Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

qbrozen

i saw an episode of that once, i think. now i'll have to search for that title.

anyway, in the episode I saw, they took 2 cars and made them into one decent clone. I can't remember what it was, though. In any case, I don't see how they can stay in business. He paid something like $70k in parts and got $80k for the car ... but that means he only got $10k to pay for the 500 man hours that went into it. You're not getting quality people for $20/hour, that's for sure. And let's not forget about overhead like the rent on the shop, electricity, etc, etc. And they were EXCITED they made money on it. HUH???

au1994

Caught a few episodes of that and find it just ok. Just does not grab my attention for some reason, could be the personalities or it could be the cars. I don't find the cars they do to be that outstanding. Nice, don't get me wrong and far better than my imagination, bank account and skill level could do, but not an 80k car.

Was a big fan of Overhaulin when it first came out, but now they seem to be focused more on the pranks and general silliness rather than the car and the design. I usually Tivo it now and just fast forward through most of the show until the end. Foose still does some great looking cars, especially when he has a half way decent starting point.

Mr_Shiftright

My opinion was that the rush jobs they do on these cars is going to create problems further down the line. A car that is slammed together in a week? No thanks.

michaellno

"Overhaulin'" has a week. "Wrecks to Riches" has four weeks. The latter show seems to be more indicative of how the process really works. In each episode, there is usually one aspect of the rebuild that doesn't go exactly as planned - they can't get a particular part, the part is the wrong size, etc.

Last night, IIRC, they screwed up on the brakes that were ordered - they wanted to install 4 wheel discs, but they got two pairs of rear brakes instead of one front and one rear set. The 'designer' usually gets hammered by the boss for the goof up, and has to spend hours on the phone getting the issue resolved.

One time, they spent $5K on a used Hemi block with the intention of rebuilding it. When they took it all apart, they found that the main block had a crack and the engine was useless. They ended up ordering a brand new Hemi for some outrageous price (over $10K) and got it at the last moment to install.

EDIT: Of course, there is always the classic MTV show "Pimp My Ride" - this is pretty much all flash and they don't really do anything mechanical to the car.

british_rover

The last classic Range Rover I took in trade was a couple of years newer then that one but with about the same miles and probably in the same shape.

I think we gave him about $1800 for it and we made money on the wholesale side.

For 500 bucks buy it drive it till it blows something up and when it does give me a call I know people who can take it off your hands. Hell depending on my situation at the time I might take it off your hands. I wouldn't mind having a classic Rover to go willing in and it would look very cool for out events to have an old Range Rover there.

I have looked at a fair share of classic Rovers and our shop foreman has rebuilt several of them. I can tell you the bad things to look out for I just need to ask him a couple of questions tomorrow. If you want to know what to look for give me an email.

bumpy

"This posting has been deleted by its author."

What was it? Some AWD turbo kei car?

bumpy

That puke-green/cream top '72 Ventura 350 is still sitting at the local buy-a-heap, if you want to scratch that itch. I halfway suspect the guy who runs the place got a dealer's license just to keep the county from getting after him for having too many cars on his property.

qbrozen

One time, they spent $5K on a used Hemi block with the intention of rebuilding it. When they took it all apart, they found that the main block had a crack and the engine was useless. They ended up ordering a brand new Hemi for some outrageous price (over $10K) and got it at the last moment to install.

Oh, that's the same show I was referring to. Do you remember what they were trying to build?

qbrozen

geez. all this talk of Rovers and i forgot to reply:

Qbrozen, one of the reasons I kept the original yellow is because it is so light - I'm not a fan of the orangey yellows.

I was thinking more along the lines of Fly Yellow for mine.

fintail

Doh...it was a Japan-spec 5er ca. 1991, it had some kit that was similar to the period M5. It was low miles and in fairly immaculate condition.

jaserb

Fly yellow = good. XTerra / school bus yellow = blech.

The "Giallo Pagoda" has just a hit of green in certain light. It's unique, and most importantly NOT RED. I love triple black on a Spider too. My '87 Quad was silver, and it was just a bit too sedate for an Italian car.

-Jason

au1994

I wondered about that myself. Surely, as part of the agreement to be on the show, the car is given a thorough once over after the camera's stop rolling. Wonder if they are given any type of warranty?

qbrozen

yup, that's mine. Triple black. The nice part about it is the red stitching on the Veloce seats really stands out.

