Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

tjc78

"The Dodge dealer said they all did that. It was a real turn off. My '84 Plymouth Horizon that I was looking to trade had the 2.2 and though it could be a little balky on a cold start, it always ran nicely once partially warmed up"

No one could get the 85 2.2 started when cold but my mother.... literally. It was a bear, but she knew just the right amount of gas to give while cranking and how to keep it running.

The 83 Eclass with the Mitsu started right up no matter how cold.

toomanyfumes

My parents had a '84 Plymouth Voyager, then a '86 Plymouth Turismo. Both had the Chrysler 2.2. They were both pretty reliable, especially the minivan, which they owned for a long time. I don't remember any cold start issues either. Man the Voyager was slow,though. They seemed better put together than the GM or Ford products from that Era. I kinda like that Caddy!

stickguy

when I was a Sr. in HS, and with my own car already, my parents sold the old Volvo I learned to drive on, and got an early Omni. White. Absolute base model. No power steering or AC. 4 speed. Had the 1.6l (VW engine I think). Not a good car. Had some engine problem (maybe oil usage) and they only had it maybe 3-4 years. Even after that, they replaced it with a new one. That I think had the better 1.7l engine, and was a better car. Might have even had cloth seats. Still a 4 speed, no AC I think.

not bad to drive, at least for the day. After a few years, they replaced it with a nice 4 door civic (probably about a 1990). Burgundy over wine red interior. 5 speed, even AC. I liked that car!

when we got married, by wife had a Horizon. That was a 2.2 automatic. Much quicker. still the best car I have ever driven in the snow.

fintail

I think my dad's Horizon might have been a 1.7. I don't know when he got it exactly, but I think it was on the road by 1981-82 or so. Manual, vinyl seats, AM radio I think (probably optional), no AC in eastern WA.

sda

Before Chrysler made the their 2.2 standard they used engines from other car companies. Unfortunately they insisted on using a carb set up instead of fuel injection. Cost savings ruled the day I guess. The 1.7 was a VW engine and the 1.6 from Simca/ Peugeot. The 2.2 that I had in my '84 Horizon 5 speed ,ps, pb,, a/c was pretty quick and economical. I traded a '79 Rabbit C with 4sp and a/c. The Rabbit was more fun to drive, but the Horizon rode better, and was more comfortable overall.

sda

Forgive me I'm at it again. Found a few pictures of my '84 Horizon and one picture of the Rabbit that I owned.

sda

And for some more fun, pictures of my '70 Cadillac DeVille convertible that I bought in '82. It was rode hard and put up wet. Originally silver, I stripped it down and painted it black. Unfortunately the only finished picture that I have is the one where it is parked up on the hill behind my parent's house. A garage picture of work in progress..dad was not pleased.

sda

I promise this is the last for a while. Repainted '76 Sunbird spring break '83. I was preparing the Sunbird for paint with my friend Sheba assisting. You can see dad's '79 Eldo diesel in the background. Sunbird upgraded 'luxury' interior, white with contrasting trim. It really looked nice, was cool in the summer but a pain to keep clean. Also a picture of the 231 V6 (105hp, 175 ft/lb torque) that powered the Sunbird. .

berri

I love big convertibles. Wish they'd bring 'em back, but I think they are lost forever now

ab348

A restored version of that Caddy convertible would not be cheap these days. With that red interior, it would have been a nice car if resprayed in silver.

stever

Fun pics @sda.

Closer to (my) home, this collector is selling off about half of his 278 odd cars in Dallas in a couple of months.

Going once, twice, classic car collection goes to auction (ruidosonews.com)

ab348

sda said:

Sunbirds like yours had really pretty interiors. My '77 LeMans coupe had the same concept: white seats and door panels with blue carpets, dash and steering wheel. That combo looked just great; I wish GM or someone else would bring it back. Pontiac must have made millions of that style steering wheel. It is identical to the one I had on my LeMans.

uplanderguy

I also miss those great GM white vinyl interiors with contrasting dash, carpeting, and seatbelts. Hell, I also miss red and blue interiors, period. Even if a manufacturer reintroduced "white" interiors, I bet we'd still get a black instrument panel, carpet, and belts.

