Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

fintail

If we are going to 1969, I'll pick a MB 300SEL 6.3 - it might be like maintaining a house, but a 140mph cruising speed and 0-60 just over 6 seconds (when you can get traction from period tires) on something that looks like this is worth noting:

Mr_Shiftright

Fabulous car and a good choice. Motor Trend clocked the 0-60 at 7 seconds, which by today's standards is minivan numbers, but back then this was Porsche 911 territory.

I had one of these in my possession (loaner) for a few months and I really enjoyed the car. Yes, I prayed nothing would break during my stewardship. $1500 water pumps and $750 distributor caps are scary. Perhaps now there are aftermarket solutions to the punishing maintenance costs of the day.

Mr_Shiftright

uplanderguy said:

Who made that truck? One might think that would be in the ad.

Studebaker made '60's military trucks of that general style, and Kaiser Corp. bought the remainder of the government contract and continued building the identical military trucks Studebaker was building, in South Bend.

Great old trucks. They were mostly automatics in the 60s. Now I guess the equivalent are all multi-fuel.

texases

ab348 said:

I prefer the '68 to the '69.

Very nice! On that ad, doesn't that 442 look like it's riding too low?

stickguy

Drawings in the brochures often took some license with reality.

gsemike

texases said:

ab348 said:

I prefer the '68 to the '69.

Very nice! On that ad, doesn't that 442 look like it's riding too low?

Me too. 69 seems like an awkward transitional styling year. The 68s have distinct on year only styling and look mean

xwesx

ab348 said:

I prefer the '68 to the '69.

Did you ever hear back from that potential buyer from a few months ago?

uplanderguy

One year only styling? The '68 and '69 are very, very close. Biggest change that comes to mind is the move from horizontal to vertical taillights. Inside, all the '69's had head restraints and the ignition on the side of the steering column.

I can remember picking up that very '69 Olds brochure at the Cleveland airport when we were dropping a family friend off. They had the new-for-'69 Delta 88 Royale on a turntable and stacks of brochures for the taking.

Just a guess, but the car in that factory photo is probably sitting on at least somewhat-smaller tires than ab348's '68.

ab348

In addition to what @uplanderguy mentioned, the '69 had a different steering wheel, different dash cosmetics, and did away with vent windows. I like the '68 styling much more.

@xwesx , yes, that was interesting. He kept pestering me and finally I agreed to meet him. He showed up and asked me what I wanted for the car. I told him I wasn't trying to sell the car, he was trying to buy it, so he had to come forward with an offer. In my head I needed to hear a number of $20K Cdn or more. He offered $15K, I said it wasn't even close. Then he opened a bag and placed an envelope he said contained $17K cash on the table. I laughed but still said no. That was his top number and if I was trying to sell it I would have jumped at it.

He called about 2 weeks after wanting to know if I changed my mind. No. Then I heard from him a few weeks after that telling me he had bought a '70 Cutlass convertible from a town about 200 miles from here. He didn't tell me what he paid but I gather it was around $20K also. Apparently quite a nice car. We had a good chat and exchanged emails so I expect we will remain in touch.

explorerx4

That brochure for the '69 442 described a 4.66:1 rear axle ratio!

ab348

I believe the 4.66:1 rear end gear was a dealer option available over the parts counter but not from the factory. I wouldn't think it would be the best car for that rear end. The 400 V-8 used in the 4-4-2 in '68 and '69 was a long-stroke design that didn't like to rev and are the least desirable engines offered in the '60s-early '70s 4-4-2 models.

Mr_Shiftright

0-60 in 6.5 seconds, 0-70 maybe never!

texases

1/4 mile was the goal. And if you put on big tires, you needed that kind of ratio even more.

Mr_Shiftright

That 4:66 might have made a 2 second or more difference in the 1/4 mile, too.

qbrozen

Curious what folks think of this. Far from original of course but maybe a nice reliable classic driver.

1966 Ford Mustang

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/mustang/1895059.html

Mr_Shiftright

Pretty clean under, paint looks like it might be a little rough, door panels may have been dyed, hard to say. I would check the floor pans for welded-in patches up in the footwells--pans look too new to be orig.

explorerx4

@qbrozen,
302 is not a 1966 motor, but does it matter?

qbrozen

Nope. If it was an original 289 car, it would be priced quite a bit higher.