By the way, I'm about to order $1500 in parts for my Spider. The wife gave the go ahead to use some of the proceeds from selling my Volvo to do what needs to be done. It's mostly mechanical stuff (getting a rebuilt head from IAP, along with the gasket set, clutch slave cylinder, intake hose [current one is held together with duct tape], and a bunch of other stuff), and just a couple of cosmetic items (trunk release has been busted for years).

Overall, if I figure in everything over the years, I've probably got $5,500-$6k into the car, including purchase price. I'm not sure how to look at that. I could get a real nice one for that kind of money and not have had to put all the labor into it. But, then again, we're talking $6k over something like 6 or 7 years. And, at this point, I think I'd still get close to my money out of it. And after 6 or 7 years of ownership, that's pretty good.

I agree about the silver. Unfortunately, it seems like every Quad I've ever seen was silver. And the red stitching on the grey seats never really did it for me, either.

andre1969

That puke-green/cream top '72 Ventura 350 is still sitting at the local buy-a-heap, if you want to scratch that itch.

Thanks for the heads-up, Bumpy, but I don't think this particular itch would ever turn into that much of a rash! I always did kinda like the Ventura though. Probably because they were fairly rare compared to a Nova, so they seemed a bit more unique. Even if they were a harbinger of the badge-engineering frenzy that was to come.

I halfway suspect the guy who runs the place got a dealer's license just to keep the county from getting after him for having too many cars on his property

Hey, that gives me an idea... :P

ghulet

...but I always thought this was a great design, in theory, at least. IIRC, the last of the 'true SAABs', FWIW, which apparently isn't much:

http://chicago.craigslist.org/car/164588242.html

Unfortunately, it's become rare to see these in better-than-mechanical-nightmare condition (I like the 'needs timing belt, $30 plus labor,' which we can only guess how bad that would be on this thing). I have to wonder, too, unless this isn't the case with these, why they didn't just change the timing belt when they replaced the water pump?

In any case, if i had to own one of these, it wouldn't be an automatic.

qbrozen

so here ya go:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1975-Imperial-Lebaron_W0QQitemZ4643230126QQcatego- ryZ43905QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

au1994

HUGE!! I think I had apartments in college smaller than that.

ghulet

...til you get to the gas station.

andre1969

and I LOVE that color combination! The only problem with these '74-75 Imperials though, is that IMO they got their thunder stolen from them by the 1976-1978 New Yorker Brougham, which was the same car, cheaper (when adjusted for inflation), and actually a bit ritzier (i.e., pimpier) inside! Plus, while many cars continued to lose hp as the 70's wore on, I think the 440 stayed at 205 hp in the Imperial/NYBrougham right up through 1978. Interestingly, there were some versions of the 400 that were more powerful, but I think they mainly went into Chargers, Cordobas, etc.

I do like seeing one without leather, though. If I had the space and the spare cash, that one would be welcome in my garage anytime!

Mr_Shiftright

Hmmm...a Saab 9000 that needs a timing belt?How novel. Most of them have CHAINS and most of them fail. AND it has 164K on it? How about FREE? How about they PAY you to remove it?

Remember the engine is reversed in that car, so the timing chain faces the firewall. Also, you can't just replace the chain, you need a timing chain & balance kit.

See diagram for the pieces you'll need:

http://www.thesaabsite.com/9000/timingcomponents2.3L.htm

So figure $500 parts + a LOT of labor.

This isn'ta $900 car. This is a $2,900 car, and so why not just go buy a running one for 1/2 that?

Junkyard or sell for $350 to a handy DIY-er. And may God have mercy on his soul.

gsemike

That guy is from Englishtown NJ which has a big drag strip. So what do you think it will run?

andre1969

So what do you think it will run?

Truthfully? Probably 0-60 in about 12-13 seconds. Quarter mile in the low 18's I guess, at maybe 75 mph?

These later Imperials weren't fast. In fact, Chrysler even apologized for them in one of their ads from around 1970 or so saying that they didn't set out to build a performance car, so if your only concern was 0-60 you were probably better off with a Caddy or Lincoln. But if you wanted luxury and comfort and style, that's what they were all about.

Personally, I think the '69-73 Imperial was a beautiful car, and I even find the '74-75 attractive. I think they're more stylish than competing Lincolns from the time, and the '71+ Cadillacs. The '69-70 Caddy was a looker though, IMO.

