He puts at a few thousand miles a year on it at least - many local road trips in it. Affluent retired guy has plenty of time and ability to maintain, but I haven't heard of catastrophic issues - it's a fixture at every meet. It is also a very photogenic car, a factory red car with wide whites. He did well. He has a lot of fun, and tripled his money. Not my dream car , probably slower than my 220SE.
MB salesman I bought from has a 72-73 911S, he bought it as a cosmetic restoration about 20 years ago, for I think around 15K. Car still looks fine and has no issues. I think he's fared well, too.
Were early targas shunned for a long time? High mileage doesn't really kill Porsche values, does it? Smart to hold on to something like that, from back in the day from when targas were just a little upmarket instead of 100K+ machines for the few.
A 190SL with no issues? Lucky fellow there. Maybe he doesn't use it much? Prices in 2003 for those ran about $30K--$50K for decent, sound, attractive cars, so he bought it right. Not really that pleasant a car to drive. I think you'd like your fintail better.
Talk about a good buy in a classic car. I looked at a 1968 Porsche 911 "S" soft-window targa, still owned by the original owner! So he's sitting on close to $200K for that car...AND he drove it all the time---still does. It has lots of miles--but the engine has been rebuilt and the car has been painted and re-upholstered. He's 85, and not too scary behind the wheel.
Those early Porsches are very rugged cars, and can rack up lots of miles with a high degree of reliability. Like all unibodies from Germany in those days, the enemy is rust. Targas in general are a pain, They squeak, leak and compromise chassis rigigity.
I've seen some creative engine swaps on the 190SL, because it's a weak engine prone to problems---including a Volvo B18, and a GM V-6. I've read about, and seen photos of a 190SL body stretched a bit and then put onto a complete 2004 SL600 chassis and drivetrain. That's pretty nuts. It''s called "The Mercedes Bent".
190SL custom sounds like a quick way to burn 6 figures and get almost nothing back if you ever sell. One thing about those cars, the proportions are right, and they don't take well to modification.
Those early Porsches are very rugged cars, and can rack up lots of miles with a high degree of reliability. Like all unibodies from Germany in those days, the enemy is rust. Targas in general are a pain, They squeak, leak and compromise chassis rigigity.
I've seen some creative engine swaps on the 190SL, because it's a weak engine prone to problems---including a Volvo B18, and a GM V-6. I've read about, and seen photos of a 190SL body stretched a bit and then put onto a complete 2004 SL600 chassis and drivetrain. That's pretty nuts. It''s called "The Mercedes Bent".
Probably the thing that disappointed most buyers of the time was that the 190SL committed the offense of looking much faster than it actually was. Kind of similar to the first Pontiac Fieros, the Delorean.
The car was very popular among women, however. Given how hard it was to shift smoothly, and that it was nose-heavy, women buyers of the day were undoubtedly enthusiastic drivers.
I remember meeting one woman owner of a 190SL who received the car as a present for her 16th birthday while she and her American parents were living in Paris. She still has the car! Another client just sold hers--she bought it new, drove it every day until 1971, then parked it in one of her garages because it was becoming troublesome. And there it sat, keys still in the ignition, until last year. Never started in 46 years. It went to Germany for restoration.
Shipping a car back to Germany is a labor of love, as there are competent restoration shops (including MB itself) in the US. If I won a powerball or something, I am not sure if I would do similar with the fintail.
I think it was going to Germany anyway, and was restored in the process. For German collectors, rust-free, unmolested cars are desirable. Maybe they ship 'em to eastern Europe to be worked on.
Germany has numerous MB specialist restoration shops, including MB itself - if money is no object (and time too, no doubt), that's where you go. Going east is for those who are value-conscious and might not value the provenance of a high end shop.
Sure, if you're going to drive it, why spend 2X the money to get it looking nice? But if you are into trucking it in air-cushioned closed haulers to flower-decked lawns, where people sipping wine discuss whether Von Stuck or Fangilio drove it in the 1951 Latvian Grand Prix at Sigulda, then yeah, you can get as fussy as you please.
I'd want it to be very accurate. I know what finishes should be like on a fintail, and if I was sending my car out to effectively be brand new, I'd pay more to have it correct. For a driver that might have some flaws, I can have that done at home much faster and cheaper than shipping it to the wild east.
It also might depend on the car. Someone restoring a 540K or alloy body gullwing is probably going to be fussier than someone with a Ponton sedan. I guess it depends on where you live.