I like the idea that I can upgrade the brakes, suspension, wheels, etc without hurting the value.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Pretty clean under, paint looks like it might be a little rough, door panels may have been dyed, hard to say. I would check the floor pans for welded-in patches up in the footwells--pans look too new to be orig.

Looks like new floors for sure. Would make me inspect the inner rockers closely. I'm not sure on the paint. Some areas look good, and it appears to have been disassembled for paint to some degree, but then I see a suspect spot on the rear fender and the trunk edge. And, I agree some of the interior looks iffy. I do like the color combo though. Don't see too many without black interior. 

stickguy

I like it conceptually. and for that money, can't expect 100 point perfection. The like might tail off after sitting in those buckets, and trying to wrestle it around a few corners!

berri

sda - I liked that era Cutlass with the fastback styling too!

gbrozen - the early Mustangs still look clean and modern today. Classic styling.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

I like it conceptually. and for that money, can't expect 100 point perfection. The like might tail off after sitting in those buckets, and trying to wrestle it around a few corners!

They sell power steering kits.

texases

That Mustang does look pretty good, I'd also want to add power steering. Looks like they did all the needed upgrades going from the 6 to the V8, at least, and there's no (visible) rust.

qbrozen

My wife likes it, too. Even sent me a text this morning saying that's the one I should get since it looks like all the hard work is done and I don't have spare time to be cutting into rusty cars anymore.

The ideal car for me is one with style, a back seat, and where the body and chassis have zero needs. I don't mind messing with sprucing up an interior or electrical work. And I'd even want to get something that calls for some upgrading. Maybe not an engine and trans, although I'm not totally against that for the right price, but doing things like adding power steering, upgrading brakes and suspension, exhaust, carb(s), and whatnot. Making it faster and better handling, essentially. Those are projects I enjoy, and maybe my kids will like learning a thing or two. I think that is my wife's motivation. When I look at these things, she usually comments "I think Ricky would like working on that with you." He is 6, BTW.

sda

That Mustang is nice looking and I like the color combo. Every Mustang that I've been in '64-66 has been a rattle trap. Squeaks and noises as the windows and doors rattle around among other noises. Rattles and squeaks really annoy me, though I guess you could say that gives the car character. The V8 makes all the difference. A friend had a 200-6, automatic. It was a good leisurely cruiser but the sound from the 6 is no match for the V8.

stickguy

go for it. Probably about as cheap as you can go and not get a rust bucket. Plus, has the right parts (disk brakes, V8, 4 speed).

and will be much more enjoyable with some smart suspension upgrades (easy to do on one of these ox carts), and PS if you say it is easy to install (I have no clue). Even has nice tires!

oh, I would definitely upgrade the interior with at least new front seats. Something that blends well, but actually has a backrest that locks, and head rests. Maybe something out of a later Mustang, upholstered to match.

Heck, now I want it too!

ab348

That doesn't seem like a bad deal on the Mustang. As was said, a lot of the hard-to-do stuff is already there. A lot depends on how the work was done of course, and how it drives, which can only be assessed via a close in-person inspection. The undercarriage looks very clean. One thing that seems a bit odd in the pics is that the upholstered parts of the interior seem slightly yellowed or off-white while the plastic and painted parts are more of a pure white. I'm not a fan of all the Edelbrock stuff under the hood but that's just me.

ab348

The thing about '60s Mustangs is that most have been worked hacked on and reworked, often several times, so it's hard to know what you're getting. I prefer the '67/'68 generation but those can be a bit more expensive than the earlier ones. Found a couple that are around the same price that seem intriguing:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/mustang/1873794.html

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/mustang/1894211.html

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/mustang/1881496.html

This one is a bit more but I really like it:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/mustang/1853637.html


One thing that occurs to me about the '66: as an original 6-cylinder car I believe it would have had 4-lug hubs. It has 5-lug ones now so it would be good to know where those came from.

