Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

ab348

QB, a question: have you ever driven cars like these? I ask because I hope you don't end up disappointed. Even a well-done one will have aspects that are very "old-car" like. I'm thinking that if it was me, I would want to drive a number of them locally to get a sense of what I like and don't like before going into serious buying more.

isellhondas

berri said:

Don't forget the notorious front end issues with those Dusters

I wouldn't say the front ends on those Dusters were a big problem.

OK, you replace the lower ball joints, tie rod ends and probably the idler arm - ONCE!

I say once because the replacement parts (usually Moog) were far superior to the OEM stuff

Do it once and you're done for as long as you're going to keep the car!

texases

I wonder if my '72 Duster's ball joints had been done before I got it in '74. I drove it until '80, put 60k miles on it, no problems.

ab348

That nice green '72 Challenger Rallye just sold on BaT for $30K.

fintail

First was along Meydenbauer Bay, 2nd Medina, 3rd near Phantom Lake, 4th and 5th in Sherwood Forest/Ardmore area (not too far from Crossroads), 6th is around 116th heading towards downtown.

isellhondas said:

I didn't recognize much. Looks like Crossroads area?

explorerx4

It's possible that weber setup in the Mustang is fuel injection. The latest Ingelese catalog I could find was 2013.
I found Ford small block intake systems in the 2012 catalog.

The engine in that Buick is not a Chevy 350, doesn't really look like one.

isellhondas

texases said:

I wonder if my '72 Duster's ball joints had been done before I got it in '74. I drove it until '80, put 60k miles on it, no problems.

Those Duster ball joints weren't THAT bad! Maybe after 50,000 they were getting worn out. This was true for lots of cars in those days. Chevrolets were every bit as hard on ball joints and Pontiacs may have been the worst! They used tiny little lower ball joints. Smaller than the ones Chevy used. To replace them the proper way was to replace the whole lower control arm.

Of course a lot of perfectly good ball joints got needlessly replaced in those days. The guys would unload the joint by taking the pressure/weight off of them. Then they would take a four foot prybar and pry up on them. If there was ANY slop in them they would recommend replacement.

A lot of this had to do with the fact they just didn't know any better.

isellhondas

fintail said:

First was along Meydenbauer Bay, 2nd Medina, 3rd near Phantom Lake, 4th and 5th in Sherwood Forest/Ardmore area (not too far from Crossroads), 6th is around 116th heading towards downtown.

isellhondas said:

I didn't recognize much. Looks like Crossroads area?

Yeah, I got the 116th St. Someday we will run into each other. You should visit the XXX in Issaquah every Sunday morning now!

ab348

explorerx4 said:

The engine in that Buick is not a Chevy 350, doesn't really look like one.

That's because it's a Buick 350. Distributor is on the front of the engine.

texases

isellhondas said:

texases said:

I wonder if my '72 Duster's ball joints had been done before I got it in '74. I drove it until '80, put 60k miles on it, no problems.

Those Duster ball joints weren't THAT bad! Maybe after 50,000 they were getting worn out. This was true for lots of cars in those days. Chevrolets were every bit as hard on ball joints and Pontiacs may have been the worst! They used tiny little lower ball joints. Smaller than the ones Chevy used. To replace them the proper way was to replace the whole lower control arm.

Of course a lot of perfectly good ball joints got needlessly replaced in those days. The guys would unload the joint by taking the pressure/weight off of them. Then they would take a four foot prybar and pry up on them. If there was ANY slop in them they would recommend replacement.

A lot of this had to do with the fact they just didn't know any better.

I should have added - I put 60k miles on top of the 50k it already had, for a total of 110k with no problems. Sold it to a friend, he drove it another 20k until he totaled it with 130k. No problems outside of a water pump, a radiator (because I added a/c) and a starter, the whole time (8 years). I thought the Duster was a sturdy, simple car, way better than my prior '65 Mustang. Course, that's not saying much!

qbrozen

ab348 said:

QB, a question: have you ever driven cars like these? I ask because I hope you don't end up disappointed. Even a well-done one will have aspects that are very "old-car" like. I'm thinking that if it was me, I would want to drive a number of them locally to get a sense of what I like and don't like before going into serious buying more.

Not exactly like these, but I have been around long enough to have some experience in just about every "type" of car. I know these are all quite crude in comparison to more modern cars, but I'd wager my old CJ7 would have put all of these to shame in that department. I also have fond memories of my Zephyr, which was still just a derivative of the '60s Mustang. I actually think the Buick might be even more pleasant than I imagine. My grandfather had an old car similar to that when I was a kid. I think he must have driven that for about 15 years or so from when he retired up until he could not drive anymore. I remember it was metallic brown with a brown vinyl top. Had to be a Pontiac since he worked at a Pontiac dealership. So probably a third gen Lemans.

Anyway, I get what you are saying and the thought has crossed my mind. Hell, I may not even be comfortable in one. We'll find out. Sometimes you just gotta get that bug out of your system. If I am disappointed, I'll pass it on to the next sucker and get a more modern toy.

stickguy

The Buick is probably just a super comfy cruiser mobile. With some good rumble. Big, solid, ease on down the highway. Basically kinda sorta a real modern car.