But by that time, they really were hindered by not offering much more than a Chrysler New Yorker. At the same time though, did a '74 DeVille REALLY offer much more than a '74 Electra or Ninety-Eight? And by 1974, I'd imagine that any performance advantage that a Caddy or Lincoln had over an Imperial had vanished, as those monstrous 460's and 500's got smogged down.

jrosasmc

You're selling your Volvo soon? Wow, how many miles does it have on it? That's a perfectly good car though.

My mom has a '99 S70 that has 72k miles on it and runs great. I myself have a '96 850 that "only" has 74k miles on it, which is really low mileage for its age, and it runs and looks like it came out of the showroom. We hope to keep both Volvos well past 200k. By the way what year is your Alfa again?

qbrozen

The Volvo is gone. I sold it a few weeks ago. 116k miles.

My alfa is an '86. So just 20 years old now.

The volvo was great. it was just wearing on me. i guess i'm not cut out for having a miled-up car as my daily driver. I like my commuting car to be tight and quiet, and the volvo just couldn't provide that any more.

qbrozen

Is this even for real? Looks like a Trooper to me. Is that wood gauge surround stock or part of Jr's shop class final grade?

LaForza?

Mr_Shiftright

The seller is a total dummy. The La Forza has nothing to do with Ferrari...he's confusing it with the LM002 from Lamborghini. La Forza has a Pinanfarina styled body, but Ford engine and Iveco chassis. GEESH.....I'm sure he'll get a raft of crap for that ad!

lilengineerboy

It is rare...I believe its more like a DeTomaso Pantera in that it uses a domestic V-8 with "Italian" styling. Motor Trend or Road and Track did an article on the car in the 80s and it was praised for its handling for an SUV (remember this was circa '86 or so).
They pop up every so often and are also in Hemmings from time to time. My guess would be the "TLC" stuff like interior and exterior trim pieces would be unobtainium, but mechanical pieces probably interchange with something else.

qbrozen

this is actually the 2nd time he's listing it. This is the seller I bought my baby Benz from a couple of years ago. Anyway, I assume nobody has corrected him since he relisted it the same way. Maybe you should drop him a note.

The guy definitely likes the unloved vehicles. He usually has a couple of Jags, Saabs, and high-mileage audis. Everything you could want to break the bank on repairs.

qbrozen

Well, that '88 Range Rover is now over $1k and ends in a couple of hours, so I'm definitely taking a pass on that. About $700 would have been the max I was willing to risk on a car that KBB pegs as worth a whopping $380 on trade.

Besides, I'm thinking this would be more useful to us:
'81 Ford

andre1969

that '81 Ford. I've heard those 300 straight sixes will run forever, too. Is the 300 from the same engine family as the 240 that was used as the base engine in big cars starting around '65? Which I think was enlarged to a 250, and ended up in stuff like the 70's Granadas?

That L'il Red Wagon/Warlock in the background looks like it might be interesting...

stickguy

It's nice to see a truck from the Era when they were still designed for a functional purpose, and not trying to out-Lexus Lexus. It's an appliance, and proud of it!

british_rover

Yeah 1,000 was about the most I would have spent on that. I would maybe stretch to a little past that since I could use it for business or if it really was beyond hope trip it down and make a trail rig out of it.

Well either one of those uses would be good for business cause I would love to take a classic Rand Rover on our off-road events.

lemko

Here's a Dart for ya!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-Dodge-426-Hemi-Dart-S-S-Factory-Mopar-Charge- r-Cuda_W0QQitemZ4642081869QQcategoryZ6201QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

british_rover

Hmhh hold on let me steal a couple of Rovers from out front and fence them.

andre1969

I'd be afraid to own a car that expensive! Unless I was so filthy stinking rich that I could afford to throw away a few hundred thou here and there without even batting an eye.

I think it looks good with the big rear wheel cutouts...too bad they didn't do that with some of the regular Darts. It would make changing an oversized tire SOOO much easier!

fintail

My dad had a truck almost identical to that as a junk hauler, but it was an 85...same color. The big old 6 was very reliable, but it had the fabled Ford power steering whine. Still, when he was ready to part with it when he bought his big Dodge, he had no problem finding a buyer.

fintail

Miled up C36

Poor old thing

martian

So is it possible to get a beater Range Rover that won't kill you? Suppose you find one in good shape-just old-can it be a good buy? Or are they all suspect? :lemon:

Mr_Shiftright

I think any "beater" Range Rover will kill you, because to become a beater would have required gross neglect, and when you add gross neglect to a complex luxury type vehicle with very expensive parts and labor rates, well.....'nuff said. It's a recipe for disaster. If it were a bugeye sprite or a little Honda, you have so many more options at your disposal than with an old RR.

