Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

ab348

Years ago I found a used clock for my '68 Cutlass. It worked, but never well, and eventually would only work for a short time before stopping. A few years after getting it, I bought another one thinking I would get it converted to quartz, but the cost of that deterred me. Today I pulled that one out to take a look at it. It was good cosmetically but was missing the lamp harness, and the works seemed seized. I could only nudge the hands using the adjustment knob with great effort.

I decided to take it apart and succeeded at that. Nothing appeared to be broken inside and the contact points actually looked almost pristine. I gave it an initial spray on all the works with electrical contact cleaner. To my amazement that let the works be adjusted although it was still somewhat balky. I have a can of product here called Faderlube which is used for rheostats in stereo equipment, so I gave the works a shot of that. Now it moved smoothly. I put a few drops of some light oil where it looked like it would do some good. It was then really smooth in movement and I could see the balance wheel swinging away and hear it ticking.

I got my 12V power supply connected to it and it is running... like a clock! The points fire every minute or so and it is keeping good time so far. I figure I'll let it run for a day or so and see what happens. If it is still good I'll clean it up cosmetically, make sure the points look as good under magnification as I think they do or else file them a bit, and put it all back together before getting it into the dash. Seems like success so far!

js06gv

The light blue Caprice Landau coupe at the top of page 2 is identical to the one my parents had from '79-83, right down to the color keyed hubcaps, white strip molding and dual sport mirrors. I remember the right side mirror being remote, which must have been a big deal back then because none of the GM cars we owned afterwards had that option. If you didn't pay extra for it, you rolled down the passenger window and got fingerprints all over it to adjust!

Ours had a white vinyl interior with (IIRC) a blue dash.

sda

ab348--It is always satisfying when you are pleasantly surprised that you've been able to fix something that you were skeptical about touching. Great job! I imagine that the inner workings of the clock are the same as many GM cars. I recall the clock in our '69 Olds 98 and '72 Cutlass needing constant adjustment. They were supposed to be self correcting, but would always gain or lose time over a relatively short period of time. Mom was always fussing that the clock could not be trusted and was always having to adjust the time.

On a similar theme, I fixed the spin/stop blade on my Toro lawn mower this weekend. The lawn mower has been fairly trouble free until last year when I spent about 1/2 of the cost of a new one to repair the self propel mechanism. When the blade started to stall my wife said junk it and buy new, enough already. Since I was prepared to do year end maintenance, oil change, blade sharpening, etc. I thought I'd give it a try. After removing the blade, there is a cover over the stop/spin clutch. I found a piece of junk in there. Removed it, cleaned as much as I could access, put back together. It works perfectly.

fintail

Caught a break in the rain, took the old beauty out for a drive. Started right up and ran 'sweet as a nut' as the British would say - but the fuel pump sounded kind of weird when the car was cold. Maybe because cooler weather is coming back. It seemed to quiet down once the car was warm. Still haven't figured out the mystery hose - I thought it was a windshield washer piece, but that doesn't appear to be it. However, the hose is identical to the washer hose. Off to ask the experts again. Got a thumbs up from a guy in a new mini, had the car checked out by kids in a Mustang, and the most amusing one - middle aged woman standing outside with her probably 30 something son, she smiled and pointed at the car, and was telling him something - fun how old cars can please people so easily.

Here's the car looking sharp, set off by a newly paved parking lot on a crisp early fall day:

berri

It is nice that you use that Fintail as a driver

ab348

Decided to swap the newly refurbished clock into the Cutlass to replace the old one. I had installed that one maybe 20 years ago and had forgotten how much of a pain the job is. It is held in with 2 screws which are located at about 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock on the sides of the case. Trouble is that one of them is buried just above the heater controls while the other is about an inch from the speedometer case.

The factory 8-track player also impedes access so after about 30 minutes of so of trying to even see the screws much less get a hand on them I decided to remove it. That part of the job was only slightly painful and took maybe 20 minutes. I discovered I could see the 2 screws through gaps between the underside of the dash and the steering column. But you could only use 1 hand to remove them and after much trial and error found that the only tool that would work was a tiny 1/4" box end wrench. Not much swing possible, maybe an inch or so at a time. Finally after standing on my head under the dash for an hour or so I got them out.