Mr_Shiftright

This is not a car you would want to buy blind.

texases

As nice as those '67 and '68 Mustangs look, I'll pass on vinyl roofs, ATs, and 2 bbls. That 4bbl/4sp is what I'd have to have. And since a 1st gen was my first car, it'd have to be one of those. I'd get real picky with a hobby car like that...

edit-as for the 6/V8 conversion, very common, and easy to find the right parts. Given the disc brakes on front it looks like it was done right, as long as the springs were changed (which, given the ride height, they were). And the ad refers to a 9" posi rear axle, so it's correct, too.

texases

This looks more like a junk yard to me:
http://jalopnik.com/this-quarry-is-filled-with-classic-cars-possibly-hidden-1789513995

Mr_Shiftright

Don't see anything there worth saving except maybe a few dash gauges. More like a Ferrous Oxide Mine than a quarry.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

The thing about '60s Mustangs is that most have been worked hacked on and reworked, often several times, so it's hard to know what you're getting. I prefer the '67/'68 generation but those can be a bit more expensive than the earlier ones. Found a couple that are around the same price that seem intriguing:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/mustang/1873794.html

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/mustang/1894211.html

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/mustang/1881496.html

This one is a bit more but I really like it:

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/ford/mustang/1853637.html


One thing that occurs to me about the '66: as an original 6-cylinder car I believe it would have had 4-lug hubs. It has 5-lug ones now so it would be good to know where those came from.

oooo... that blue on blue got my attention. I don't so much mind an automatic, personally. Makes it so my wife could take it for a spin if so inclined. Seems pretty reasonable for an original 289 car that has a few needs.

stickguy

Q, there are 2 blue on blue ones. The 2nd one, with all the trophies, looks like it is brand new inside and underneath.

and by coincidence, it is in Asheville NC. And I will be there in 2.5 weeks, assuming the town does not burn down from wildfires.

one thing I hate on that era Mustang is the AT. Not the fact it has one really (though I prefer a stick), but the shifter. It looks cheesy and chintzy to me. At least the console hides a lot of that.

If I was getting a Mustang, I think I would go with a 69 or 70 instead. Better interior.

oh yeah, I hate the 2 spoke steering wheels too. That would have to go!

xwesx

ab348 said:

@xwesx , yes, that was interesting. He kept pestering me and finally I agreed to meet him. He showed up and asked me what I wanted for the car. I told him I wasn't trying to sell the car, he was trying to buy it, so he had to come forward with an offer. In my head I needed to hear a number of $20K Cdn or more. He offered $15K, I said it wasn't even close. Then he opened a bag and placed an envelope he said contained $17K cash on the table. I laughed but still said no. That was his top number and if I was trying to sell it I would have jumped at it.

He called about 2 weeks after wanting to know if I changed my mind. No. Then I heard from him a few weeks after that telling me he had bought a '70 Cutlass convertible from a town about 200 miles from here. He didn't tell me what he paid but I gather it was around $20K also. Apparently quite a nice car. We had a good chat and exchanged emails so I expect we will remain in touch.

Wowza! At least he found something he wanted! I find it funny that he *knew* you wouldn't want to sell at the price he was going to offer you, so he tried to make it extra-tempting by going the cash route. "Look, here's $17K in cold, hard cash. Are you really going to turn that down for an old car?" Hahah!

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Q, there are 2 blue on blue ones. The 2nd one, with all the trophies, looks like it is brand new inside and underneath.

and by coincidence, it is in Asheville NC. And I will be there in 2.5 weeks, assuming the town does not burn down from wildfires.

one thing I hate on that era Mustang is the AT. Not the fact it has one really (though I prefer a stick), but the shifter. It looks cheesy and chintzy to me. At least the console hides a lot of that.

If I was getting a Mustang, I think I would go with a 69 or 70 instead. Better interior.

oh yeah, I hate the 2 spoke steering wheels too. That would have to go!

Oh, not the vinyl top one. I also dislike vinyl tops. Although I did tag one in my hemmings app because the car is so appealing otherwise.

stickguy

so, you liked the NC one. Better choice. Needs new wheels though instead of the hubbies. A nice set of Cragers would liven it up, and be period correct.

