Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

xwesx

My grandmother had a Cadillac with an arm rest like that. I can't remember what year it was - maybe 1975? Definitely no newer than that. Anyhow, that's where I used to sit as a little tot. I'm thinking I may have been three; my memories are sketchy, at best, of that time in my life.

qbrozen

I may have posted this before, but I'm curious what you think the value may be, shifty. I have zero idea how to price "clones."

1969 Buick Skylark GS350 Tribute

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/buick/skylark/1925699.html

Thing is, I also have no idea what it was before. Hagerty valuation tool doesn't show a '69 GS that is below GS350.

ab348

That's a nice solid car, QB. I notice it is a radio delete car, which is unusual. You couldn't restore one to that level for close to that kind of money, and more importantly, it doesn't appear to have been hacked on by people over the years, which is important. Not a huge fan of the color but it's not awful either. Might be a good choice.

Mr_Shiftright

qbrozen said:

I may have posted this before, but I'm curious what you think the value may be, shifty. I have zero idea how to price "clones."

1969 Buick Skylark GS350 Tribute

http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/buick/skylark/1925699.html

Thing is, I also have no idea what it was before. Hagerty valuation tool doesn't show a '69 GS that is below GS350.

I agree---it's a good price. You'd price it off a regular Skylark Coupe. Looks like a #2 car from here.

stickguy

that is a sharp looking car. I like that one even. And looks very clean underneath. I'm not the expert, but looks like a bargain to me. Certainly can't turn a ratty one into this for that asking price. Hard to see you going wrong on this one.

Only thing I don't like is the steering wheel, but easy enough to do something about that!

I say get it. I even love those colors.

qbrozen

I'm on the same page with the steering wheel, stick.

Thank you everyone for your opinions. I'm gonna show this one to my son in the morn. If he likes it, I think I will pursue it. I'll order an inspection from a 3rd party and go from there. The floor patches do bug me a little, but I suppose I have to face the fact that most cars this old will have some kind of patchwork somehwere.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

I'm on the same page with the steering wheel, stick.

Thank you everyone for your opinions. I'm gonna show this one to my son in the morn. If he likes it, I think I will pursue it. I'll order an inspection from a 3rd party and go from there. The floor patches do bug me a little, but I suppose I have to face the fact that most cars this old will have some kind of patchwork somehwere.

I was going to say the same thing about those floor patches. Yes, a car of this age is likely to have patch work, but those just don't strike me as being well-done.

ab348

qbrozen said:

I'm on the same page with the steering wheel, stick.

Thank you everyone for your opinions. I'm gonna show this one to my son in the morn. If he likes it, I think I will pursue it. I'll order an inspection from a 3rd party and go from there. The floor patches do bug me a little, but I suppose I have to face the fact that most cars this old will have some kind of patchwork somehwere.

I missed the pics of the floor patches first time through. Those were not well done unfortunately, although they are likely perfectly functional. Perhaps use them as a bargaining chip.

It currently has the standard steering wheel for the year. They offered a much more attractive sport wheel that is available repro which I would get instead of an aftermarket one if you are of a mind to replace it.

stickguy

Bingo. First thing I would do is get that wheel. Makes a huge difference.

uplanderguy

Althought it's been reupholstered, that front seat would've been the Skylark Custom, as opposed to the base Skylark, with a center armrest.

CORRECTION: The brochure shows a notchback seat was available on the Skylark Hardtop Coupe. I love the "Old Car Brochures" site; I still am fully of the belief that more than any other single source, the brochure is most-accurate.

Mr_Shiftright

The best source is probably a completely original car. Hard to argue with that.

Yeah, those floor patches aren't great. I would drop the car 1/2 a grade for that, down to a 3+. Given that it's a clone anyway, I think I'd just undercoat the pans and leave it at that.

qbrozen

Inspection of the Buick has been ordered. Went with Lemon Squad.(??) Hopefully they are ok. $249. I contacted one other place who wanted $349.

Mr_Shiftright

Lemon Squad is a brokered arrangement so it all depends on who they hire and how careful they are. In any event, any inspection is better than nothing, but I'd imagine for $249 you aren't going to get a 3-hour nitpick inspection. It would be great if they let you talk to the inspector.

uplanderguy

The best source is probably a completely original car. Hard to argue with that.

But what would verify such a car? I've lost count of the number of ads for "original car" for sale, where I can point something out in the first thirty seconds that's not original.

The NOS '64 Studebaker with 28 miles in the Studebaker National Museum is such a car, but how many cars out there are like that?

The car I bought this week is original, as I know what's in the brochure and have seen a bunch of other cars of the same year and model over the years.

Oh well.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

It currently has the standard steering wheel for the year. They offered a much more attractive sport wheel that is available repro which I would get instead of an aftermarket one if you are of a mind to replace it.

got a source for that repro unit?

Mr_Shiftright

More than you'd think. But not enough that any buyer could readily inspect one. So as a source of accuracy, it's not a very convenient one in most cases. I was just presenting it as the ultimate "one up" in any argument as to authenticity.