Being rich doesn't mean you aren't a cheapskate. Probably the worst mistake I see in the USA is sending a vintage European car to a hot rod shop for restoration. They have the skills, but not the knowledge--and they get a lot of things wrong.
That's some tasty celebrity provenance. Also never fails to amuse me how Euro lights make a car look much newer, even an odd piece of 70s design like that.
It really did but even at that there were a few niggles and stuff that didn't work, like the heater. I suppose with a 50 year old Fiat that sort of thing must be expected.
I did like the discussion in the comments about the "Dinoplex" ignition system - such a great name.
It really did but even at that there were a few niggles and stuff that didn't work, like the heater. I suppose with a 50 year old Fiat that sort of thing must be expected.
I did like the discussion in the comments about the "Dinoplex" ignition system - such a great name.
Sounds like the drive-in where Fred and Wilma took the family!
That's spot-on market. Current auction value median is $63,000, so if you add 10% or so for "auction fever", I'd say the car was well sold and well bought at that price. The 2400 engine always brings a stronger price than you'd think, compared to the earlier Fiat Dino.
Yeah, but it's DAVID BOWIE!! This guy was a monster talent in the world of rock when he first hit the scene. Really quite the genius. So his ownership gave the actual market value a slight nudge of about $210,000 to a generally big nothingburger of a car.
Okay, so the results are in; sort of. 380 mm rotors, giant calipers, meant 1 mm clearance horizontally with the wheel spokes. He found on-hand 5 MM spacers for the front wheels. Yay! I get to drive the car home and bed-in the pads over a 2-day period during the Holidays with a good margin of error wheel clearance.
However, today I'm going to get 5 MM rear spacers to re-square the car again, and also we are going to change to longer wheel bolts so I get more threads per bolt as I lost 5 mm of thread contact. Good enough to drive normally, but he told me to avoid flogging it as we were a thread under spec. Noise is minimal which is highly satisfactory given they are basically track pads.
For scale, realize that's a 19" x 9" wheel.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
Okay, so the results are in; sort of. 380 mm rotors, giant calipers, meant 1 mm clearance horizontally with the wheel spokes. He found on-hand 5 MM spacers for the front wheels. Yay! I get to drive the car home and bed-in the pads over a 2-day period during the Holidays with a good margin of error wheel clearance.
However, today I'm going to get 5 MM rear spacers to re-square the car again, and also we are going to change to longer wheel bolts so I get more threads per bolt as I lost 5 mm of thread contact. Good enough to drive normally, but he told me to avoid flogging it as we were a thread under spec. Noise is minimal which is highly satisfactory given they are basically track pads.
Took the old dear out today, on the nicest weekend day in weeks. Nice to get out after an especially dreary and damp week. Temps in the low 50s, sun, only saw one other old car on the road, a mid 60s Stingray convertible.
Car was idle 22 days, started on the first turn as usual. I noticed it had kind of a miss or sputter at some low rpm areas in 3rd and 4th gear, not unusual for these cars, as they like to be revved. I adjusted (slightly slowed) the idle speed controller, and it seemed to run better at all speeds, with no noticeable sputter, weird how that works.
Tough call. The fintail has less than half the displacement, and no doubt the same amount less torque, but also has FI and no emissions equipment, so hp might be similar (~135 of the old hp). My car does 0-60 in 11-12 seconds. They might be similar.
Probably enough for a 10% price bump. The Ed Sullivan show is still in syndication - it was off the air several years before I was born, but people in my generation still know about it, not to mention rich boomers still have many years to buy.
As traffic is slow here anyway, I'd be happier with a just-as-nice fintail for 25K, a just-as nice 6.3 for 50K, or a 6cyl cabrio for the same money. Of course, 4 door to 2 door is apples to oranges.
Elvis and Beatles? (or more recently Michael Jackson and Prince?)
Creepy stories and legends about them still flourish. Yet the combined value today of their recording catalogs? $$$$$$$$$$$
Now that matters! But fan clamor and morbid curiosity leads to some pretty strange "collections" like the New Jersey garage which claims to own Hitler's toilet. Now that's creepy!
Re: Ed Sullivan syndication I saw a performance by Blossom Seeley on a recent Sullivan episode on Decades. She sounded great but must have been around 75 y/o at the time!
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing.
This is indeed a grey market car and a little too new - as it passed emissions, I wonder if it was close enough to a US spec model to be easily federalized.
