Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

sda

qbrozen said:

Wondering if this link will work. I found this on the Hemmings app I just installed. I'm not normally a fan of these big 70s coupes, but this looks remarkably nice:

1972 Chevrolet Caprice

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/chevrolet/caprice/1861328.html

It is a handsome Caprice. The interior fabric is not correct, but nicely done.

sda

xwesx said:

As my brother prepares for disposition of our Pinto, I thought I would share a couple photos. Overall, it's in nice condition (for 42 years!), less the engine block...! On the interior, the only significant issue in there is that the vinyl on the dash is coming apart where it folds under at the instrument panel. That was actually happening the last time I used it eighteen years ago, and it doesn't look like it has really changed at all since then.

It has the upgraded interior, nice. My scoutmaster had a '74 Runabout in the typical dark metallic brown and same interior. We drove it from Buckingham, Va, to Butler, Pa in '77 to the National Scout Jamboree. The speed limit was 55. He would not allow us to use the a/c nor drive over 58 mph, to maximize mpg and so we wouldn't get a speeding ticket. What a slug of a car. It was an effort to even drive at that speed. And got 23 mpg! It had the 2300 engine and automatic. My Accord runs circles around it in every way. Today's cars are great!

berri

I don't know why, but I always was a fan of those (7172)? Impala sports roof coupes. But I think that 72 caprice was pretty sharp too. When that squared off Caprice coupe first came out in 66 I think, I didn't think it was all that great looking at the time, but I think the 72 lines pull it off much better.

stickguy

that Chevy is a serious barge.

uplanderguy

That '72 Caprice has the right seat pattern, but wrong material as pointed out above. I can't get the interior pics to enlarge. I recall '72 Chevys having an olive-green-like interior; the small interior pics don't even look like that. Someone added the pinstriping, and it also has the '78-79 Impala full wheelcovers. The '72 Caprice had a nice-looking concentric-ring wheelcover standard.

ab348

The pics of the seats show that someone went to the trouble of ordering 2 shades of the wrong green material and had the seats sewn in a coordinating pattern. I think the door panels were also redone using some of that material as an accent insert. I never understand why people do that when the correct material is likely still available if you know where to go. Those early '70s wheelcovers would be a must for me also, though I much prefer the '71 Chevy to the '72 so this one is not all that attractive to me.

qbrozen

I really don't think originality is going to affect the value of such a vehicle. I like how it looks. Seems the ad expired, though.

sda

uplanderguy said:

That '72 Caprice has the right seat pattern, but wrong material as pointed out above. I can't get the interior pics to enlarge. I recall '72 Chevys having an olive-green-like interior; the small interior pics don't even look like that. Someone added the pinstriping, and it also has the '78-79 Impala full wheelcovers. The '72 Caprice had a nice-looking concentric-ring wheelcover standard.

This would have been what it looked like originally.
https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=OIP.M1259940023493b2d35e0f6bf4675e5d0o0&w=300&h=225&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0&r=0

uplanderguy

I think people who know what they are looking at, will always pay more for authenticity/originality. But most people don't know what they are looking at.

A peeve of mine (not on that Chevy) is when somebody installs a nameplate or emblem inches, or more, off from where it was supposed to go. Easy to get right; very difficult to correct later. I know people who roll their eyes at me for that, but I roll my eyes at those too lazy to measure to get it right, LOL!

When I took my Lark to the restorer, it was lacking the individual "LARK" letters on the front (replacement) fenders. I told him that was a pet peeve of mine and I didn't want them 1/2 an inch too high or too low, etc. Luckily, he owned two original '63's himself so had a template to use. He installed them perfectly on my car.

BTW, I remember the '72 brochure with that elegant gray color Caprice cloth interior--first year I can remember a gray interior, and one of the only gray interiors I think looks great! They also offered the same design in all-nylon, which wore like iron.

xwesx

sda said:

It has the upgraded interior, nice. My scoutmaster had a '74 Runabout in the typical dark metallic brown and same interior. We drove it from Buckingham, Va, to Butler, Pa in '77 to the National Scout Jamboree. The speed limit was 55. He would not allow us to use the a/c nor drive over 58 mph, to maximize mpg and so we wouldn't get a speeding ticket. What a slug of a car. It was an effort to even drive at that speed. And got 23 mpg! It had the 2300 engine and automatic. My Accord runs circles around it in every way. Today's cars are great!