Barring that, authenticity comes from many sources all put together. Judges at car shows go through this all the time. If say I've been restoring and collecting Car A for 30 years, and have never seen a pink one, and you come in with a pink one and show me brochure art done in pink, does that convince me to give you the trophy?

No.

How about no brochure but a photo of Steven McQueen in a pink one?

No.

But if you show me a pink one in a photograph on the manufacturer's hard stand at a car show---well, that's a lot better.

And if you have brochure + photo + dealer order sheet with that color option, then I'm pretty much convinced.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

got a source for that repro unit?

Uh oh.... things are getting serious!

ab348

qbrozen said:

ab348 said:

It currently has the standard steering wheel for the year. They offered a much more attractive sport wheel that is available repro which I would get instead of an aftermarket one if you are of a mind to replace it.

got a source for that repro unit?

Let me Google that for you...

Here you go:

https://www.yearone.com/Catalog/1964.1965.1966.1967.1968.1969.1970.1971.1972.buick.skylark.gs.parts/interior/steering/rally-steering-wheel-and-wheel-adapter-hub

uplanderguy

I guess if I saw a pink one in the brochure that said "Automobile LX Brougham in Madeira Pink", I'd say that's a good clue they offered that color.

We'll never agree on this, so I'll move on.

qbrozen

ah. yearone. gonna have to get used to that place, i guess. thanks.

thought it was serious when I paid $250 to get it inspected. ha. I've also emailed for a shipping quote and financing (could pay it all up front, but would rather not given everything else currently going on around our house).

ab348

uplanderguy said:

The car I bought this week is original, as I know what's in the brochure and have seen a bunch of other cars of the same year and model over the years.

Oh well.

What did you buy, Bill?

ab348

qbrozen said:

ah. yearone. gonna have to get used to that place, i guess. thanks.

thought it was serious when I paid $250 to get it inspected. ha. I've also emailed for a shipping quote and financing (could pay it all up front, but would rather not given everything else currently going on around our house).

There's also a guy named Frank McIntyre who runs McIntyre Enterprises that produces a lot of small-batch Buick-specific parts for these cars.

Mr_Shiftright

JJ Best and Woodside Credit specialize in loans for classic cars.

ab348

QB, if the '69 doesn't pan out, here's a nice 1970:

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-buick-gs-2/

qbrozen

Mr_Shiftright said:

JJ Best and Woodside Credit specialize in loans for classic cars.

yes. So Woodside insists on an 84-mo term for some strange reason, with prepayment penalty within the first 24 months. Minimum car value of $12,500.
JJ only provides 60 months at 1 point lower than Woodside. Will go as low as $6k. Pretty clear cut winner.

qbrozen

ab348 said:

QB, if the '69 doesn't pan out, here's a nice 1970:

http://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-buick-gs-2/

thanks

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

JJ Best and Woodside Credit specialize in loans for classic cars.

yes. So Woodside insists on an 84-mo term for some strange reason, with prepayment penalty within the first 24 months. Minimum car value of $12,500.
JJ only provides 60 months at 1 point lower than Woodside. Will go as low as $6k. Pretty clear cut winner.

A prepayment penalty?! That's harsh.

qbrozen

Inspection is on for tomorrow

stickguy

I do like the 70 also. Just not the rear spoiler so much (is that stock?)

sda

qbrozen said:

Inspection of the Buick has been ordered. Went with Lemon Squad.(??) Hopefully they are ok. $249. I contacted one other place who wanted $349.

It looks like a nice car. I do find it odd that it is a radio delete yet has a fender mounted antenna. Hopefully the inspection will be thorough and give you an accurate report.

gsemike

'An El Camino looking thing'

https://albany.craigslist.org/bar/6039413797.html

uplanderguy

What did you buy, Bill?

I bought a 1966 Studebaker Cruiser 4-door sedan, under 26K miles, factory Stude wire wheelcovers (they're on the production order and I've never seen that before on a Stude), 283 V8, AT, radio, and that's it. My sig pic is the driver's seat--a friend and Stude expert checked the car out for me. Rust-free. Bought new in Colorado Springs, CO. I won't have it delivered for a few weeks which is OK by me--we have a foot of snow and salt all over my garage floor!

I wanted another Stude, and this one was priced under market, is a color I like (Timberline Turquoise with turquoise brocade interior), and with the Chevy V8, flanged rear axle, no PS and no PB, I'm thinking it should be easier for me to get serviced locally if and when the need arises.

This will be by far the lowest-mileage and most-original of the four Studes I've owned over the years, although none will be as desirable as that '63 Lark Daytona Skytop with R1 engine was. This '66 has original paint with patina, including some scratches and dings, but I'm OK with that.

explorerx4

@gsemie,
That's perfect for oldfarmer50. He can write it off as farm equipment.

isellhondas

sda said:

qbrozen said:

Inspection of the Buick has been ordered. Went with Lemon Squad.(??) Hopefully they are ok. $249. I contacted one other place who wanted $349.