This is the one time I think they pushed this concept too far--from a '76 Caprice Classic:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/50/e4/ac/50e4ac701e798e32d8217bf570d55dcf.jpg

I liked the sweeping look of Chevy instrument panels of that period, and the metal glovebox door seemed like a quality touch if not exactly the safest thing.

xwesx

uplanderguy said:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/50/e4/ac/50e4ac701e798e32d8217bf570d55dcf.jpg

My eyes... my eyes!!!!!

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I also miss those great GM white vinyl interiors with contrasting dash, carpeting, and seatbelts. Hell, I also miss red and blue interiors, period. Even if a manufacturer reintroduced "white" interiors, I bet we'd still get a black instrument panel, carpet, and belts.

This is the one time I think they pushed this concept too far--from a '76 Caprice Classic:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/50/e4/ac/50e4ac701e798e32d8217bf570d55dcf.jpg

I liked the sweeping look of Chevy instrument panels of that period, and the metal glovebox door seemed like a quality touch if not exactly the safest thing.

I remember several similar cars from that era with the GM white/green interior that memory tells me didn't look quite that garish. One was a Chevy Monte Carlo, while another was a brand-new '76 Firebird I saw on a dealer lot that I was absolutely in love with - medium green metallic paint, with coordinating over-the-roof tape stripes, rally wheels, and white interior with green accents. Sharp car. I seem to remember that at least for the first few model years of the '71-'76 fullsize Chevys, the dash had a lot of black on it regardless of the interior color. This one looks improved in that regard.

I think GM made most of those 2-tone interiors with either blue or red as the accent color, replacing the usual black. I don't recall seeing any with saddle or gold.

tjc78

I'd have to find a picture but I'm pretty sure the 76ish Grand Prix my dad had was that white with the green inside. I know it was that green outside and had white vinyl seats.

uplanderguy

This lime green interior with white seating and door panels was exclusive to the '76 model year. I don't remember it on anything other than full-size Chevys and Monte Carlos, although I'd bet it could be had on the Malibu Classic too. It's really too much IMHO.

In '75, the big Chevy panels started having colored instrument clusters, a huge improvement IMHO. I liked the '75 and '76 panels if they had the two extra gauges which pushed the speedometer numerals together closer. I think they were spaced out too wide when they dropped the readings from 0-120 down to 0-100.

A big Chevy of that period I always thought I could like, in a conservatively handsome way, would be a '75 Impala Sport Coupe, last of the 'four windows roll down' true two-door hardtops at Chevy. I'd upgrade to wire wheelcovers, I'd get the gauge package, and I'd get either the white vinyl 50/50 seats or the herringbone-pattern cloth.

tjc78

I'm probably wrong. I was too young to actually remember the car, but it's in many pictures when I was a kid.

Ford did the whole green interior thing in the 70s too (actually they attempted it again in the 90s on Panthers and Taurus/Sable). It isn't something I'd ever want.

sda

Ford did a lot of the jade green, which I liked at the time. They also did some yellow cream colors that didn't appeal to me, I guess it was directed to female buyers. The bright green and red tended to fade worse than blue, at least that has been my observation.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

This lime green interior with white seating and door panels was exclusive to the '76 model year. I don't remember it on anything other than full-size Chevys and Monte Carlos, although I'd bet it could be had on the Malibu Classic too. It's really too much IMHO.

Available on the Malibu also, though it doesn't look quite so garish. From the brochure:



My memory on the '76 Firebird I saw wasn't quite accurate, it seems. While you could get a white interior, the brochure makes no mention of a green accent offering that year - white with blue, black or buckskin tan seemed to be the choices.

uplanderguy

That brochure photo leans a bit dark--the instrument panels are pretty bright and garish. I remember a Monte Carlo in my hometown and the dash really is lime green.