As the saying goes, installation is the reverse of removal except that one of the screws not only secures the clock but also holds a ground wire for the lamps and a ground strap for the clock power. Trying to get that right while looking thru a tiny gap in the bottom of the dash and also getting it to find the screw hole in the case using one hand was great fun and I can't tell you how many attempts it took but eventually I hit paydirt much to my amazement. Figure it took about 2 1/2 hours all told and I still have to reinstall the 8-track tomorrow. What fun. Hope it's not something I have to do again any time soon.

sda

ab348 said:

Decided to swap the newly refurbished clock into the Cutlass to replace the old one. I had installed that one maybe 20 years ago and had forgotten how much of a pain the job is. It is held in with 2 screws which are located at about 4 o'clock and 8 o'clock on the sides of the case. Trouble is that one of them is buried just above the heater controls while the other is about an inch from the speedometer case.

The factory 8-track player also impedes access so after about 30 minutes of so of trying to even see the screws much less get a hand on them I decided to remove it. That part of the job was only slightly painful and took maybe 20 minutes. I discovered I could see the 2 screws through gaps between the underside of the dash and the steering column. But you could only use 1 hand to remove them and after much trial and error found that the only tool that would work was a tiny 1/4" box end wrench. Not much swing possible, maybe an inch or so at a time. Finally after standing on my head under the dash for an hour or so I got them out.

As the saying goes, installation is the reverse of removal except that one of the screws not only secures the clock but also holds a ground wire for the lamps and a ground strap for the clock power. Trying to get that right while looking thru a tiny gap in the bottom of the dash and also getting it to find the screw hole in the case using one hand was great fun and I can't tell you how many attempts it took but eventually I hit paydirt much to my amazement. Figure it took about 2 1/2 hours all told and I still have to reinstall the 8-track tomorrow. What fun. Hope it's not something I have to do again any time soon.

Whew! Patience and persistence paid off! Hope you didn't get cut, lots of sharp edges behind the dash. I've learned the hard way.

fintail

I've seen maybe 2 fintails with working clocks - common issue on these cars. I've thought of having mine rebuilt, but so far it is correct twice a day. At least it is accessible, not in a gauge cluster. If I am going to go down that road, I think I want to have the steering wheel refinished first.

Mr_Shiftright

Just keeping doing it and in a few days you'll cut your time down to 1/2 hr

texases

This is one reason @ab348 will probably have one of the only working clocks in all of North America!

qbrozen

Just watched Fast N Loud where they finished a high-end build of a '49 chevy pickup and sold it for $150k!! What?!? I can't believe that is even possible. Last I remember, even Chip Foose and Boyd Coddington trucks were only 1/3 of that. Am I out of touch or is this a weird reality TV fever issue?

berri

Reality TV = BS

Michaell

berri said:

Reality TV = BS

Just a different type of entertainment.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Just watched Fast N Loud where they finished a high-end build of a '49 chevy pickup and sold it for $150k!! What?!? I can't believe that is even possible. Last I remember, even Chip Foose and Boyd Coddington trucks were only 1/3 of that. Am I out of touch or is this a weird reality TV fever issue?

You can sell something like a Dodge Charger or Challenger Pro Tourer for that, with pro-built 400 cid Hemi engine, fuel injection, modern subframe, suspension, brakes, deluxe custom interior, 5 speed tremec, glorious paintjob, quality alloy wheels, lots of billet work, etc etc...you could get 150K for that--of course you'd spend more than that unless you did it all yourself. But for a pickup truck? I really doubt it possible.

qbrozen

Everything you mention is pretty much what they did to that truck... but it is still a truck.

Engine was a ZZ5 backed by a built 700r4, so about $7000-$7500 there. Whole new frame, airbag suspension, etc. Everything was new except the cab, basically. Not even sure why the heck they needed to buy a complete truck to start with. I suppose that allows you to register it as a '49, though.

Mr_Shiftright

Exactly--it's still a truck. Price is probably BS but there is plenty of funny money out there, so who knows? You can buy some pretty awesome machinery for $150K, so I'm not seeing the allure here. A truck. It's a truck.

fintail

150K - could get a driver quality ponton cabrio, maybe even a driver quality 280SE low grille cabrio, inflated price 190SL, Adenauer cabrio, a whole lineup of concours fintails, etc.

Mr_Shiftright

Yeah but who wants an Adenauer? What a lump!

fintail

I'd take an Adenauer cabrio, especially a late series car.

Mr_Shiftright

Get a Buick Electra and be happy.

fintail

High class stately cruising:



I like the functional landau bars too. Last of the prewar influence. Not going to be sporty, but that isn't always the point.

hpmctorque

fintail said:

I'd take an Adenauer cabrio, especially a late series car.

