Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Mr_Shiftright

You're at a difficult price point. Domestic cars in the low teens are generally better than "projects" but a lot of the tedious detail work has been ignored.

Case in point---I've often seen nicely repainted cars but with rotten seals around the windshield, vent windows and side windows? Why---they are a royal pain. Or nice paint and dinged up stainless trim--to do that right you have to remove all the stainless and tap out the dents and polish everything. Lots of labor there.

Or you see nice seats and carpets but not so nice headliner and door panels---same deal--headliners and door panels can be tedious work---and dash tops, too.

In the engine bay you might see a nice clean engine but taped up and/or scattered wiring, or old upper control arm bushings.

Or, nice paint and filthy underside---cleaning and painting chassis and suspension is a big nasty job. And sometimes I see a painted frame/chassis but old, cracked bushings everywhere.

Sometimes we call them "tarted up" and sometimes, to be kinder "partial restorations" or "sympathetic restorations".

ab348

Your best bet might be to find an original and unmolested car that is still decent cosmetically. You can then pick away at things over time. With popular models in the old-car community -- GM A-bodies, Impalas, Camaro/Firebird, Ford Mustangs, Chrysler B and E-bodies -- upholstery, door panels, headliners and other soft trim are available repro, as are large amounts of body/trim parts. Buy as you need to and go from there.

qbrozen

I'm ok to pay more for the right car. I really have no limit other than my self imposed one. I just don't want to OVERPAY for anything. 

Bug problem with waiting for Mecum and BJ in the next couple of weeks is the 13% buyer premium. Then add shipping. So if you pay fair price, you wind up buried anyway.

Mr_Shiftright

Well if you get something truly "turn-key" or close to it, it's worth the 13%---one tends to dismiss the "little things" and probably you should, but if there's a long enough list of them, it can add up.

I looked at a Malibu SS for a guy recently and it was a very nice car at a fair price, but it had a few needs---broken antenna, one noisy, sticking window regulator, one loose u-joint, loose ball joint on one side, heater fan screeching, clock didn't work, gag gauge erratic, speedometer needle bouncing, no horn.

So you take that list to a shop for repair (at least in CA) and there's a $1000 bucks. Nothing major here and nothing you'd even notice if you walked past the car.

Of course, the same list on a modern car would probably be $4000 !

qbrozen

If I could find something with such a simple mechanical list, I'd be happy. 

ab348

qbrozen said:

I'm ok to pay more for the right car. I really have no limit other than my self imposed one. I just don't want to OVERPAY for anything. 

Bug problem with waiting for Mecum and BJ in the next couple of weeks is the 13% buyer premium. Then add shipping. So if you pay fair price, you wind up buried anyway.

The other big problem with those places is that from what I see you will be forced to overpay to get something good.

Mr_Shiftright

Depends who else is in the room who really wants one.

There's always a punch list of sorts with any old car.

explorerx4

@qbrozen,
So radio delete is good.

ab348

QB, here are a few possibilities from the land of rust-free cars:

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/6047969947.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/6047971988.html

This one showed up in the Phoenix listings but it says it's in St. Paul, MN. Not really original but looks like fun:
https://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/cto/6021100221.html

Bargain T-Bird!: https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/6047426476.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/6015961093.html

Don't often see these: https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/6047143685.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/6006542534.html

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/6011932080.html

Tons more there if you have time to kill.

qbrozen

Is this the Skylark you saw coming up at Mecum, shifty? It is the only one I see.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/KM0317-277946/1969-buick-skylark/

Now, a '69 Base 350 Skylark is only worth $19k for #1 concours, so logic would dictate I should be able to score a super nice one of these for mid teens, right?

stickguy

oh man, I really want that yellow Firebird sprint. I had a few (4 I think) 3 speeds on the floor 6 cylinders. Just not as nice as this one.