This was definitely *not* a fast car. But, I didn't have any issues driving it at highway speeds, nor did it feel particularly gutless. Fuel usage (I hesitate to call it "economy") was right in the range you noted, which seemed great to me at the time, since my van ('69 E100 w/ 302) and pickup ('69 C20 w/ 307) returned about half of that (or less!).

But, I only put a few hundred miles on it in the two-three weeks it ran. My mother had owned it for about a decade prior to giving it to my brother and me in 1998. For at least half of that time, it sat in her field with its distributor removed. She said she had to replace the distributor years prior, removed the old one, and then could not get the new one in. So, she just plunked it down on top of the engine, closed the hood, and left it.

I didn't have any trouble installing a new distributor, plugs, wires, and rebuilding the carburetor. It fired right up and ran great, but I was still nervous about the engine sitting there open to the elements (internally due to the distributor being removed) for years. I told my brother that we needed to put at least five hundred miles on it before I would declare it reliable (for distance driving). He ignored that advice and insisted on taking it to college with him (McMinnville, OR, from the Pendleton area), which was about 250 miles away or so. He made it approximately two hundred miles before throwing a rod and cracking the block (e.g., white smoke out the tailpipe, etc.).

I drove my dad's pickup halfway across the state with a car dolly to tow it home on a chilly January day. My dad said I was crazy and should just leave it where it lay. I dunno; he was probably right, but I really wanted to drop my spare 302 into it.

sda

xwesx said:

sda said:

It has the upgraded interior, nice. My scoutmaster had a '74 Runabout in the typical dark metallic brown and same interior. We drove it from Buckingham, Va, to Butler, Pa in '77 to the National Scout Jamboree. The speed limit was 55. He would not allow us to use the a/c nor drive over 58 mph, to maximize mpg and so we wouldn't get a speeding ticket. What a slug of a car. It was an effort to even drive at that speed. And got 23 mpg! It had the 2300 engine and automatic. My Accord runs circles around it in every way. Today's cars are great!

This was definitely *not* a fast car. But, I didn't have any issues driving it at highway speeds, nor did it feel particularly gutless. Fuel usage (I hesitate to call it "economy") was right in the range you noted, which seemed great to me at the time, since my van ('69 E100 w/ 302) and pickup ('69 C20 w/ 307) returned about half of that (or less!).

But, I only put a few hundred miles on it in the two-three weeks it ran. My mother had owned it for about a decade prior to giving it to my brother and me in 1998. For at least half of that time, it sat in her field with its distributor removed. She said she had to replace the distributor years prior, removed the old one, and then could not get the new one in. So, she just plunked it down on top of the engine, closed the hood, and left it.

I didn't have any trouble installing a new distributor, plugs, wires, and rebuilding the carburetor. It fired right up and ran great, but I was still nervous about the engine sitting there open to the elements (internally due to the distributor being removed) for years. I told my brother that we needed to put at least five hundred miles on it before I would declare it reliable (for distance driving). He ignored that advice and insisted on taking it to college with him (McMinnville, OR, from the Pendleton area), which was about 250 miles away or so. He made it approximately two hundred miles before throwing a rod and cracking the block (e.g., white smoke out the tailpipe, etc.).

I drove my dad's pickup halfway across the state with a car dolly to tow it home on a chilly January day. My dad said I was crazy and should just leave it where it lay. I dunno; he was probably right, but I really wanted to drop my spare 302 into it.

On fairly level road the car did fine. It was driving through the mountains near Wytheville, Va and into WV where the Pinto struggled. Funny story: At the Jamboree in Butler, Pa. the area that they had us park was a backfilled mining field. It poured down rain and cars became quickly stuck. A group of Boy Scouts, with my Scoutmaster and me in the car, picked the Pinto up by the front and rear bumpers and carried us to the street!

ab348

uplanderguy said:

BTW, I remember the '72 brochure with that elegant gray color Caprice cloth interior--first year I can remember a gray interior, and one of the only gray interiors I think looks great! They also offered the same design in all-nylon, which wore like iron.

