Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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Comments

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,039
    I like that Caprice. Seems like that light metallic blue is a color that wears really well on big 70's mastodons.

    That Benz would actually be kinda nice, if it weren't for those awful wheels.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think people realize what 20" wheels do to handling---that thing must be like water-skiing when it's raining and high speed maneuvers must be really fun...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,039
    And the sad thing is, I don't think they even look all that good. They draw attention, sure. But IMO they just make you look like you're too easily parted with your money.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    It gives the wannabe thug/pimp/gangsta look, which really doesn't fit the car nor the city in which it resides. But at least the car itself appears to be well kept.

    Probably not the car mentioned in "fuel-injected Stingray and a 413"
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    chaos in automotive design....
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,039
    that makes that '63 Imperial look awkward is that it appears to be jacked up. It would look better if it were at a more stock ride height. I never did like those styles with the neoclassic free-standing headlights, but I think the '63 is about the best of them. The '61 looked really awful, with its Batmobile-ish tailfins and more ornate grille-work. I think the '61 had harsher creases as well.

    I also believe that Imperials around this time frame used the same roof for both the 2- and 4-door hardtop. As a result, I think the car actually looks a bit better in 4-door form, while the 2-door suffers a bit!

    As I recall, they're actually pretty attractive from the rear. Look kinda like a mega-sized '63 Valiant.

    And the style did clean up pretty nicely for '64-66, IMO.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    the word "abomination" passes my lips but okay I'll shut up :cry:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,039
    one of my favorite years for the Imperial is the 1960. Especially as a convertible, which eliminates the fussiness of the roofline.

    Now closed models did have really strange rooflines, and I don't like the way they look from the rear. I think it's mainly that front-end style that I like about them. Makes me think of a '58 Cadillac, just cleaned up some.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    When I look at these cars they make no sense to me aesthetically. It's like ten different people designed them without talking to each other first. If it were music it would be harmonicas, tubas, clanging cymbols, accordians drums violins and a church organ playing the Best of the Rolling Stones.

    Other than that.... :P

    Actually these cars are more fun to sit in and drive than to look at.....a Cadillac body from the early 60s on a Chrysler chassis and drive train would have been great!
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,754
    People REALLY need to be educated on the difference between "dreaming of what you would like to get for your car if every buyer was a moron" and "what you should settle for as a minimum selling price."

    Do they honestly feel this Corvair is worth more than the $1500 bid??

    Its bad enough when what you are selling seems like a scam without putting a reserve on the darned thing. Citroen

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    What makes you think the Citroen is a scam deal?

    CORVAIR -- well now, a flat six engine that has been lying around for years and years is a very bad thing...the piston rings lay on the bottom side of the cylinder and rust into the cylinder wall. I bet the thing will smoke like a coal-fired power plant.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,754
    well, maybe scam is harsh, but I definitely wouldn't have any confidence in bidding. What are you going to get for your money?

    So it seems like you are buying an unseen Citroen from overseas, that may or may not arrive in the near future, and may or may not be legal to drive on our roads. Does that pretty much cover the deal?

    I guess my big problem is that most scam deals involve wiring money to a place like Holland (where this car is supposedly located). Not to mention, the car is in Holland, but the seller is in Jersey, and the web address of the seller is Canadian.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,039
    but it looks to me like they're trying to sell the nice one now, but including a picture of that one with the rust, saying that it's going to be brought over to Joisey and, if you're intersested, they'll restore it to your specs.

    As for reserve prices, some of them can be pretty silly.

    I found my '79 New Yorker on eBay, and I forget what the reserve was, but I think it had a buy-it-now price of $2500 or $2900. Well, I was the high bidder on it; I think I bid up to something like $725, but nobody hit the reserve. I contacted the seller, and we agreed to $900.

    Well, when I went out to look at it, it was actually at a little sales lot, and a sign for $1695 on it.