The Malibu Classic had pretty nice seat and door trim/design back then I think.

omarman

ab348 said:

My memory on the '76 Firebird I saw wasn't quite accurate, it seems. While you could get a white interior, the brochure makes no mention of a green accent offering that year - white with blue, black or buckskin tan seemed to be the choices.

There's an interesting thread with pics called Green '76 Formula. Not my color choice but definitely something which still gets attention 40 years later!

ab348

omarman said:

There's an interesting thread with pics called Green '76 Formula. Not my color choice but definitely something which still gets attention 40 years later!

Thank you! So maybe my memory of 40 years ago isn't so bad after all. That stripe going along the front fenders and up over the roof on one of the cars pictured is exactly what I remember as well. I am pretty sure the one I saw was an Esprit, not a Formula, but the thread says those were fairly common as well then. The one I remember didn't have the snowflake wheels but the older style Pontiac Rally wheels. I think that color and that interior combo looks fabulous, would love to have one.

ETA: Holy cow! I just found one FOR SALE!!

https://myclassicgarage.com/marketplace/cars/all/Pontiac-Firebird/130299/media/1872151

Where's that guy who wanted to buy my Cutlass...

J/K but man alive, would that be a cool car. If only it had the over-the-roof stripes...

omarman

ab348 said:

ETA: Holy cow! I just found one FOR SALE!!

https://myclassicgarage.com/marketplace/cars/all/Pontiac-Firebird/130299/media/1872151

Where's that guy who wanted to buy my Cutlass... J/K but man alive, would that be a cool car. If only it had the over-the-roof stripes...

That's pretty clean 70s iron, if the pics reflect what's really there. Undercarriage looks good. Then I googled the VIN and found the same car 33 miles and $9K ago.

stever

1962 Galaxy sunliner convertible - $5000

js06gv

uplanderguy said:

I also miss those great GM white vinyl interiors with contrasting dash, carpeting, and seatbelts. Hell, I also miss red and blue interiors, period. Even if a manufacturer reintroduced "white" interiors, I bet we'd still get a black instrument panel, carpet, and belts.

This is the one time I think they pushed this concept too far--from a '76 Caprice Classic:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/50/e4/ac/50e4ac701e798e32d8217bf570d55dcf.jpg

I liked the sweeping look of Chevy instrument panels of that period, and the metal glovebox door seemed like a quality touch if not exactly the safest thing.

The '76 Caprice Classic Landau coupe we had when I was a kid had an interior identical to that one except in place of the awful green was a light blue dash that matched the silver-blue exterior. Door panel was the same too except ours had power windows (but oddly, not power locks).

ab348

omarman said:

That's pretty clean 70s iron, if the pics reflect what's really there. Undercarriage looks good. Then I googled the VIN and found the same car 33 miles and $9K ago.

Very good sleuthing! I wonder if anything has been done to it by the current owner... but surely not $9000 worth of work.

My investigation was limited to discovering that the over the roof stripes are available repro, in green no less, for a reasonable price.

fintail

Buy that Sunliner, put 30K into it, maybe have a 20K car when you are done...why not?

ab348

omarman said:

That's pretty clean 70s iron, if the pics reflect what's really there. Undercarriage looks good. Then I googled the VIN and found the same car 33 miles and $9K ago.

Well, it is now listed as sold so I guess there was a buyer who didn't Goggle the VIN like you did...

I found another '76 white/green GM, this '76 Monte Carlo. I like it too, but not as much as that Firebird.

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/curbside-classics-american/my-curbside-classic-1976-chevrolet-monte-carlo-landau-hope-you-like-green/

sda

stever said:

1962 Galaxy sunliner convertible - $5000

My first car that I bought from a friend for $100 in 1977 was a '62 Galaxie 2 dr sedan. It had the 292 V8, three on tree trans, am radio, manual steering, and brakes. It was ugly, but never failed me. It was just a Galaxie, not a 500, was blue/green, full wheel covers with whitewalls. Similar to this picture---it was plain.

http://bringatrailer.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/1962_Ford_Galaxie_TriPower_406_V8_Two_Door_Post_Sedan_405HP_For_Sale_Front_resize.jpg

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

Buy that Sunliner, put 30K into it, maybe have a 20K car when you are done...why not?

