Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

berri

402 just doesn't have the same ring as 409

Mr_Shiftright

That's correct but there are a few differences between a 396 and a 402. The spark plugs are now gasketless, so the cylinder head is different (tapered holes) , and there's a different type of oil filter. (and of course a small overbore).

I'm sure that marketing an SS402 wouldn't have been a good idea.

texases

I wonder why they went to the trouble. Here's wiki's take:

"The 396-cubic-inch (6.5 L) V8 was introduced in the 1965 Corvette as the L78 option and in the Z16 Chevelle as the L37 option. It had a bore of 4.094 in (104.0 mm) and a stroke of 3.760 in (95.5 mm), and produced 375 hp (280 kW) and 410 lb·ft (560 N·m). The solid lifter version was capable of being operated in the upper 6000 rpm range, and when installed in the 1965 Corvette, was factory-rated at 425 horsepower.

Introduced in 1970, the 402-cubic-inch (6.6 L) was a 396-cubic-inch bored out by 0.030 in (0.76 mm). Despite the fact that it was 6 cubic inches (98 cc) larger, Chevrolet continued marketing it under the popular "396" label in the smaller cars while at the same time labeling it "Turbo-Jet 400" in the full-size cars. The 402 label was used in light pickup trucks."

Mr_Shiftright

Arghh...that's confusing, because one tends to confuse the Turbo Jet 400 BB with the 400 SB, which is an entirely different motor.

I suppose though if you tried to put 396 spark plugs in a 402 motor, that's not gonna work.

sda

This one surprised me, even with a 2bbl, I would have thought it (396)would be much quicker. I wonder how the 350 performed, and can't even imagine the 250 six.

https://youtu.be/WbGK7lSmP28

uplanderguy

I think I saw that one before--a 396 two-barrel if I remember correctly. One wonders why they bothered.

I do think that's a nice-looking Impala model year, and IMHO the interior bettered the same year big Pontiacs (well, Catalina anyway).

stickguy

Those poor tires. And so much wallowing. Amazing to be that slow too even with a 2bbl.

texases

13.7s 0-60...erf. And those poor tires! Wonder what mpgs were....

uplanderguy

I remember in the '70, them adding a regular-fuel two-barrel 400--it was 265 gross hp. I wonder if it was the same engine, just not called a 396 in the full-size cars anymore. I remember seeing it in the brochure, and one time walking back from downtown, our neighbor Mr. Craig, an elderly salesman at the Chevy dealer who sold Dad our new '67 Chevelle, gave me a ride home and was telling me about the regular-gas 400 in the Impala Sport Sedan demo he was driving.

EDIT: I now see that the Lindeman video 396 is 265 hp. Sure seems like this would be the same engine called, and emblemed, the "400" in '70..on the full-size cars, anyway.

Mr_Shiftright

texases said:

13.7s 0-60...erf. And those poor tires! Wonder what mpgs were....

Probably around 14 mpg no matter how you drove it. That would be on a good day.

ab348

stickguy said:

Those poor tires. And so much wallowing. Amazing to be that slow too even with a 2bbl.

I remember seeing that years ago when it was called Speedchannel. RIP. I found it interesting that Chevy would even offer a 396-2bbl. I think it was only on the full-size cars. Maybe they were trying to compete with Chrysler's 383-2bbl, which lots of people said was a strong choice.

Seeing the super-soft suspension brought back bad memories of our family's '69 Impala sport coupe. Chevy made a big deal in the brochure of talking about their "computer-selected springs" but I think there must have been a bug in the program. That '69 of ours was so wallowy that it was the only car of ours I remember from when I was growing up that could induce car-sickness, even if you were in the front seat. It was just awful. I remember reading in the magazines about how great the F41 version was, and that may be true, but the standard suspension on those was terrible, and way too soft.

gsemike

uplanderguy said:

At a minimum, that light blue '72 Chevelle SS has been painted as the front fender "SS" emblems are missing, and no sign of the holes that would've been there.

If it was claimed to be all original metal, that would be screamed in the first sentence. Those original fenders would have rotted to heck within 10 years. Price seems low for a real SS, and no claim is made either way, so I assume it's a clone/tribute/fake. Nonetheless, I like how it shows and would be happy to call it mine.

gsemike

Mr_Shiftright said:

texases said:

13.7s 0-60...erf. And those poor tires! Wonder what mpgs were....