I remember around that same time, Ford offered what the auto writers called a "panty cloth" finely knit nylon upholstery on the LTD Brougham in a very pale gray, almost silverish, with a handsome stitiching pattern too. I loved those interiors.

stever

Okay, 'splain this:

Why do people keep posting notes on my car offering to buy it?

It's a 2003 Chevy Cavalier.

explorerx4

@Stever,
Barrett-Jackson

Mr_Shiftright

Somebody stashed contraband in the trunk while the owner wasn't looking and now wants it back?

The only things I can think of are a) someone wants a Cavalier with the new 2003 "facelift"; b) it has the optional dealer-installed supercharger kit.

explorerx4

Pricey but Perrty.
hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5727185407.html

ab348

explorerx4 said:

Pricey but Perrty.
hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5727185407.html

Sure is. Those were really nice cars. That price doesn't seem too out of whack though I wish there were more pictures. .

fintail

Maybe if it was a higher model it would be more exciting. I like those translucent panel steering wheels.

Mr_Shiftright

fintail said:

Maybe if it was a higher model it would be more exciting. I like those translucent panel steering wheels.

Yes, if it were a Bonneville it would be priced higher, and if it were a Bonneville Tri-Power, considerably higher.

Asking price seems about right for a clean driver Catalina. It would have to be nice, but not show for that money.

uplanderguy

I like the Bonneville's trim better, and that it was available with buckets and console, but after all these years, I just don't like the Bonneville's extra length, in the rear. I'm too used to trimmer proportions and long-hood/short-deck styling apparently. Those Bonnevilles are short-hood, long-deck! I don't think I could back out of my driveway without scraping.

uplanderguy

Here's what I'm talking about. This is a '62 Star Chief, which shares the longer wheelbase and length with the Bonneville (Catalina and Grand Prix were shorter):

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/09-08-2012-020.jpg

andre1969

I think I'm just the opposite, preferring the longer length of the Star Chief/Executive and the Bonneville. I think my '67 Catalina looks okay, at something like 215" on a 121" wheelbase, but there have been a few times I've been parked next to a '67 Bonneville at car shows, and they're around 223" on a 124" wb, and they make my car look downright stubby!

By 1967 though, the cars were getting fatter looking, so maybe in my eye, the extra length helps tone down the beefier proportions?

There was a couple years in there where the Catalina was downsized for a bit. For 1961 it was on a 119" wb, same as a Chevy. For '62-64 it was 120", only an inch longer. I believe it was 1965 they went to a 121" wb, 1969 they went to 122", and then 124" for 1971-76. I've seen some sources list 123.4" for 1976, though, but I can't imagine GM doing anything to these cars in their final year, that would alter the wheelbase...just doesn't seem worth the hassle.

uplanderguy

I always thought it was pretty amazing that the Ventura Custom option on the Catalina, and the Executive, had identical interior trim and exterior standard ornamentation (Ventura in '66 had standard skirts though), the only real difference being wheelbase length.

uplanderguy

I think, too, that by '67 the styling was more flowing and less 'three box'. Somewhere over the years I remember seeing a photo of a '62 Bonneville straight on from the side, and the rear overhang just slapped me in the face.

uplanderguy

Which reminds me--ever see a 'short deck' Cadillac? Made from '61-63 but rarely seen, even then. I can remember seeing one 'Park Avenue' model when I was a kid, in my hometown. I actually like it on the '63; less so on the earlier ones.

stickguy

Googled that. Odd looking for sure. Can't post pic though on this device.

sda

uplanderguy said:

Which reminds me--ever see a 'short deck' Cadillac? Made from '61-63 but rarely seen, even then. I can remember seeing one 'Park Avenue' model when I was a kid, in my hometown. I actually like it on the '63; less so on the earlier ones.

I find it curious that the Park Avenue model name became a top of the line model for Buick and no longer associated with Cadillac.

fintail

Maybe the short deck made it easier to park on Park Avenue?

uplanderguy

I've seen pics of a really nice '63 Park Avenue in a dark maroon on some site of some kind.

The production numbers I saw online for the short-decks are crazy-low and I always appreciate that, even when it doesn't translate into value.

I've not seen this written, but I have to believe these were brought out in response to a newly-downsized 1961 Lincoln Continental. Bottom line: Cadillac buyers were not interested.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I've seen pics of a really nice '63 Park Avenue in a dark maroon on some site of some kind.