Or you could but $50K into it, and have a $35K car----see, more profit doing it my way!

uplanderguy

I'm told that AMC parts are very, very hard to obtain, generally, and I'm not a fan of AMC interiors, generally. That said, this is a most-flattering angle of a '67 Marlin IMHO. I like the solid color although the ad said it used to be two-tone. The '67 to my eyes is the best-proportioned Marlin as it's built on the Ambassador chassis instead of the Classic, as was the '65 and '66. Production sticks in my mind as 2,545 for '67 although I am going totally by memory there.

Interesting car and far rarer than the usual stuff at cruise-ins...at least around here.

I'll be curious as to the bidding.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142109004572?forcerRptr=true&item=142109004572&viewitem

ab348

I think that Marlin is one of those cars that you pretty much have to find an unmolested original in nice condition. That one is pretty tired.

uplanderguy

That's probably not real easy in a car with a production run of 2,500 or so--at least the '67. I bet I haven't seen five '67 Marlins in my 58 years. I have seen more '65 and '66 models though.

berri

Interesting Uplander that you think the Marlin looks better on the longer chassis. A lot of the history on that car complained that it was initially designed on a shorter chassis and then suddenly extended into a midsize which hurt its looks (the exact opposite of the 62 Plymouth and Dodge). I've not seen any clear pictures of the original compact prototype if that is the case. Don't know if that would have made a difference for me personally as I'm usually not all that fond of triangular window glass (or even reversed B or C pillars for that matter). However, I kind of follow your logic on the Ambassador chassis because that car was a bit of a fatty from my perspective, so lengthening the original Rambler base would slim it down a bit visually.

uplanderguy

Yes, the original auto show car was based on the American. I do still think that tiny decklid is goofy. I remember reading designer Dick Teague kidding that he was paid in Marlin trunklids for his design work that year.

http://www.marlinautoclub.com/create/Tarpon_Concept_Car.htm

steine13

Not quite a project car, but the hair on the back of my neck is standing up.
Check this out:

http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/5747797977.html

gsemike

ab348 said:

Beats a 1st-gen Bronco pushing $40K though.

I just don't get them, but they seem to be high right now

steine13 said:

Not quite a project car, but the hair on the back of my neck is standing up.
Check this out:

http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/5747797977.html

No mention of miles; 1 pic.....

Mr_Shiftright

steine13 said:

Not quite a project car, but the hair on the back of my neck is standing up.
Check this out:

http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/5747797977.html

yeah, 7 owners, 115K miles, lived in 4 states. You'd want a very thorough PPI on this baby. Price is audacious, considering. Hopefully when the clutch was replaced, so was the IMS bearing. If not, just run away.

ab348

Salvage car perhaps?

Mr_Shiftright said:

steine13 said:

Not quite a project car, but the hair on the back of my neck is standing up.
Check this out:

http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/5747797977.html

yeah, 7 owners, 115K miles, lived in 4 states. You'd want a very thorough PPI on this baby. Price is audacious, considering. Hopefully when the clutch was replaced, so was the IMS bearing. If not, just run away.

gsemike

ab348 said:

Salvage car perhaps?

Mr_Shiftright said:

steine13 said:

Not quite a project car, but the hair on the back of my neck is standing up.
Check this out:

http://lansing.craigslist.org/cto/5747797977.html

yeah, 7 owners, 115K miles, lived in 4 states. You'd want a very thorough PPI on this baby. Price is audacious, considering. Hopefully when the clutch was replaced, so was the IMS bearing. If not, just run away.

It says clean title

gsemike

Pretty interesting Camaro

http://newjersey.craigslist.org/cto/5760988602.html

V8, manual car. You wonder how it made it this far without ever getting fiddled with. Price is high, but how many like this can there be?

texases

Wish there was an engine pic on that Camaro. At least it's a manual, wouldn't be hard to swap in a 5-speed, I bet. Wonder how much rust...