Probably around 14 mpg no matter how you drove it. That would be on a good day.

But I love that 'precision molded grille'

omarman

gsemike said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

texases said:

13.7s 0-60...erf. And those poor tires! Wonder what mpgs were....

Probably around 14 mpg no matter how you drove it. That would be on a good day.

But I love that 'precision molded grille'

Oh yeah I liked that part too. Sounds better than 'cheap plastic.' What transmission came with that 396/265hp engine? My brother had a '69 Impala custom coupe with a 327 and powerglide automatic and that trans was the worst part of the whole package.

stickguy

Funny how much detail he went into about little things, and never mentioned the tranny.

sda

I suspect it had an economy rear axle and the Turbo Hydramatic 3 speed.

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1969_Chevrolet/1969 Chevrolet Full Size/n_1969 Chevrolet Full Size-24-25.jpg

uplanderguy

'69 was the last year for the 327.

A family that was well-known and well-liked in our small town, eight kids, had a new light blue metallic '69 Brookwood (i.e., Biscayne) wagon. I remember it had dog-dish caps but whitewalls. It was a three-speed, unusual by that time. 327.

'69 was also the last year for a two-door sedan full-size Chevy. Through the '60's, I always liked the Biscayne better than the Bel Air, as the Bel Air always had a chrome strip right smack down the side of the car no matter where any body contours were located; Biscaynes were plain down the side. Interiors were equally depressing, LOL! I always thought probably a good value that would've looked OK would've been a '69 Biscayne two -door sedan, optional five-slot Rally Wheels as on the Lindeman test car, and the optional side window 'reveal' moldings (fully-bright side window frames) which really dressed them up.

sda

My 4th grade teacher drove a '68 Bel Air 4dr, tinted glass, 307, a/c, silver gray, a real plain jane. 'Miss' G was the typical spinster teacher, crabby, and gray haired. Walking home from school one afternoon I rounded the corner and saw her car parked in our driveway. I just about panicked, why was she there, what trouble was I in? I quietly entered the house and saw her and mom sitting in the living room. 'Miss G' was selling and sold mom a full set of World Book Encyclopedias! Talk about relief! My parents had that set until about 5 years ago.

uplanderguy

A/C? La-de-freakin'-da! LOL--at least where I grew up.

Not sure how old you are, but teachers didn't make much back then, at least in western PA. My fourth-grade teacher drove a solid black '56 Bel Air sedan in the '67-68 school year. Later, she drove a six-cylinder '65 Mustang coupe as her daily car--well into the '90's.

I saw her about a decade ago and told her I remembered that Bel Air. She smiled and said "That was my first new car, out of college".

She never married, always wore clunky shoes, and I've heard is in an Alzheimer's ward back home. I'm told she'd be appalled at her hair and that they have her in sweatpants every day. She was plain and old-fashioned, but neat as a pin before her health went south.

She was a good lady, and a classmate of mine told me she recognized that my classmate needed a guidance counselor--the first teacher that made that recommendation. My classmate to this day credits her for that.

sda

I'm close in age to you I believe, 57, born in '59. I was in fourth grade in '68-69. I do remember her asking how old would we be in year 2000. Doing the math, I determined that I'd be 41. gasp. Old. Dad was only 33 then. She was tough, could be mean, but she was a devoted and good teacher. We were in New Orleans then, so a/c was fairly common. I think she made good money selling those encyclopedias.

berri

There are no teachers in my family, but I think teachers are used as scape goats these days. They are blamed for the inadequate, politically correct curriculum, for student performance from many students that underachieve because there is insufficient parental involvement. People complain about their hours, but don't realize the time spent after hours preparing and grading, or the continuing education requirements. So many of my classmates from those days talk about the difference a teacher made. Sure, there are some poor performers, but most seem pretty dedicated.

fintail

Teachers are definitely scapegoats for crappy parenting these days. I had a few irritating teachers, but almost all were dedicated and good.