    I think my '76 LeMans had a buy it now price of $4500. I don't know what its reserve was either, but I think it got bid up to around $2500-3000 and didn't trip it. I contacted this guy too, and we agreed on $3000.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay I see what you guys are saying...sure, you'd be batso loony to send money to Holland that's for sure....but...sigh...someone will.....

    High reserves usually mean the person is fishing for a naive buyer (the old "eBay is a gold mine" theory, which isnt true), and then when no fish arrive, they run it again or close the deal privately. Basically the "greed factor" is operative here. Many of these "deadbeat buyer" complaints are, I betcha, from people who bid the car to the high reserve, told their friends, got laughed at, and kicked the deal.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    Eurocars is a legit company, I've seen their stuff before. Weird ad, but the product is real. They've just now opened US operations. http://www.eurocar.ca/

    Nice AMC survivor

    Not a good idea to try to sell a car with pics of it being abused
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Does Eurocar ever have anything besides funky CV and Citroens?

    I would kill for a european only spec two door classic range Rover.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    That Audi is typically used for RallyCross, it was meant to be abused. The trick is to swap an MC1 from a 5000 turbo or a AAN from a 91 200 turbo and for either, go megasquirt for standalone fuel management.
    I don't think normal people looking for cheap transportation buy 20 year old Audi 4000Qs, and if they do, they kind of deserve whats comming to them.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    As my friend who owns a Porsche-Audi repair shop always says:

    "Your Audi is fixed.....for now".
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    People who own old Audis must really have the patience of a saint when something goes wrong with their vehicles. They must spend needless amounts of time and money trying to keep those things on the road. I bet you've seen a lot of cases like that.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Either that or they are masochists.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    It's pretty brutal. Problem is, the cars aren't worth anything, so you get hosed on both ends. There's no real upside. There's this guy in my neighborhood trying to sell a really REALLY clean 1990 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo Wagon 5-speed(great ski car)--keeps going lower and lower and lower. I'd say it's worth about $800, which breaks his heart to hear. He's at $2,500, no takers. I told one Audi freak about it and he said "I don't want the car, but I'll buy the driveshaft"!!
  • jrosasmcjrosasmc Member Posts: 1,711
    Shifty I wonder what my '96 Volvo will be worth once it gets real high miles on it! (Up to 74K now)
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    He should put it on Audifans classified or an Audi specific site. It gets back to what I said about selling it to someone who buys into the gospel.
    Its too bad its not a 91 wagon, then you get the 20 valve turbo (225hp, and pretty quick for that size of car). The downside is you get UFO brakes, which are $$$ to do anything.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I was looking at eBay the other day and a guy had an audio clip of his 944 running at a claimed 7,000 rpm, which I am pretty sure is past redline. He also bragged about how fast it would takeoff if you dropped the clutch at similar revs. He did warn prospective buyers not to do this a lot as clutches on those cars are expensive. Can you run away fast enough from a car like that? Probably so if that guy was chasing you, as the car would likely hand grenade before it left his driveway.

    Owners of beater 944s also like to brag that they got it up to 160 mph one night (probably driving home from his favorite bar). This tells me two things - that the seller is a liar and an idiot.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Owners of specifc models of cars really seem to attract certain types of people.

    Just for example and I don't mean to offend anyone but after 10 years in various parts of the automotive business this is what I have seen.

    For the most part people that drive Monte Carlos are jerks.
    The older the Monte the bigger the jerk up until 1981 at least. Once you go older then the 1981 generation then they become normal people again.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,754
    That's the Canadian website I was referring to.

    I dunno. I just find it a little suspicious when you are based in Lakewood, NJ and your website is based in a different country altogether.

    Do they have a location in Canada? It doesn't say so on the website.

    And where are those cars they show for sale? Canada or US?

    Sure, I could call and find out where they are and actually go visit them since Lakewood is only 9 miles from my house ... but they want WAY too much for the cars anyway. I'm just saying ... if i WASN'T so close and was interested in what they are offering, I'd be HIGHLY suspicious.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I love this kind of stuff. Tell us more.

