Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

'68 isn't the most popular year for 1st generation Camaros either.

stever

Shortly after I chatted this guy up, he pumped up the rear and took off, presumably to cruise Central Ave in ABQ, aka Route 66. He had been parked in an alley over near the university campus and it was hard to get a pic without someone else walking up to admire his ride.

Mr_Shiftright

Beautiful paint job actually, even if the build is a matter of taste.

fintail

Kind of a neat 70s style southern California (east LA?) thing. That style is a bit retro now.

Mr_Shiftright

If they took the front bumper off, it would be more like a classic "gasser" with that stance.

Michaell

fintail said:

Kind of a neat 70s style southern California (east LA?) thing. That style is a bit retro now.

Nah, most of southern and central California embraced that look. There were a few car clubs in my home town, one of which was female oriented.

fintail

To me it looks like it could be a background car in a Cheech and Chong movie

fintail

Had the fintail out today, ran as nicely as ever, and I had a couple people come up to me and ask me about it when it was parked. I am sometimes amazed at the attention it receives.

I was doing a little cleaning under the hood, and found what I call a "mystery hose". Coming from the firewall, driver's side, lower elevation than the brake booster. It has a small diameter, and isn't connected to anything - but I don't know if it should be. I have noticed it before, but never noticed it wasn't connected. I have a theory that it is an air intake for the foot operated pump for the wash/wipe feature, but I am not sure.

berri

Uh Oh - might be a tumor. Better sell it

fintail

I hope the car isn't growing appendages, keeping the rust at bay is enough.

Someone suggested it could be the oil pressure sensor hose - I don't recall the gauge reading oddly, and I keep an eye on it. I probably won't get to the car again for at least a week, I'll check that out first.

stever

Usually I associate those mystery hoses with some kind of vent; seems like those are mostly around the transmission or other drivetrain bits though.

fintail

Someone else suggested that if it was an oil pressure line, the engine would now be messy. It isn't. The way it hooks into the firewall is unique. The car was running and driving fine, so I suspect it isn't something completely vital.

texases

Does your ventilation system use vacuum for anything?

uplanderguy

That '67 Marlin discussed here a few days back, got exactly one bid, the minimum, and appears to have sold for $4,500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142109004572?forcerRptr=true&item=142109004572&viewitem

ab348

fintail said:

Had the fintail out today, ran as nicely as ever, and I had a couple people come up to me and ask me about it when it was parked. I am sometimes amazed at the attention it receives.

I was doing a little cleaning under the hood, and found what I call a "mystery hose". Coming from the firewall, driver's side, lower elevation than the brake booster. It has a small diameter, and isn't connected to anything - but I don't know if it should be. I have noticed it before, but never noticed it wasn't connected. I have a theory that it is an air intake for the foot operated pump for the wash/wipe feature, but I am not sure.

See if you can blow through it, or if doing that causes some effect elsewhere.

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

That '67 Marlin discussed here a few days back, got exactly one bid, the minimum, and appears to have sold for $4,500.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/142109004572?forcerRptr=true&item=142109004572&viewitem

Price seems about market correct...a somewhat rough car with very little upside.

uplanderguy

Surely a rare piece, with all visible exterior trim intact. I find the car more interesting than a lot of stuff I see on eBay. I wonder where it is ending up.

ab348

Tonight at a cruise-in was a '64 Rambler American convertible, white with red interior. I forgot to get a pic because it turned out that it is owned by an old acquaintance of mine and we spent over an hour chatting. It is beautifully restored, just pristine. Originally a Vancouver car. Those were very attractive and probably my favorite compact of that era.

Mr_Shiftright

A classic case of rare not being valuable, that one. It's a hard car to love, but you do see them at car shows now and then. You just have to not care if you never recover more than 25% of what you put into it. It would be a restoration done for sentimental reasons.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

A classic case of rare not being valuable, that one. It's a hard car to love, but you do see them at car shows now and then. You just have to not care if you never recover more than 25% of what you put into it. It would be a restoration done for sentimental reasons.

You're talking about the Marlin I presume?

My Rambler-owning friend mentioned tonight that he had seen a Marlin locally in a person's garage a while ago, same fellow has owned it since 1971 or so, hasn't been on the road since the early '90s. White over black, a '65 he thought. We agreed that a restoration would have to be done for personal/sentimental reasons because you would never get your money out of it.

Mr_Shiftright

Here are some interesting comments from WIKI:

"Vincent Geraci (who became chief of product design and product identity at Chrysler after AMC's buyout), viewed the Marlin as "an exciting program ... We took a 1965 body design and turned it into a sportier version. But enlarging the car from its original concept [the Tarpon] and raising the roof produced an adverse effect on overall appearance."
Bob Nixon (who after AMC's buyout in 1987 became Jeep's design chief at Chrysler) dismissed the project as an "ugly embarrassment" and said that the assignment to create a sporty fastback on the Classic platform was "like trying to build a Corvette on a Buick sedan body. It just doesn't work."

texases

The Marlin didn't 'make waves' in its day. I remember an Automobile Quarterly article on it, subtitled "A Fish Out of Water".