Teacher cars, hmmm. I can remember quite a few...memorable highlights: 2nd grade had a 77-79 T-Bird, 3rd grade had a wedge Supra, one 5th grade had a very nice Vista Cruiser and another had a Tercel 4x4 wagon, 7th-8th grade had a beautiful black on palomino MB 300CD she traded in on a new 190E 2.6 (which seemed so modern), a high school teacher had an oddball sport model 87-88 DeVille "Touring", and no doubt I am forgetting some right now.

stickguy

I remember 2 from HS (so late 70s). A "cool" history teacher (for some reason, I remember he was in Vietnam) had an early 70s camaro. And a very nerdy English teacher a 75ish Datsun 610 2 door. Red, 5 speed. I actually drive it, because he was selling it (yeah, sounds odd now...). I remember it liked to backfire. I didn't buy it.

uplanderguy

I look back at most of my teachers and think they did a good job, in not the best circumstances.

ab348

berri said:

There are no teachers in my family, but I think teachers are used as scape goats these days. They are blamed for the inadequate, politically correct curriculum, for student performance from many students that underachieve because there is insufficient parental involvement. People complain about their hours, but don't realize the time spent after hours preparing and grading, or the continuing education requirements. So many of my classmates from those days talk about the difference a teacher made. Sure, there are some poor performers, but most seem pretty dedicated.

It may be different here, but teachers do quite well where I am, in part because they have a union that the govt has continually caved in to. The odd thing here is that while the rank and file complains about the curriculum and policies, those things are set by people who are also union members, or were until they took the jobs. The public here is very split on teachers, in part because teachers here can get automatic, substantial raises by taking extension courses online even if those courses have nothing to do with what they teach.

uplanderguy

I'm the husband and father of teachers, and both do OK money-wise; I'd say behind other professionals with similar educations, but then of course there's all that time off. There is a lot of work in the evenings and weekends though.

From stories I hear, it seems like the biggest frustration of teachers is non-involved parents, and that kids can behave as they want as they know there is no real power to discipline.

tjc78

The only teacher cars that I seem to remember are an 87 SHO and then same teacher got a 92 SHO.  My history teacher drive a powder blue 90ish New Yorker.  

uplanderguy

I remember one lady high-school teacher of mine had a new triple-blue '73 Cutlass Supreme coupe right out-of-the-box--probably first one I ever saw. I asked her about it and she said she ordered a '72 and it came in a '73.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I remember one lady high-school teacher of mine had a new triple-blue '73 Cutlass Supreme coupe right out-of-the-box--probably first one I ever saw. I asked her about it and she said she ordered a '72 and it came in a '73.

At the time she may well have been happy to get the new model, but looking back on things now,, virtually everyone would want the '72 instead.

uplanderguy

I do think the '73 was more car, with a better chassis, but for collectability, the '72 would be more appreciated for sure I think.

sda

uplanderguy said:

I do think the '73 was more car, with a better chassis, but for collectability, the '72 would be more appreciated for sure I think.

After the '69 98, mom had a '72 Cutlass Supreme in Nordic blue with a black vinyl top and blue cloth interior. It was fairly loaded with a/c, tinted glass, tilt wheel, clock, deluxe (heavy) wheel covers, am/fm stereo and separate 8 track player, cruise, 350 4bbl. She loved that car and still says it is one of her favorites. Her favorite was her '98 Aurora. Dad was disappointed when the '73s came out as it made the '72 look old. The Cutlass was as close to a new car that dad had ever purchased. It was a demo with 3k around Feb '72. It was one of those unplanned purchases. The 98 was being serviced and mom liked the look and size of the Cutlass. Next I knew mom drove it home to have dad look at it. I remember the conversation going back and forth, do we need it, can we afford it? Well, yes.

I liked the '73 Supreme coupe and was intrigued (pun intended) by the European influenced Cutlass Salon.

uplanderguy

Was your '72 a coupe or hardtop sedan?

gsemike

ab348 said:

berri said:

It may be different here, but teachers do quite well where I am, in part because they have a union that the govt has continually caved in to. The odd thing here is that while the rank and file complains about the curriculum and policies, those things are set by people who are also union members, or were until they took the jobs. The public here is very split on teachers, in part because teachers here can get automatic, substantial raises by taking extension courses online even if those courses have nothing to do with what they teach.

Same here. The guaranteed money for BS classes causes a good deal of dissatisfaction among the tax paying public. In one school nearby there is a teacher that is a travel agent for the teachers on the side. All the classes taken are related to the side biz

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I do think the '73 was more car, with a better chassis, but for collectability, the '72 would be more appreciated for sure I think.