DELUSIONAL AD OF THE WEEK:

Here's a guy who needs to read the price guides:

http://www.craigslist.org/sby/car/161613912.html

What's the going rate for British iron oxide per pound?

Mr_Shiftright

This might be a decent buy:

http://www.craigslist.org/eby/car/162640278.html

One of my favorite cars, but overpriced as it is:

http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/car/164131393.html

Worth maybe $4,000

fintail

Maybe he meant $20.00 but forgot the decimal point

british_rover

Yeah any Range Rover is going to be out of most people's technical capablities. If you get one with air suspension which would be all P38s, Mark IIIs and classics built in the 1990's then just count on the air suspension having issues.

On the Classics and P38's count on complete and total failure on a regular basis that will cost you a couple of grand a pop to replace all the bags. Better off just doing a coil conversion and paying 2000-3000 dollars once.

Really unless you are either a masochist or a rover nut, be advised these are many times one and the same, it is not worth messing with an old Range Rover.

If I could pick up a classic Range relatively cheap, less then 1,500 dollars for example, that was either coil sprung or had been converted then I would buy one.

I could use it for promotions at the dealership and when it completly grenaded I would turn it into a pure trail vehicle.

jrosasmc

Yeah a good friend of mine just got rid of a '95 County LWB because it was giving him too much headaches. He didn't just ditch it- he donated it to another person because absolutely no one wanted it. And this was the reason: it had 175k miles on it, and I don't know how in the world that Rover made it that far.

Well since you're very mechanically inclined and knowledgeable about European products I'm going to have to ask you this one- do you ever work on modern Volvos like, say, those from 1996 and up, and if so what is your opinion on them repair- and reliability-wise? I've got a '96 850 with only 74k miles which I absolutely love, but when I have to get it fixed it costs me a lot. I also have to say it's no 240 either...those cars were very simple and easier to repair. Saabs I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot-pole.

qbrozen

the trick is not to take your volvo to a dealer. Find an independent mechanic who specializes in them.

The 850s are pretty reliable. As with any european, you just need to keep on top of it so you don't get buried in backlogged repairs. There is tons of info on the net at dedicated volvo boards to help you take care of just about anything on your own on that car.

british_rover

Agreed most of the basic stuff like oil changes and brakes you can do on your own. You just need proper instructions, the proper tools and to take your time.

Once you feel comfortable with that then moving on to spark plugs and wires possibly valve cover gaskets or oil pan gaskets is not that bad either.

harborlights

We have bought a 1979 Toyota Corona for our son who just turned 16. It has just shy of 29K miles. Interior is spotless. Looks like we now have a rusted fuel tank and will have to have the carborator repaired. I have looked on line for a fuel tank. Does anyone have any suggestions. So far we have put @$1000.00 into this car. I think it will be a great car if we can just get it running.
:sick:

bumpy

creative advertising

You could maybe do worse for $2500?

If you want one, this would seem to be the one to get.
The VA state inspection sticker is four years old, though. Hmmm.

perfect for dump runs

The "project" is to justify the asking price.

OBO is about a tenth of the asking price

"reluctant" indeed, but it was a typo

Yeah, I suppose it could be a party wagon.

a good excuse to spend more time at the VW dealer

overpriced, but still a better deal than the VW

$2800? Not unless you swapped in a JDM CA18DE.
I will give credit for photoshopping the plate.

not to be confused with the solid-roof Miatas

Some people like this, but I'm not one of them.

haven't seen one of these in a while

"well taken care of" = I spent twice the asking price keeping this thing running

I should email this to Rocky.

Mr_Shiftright

Find a wrecking yard that will put your request for a gas tank "on the wire"---they connect to a network of wrecking yards around the country. Surely, there are thousands of these cars lying around out there.

As for the carburetor, that could be very tricky and not cheap.

qbrozen

what about a plastic fuel cell of some sort?

fintail

Seems kinda steep for a gigantic model kit

These are cool

Nice 116