The production numbers I saw online for the short-decks are crazy-low and I always appreciate that, even when it doesn't translate into value.

I've not seen this written, but I have to believe these were brought out in response to a newly-downsized 1961 Lincoln Continental. Bottom line: Cadillac buyers were not interested.

They do look a bit strange. I imagine in the context of the times they were even more jarring.

explorerx4

It's pretty hot here in CT, 90's. Drove the Mustang today. A bit later I went back in the garage and noticed some fluid underneath towards the front.
It's a radiator leak. Probably buy some stop leak and put off the real fix until next spring.

berri

Wasn't the Cadillac Fleetwood Sixties Special series a bit short decked? I like the looks of those back then quite a bit.

uplanderguy

I'm not aware of that about the Sixty Specials, berri. I know they were on a longer wheelbase than 'regular' Cadillacs; hence the "...special".

I was always a fan of Cadillac Fleetwoods. For one thing, in our town, one almost never saw them, and I always loved how for the longest time they didn't have that strip running right down the middle of the side, but had the wide rocker trim and the individual "FLEETWOOD" lettering at the bottom of the front fenders. "The Cadillac of Cadillacs" in my mind.

I'm typically not a fan of '63-64 Cads, but if I had to buy one I'd look for a Park Avenue. In a '62 I'd look for a Fleetwood Sixty-Special.

berri

Got me Uplander I think I started out talking in plural, but put it on sixty instead of special (shouldn't watch sports while also doing this. getting too old for multitasking!). Sometimes I get those late 50/early 60 models confused. It seemed to me that there were Fleetwood's that had six windows and looked longer than the Special, but it may just be an optical illusion from the roofline? Then again, I vaguely recall from the Chicago auto shows in the early 60's that there was a long Cadillac that wasn't a limo. Since the limo was I believe a 75 Series back then, maybe the 60 Special is that car? You probably know. If Lemko was here, he would for sure know

bhill2

berri said:

Got me Uplander I think I started out talking in plural, but put it on sixty instead of special (shouldn't watch sports while also doing this. getting too old for multitasking!). Sometimes I get those late 50/early 60 models confused. It seemed to me that there were Fleetwood's that had six windows and looked longer than the Special, but it may just be an optical illusion from the roofline? Then again, I vaguely recall from the Chicago auto shows in the early 60's that there was a long Cadillac that wasn't a limo. Since the limo was I believe a 75 Series back then, maybe the 60 Special is that car? You probably know. If Lemko was here, he would for sure know

Oh berri, you cost me at least an hour. But you caused me to pick up one more piece of automobile trivia, so I thank you. I knew that Cadillac had at some point put out an extended deck sedan, so I hit the books. I discovered that in '58 in the Series 62 they had a standard sedan and an extended deck sedan. It looks like that one was a Sedan DeVille body trimmed as a 62. 1958 is the only year I found with that model, but I've had my 'aha' moment so I'll let someone else take it from here.

uplanderguy

Wow, I wasn't aware of short and long '58's, but I'll admit that my product knowledge of '50's cars isn't what it is for '60's cars. Interesting! I'll have to look online for a pic of a 'short' '58!

uplanderguy

Speaking of Cadillacs, I heard this at a chain auto parts store yesterday (I finally replaced the original battery in my daughter's Cobalt only because she's taking it to college 4 1/2 hrs. away in a couple weeks):

Customer: "I want some locking lug nuts for a (nineties-something) Eldorado".

Counter guy: "I'll have to look them up"

Customer: "I'll look around the store"

Counter guy to other counter guy: "Is an Eldorado a Chevy?"

I couldn't resist. I said "It's a Cadillac".

Other counter guy: "Uh, yeah, it's a Caddy...a Caddy"

Their combined ages were less than mine, but it was a slap in the face that I'm older than most people out there. I got home and asked my wife (age 51) if she knew who made an Eldorado and she knew. But a parts guy didn't. Whoa.

ab348

The parts store situation is quite sad these days. Yesterday I decided I should pick up a new gasket/sealing ring for the Q-jet filter housing for when I change the filter. I remembered seeing those in Dorman's Help! line so I visited my nearby parts store. As I was perusing the display and not seeing them a helpful young employee asked if I needed help. I explained what I was looking for, getting a blank look, before she said she could look it up on the computer. Gave her all the info about my car, she found nothing, so asked for more help herself. A young guy came over, fiddled with the computer for a while, before eventually turning the screen to face me and saying "This is all we can get", showing me a pic of a fuel tank inlet locking ring. My response was "Son, that's not even in the same ballpark."