Yep that's a grey market car. Euro bumpers, lights, velour that I have never seen ordered on a US spec car. Canada gets a ton of grey market stuff from Japan, which can sometimes be iffy as it never has records. That car is so cheap, I suspect it has some issues maybe worse than mentioned. Rust can be a problem on these at this age (minor hints are a bad sign) and the wool velour is very expensive. You'll want to go over the engine, too.
Comments
I've seen some creative engine swaps on the 190SL, because it's a weak engine prone to problems---including a Volvo B18, and a GM V-6. I've read about, and seen photos of a 190SL body stretched a bit and then put onto a complete 2004 SL600 chassis and drivetrain. That's pretty nuts. It''s called "The Mercedes Bent".
Clever, hah? No, I didn't think so either.
The car was very popular among women, however. Given how hard it was to shift smoothly, and that it was nose-heavy, women buyers of the day were undoubtedly enthusiastic drivers.
I remember meeting one woman owner of a 190SL who received the car as a present for her 16th birthday while she and her American parents were living in Paris. She still has the car! Another client just sold hers--she bought it new, drove it every day until 1971, then parked it in one of her garages because it was becoming troublesome. And there it sat, keys still in the ignition, until last year. Never started in 46 years. It went to Germany for restoration.
in 1971.
Export! Home again.
A lot of things kind of sputtered and became troublesome in 1971.
I think I had all of these singles on a K-Tel album back then:
It also might depend on the car. Someone restoring a 540K or alloy body gullwing is probably going to be fussier than someone with a Ponton sedan. I guess it depends on where you live.
https://jalopnik.com/david-bowie-owned-this-rad-volvo-262c-bertone-coupe-and-1821742739
That's some tasty celebrity provenance. Also never fails to amuse me how Euro lights make a car look much newer, even an odd piece of 70s design like that.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1970-fiat-dino/
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I did like the discussion in the comments about the "Dinoplex" ignition system - such a great name.
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I also like that he had such an ordinary car, no doubt for trying to blend in when he wanted to get away.
However, today I'm going to get 5 MM rear spacers to re-square the car again, and also we are going to change to longer wheel bolts so I get more threads per bolt as I lost 5 mm of thread contact. Good enough to drive normally, but he told me to avoid flogging it as we were a thread under spec. Noise is minimal which is highly satisfactory given they are basically track pads.
For scale, realize that's a 19" x 9" wheel.
Those things look large enough to stop a 737.
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Car was idle 22 days, started on the first turn as usual. I noticed it had kind of a miss or sputter at some low rpm areas in 3rd and 4th gear, not unusual for these cars, as they like to be revved. I adjusted (slightly slowed) the idle speed controller, and it seemed to run better at all speeds, with no noticeable sputter, weird how that works.
Gratuitous pic for the day:
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That is a really handsome color combo.
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Maybe even fairly well-bought given the market for these things now, and the provenance.
I dunno. Does Ed Sullivan even matter anymore? Pretty creepy guy. Probably best known for featuring Elvis and The Beatles.
As traffic is slow here anyway, I'd be happier with a just-as-nice fintail for 25K, a just-as nice 6.3 for 50K, or a 6cyl cabrio for the same money. Of course, 4 door to 2 door is apples to oranges.
(or more recently Michael Jackson and Prince?)
Creepy stories and legends about them still flourish. Yet the combined value today of their recording catalogs? $$$$$$$$$$$
Now that matters!
But fan clamor and morbid curiosity leads to some pretty strange "collections" like the New Jersey garage which claims to own Hitler's toilet.
Now that's creepy!
Re: Ed Sullivan syndication
I saw a performance by Blossom Seeley on a recent Sullivan episode on Decades. She sounded great but must have been around 75 y/o at the time!
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
This looks like a sweet little old car - I wouldn't put it into commuter duty, but you don't find them like this much anymore.
Diesel 140s are quite rare, and I like the colors but I think these engines had some issues, as evidenced by the maintenance claims
This is indeed a grey market car and a little too new - as it passed emissions, I wonder if it was close enough to a US spec model to be easily federalized.
OG Supra Quite uncommon these days
Hemi Very rare bodystyle
Beginning of a long line
Very rare, too bad so far gone
Nice wheels
Interesting provenance and equipment
Cousin for Andre's Le Mans
Basic survivor Looks like an undercover cop car
A very Brady wagon
https://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/d/1983-european-imported/6459905326.html
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