Are you sure, considering the maintenance and repair costs?

ab348

fintail said:

Not going to be sporty, but that isn't always the point.

True. Some cars are designed to facilitate sleeping at the wheel.

Mr_Shiftright

For what the car would cost to buy, and the cost of parts and service on an Adenauer, and considering the absolutely underwhelming nature of the experience of driving such a car, I would personally spend my money elsewhere.

200 inches long
4300 pounds
138 HP
drum brakes
0-60 in 17 sec.

Compared to a fintail, it's a lump. The typical fintail might have similar HP, 1500 lbs less weight, and front disk brakes.

fintail

I compare those cars to a RR Cloud - can't be any less fun than one of those. It's only going to be driven 1K miles per year anyway, what could go wrong other than that BW automatic which I have read is quirky.

For the cars I listed, I would rather have a ponton cabrio or the 280SE, but an Adenauer would knock their socks off at your local MBCA event.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

I compare those cars to a RR Cloud - can't be any less fun than one of those. It's only going to be driven 1K miles per year anyway, what could go wrong other than that BW automatic which I have read is quirky.

For the cars I listed, I would rather have a ponton cabrio or the 280SE, but an Adenauer would knock their socks off at your local MBCA event.

Well the Adenauer cabriolet is quite rare. It's best bought as a trailer queen.

fintail

I definitely wouldn't want to take one on a modern interstate.

For 150K I could also assemble a nice little MB collection - pristine fintail, maybe a nice W111 coupe, maybe a semi-exotic 6.3, an early AMG car, and still have quite a bit left over for other cars.

Mr_Shiftright

Much better choices.

fintail

150K can go a long way. Pick up those MBs, maybe a 60 Ford wagon, perhaps a vintage Japanese car or two, it'd be a cool collection. All for the price of an overdone truck rod.

qbrozen

Even more shocking to me is the $200k someone paid for a 2008 Viper at the Vegas Barrett Jackson this past weekend. In comparison, a Shelby Series 1 got only $110k.

berri

Fin, IIRC there is a Japanese car museum in Torrance, or somewhere around there in the LA area.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Even more shocking to me is the $200k someone paid for a 2008 Viper at the Vegas Barrett Jackson this past weekend. In comparison, a Shelby Series 1 got only $110k.

I give up. Why did someone pay $200K for a $60,000 car?

fintail

Mr_Shiftright said:

I give up. Why did someone pay $200K for a $60,000 car?

Affluent greybeard types. Ego. Booze.

uplanderguy

Here's a shocker from last week's Barrett-Jackson...I like Studebakers, but it's largely non-authentic although nicely done--$46,200 for a '61 Studebaker Champ pickup, six-cylinder:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1961-STUDEBAKER-CHAMP-PICKUP-198059

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Even more shocking to me is the $200k someone paid for a 2008 Viper at the Vegas Barrett Jackson this past weekend. In comparison, a Shelby Series 1 got only $110k.

I give up. Why did someone pay $200K for a $60,000 car?

I don't know. It was one of a series of 50  Hertz Vipers, but so what? And, no, it was not a charity car.

ab348

That's crazy. I was parked next to one as nice or nicer than that this year at a car show - it had the Stude V-8 instead of the 6 - and no way would the owner have thought it was worth that kind of cash.

fintail

Most expensive Champ ever? Were they using wide whites like that in 61?

uplanderguy

Has to be! There were still wide whites on the '61's, just not THAT wide. Studebaker never built a Champ with chrome bumpers either, or pinstriping.

Here's a '61 brochure photo with whitewalls. This is the old double-walled bed. Just a personal thing, but I never liked how in '61 only they moved the bright molding above the crease on the front fenders--they did that on the Lark that year too. They brought it back to the normal place for '62.

http://www.oldcarbrochures.org/var/albums/NA/Studebaker/1961 Studebaker/1961-Studebaker-Champ-Trucks-Specs/1961 Studebaker Champ Trucks Specs-01.jpg?m=1378820323

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

Here's a shocker from last week's Barrett-Jackson...I like Studebakers, but it's largely non-authentic although nicely done--$46,200 for a '61 Studebaker Champ pickup, six-cylinder:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1961-STUDEBAKER-CHAMP-PICKUP-198059