He said, "Well, we have a bunch of loose parts out back so if you bring what you have in, we can probably match it up." Now that gives you confidence.

fintail

With something like the fintail, I wouldn't even think of going near a mainstream parts store, I know they won't have what I need. Heck, even my indy mechanic says some of his techs are a little scared of the old car. On the off times I have needed a quick simple part, the dealership can be accommodating - show up with a part number, and they will go to work. You'll pay for it, but probably nobody offers better support for old cars.

uplanderguy

The last time I drove my Lark to my hometown get-together, thrown by the former Studebaker dealer and his wife who travel back once a year from Columbus, OH, I yelled out the window to him, "Know where I can get some parts and service around here?". He smiled and said, "No idea at all!". I'm sure he was sick of trying to make a living on Studebakers in a small town right up through '66.

It's great that M-B supports parts for their old cars. Hell, I tried to buy a rubber grommet for my daughter's Cobalt and the part's already discontinued by GM. They did send me to a dealer about ten miles away who their system showed still had one.

berri

Automakers do seem to obsolete stuff quicker these days. It was nice that your dealer found where one was instead of the "it's no longer made" response.

tjc78

Most dealers will help you find the parts, sometimes there are newer numbers for the same parts as well. Back around 2002 or so I still had my 89 Town Car. I needed a wheel well moulding and wanted new rubber inserts for all the moulding on the car. There was a place in Cali that said he could get it new from Ford even when I said they told me no. Instead of him dealing with shipping it from CA he gave me part numbers (which were different but same item) and my local Ford dealer had them in a day.

explorerx4

Something isn't quite right with this ad.
hartford.craigslist.org/cto/5732016392.html

qbrozen

What? You never saw a FWD V6 pickup before? ;b

Mr_Shiftright

Price isn't bad though, once you get that engine turned the right way

fintail

MB offers great support, but some things are gone, too. I've heard breaker points can be hard to get nowadays and have been for some time, which is a reason I moved to electronic ignition. I need a couple odd chrome clips for the rear fender top chrome pieces, and I have had no luck - I even went to the MB Classic Center (the one in Germany! not the California one), and they said no dice. Luckily I was able to glue together the old broken clips.

Back around 1992 or so, I remember the clip holding the horn ring on the 66 Galaxie (in which I did a lot of my early driving) broke, and the ring fell off (I think my dad awkwardly honked at someone, and it snapped off). Strangely enough, the Ford dealer in the small town where we lived had a replacement in stock, for not more than a few dollars.

Took my project car out on the road today, to the annual MB Club regional meet. The car ran fine on the highway and didn't miss a beat, but....I think the brakes still have an issue. I could definitely smell brake linings, and the same wheel that was an issue before felt hot. No weird feelings while braking, no smoke, but I suspect something is up.

Mr_Shiftright

You might check for a compressed or dented brake line somewhere.

fintail

The lines were just replaced. Possibly air in the system? It just seems to be the one wheel, which is the same one that acted up before.

uplanderguy

The leftover NOS and also reproduction trim parts for Larks is pretty amazing. That's not why I got into them, but it was a pleasant surprise once I was. People don't believe it 'til you show them the catalog. I'd say the NOS is probably the best availability of anything domestic. Prices have gone up notably since a fellow bought the remaining factory stock and actually did a quality job of cataloguing, inventorying, and properly storing it. It used to be that you might find something at the previous place that they didn't have in their system at all. The new place, they know what they've got. I won't begrudge them raising prices as it was a ton of work moving and inventorying that stuff--decades of some stuff. A tour of their building is nothing short of amazing. It's where Studebaker used to build engines for B-17's during the war.

fintail

I wonder who at Stude decided to keep the parts. They are worthy of thanks, no doubt. Was it an inability to dispose of the material due to logistics, or some people who had loyalty to people who still owned the cars? Or a plan to keep stuff, expecting the cars would have a long service life? I think it was the latter for MB, and then when the service life was exceeded, they just kept it in warehouses anyway.