I still want an early Gen 2 Camaro. Chrome bumper. RS style. Actually, a Z 28 or clone (front and rear spoilers). That would be nice.

basically, one like this. Though a nice clone for 1/2 the price or less would be just fine. And needs a nicer steering wheel, and I don't care what is authentic.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/921850/1971-chevrolet-camaro-for-sale-in-fairmont-city-illinois-62201

qbrozen

Camaros never did anything for me. I did like my dad's '79 Z28 that he dropped a 454 into, but probably not enough I'd ever own one.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Camaros never did anything for me. I did like my dad's '79 Z28 that he dropped a 454 into, but probably not enough I'd ever own one.

I was around a couple of Camaros growing up.

First was my cousin, who had a '69 RS with a 350 and the 3-speed auto. He had it when he was 16, in 1978. He got into a whole lot of trouble with it. Not sure why it went away, but it was replaced with a Vega (!).

Second was a friend of my mom's, who bought a new '78 Camaro Berlinetta. She hated it; she much preferred older classics. I know she had myriad problems with it while under warranty.

stickguy

my first car was a 67 Camaro (got it the summer before senior year of HS) so they hold a special spot to me. I just gloss over the fact that it was a $300 rust bucket (to the extent that 1/2 the trunk floor was gone), with a 6 cylinder and powerglide. But, it was a Camaro. Replaced a few months later by something with a stick shift and more body panels (marginally, just missing outer quarter panels until my dad and I pop riveted some sheet metal on). That was my Duster.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Camaros never did anything for me. I did like my dad's '79 Z28 that he dropped a 454 into, but probably not enough I'd ever own one.

Well if you don't wear a mullet and carry a handgun in the glovebox it's probably not the car for you.

stickguy

to be fair, that demographic did not come into play until the 80's vintage Iroc Z style. IMO.

Mr_Shiftright

True enough. I think all the "B" movies in the 80s had something to do with that image. Really, the first Camaros and Mustangs were thought of (at the time, which was more sexist) as "secretary's cars". Not until they started stuffing big blocks in those cars did they develop a muscle car image---maybe 1968 or so?

Check out this early advertisement for Mustang:

Mr_Shiftright

I think the early Camaros were marketed more as a "young couples" car, or "something for everybody".

stever

My sister had a first year Firebird. She was off in college by then. Was one of the few cars she didn't wreck.

berri

My BIL worked his way through college restoring Mustangs. He once told me that the 67's were a noticeable step up from the prior models - fixed a lot of issues.

uplanderguy

Normally I'll stroll past a row of Mustangs, Camaros, or Chevelles at a show, but I'll admit my bias and say I'll stop and check out a bone-stock '67 Camaro, especially in a non-mega-popular color. It seems that more people like the '69 although I never liked the Nova instrument panel with a different top pad...the '67 and '68 Camaro had a panel somewhat like the '68 Corvette's.

There is something about the '67 and '68 Camaros that is slightly feminine in my eyes,though, but I can't put my finger on it.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

True enough. I think all the "B" movies in the 80s had something to do with that image. Really, the first Camaros and Mustangs were thought of (at the time, which was more sexist) as "secretary's cars". Not until they started stuffing big blocks in those cars did they develop a muscle car image---maybe 1968 or so?

Even in '68 most of the ads for Mustang were not concerned with performance. Instead the theme was transforming your personal image.

I remember the '68 Mustang ads really well. Back then, Ford Canada was one of the two major sponsors on Hockey Night in Canada, a Saturday night staple in Canadian households. We watched religiously and so the catchy theme for the '68 Mustang was drilled into my head. I loved it them and now. There are a lot of '68 Mustang ads available online but this one sort of captures them all. Where it ran, at 3 minutes in length, is a mystery.

https://youtu.be/EjBlsp9g6Hc

qbrozen

This one is pretty sweet. Sounds great, too.

1968 Ford Mustang

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ford/mustang/1890489.html

berri

I was a rarity, because I'm more a fan of the Gen II 70/71 Camaro. Mustang - I like the first few years and then the 69. Over at Mopar, I liked the early 70's Challenger.