Mr_Shiftright

Not salvage according to CARFAX. However, if the IMS bearing cuts loose, it becomes a salvage car immediately.

hpmctorque

uplanderguy said:

Yes, the original auto show car was based on the American. I do still think that tiny decklid is goofy. I remember reading designer Dick Teague kidding that he was paid in Marlin trunklids for his design work that year.

http://www.marlinautoclub.com/create/Tarpon_Concept_Car.htm

Different strokes for different folks, I guess, because I like the Tarpon styling better than the Marlin. I'm also influenced by the fact that since the Tarpon was a smaller American based variant, it was more of a competitor to the early Mustangs ('65-'68) and Camaros, rather than the bloated ones that came later. That also meant the Tarpon would probably have been more nimble and handled better, with more spirited performance (assuming the same engines) than the Marlin, which to me was neither fish (ouch!) nor fowl.

And, oh yes, being more compact, the Tarpon would presumably have been priced a little lower, which would have made it affordable to more new car buyers. AMC should have gone with their original concept car, in my opinion. The only counter argument I can think of is that a production Tarpon would have crowded out the Javelin, which became AMC's sportscar. On the other hand, had AMC put more marketing dollars into the Tarpon, which was in a hot-selling segment, and have offered a hot rod top-of-the-line Javelin version after a year or two, the return on investment would probably have been better than with the Marlin-Javelin duo.

Mustang, Camaro and Firebird, not to mention the porky post '68 Cougars, essentially abandoned their compact roots (except for the Mustang II, which really wasn't a good spiritual successor to the early Mustangs). They were still compact on the inside, but with bloated exterior dimensions. At least the Marlin was roomy. Ford and GM essentially abandoned a market that still existed. That left an opening for Toyota and Nissan, which they cleverly exploited. In addition, while the '73 oil embargo came out of left field, AMC would have enjoyed a windfall with the Tarpon, since one of AMC's attributes was good fuel economy.

Oh well, as the saying goes, hindsight is golden.

gsemike

texases said:

Wish there was an engine pic on that Camaro. At least it's a manual, wouldn't be hard to swap in a 5-speed, I bet. Wonder how much rust...

Would love to see better shots of the bottom of the car and the trunk. At least from the rear shot, you can see the valance and wheel well trim is intact which is a good sign

Mr_Shiftright

gsemike said:

texases said:

Wish there was an engine pic on that Camaro. At least it's a manual, wouldn't be hard to swap in a 5-speed, I bet. Wonder how much rust...

Would love to see better shots of the bottom of the car and the trunk. At least from the rear shot, you can see the valance and wheel well trim is intact which is a good sign

Seems rather pricey for a base Camaro with serious rust IMO. I'd put it below $10K if I were appraising/inspecting it for someone. On the other hand, if you're looking for a Camaro to completely tear apart and customize, then maybe the initial investment isn't as important. But it you're going for a straight restoration, you'll never come out alive on this if you pay $15K. You can buy clean "drivers" in the low $20Ks.

gsemike

Mr_Shiftright said:

gsemike said:

texases said:

Wish there was an engine pic on that Camaro. At least it's a manual, wouldn't be hard to swap in a 5-speed, I bet. Wonder how much rust...

Seems rather pricey for a base Camaro with serious rust IMO. I'd put it below $10K if I were appraising/inspecting it for someone. On the other hand, if you're looking for a Camaro to completely tear apart and customize, then maybe the initial investment isn't as important. But it you're going for a straight restoration, you'll never come out alive on this if you pay $15K. You can buy clean "drivers" in the low $20Ks.

I think that things are completely skewed in the NE. Non-pedigree Camaro's that are done can be in the 30s here. The question on this one is how much of it is good. With the body, could you get away with a basic paint job?

berri

Pony cars definitely got bigger around the late 60's/early 70's. I thought Mopar and GM handled it better than Ford; 71 wasn't pretty for them to my eyes at least.

uplanderguy

In my mind, the '67 Marlin really competed more with fastback GM full-sizes than 'pony' cars. I'm sure that when the Marlin came out, that wasn't the original intent, LOL.