The Duster, well, that is going to be crude, uncomfortable, and probably squirrely to drive. Never mind revving really high with a 3.91 rear end (I would assume on that part). IOW, unless you are planning to go out hustling kids in the stoplight grand prix, it isn't going to be very family friendly. The Pontiac probably somewhere in the middle.

so I guess the question is, other than a cool old car, what the heck are you really looking to end up with?

sda

fintail said:

I have multiple pairs of sunglasses. Definitely more bikes on the road yesterday than I had seen in 6 months. Gotta get out and enjoy it while the getting is good

What kind of gas mileage do you get from fintail? Is it a 4 speed automatic?

qbrozen

stickguy said:

so I guess the question is, other than a cool old car, what the heck are you really looking to end up with?

That about sums it up. Ideally, it will have some get-up and go, not to mention mean sounding. Something to mess around with and add some upgrades, etc. And, of course, something I (and my boys) find attractive.

fintail

Yep, 4 speed auto, the kind without a torque converter. 15 city, maybe 20-22 highway, which is surprising with how it revs at speed. It's actually really happy between 50-65 mph.

sda said:

What kind of gas mileage do you get from fintail? Is it a 4 speed automatic?

fintail

Not many/any other blue fintails with wide whites on the road around here anymore, if you see one, it's me

I haven't been to XXX for several years. MB club had a meet there way back around 2010-2011 or so. I'll need to find a meet that looks interesting and maybe one where my old project car would be appropriate.

isellhondas said:

Yeah, I got the 116th St. Someday we will run into each other. You should visit the XXX in Issaquah every Sunday morning now!

qbrozen

I really like this one. Looks evil.
And, yes, stick, I would absolutely change that stupid steering wheel. There are a few things I'd do to the interior, actually.
http://gatewayclassiccars.com/milwaukee/1974/dodge/dart-S190.html

stickguy

Plain Jane interior, but that dash brings back memories. I had a Duster in HS, and my best friend used his families 74 or 75 Valiant, with that same dash. Good times. I got a story about that car, for another time!

and for my "get off my lawn" moment, it really needs more period correct wheels/tires, something with sidewall height that looks proportional. But I am probably fighting a losing battle here.

xwesx

stickguy said:

and for my "get off my lawn" moment, it really needs more period correct wheels/tires, something with sidewall height that looks proportional. But I am probably fighting a losing battle here.

As far as wheels go, these look pretty decent on that car, I think. Not ridiculously over-sized with rubber-band tires, but low profile enough to eek out a little better cornering performance than "original."

qbrozen

I like the wheels. That is a change I would have likely made myself.

texases

Nice Dart. I hadn't known that they dumped the Demon name because of religious protests.  Good the battering ram bumpers are gone. 

ab348

News of the day: Edd China has left Wheeler Dealers and the new season in production has replaced him with a fellow named Ant Anstead who is a mechanic/restorer who has been on other UK shows. Lots of reaction on social media, almost all of it favorable to Edd and questioning the future of the series. I posted a thank-you on Edd's FB page and got a "like" from the Tall Man himself!

I'm sure the full story will come out eventually, whether it's just him wanting to do something else, or if the producers wanted to take the show in a direction he was uncomfortable with. Certainly the last season was not a direction I liked. Interesting times.

Mr_Shiftright

Here's an interesting car:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6049595492.html

fintail

I stopped watching Wheeler Dealers with any regularity when they started the US-based material. The UK stuff is far more interesting.

stickguy

Without Edd probably won't be on much longer

qbrozen

ab348 said:

News of the day: Edd China has left Wheeler Dealers and the new season in production has replaced him with a fellow named Ant Anstead who is a mechanic/restorer who has been on other UK shows. Lots of reaction on social media, almost all of it favorable to Edd and questioning the future of the series. I posted a thank-you on Edd's FB page and got a "like" from the Tall Man himself!

I'm sure the full story will come out eventually, whether it's just him wanting to do something else, or if the producers wanted to take the show in a direction he was uncomfortable with. Certainly the last season was not a direction I liked. Interesting times.

wow. that sucks.

funny enough, I have been missing it lately. Unless new ones have stalled due to this news?? On-demand in my area had up through, I think, the electric Maserati biturbo and then they removed wheeler dealers from the on-demand menu altogether.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

Here's an interesting car:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6049595492.html

It is interesting, although a bit pricey for me.

ab348

Mr_Shiftright said:

Here's an interesting car:

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/6049595492.html

I agree that it is interesting, but I can't say I ever cared for them much. Too Valiant-like for my tastes.

ab348

Edd China posts his reasons for leaving. Can't say I blame him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IB15T1LYiY

stickguy

The way the world works these days. Cut corners on a cheap fix. Probably won't be lasting long now.

qbrozen

i wrote a reply to that youtube video. makes me sad.

Mr_Shiftright

Price is market correct but the color?.....not sure how I feel about it:

http://www.oldride.com/classic_cars/867700.html

stickguy

I like it. Car seems nice. Would like some interior shots.