Yes, I have strange tastes.

qbrozen

None of those are particularly appealing to me. Still like the stangs, of course, but my son only likes the fastbacks.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

Is this the Skylark you saw coming up at Mecum, shifty? It is the only one I see.
https://www.mecum.com/lots/KM0317-277946/1969-buick-skylark/



Now, a '69 Base 350 Skylark is only worth $19k for #1 concours, so logic would dictate I should be able to score a super nice one of these for mid teens, right?

Yes I think so... a pretty nice one for $15K...a solid #2 car with a few nitpicks.

stickguy

looks nice. No hood induction snorkels though on this one. and man, I hate that steering wheel! First thing that would have to go.

ab348

qbrozen said:

None of those are particularly appealing to me. Still like the stangs, of course, but my son only likes the fastbacks.

You're tough to buy for.

Fastback Mustangs seem to go for 50%-100% more than comparable hardtops, even more than convertibles go for in a lot of cases.

stickguy

Mustangs are so popular, they just seem to go for way too much money. So many other cars that just seem like better bang for the buck.

stickguy

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/5989814361.html

berri

I owned a 71 Sebring, not one of the fast models like above. However, being young at the time I watched for them like a hawk. Never saw that white with stripes on one and don't recall it in the brochures. I wonder if it was added with the repaint?

qbrozen

stickguy said:

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/5989814361.html

Not much to go on. Engine bay looks rough. 

berri

One more thing on that 71 Road Runner. The interior doesn't look right. I recall buckets were an option usually with that crinkle cut vinyl, but I don't think any of the interiors available had a center armrest. The fake wood on the dash is real as the Road Runner was really a Satellite coupe with a Satellite Sebring Plus dash. I'm not an expert on muscle cars, but I'd check the VIN in case it is a "made from parts" version.

ab348

The seller helpfully provided a shot of the fender tag which can be easily decoded to tell everything it was built with originally.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

None of those are particularly appealing to me. Still like the stangs, of course, but my son only likes the fastbacks.

You're tough to buy for. 

Oh wait wait. I had no idea you are buying for me. In that case, I'll take any of them. ;b

qbrozen

This is nice and subtle:
http://ebay.to/2mSJRgT

ab348

berri said:

One more thing on that 71 Road Runner. The interior doesn't look right. I recall buckets were an option usually with that crinkle cut vinyl, but I don't think any of the interiors available had a center armrest. The fake wood on the dash is real as the Road Runner was really a Satellite coupe with a Satellite Sebring Plus dash. I'm not an expert on muscle cars, but I'd check the VIN in case it is a "made from parts" version.

Here is the fender tag decode:

RM23:
Plymouth Belvedere,Satellite
Medium, Road Runner
2 Door Hardtop

N1E: 383 300HP 1-4BBL 8 CYL
1971
Los Angeles, CA, USA

109349: Sequence number

E65: 383 cid 4 barrel V8 300hp
D32: Heavy Duty Automatic Transmission
GW3: Bright White Exterior Color
M6X9: Trim - Opt. Decor Group, Vinyl Bucket Seats, Black
TX9: Black Int. Door Frames
923: Build Date: September 23
178764: Order number

V1X: Full Vinyl Top, Black
U: USA Specifications
A01: Light Package
A04: Basic (Radio) Group
A87: Road Runner Decor Package
B51: Power Brakes

C21: Center Front Seat Cushion
C55: Bucket Seats
G33: LH Remote Racing Mirror
H51: Air Conditioning with Heater
J45: Hood Tie Down Pins
L31: Hood/Fender Mounted Turn Signals

M21: Roof drip rail moldings
N41: Dual Exhaust
N97: Noise Reduction Package
R11: Radio Solid State AM (2 Watts)
V21: Performance Hood Treatment

26: 26in Radiator
END: End of Sales Codes

sda

Nicely equipped. 2 watt AM radio, LOL.

explorerx4

I don't see V1X on that car but the seller does say it probably has had a repaint.

tjc78

stickguy said:

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/cto/5989814361.html

351 Cleveland and a good color. Agree with Q engine bay needs a lot of detailing.

tjc78

sda said:

Nicely equipped. 2 watt AM radio, LOL.