It looks like a nice car. I do find it odd that it is a radio delete yet has a fender mounted antenna. Hopefully the inspection will be thorough and give you an accurate report.

I was thinking the same thing! As a Buick fan, I have probably seen, literally hundreds of Skylarks of that vintage and I have NEVER once seen a radio delete car. If someone would have asked me I would have said I was 99% sure AM radios came standard. I suppose I could be wrong.

Once at a car show I saw the most loaded 1956 Chevy Bel Air I have ever seen. Factory A/C, Autronic Eye, Power windows and seats etc. Every accessory I had ever seen but, alas, a radio delete plate!

explorerx4

With a nice V8, who needs a radio?
My Mustang is 26 years old and a part time driver, but I've probably listened to the radio 4 or 5 times.
I put the antenna in the trunk as soon as I got it home and it has been there ever since.

stickguy

who knows if the Buick came radio delete, or during resto, they put the plate in for some reason?

Farmer, that is an interesting take on the sawzall and beer DIY PU truck. And usually, I am a big fan of them. This one, is too odd for words. And pretty sure the bedliner is a structural member now!

Up, sounds like a nice car. I did not even realize they still were around in 66, so I googled. Kind of like that model. Good luck with it.

sda

uplanderguy said:

What did you buy, Bill?

I bought a 1966 Studebaker Cruiser 4-door sedan, under 26K miles, factory Stude wire wheelcovers (they're on the production order and I've never seen that before on a Stude), 283 V8, AT, radio, and that's it. My sig pic is the driver's seat--a friend and Stude expert checked the car out for me. Rust-free. Bought new in Colorado Springs, CO. I won't have it delivered for a few weeks which is OK by me--we have a foot of snow and salt all over my garage floor!

I wanted another Stude, and this one was priced under market, is a color I like (Timberline Turquoise with turquoise brocade interior), and with the Chevy V8, flanged rear axle, no PS and no PB, I'm thinking it should be easier for me to get serviced locally if and when the need arises.

This will be by far the lowest-mileage and most-original of the four Studes I've owned over the years, although none will be as desirable as that '63 Lark Daytona Skytop with R1 engine was. This '66 has original paint with patina, including some scratches and dings, but I'm OK with that.

I bet a careful clay bar and polish will make a nice difference. If you can get a paint shop to match the paint, light touch up of pecks and minor scratches. For the minor dings, paintless dent removal. Nothing extensive, keep it original.

tjc78

Nice looking car Q.  I actually really like the color combo.  

uplanderguy

Thanks all, and good tips. The original owner's wife's first name was Fay, per paperwork I saw photos of--I think I'll call the car "Fay". Seems appropriate, LOL.

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

Nice looking car Q.  I actually really like the color combo.  

Me, too. I'd actually really like to get some stripes on it. Slightly lighter green, maybe. Black would not be bad, either, but I think a lighter green would be nice and subtle.

this style of striping
https://goo.gl/images/QQemZm

ab348

That reminds me - all of the period pics of the '69 GS I've seen have what I think is a double pinstripe that follows the character line in the body side like this:

uplanderguy

That's a great ad. Hard to beat Buick chrome road wheels.

xwesx

gsemike said:

'An El Camino looking thing'

https://albany.craigslist.org/bar/6039413797.html

I love the brutal honesty of the ad. That's a keeper (the ad, not the car)!

sda

xwesx said:

gsemike said:

'An El Camino looking thing'

https://albany.craigslist.org/bar/6039413797.html

I love the brutal honesty of the ad. That's a keeper (the ad, not the car)!

That thing is just awful. I can only imagine how much chassis flex that thing has since the roof was cut out and the rear supports in the trunk are gone. That wasn't a very sturdy platform to begin with.

stickguy

there used to be one of these chop jobs near me, made of of an early Voyager. That one was probably not too flexy since they mostly opened up dead space. IIRC they built a plywood bulkhead complete with window right behind the front seats. Not a pro job, but at least look vaguely normal.

gsemike

I remember when I was a kid, someone had a Granada with the top cut off. They really made no effort to clean up the cuts. I saw him one night driving it in the pouring rain. He seemed fine with that

Mr_Shiftright

I'm sure he was...to paraphrase the old saying about "the clothes fit the man"...

qbrozen

report on the Skylark was not very glowing. Several undisclosed issues such as a grille and rear bumper that need replacement or rechroming. Headliner needs replacing. There is a scrap of window screen under the cowl?? Rear deck needs to be reupholstered. And there appears to be some kind of hack job performed to the firewall.

Oh well. Back to the search.

Mr_Shiftright

It's one of those cases where after you've done all that, you could have just gone and bought a slightly better car than didn't need any of that.

Sometimes people spend a good deal of money on a car, but in the wrong places.

qbrozen

Yup. I don't want to be disappointed when something I have yet to see arrives in my driveway. And I agree with your message, Shifty, I'd much rather have a car with perfect cosmetics and poor mechanicals. I'm a fair enough mechanic, not a body shop.