Mr_Shiftright

Sometimes unattractive cars that failed in their day later become cult favorites---but the Marlin never did.

fintail

I'll need to clean it before that, the end is pretty grimy

I'd be blowing back into the car. The end is open, but I don't know if I want that in my mouth.

ab348 said:

See if you can blow through it, or if doing that causes some effect elsewhere.

hpmctorque

Mr_Shiftright said:

Not salvage according to CARFAX. However, if the IMS bearing cuts loose, it becomes a salvage car immediately.

fintail said:

I'll need to clean it before that, the end is pretty grimy

I'd be blowing back into the car. The end is open, but I don't know if I want that in my mouth.

ab348 said:

See if you can blow through it, or if doing that causes some effect elsewhere.

To not touch it with your mouth put saran wrap or aluminum foil around it.

fintail

I just received word that it is likely the drainage tube for the cowl vent. This makes sense, as it is a plain rubber hose, doesn't appear to be for anything high pressure. Now to figure out where it should be routed - I suspect I might have knocked it loose the last time I tidied up the engine bay.

hpmctorque said:

To not touch it with your mouth put saran wrap or aluminum foil around it.

stever

Shoot, I was all ready with a new guess of a loose vacuum hose that controls one of your HVAC flaps.

uplanderguy

Personally, I probably broke even on my white Lark, a driver restoration, even with repairs farmed out over the years I had it, and made about a grand on my last Stude selling it, but I never buy a classic car worrying about investment. I buy for sentiment. I do agree, of course, that it's best to buy the best car you can up front. But that's often harder on a low-production car. I grew up thinking Chevys were about the only cars out there, but I have never bought a 'classic' Chevy nor am I very interested in doing so.

The only Marlin I'd consider is a '67 for the better-proportions (MHO only) and uber-low-production.

uplanderguy

Speaking of Marlins, a guy I've heard of who lives in Nebraska and has owned the 4-speed, red version of my old '63 Lark Daytona Skytop with R1 engine since '65 when he bought it at a Rambler dealership, said the former owner of the Lark traded it on a new '65 Marlin.

fintail

If I ever came into a pile of money, I just might have the fintail restored. It's a good 10 footer now, but has enough issues to justify it, again, if I had the money. I'd probably be in for at least 50K, and wouldn't be able to get half that out of it - but that wouldn't be the point. However, I can't justify putting 50K into it, so it will remain a pleasantly mellowed driver until I win a lottery or receive a windfall from an unknown rich great-uncle.

uplanderguy

My white Lark was rusty when I bought it. But I was so smitten with it being a later model, and the options list, I'm glad I did have it restored...to the best of my financial ability at the time. People who owned the car before me were far-more mechanically-inclined, but tended to band-aid the car.

Years later, I did wish I'd have had the restorer take it further--but he did an excellent job within my requirements up-front.

Just found this pic of it online--not a great work of photography here, but a rare open hood/open trunk pic at my hometown car show in 2009. I like how the tinted glass in all windows, is visible here.

http://s253.photobucket.com/user/newshooter44/media/DSC_0062.jpg.html

A couple Stude buddies of mine rode me about how they thought these 195-75-15 radials looked small on the car, but they were the closest to the size the car was built with (which were Firestone 500's; can't recall the size off the top of my head). I was told they were probably also the safest size to use on the old Studebaker wheel.

texases

I guess it's been mentioned, but boy does that grill look like a MB.

And the chrome looks great!

uplanderguy

Thanks. I know it's not everybody's cup o'tea. Most of that chrome was NOS. I specifically remember that the headlight/parking light surrounds were $8.95 each.

The '62 and '63's really did have a couple Mercedes 'bends', as the Eagles would say.

I think if I buy another one ever, I'll look for a '64, which is a boxier-looking car.

I've been hearing more stories lately of the tapered rear axle breaking on some guys' Studes. Guess I'd have to bite the bullet and get the flanged axle conversion that a guy in the club sells....or buy a late '65 or '66, which had flanged from the factory. Truth be told, I like South Bend Studes better than Canadian ones and would rather have the Stude V8, even though I did already own a '66 with a 283 from the factory.

ab348

Had an interesting discussion last night at the cruise-in. The fellow with the '64 Rambler American convertible also owns a beautifully restored '58 Impala 2-door hardtop, white over blue. He was saying that he recently turned down an offer of $40K for it, but if the prospective buyer had come back with $45K he would have sold it, because he believes the market for those kind of cars is about to decline as the likely buyers who would want them age and die off. He drew the analogy to the decline in value of even older models that 20-30 years ago used to being big money for the times. He figures he has about 5 more years of being able to get that kind of money for the Impala before it starts to go down the hill value-wise. Probably not far off the mark.

qbrozen

can't say I know the market, but that sounds like an awful lot of money for an Impala hardtop.

texases

I know they've become popular, but I just can't get worked up over '58 Chevys. Probably because my high school friend had a beater '58 4 door sedan with the 6. Just can't get that out of my mind...what a tank!