    I hope this doesn't make me a liar and an idiot because I am attracted to 944s.

    There are a couple of cars where I can't pinpoint a stereotypical owner -

    Porsche Boxsters - a lot of people call them girl cars, but in my area they are almost exclusively driven by guys.

    MINIs - not necessarily girls cars, but known more as for effiminate guys (so to speak). I love them, but my wife says I am too big to look right driving one.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    I have seen a lot of boxter owners and, sold several of them cars as well, and I agree can't pin down a type.

    I own well owned a MINI I just sold it and same thing can't pin down a type for them. You can see some trends though. Regular coopers are more likely to be owned by women or men that are just past middle age. Color really effects who drives the car. Yellow MINI Coopers are almost always driven by when younger then 30.

    MINI Cooper S models are about evenly split men vs. women but the darker colors like Cosmos Black, Chili Red(my car was chili red with black roof and mirrors) the old Indi Blue tend to be owned by men.

    I am a fairly big guy too, 6 feet tall 225 lbs, and I never looked funny driving my MINI.
    The new Hyper blue seems to be owned by more women.

    I got some rover demographics too.

    According to land rover Discos were BOUGHT about 90% of the time by men and their average income was just over 100,000 dollars a year.

    Now I actually see who is driving these Discos most of the time and in my opinion it is closer to a 50/50 split between men and women driving discos.

    Land Rover obviously realised their mistake and has corrected it with the LR3 by making it a much more female friendly vehicle. You see this in who buys and drives them as I would say it is almost an even 50/50 split.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,754
    According to land rover Discos were BOUGHT about 90% of the time by men and their average income was just over 100,000 dollars a year.

    Now I actually see who is driving these Discos most of the time and in my opinion it is closer to a 50/50 split between men and women driving discos.


    well, yeah, i assume they were bought by men for their wives to drive.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    The worst of all worlds - Model A Replica with modern Mustang GT wheels and a 4-cylinder engines. For $12,000 could I get a real one, or a replica with a V8? There are apparently endless supplies of these with Pinto engines.

    These Austin Healey replicas I like. Are they all Sebrings, or do various people build them?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    LOL I will agree with that

    Just as people who own pre-1970 MB tend to be pretty cool...

    A friend of mine has an 83 and an 85 Monte. He's a good guy, but the people who come up to him about his cars (and it happens more as time goes on) have been pretty wacky.

    BMW drivers in Bellevue...I'll hold myself back.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    Smythe was one of the less tyrannical builders of the NHL. Cool provenance, but pretty awful looking car indeed. Maybe the hall of fame should buy it, they could afford to sink money into it.

    About the Model A, you should be able to get a real roadster for under 20K (which amuses me as they were worth more 25 years ago - their fans are dying off), and I would go the real route if I wanted that look. The cars are simple and parts are plentiful. I kind of like them, neat sound.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,500
    They are based in BC I believe. I've seen 2CV ads from them for years, and I think they will now and then ship over other Euro model cars - especially MB W124 - for Canadian customers.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    Posting that I realized something. That I have been in the car business in some form for over 10 years and I am only 26.

    Ughhh.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I remember my local Ford dealer not only displaying one of those Model A replicas in the showroom, but also a replica 1957 T-Bird. I thought they were really cool when I saw them when I was 11. Today I look at them and they are really tacky. The Model A is all wrong with the small modern sealed beam headlights and wide short pimpy chrome rims on modern radial white stripe tires or, worse yet, Firestone white-letter tires. The interior is even worse with mid 70s Ford radio, HVAC controls, and seat belt buckles.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Fiberglas replicas often make no sense. As was mentioned, you can buy a REAL Model A for less than you can build a fiberglass one using a 2.3 Ford engine and an automatic transmission. Can you say BORING?