Mr_Shiftright

It says the "complete interior" has been replaced, so it's probably pretty good.

ab348

That Cutlass is really nice from what I can see and read. That was a factory color in '71, and combined with the white interior it makes a great summer ride. There is one locally in those same colors and I would love to have it. I actually have it's original wheels (Olds SS1 wheels,, like a Magnum 500, as seen in the pics of this car) on my Cutlass. I bought them from the owner of the convertible when he went to body-color SSIII wheels. I would not have made that change myself.

qbrozen

I think the color is Ok. Some white stripes might help. Or that might be too much white. Tough call. 

explorerx4

It seems to me those cars had a stripe running along the top of the rear quarter also.

ab348

qbrozen said:

i wrote a reply to that youtube video. makes me sad.

I did too, and Mr. China actually responded. I'm chuffed, as he might say! So much integrity in the guy. Have to tip my cap to him.

It is kind of sad, because it seems clear Discovery is taking this into the "Fast & Loud" mode of manufactured drama and contrived situations.

qbrozen

I see your comment and his response. Nice.

i can't even find my comment anymore. Over 1600 replies in less than a day. Impressive.

on my saga: showed the boys the video of the black '74 Nova. We are all in love. They still like the blue one coming up Sat morn at Mecum, though. Tough call. I did mail my check today but I'm not sure it will get there early enough to satisfy them. Then there is the issue of arranging transport fast enough. They want the cars gone by Monday afternoon. Almost forces you to use their transport company, which wants 2.5x what several other companies have quoted me.

stickguy

ask Iluvsephia. He lives by KC I think. maybe he can pick it up and stash it in his 3 car garage for you!

qbrozen

Ok, question: am I right that this would be considered a Base '69 Skylark? Trying to assess value. A base model is only work $19k in concours condition. Which would also mean this is far less valuable than the blue duster I'm interested in.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/KM0317-277946/1969-buick-skylark/

Also, is anyone else seeing what I'm seeing on the one pic of the underside? Appears it may have some rusting issues?

stickguy

It is a replica so I assume just a base car with spoiler and stripes. I can't see rust through. Maybe a little surface stuff on the frame rail bracket piece?

ab348

The "concours condition" number is not relevant here because this car is not in that condition. It is a "nice driver" (assuming it actually drives nicely) based on what I see. Whatever value it has above that is from the replica GSX bits and modification it has had done to it. It appears to have started life as a Skylark Custom based upon the seats and door panels.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

The "concours condition" number is not relevant here because this car is not in that condition. It is a "nice driver" (assuming it actually drives nicely) based on what I see. Whatever value it has above that is from the replica GSX bits and modification it has had done to it. It appears to have started life as a Skylark Custom based upon the seats and door panels.

well of course it is not concours. My point being it is worth far less than that. About $13k is #2 condition, which this isn't even up to that standard. I may have to lower my bidding limit on this one by quite a bit. Curious what shifty thinks.

Thanks for the info. A Custom is worth a little more, but not much.

Stick, this is my area of some concern:

stickguy

I can't see that on my little iPad! I agree though to bid low. Since it isn't a real one, might not go hat high. And you don't want to be the sucker!

qbrozen

I think this may be nicer than the white one. Curious where the bidding will end.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-buick-gs-2/

isellhondas

texases said:

isellhondas said:

texases said:

I wonder if my '72 Duster's ball joints had been done before I got it in '74. I drove it until '80, put 60k miles on it, no problems.

Those Duster ball joints weren't THAT bad! Maybe after 50,000 they were getting worn out. This was true for lots of cars in those days. Chevrolets were every bit as hard on ball joints and Pontiacs may have been the worst! They used tiny little lower ball joints. Smaller than the ones Chevy used. To replace them the proper way was to replace the whole lower control arm.

Of course a lot of perfectly good ball joints got needlessly replaced in those days. The guys would unload the joint by taking the pressure/weight off of them. Then they would take a four foot prybar and pry up on them. If there was ANY slop in them they would recommend replacement.

A lot of this had to do with the fact they just didn't know any better.

I should have added - I put 60k miles on top of the 50k it already had, for a total of 110k with no problems. Sold it to a friend, he drove it another 20k until he totaled it with 130k. No problems outside of a water pump, a radiator (because I added a/c) and a starter, the whole time (8 years). I thought the Duster was a sturdy, simple car, way better than my prior '65 Mustang. Course, that's not saying much!

Nothing in that price range/category could compare to a Duster. The tough as nails slant sixes, the Torqueflights and the solid construction put them way ahead of their competition at the time. These were just good cars! Rebuild the front end once and you were good to go!

These were 150,000 mile cars (or more) at a time when most cars were pretty tired around the 80,000 mile mark!

stickguy

Nasty rusters though.

stickguy

Q, I like that one much better. Especially the interior, and looks nicer overall. I also believe in paying a little more for a lot more quality. And if you can't afford a good one, don't but a crappy one.

$14k with 3 hours to go on s not bad. Definitely makes that white one at 16k look for overpriced.

qbrozen

well, to be fair, $16k is what i initially thought on the white one. But I believe that to be wrong. Very wrong.

I'm really really leaning toward the blue Duster today. You could eat out of that engine compartment.