A fellow who is now a friend of mine tells the story of how in the fall of 1971 he wanted to buy a new car. He had read some "spy" articles in the car magazines about the new GM intermediates that were supposed to be introduced for '72, and he wanted the new Cutlass. But of course the GM strike in the '71 model year and perhaps other reasons as well delayed them a year, so his new '72 Cutlass would look much like a '71. So when he went to visit the Olds dealer, he ended up buying a new Delta 88 Royale coupe instead. Nice car but not exactly what he expected.

uplanderguy

I can remember going behind our local Chevy dealer to see the new '72's before introduction day. I saw a Chevelle and the only thing I could see that was different was the grille insert and front parking lights...very minor, and I don't think they looked as good as the '71. I later found out there were new colors, many of which were an improvement though. But I couldn't remember a model year with fewer changes from the previous year.

sda

It was a hardtop sedan and was very nice looking. I remember going with dad when he was going to select his first new company car, and first new car that he had ever had. We went to the Pontiac dealer to look at the new '71 Pontiac Catalinas. They had the flow thru ventilation grilles on the trunk lid. I thought, yuck. But now I think they are kind of neat, and one year only feature. He selected a Catalina coupe in metallic brown with darker brown vinyl top and ralley wheels. It was pretty sharp for a company car.

explorerx4

1991 Chevy pickup auction sale.
Short on details, a one owner.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/video/1991-chevrolet-1500-pickup-sells-231629242.html

uplanderguy

Hardtop sedans are comparatively rare on GM intermediates of the '70-72 era. Not often seen then around where I lived, and rarely seen today. I am hard-pressed to remember if Ford offered four-door hardtop Torinos and Montegos--I think they might have in '70 or '71--??--but in '72 I think they were a pillared hardtop sedan (framless door glass) only.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

1991 Chevy pickup auction sale.
Short on details, a one owner.
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/video/1991-chevrolet-1500-pickup-sells-231629242.html

Shoot; that truck looked brand new. I couldn't gather if they mentioned the miles on it, but it didn't look like it could have had very many. Disregarding any market for such animals, I think $11K was a decent buy. I knew many people with this era truck (I think they made that one from 1989-1998, IIRC), and a few of them *still* have them. I know one gal who still DDs hers, and has since it was new in 1996. I don't even want to speculate on how many miles it has, but it was just shy of 130,000 when I last rode in it over ten years ago.

gsemike

Thanksgiving week bargains

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5888259996.html What a time machine. If you see this van rocking....

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5888186436.html He says it runs well and for the price

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5888062357.html A project with a low enough price of admision

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5888036459.html Gray market, hate the spoiler and that dumb I'm keeping my radio move

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5888033019.html Chevette

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5869580960.html Another one for more than twice as much

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5846977625.html Pimping comes cheap these days

http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/5868366371.html 62 Biscayne driver

ab348

The Eldo looks good but it has the HT4100 under the hood, so who knows how long it may run.

fintail

I pick the van. Not many like that out there anymore, and it looks to be in the nicest condition of the bunch.

SLC price is funny, one might be worth that much if it was perfect with less than zero needs, and had a radio. Spoiler is probably period correct.

Mr_Shiftright

'63 Mercury Comet --- to the wrecker

'80 Mercedes SLC ---try $5000 and it'll go away.

85 Chevette--- fair enough, but ....but....why do you want it in this condition?

'77 Chevette--well, it runs--one small step for man......

'83 Eldo---sure why not if it runs out well. Can't buy much of an "oldie" for $3500.

'62 Biscayne---cheap ticket to cruise night?

texases

So the Comet's 'frame' is good? What frame?
And that Biscayne with the missing rusted out back seat area - it'll need a pretty close look on the lift...

Mr_Shiftright

The time to "save" that Comet was maybe New Year's Eve, 1999.

stickguy

man, I forgot that the Chevette was around for so many years. Like the cockroach.

Mr_Shiftright

There was this old guy in Brooklyn who drove the worst looking beater Chevette I have ever seen. Had it for years, though, just to putt around the neighborhood. The passenger door had a shed latch on it with a lock, and he wired a remote starter in between the seats with the leads going through the firewall (punched out with a screwdriver of course). I think it finally met its end from the snow plow of a NYC sanitation truck.

qbrozen

My sister's first car was a 1980 Chevette 4-door automatic. I have never been in a slower car since. But that thing could take a beating!

Mr_Shiftright

That engine was a Brazilian built 4-banger, wasn't it?

fintail

That's a term I've seen used to describe the Chevette - "mechanical cockroach".