Back away from all that power.....

berri

Thanks ab, sure faked me out. I actually like that white color on it.

ab348

berri said:

Thanks ab, sure faked me out. I actually like that white color on it.

Actually I was surprised at how it decoded. It seems like a very desirable car. Though I'm not sure what that is in the center of the trunk lid, looks almost like a bullet hole.

berri

I'll say this; in that white color, the lines still look good. But having said that, my 71 was a POS.

isellhondas

uplanderguy said:

That's a great ad. Hard to beat Buick chrome road wheels.

I have a dumb question but just something that has bothered me.

Why do they call those Buick (and others) "Road Wheels"? I mean, where else are you going to use them?

Why not "Dirt Path Wheels" or " Freeway Wheels"?

Just seems redundant that's all....

berri

Better marketing than plain old highway tires

qbrozen

So LightStream has approved me for an unsecured loan to use at auction for 2.49%. Wow. That is a hell of a deal. They will give me the cash in bank by tomorrow or Tues, I use what I need and send the rest back to them. 

Mr_Shiftright

Awesome. If you can, try to find the owner(s) of the car you are interested in before you bid. Also, keep in mind that if a car doesn't sell, it goes to the "Post Sale Lot" where you can often negotiate a price under the reserve. Some owners don't want to haul their car back home and will cut a deal.

stickguy

Find Wayne Carrini or one of the other TV guys and see if you can get yourself on the show!

qbrozen

Thing is, I'll be an absentee bidder, so I don't think I can do either of those things

fintail

I had my old project car out on this spring-like day. The car started right up and ran fine, although I noticed a few cases where it puffed smoke more noticeably than usual when pulling away from a stop - maybe the sun was catching it, or maybe the need for some valve work is catching up with me. It'll have to get a bit worse before it gets really embarrassing, but it is on the radar. In the dictionary under "20 footer":



I also made a few videos today, as some liked this sort of thing.

First, the cold start. The car was idle for 15 days, cool morning, garage isn't heated:

https://youtu.be/jylow__Q-SI

Then some driving videos. This time camera mount now blocks the other side. I took these without music, to get engine and manual shifting/driving noises. The weird squeak that is heard in a video is the brake pedal, which has made the noise since I bought the car. There's also a little noise from the bobblehead on the dash, and an occasional sound from stuff in the console tray. The speaker captures some of the revvy little I6 noise fairly well.

https://youtu.be/YJ9zEJa21JQ

https://youtu.be/DYfhIfb-udU

https://youtu.be/oa_puKyQnxA

https://youtu.be/1-SEMbSOSLg

https://youtu.be/-QgNP6fZ5fg

One can compare with the quality of the hardwired purpose-built cam in the modern car:

https://youtu.be/T6cG2PSKv4o

berri

Did the eyes have a Dracula reaction to that apparent big yellow thing in the Seattle sky when you filmed? Better borrow these shades

fintail

I have multiple pairs of sunglasses. Definitely more bikes on the road yesterday than I had seen in 6 months. Gotta get out and enjoy it while the getting is good

qbrozen

alrighty... so I'm trying to register for Mecum. As a phone bidder, you put in the max you are willing to pay on vehicles in case you get disconnected. I'm writing in 4 lots and really trying to feel out where I'd be willing to go. Obviously, due to the fees and shipping, I'm trying to get a deal. What do you think of these? Am I way off?

$16,000 - https://www.mecum.com/lots/KM0317-277926/1965-pontiac-lemans/
$16,500 - https://www.mecum.com/lots/KM0317-277946/1969-buick-skylark/
$15,000 - https://www.mecum.com/lots/KM0317-278174/1970-plymouth-duster/
$16,500 - https://www.mecum.com/lots/KM0317-290953/1966-ford-mustang-fastback/

My reasoning on the Lemans and Stang are because they are far from original and therefore not worth all that much. Maybe I'm wrong. I'm also, of course, taking into consideration not being there and playing it safe.