That truck was from the Tammy Allen collection---she kinda well-known and runs a museum as well, so maybe the provenance pushed the car up in value. I'd say if the buyer tried to sell it privately tomorrow he'd be lucky to get around $30K for it. So figure $5K went to Barrett Jackson, and $10K went to wine, beer and bright lights.

xwesx

Mr_Shiftright said:

uplanderguy said:

Here's a shocker from last week's Barrett-Jackson...I like Studebakers, but it's largely non-authentic although nicely done--$46,200 for a '61 Studebaker Champ pickup, six-cylinder:

http://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/1961-STUDEBAKER-CHAMP-PICKUP-198059

That truck was from the Tammy Allen collection---she kinda well-known and runs a museum as well, so maybe the provenance pushed the car up in value. I'd say if the buyer tried to sell it privately tomorrow he'd be lucky to get around $30K for it. So figure $5K went to Barrett Jackson, and $10K went to wine, beer and bright lights.

I cringe looking at that engine photo. An orange Fram filter, mounted on top; that can't be good for the engine.

texases

Now that I give that Champ engine compartment a second look, doesn't the wiring look messy? With a mis-matched connection, and wires dangling? Shouldn't they be secured to the firewall?

Is that a bypass oil filter?

Mr_Shiftright

Well the truck probably hasn't gone 10 miles in the last 5 years.

omarman

The friendly passenger in that Champ reminds me of the hitchhiker looking for a ride with Inger Stevens.

uplanderguy

That is the one episode that I remembered the most over the years. I finally saw it again a couple years back and the production quality made me smile some (geography that looks absolutely nothing like where she was supposed to be)--but when she looks in the mirror and that guy is in the back seat, I about....well, you know!

stever

Meh, I got to 200k on my last van with a lot of orange Frams. I think this one has a SuperTech on it (probably made by Fram).

ab348

stever said:

Meh, I got to 200k on my last van with a lot of orange Frams. I think this one has a SuperTech on it (probably made by Fram).

Interesting how easy it is to destroy a brand reputation. I remember in the mid to late '60s when I started reading car magazines how there were articles about the importance of oil filters, and they almost always talked about how Fram was superior to most others. Then in the '70s Fram did a bunch of TV advertising that helped reinforce that - the famous "you can pay me now, or pay me later" ads with the garage man. I believed that Fram was the best choice.

Of course then in the '80s and '90s you began to see stuff about how cheaply made they were internally and how they weren't as good as either (a) they used to be or (b) they claimed to be. It really can't be that hard to make a good oil filter compared to making a chintzy one, so that was all about cost-cutting. And it really damaged their brand.

stever

And how often have you heard about people blowing an engine because of a bad filter?

The last van needed a new distributor as it hit 200k but it was the AC dying that caused us to sell it. Bet that Nissan engine is still running strong for the kid that got it. And in a mere 8 years, it'll be a classic.

texases

Yeah, the Fram bashing is BS. 

xwesx

stever said:

And how often have you heard about people blowing an engine because of a bad filter?

The last van needed a new distributor as it hit 200k but it was the AC dying that caused us to sell it. Bet that Nissan engine is still running strong for the kid that got it. And in a mere 8years, it'll be a classic.

I have nothing against Fram. I used to use them on all my old rigs, and all of them still run just fine. But, I also used those exact same filters, and, unless they changed them in recent years, that particular model of filter does not have a backflow preventer on it, so mounted like that it is going to be empty unless the engine is running. That means you have a pint of pumping before the oil starts flowing over the head. That is the part that is such a bad idea....

But, like Shifty noted, it probably hasn't seen any real miles, so it would take so long for the added wear to mean anything.... We'll all be using transporters by then!

ab348

uplanderguy said:

Has to be! There were still wide whites on the '61's, just not THAT wide. Studebaker never built a Champ with chrome bumpers either, or pinstriping.

Here's a '61 brochure photo with whitewalls. This is the old double-walled bed. Just a personal thing, but I never liked how in '61 only they moved the bright molding above the crease on the front fenders--they did that on the Lark that year too. They brought it back to the normal place for '62.

http://www.oldcarbrochures.org/var/albums/NA/Studebaker/1961 Studebaker/1961-Studebaker-Champ-Trucks-Specs/1961 Studebaker Champ Trucks Specs-01.jpg?m=1378820323

I found a pic on my phone of the Studie pickup I was parked next to at a show back in July. It was really, really nice, restored by an older fellow who was a Studebaker fan,. This is one of a few Studes he has: