet Caprice

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/caprice/1861328.html