    Ditto the Healey....GEEZ, putting a 302 V-8 with automatic in an A-H kit car is IMHO "unclear on the concept". The A-H is nothing without a torquey straight six and an overdrive 4-speed transmission. And if you can spend $20K on a boring plastic replica why not spend $30K and get a decent REAL one (maybe not a show car, but a decent clean driver). I mean, you know that AH replica is going to drive like a rental car.

    Another downside of replicas are, I think, a) you will suffer the sneers and ridicule of anyone who knows the real cars, and you won't be allowed in shows with the genuine articles displayed and b) you will take a tremendous loss on your investment.

    Replicas spiral down in value to nothingness, except for the replica Cobras, which spiral down slowly and bottom out eventually to about 1/3 their MSRP value. I actually like the Cobra replicas, because a) the real ones cost so much and b) the real ones were really kind of kit cars anyway.

    So you can build a replica that looks like, performs like, drives like and sounds like the original. What's not to like?

    TRADE CHERRY TOYOTA 4X4 for beater Bimmer? In a red hot minute!!!

    "Needs Piston" --- LOL! No car needs ONE piston. It doesn't work that way.

    "worth fixing" -- if you can get an automatic transmission R&Rd and rebuilt for $700, well more power to you. Who believes this?

    STEREOTYPES -- like all stereotypes, they are gross generalizations, but there is often a grain of truth in them, no doubt about it.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,039
    "Needs Piston" --- LOL! No car needs ONE piston. It doesn't work that way.

    Believe it or not, that's how some police departments work when maintaining their cars. My uncle knows a guy who used to be a mechanic for some jurisdiction in Virginia, and if something happened like, say, a valve went bad, they'd tear the car down, replace THAT valve. Nevermind the fact that if one went bad, can the others be that far behind?

    My uncle told me this story soon after I bought my '89 Gran Fury, an ex-police car, and had the impression that even if police cars get pushed harded, they're also maintained better.

    BTW, my '89 Gran Fury got retired from the City of Richmond when the #8 camshaft lobe failed. Supposedly that was a common problem with the 1989 318's. But what exactly happens one just one lobe fails? Would it be enough to screw up the whole engine, or would it just run on 7 cylinders then, until you replaced the camshaft?

    The place I bought my car from pulled a 318 out of a wrecked 1988 Diplomat and dropped it in, but even here I'm wondering...wouldn't it be easier to just replace a camshaft, versus swapping in a complete engine?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah but a valve isn't a piston is the problem. A piston has to be "weighted" and balanced. One piston heavier than the others? All hell can break loose...nasty vibrations or worse.

    You can swap in a new camshaft but you also have to replace the lifters and rocker arms, otherwise you'll just eat up the new camshaft real quick.
  • british_roverbritish_rover Member Posts: 8,502
    That is very very true of the Virginia State police. My shop had the contract to do the very basic preventative maintance on their cruisers. They would not use any of our parts though we just did the labor which was just silly. They brought the cheapest no name oil and even that changed every six months as they found someone that would sell them the oil chaper.

    One of the troopers told me that they had started getting the oil for as little as 20 cents a quart.

    When ford switched over to a 5w20 for the Crown Vic they were in a panic because the cheapest you could buy that oil when it first came out was $2.50 a quart.
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    No comment on the untold huge sums of money added to the value of a vehicle by the celebrity provenance of Wilfred Brimley?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes I DO have a comment. Unless the celebrity is BIG, as in "oh my god, there's _____" and a full-scale mob riot ensues, then no, there's no add-on for Wilfred Brimley.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    BMW M6 coupe: uncommon and not terribly loved. Try $15,000--$16,000 and take it. Minimal appreciation potential, enough to keep up with inflation.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 26,039
    pretty big? I mean, I wouldn't want to bounce him on MY knee! :surprise: Oh, not THAT kind of big! :shades:
  • ghuletghulet Member Posts: 2,564
    Why do I find it hard to believe that a new transmission for a 740iL would only cost $1600?

    I kinda like the E55, but at $29500 for a '99, it's more than a bit overpriced. There's one in my area (a 2001) with similar miles for about five thousand dollars less.
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