Mr_Shiftright

You're way low on the Mustang. Low on the Tempest. You might be in the game on the Duster and you have a good chance on the Skylark.. ... my two cents, and I have been known to be wrong

ab348

Well, I think the Mustang will go for a lot more than your top amount just because it is a fastback and not awful. But good luck with those Webers if you win it.

The Skylark is rather weird in that there was no 1969 GSX, so I guess this is intended to show what one might have looked like if there was. Hmm.

All of those cars have been worked over quite a bit so much depends of the skill of whomever did them and the quality of workmanship and parts.

texases

My 1/2 cent agrees with Shifty. I bet the Mustang and Tempest go for a lot more (double?). And you're expecting to put on front disc brakes and power steering on that Duster, right?

berri

Don't forget the notorious front end issues with those Dusters

stickguy

I remember having to put ball joints on my Duster. Though at the time, I had no clue what they were. Did not notice much difference, since with manual steering and bias ply tires, handling and steering accuracy were at best "conceptual"

Q, whatever happens, make sure to post back with links to your max bid entered, and what they end up going for.

I assume too that if you do end up in robo bidding, if you win one, it won't bid on the ones that come later?

ab348

stickguy said:

I assume too that if you do end up in robo bidding, if you win one, it won't bid on the ones that come later?

Ha! Hadn't thought of that, good point. Imagine the hilarity if by some fluke QB suddenly owned 4 cars!

stickguy

as to the cars, Pontiac looks interesting, but I don't think I would enjoy that one. Not the right vibe.

Buick you posted before. Not too bad. Would have to replace the steering wheel, and I don't like bench seats, but those are easily fixed.

Duster you posted before. Love a lot of things about it, but they went too far on the hot rod mods to me, and interior I would have to see in person. But cool car. I would love a closer to stock 340, with PS, PDB, 4 speed, buckets, and other modern upgrades that don't change the flavor. A bit more resto mod action (4 wheel disks, suspension and steering package, 5 speed stick, better seats) would be just fine too!

Mustang is really cool. No way it sells that cheap though. I too wonder how that induction system will work in real life, but worst case, you pull it off, sell it, and stick on a HiPo 289 intake and 4 barrel. And it would still be really cool.

Good luck with them.

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

You're way low on the Mustang. Low on the Tempest. You might be in the game on the Duster and you have a good chance on the Skylark.. ... my two cents, and I have been known to be wrong

That's about what I figure. My problem with the tempest is that I don't think it is as nice as it seems. And a #3 original version isn't worth a whole lot. I think the paint may be tired, details shortcut, etc. just my impression from the pics (GTO badging? Really?). And the stang is just a total bastardization. Obviously I think they are cool cars. I'm just not willing to risk major bucks on such big question marks.

isellhondas

fintail said:

I had my old project car out on this spring-like day. The car started right up and ran fine, although I noticed a few cases where it puffed smoke more noticeably than usual when pulling away from a stop - maybe the sun was catching it, or maybe the need for some valve work is catching up with me. It'll have to get a bit worse before it gets really embarrassing, but it is on the radar. In the dictionary under "20 footer":



I also made a few videos today, as some liked this sort of thing.

First, the cold start. The car was idle for 15 days, cool morning, garage isn't heated:

https://youtu.be/jylow__Q-SI

Then some driving videos. This time camera mount now blocks the other side. I took these without music, to get engine and manual shifting/driving noises. The weird squeak that is heard in a video is the brake pedal, which has made the noise since I bought the car. There's also a little noise from the bobblehead on the dash, and an occasional sound from stuff in the console tray. The speaker captures some of the revvy little I6 noise fairly well.

https://youtu.be/YJ9zEJa21JQ

https://youtu.be/DYfhIfb-udU

https://youtu.be/oa_puKyQnxA

https://youtu.be/1-SEMbSOSLg

https://youtu.be/-QgNP6fZ5fg

One can compare with the quality of the hardwired purpose-built cam in the modern car:

https://youtu.be/T6cG2PSKv4o

I didn't recognize much. Looks like Crossroads area?