Mr_Shiftright

Maybe it was a 348?

If it was a 283, and it wasn't a Pebble Beach concours car, then $40K was fair enough an offer. What with inflation and cost of upkeep for 5 years, holding out for $5K more doesn't make all that much sense.

Yeah, '58 Impala prices are quite stagnant these last few years. I suspect the thrill is gone.

uplanderguy

I like the added length (and taillights!) of '58 Impalas, but I can't see one without wishing they'd left that chrome "comb" off of the rear quarter.

I'd say ab348's friend's comments are probably on-the-mark. Look at how most folks aren't interested in Model T's and A's anymore.

Where I live, our regional Packard Club just folded after many years. It makes us wonder where our Stude club will be in ten or so years. We did lean younger than those guys--but not by a ton.

The talk among us is that there'll be a number of Studes available for sale in the next ten years--if you catch my drift.

stever

If it's like everything else parents collect, the kids won't care about them at all. T-Shirts, matchbook covers, whatever. (Washington Post)

Mr_Shiftright

I think Model As and Ts will remain popular because they are cheap and the aftermarket support is YUGE....

Right now, 1946-54 cars are fading fast...but people will still buy them if they are cheap enough. "Project cars" from that era will be hit the hardest I think

uplanderguy

Back here, I couldn't tell you when I've seen a Model T or A at a cruise-in, only at a huge AACA meet like Hershey. I am beginning to see 'tuner' cars at cruise-ins.

I think it's the old, "People want what they remember from their youth" thing. That's what it's mostly been for me.

Mr_Shiftright

The A and T owners have their own huge clubs and I suspect they don't really like to mingle with cruise nights, etc.

Model As are great fun to own and there's probably still a 1/4 million of them on the road.

uplanderguy

They certainly built a gazillion of them.

A college friend's father had bought an "A" probably 20 years ago. It's a finished, nice-looking, running four-door sedan. He died a decade or so ago in his late 70's. His son-in-law has tried to sell the car, but without much luck. I don't know how hard he's really tried though. It's sitting in his large basement garage.

My brother-in-law with the '48 Studebaker Champion convertible also has a '22 Model T coupe that looks real nice, but I've known my brother-in-law for ten or so years and I've never known him to even move it. He's 74 in a couple months.

Mr_Shiftright

You have to price them properly, which does not mean "I'd like to recoup my restoration costs".

The '48 Champ convertible is fairly rare, just over 16,000 made. But not a great 2016 highway car.

ab348

I always wonder where the collector cars of the past generations are these days. I belong to a FB group that is about local pictures from the past, and occasionally they will have shots from the '60s or '70s of something where old cars of those eras are shown - Model Ts, brass era cars, etc. Those cars were here in town back then, restored, not driven regularly, but taken out for shows and special events. Now you never see them at all, even at shows. Wonder where they went? Sold and moved out of town or buried in garages?

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

Maybe it was a 348?

If it was a 283, and it wasn't a Pebble Beach concours car, then $40K was fair enough an offer.

In fairness, he did say that if the buyer were to offer $40K US he would have taken it.

Mr_Shiftright

ab348 said:

I always wonder where the collector cars of the past generations are these days. I belong to a FB group that is about local pictures from the past, and occasionally they will have shots from the '60s or '70s of something where old cars of those eras are shown - Model Ts, brass era cars, etc. Those cars were here in town back then, restored, not driven regularly, but taken out for shows and special events. Now you never see them at all, even at shows. Wonder where they went? Sold and moved out of town or buried in garages?

Yeah probably buried in garages. Model Ts and As are difficult to drive on 2016 roads---they can't go but 45-55 mph, can't stop (hardly at all) and they don't like traffic jams. Some intrepid owners fit overdrives or 2-speed rear ends and hydraulic brakes, and that makes them bearable at least.

fintail

Had the old car out today - the mystery hose doesn't seem to be an issue, I will seek advice on a MB specific forum. The car started right up as usual and ran fine, no issues. Got a few comments on the car, as usual. The proprietor of the gas station I patronize always likes to talk about it, a kid in an unusual light gold BMW E46 coupe gave me a compliment, got a wave, etc. Gratuitous shot of the car in a supermarket parking lot:

berri

Leaving a window partially open - tweaker invitation???

fintail

Less of that demographic in Bellevue, the local authorities keep them in check.