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Run-flat, self-sealing, PAX tires for Minivans

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Comments

  • k12riderk12rider Posts: 10
    Can you give me the details or a link to the PAX system lawsuit and settlement. I own an 06 touring which I bought used.
  • mbillombillo Posts: 8
    If I have an option, I would take the regular tire over a run flat any time. It is always easier to get a replacement for a regular tire than a runflat. Here is one other eason why.
    A friend had hin bimmer run flat nicked. His 335 does not come with a spare. There was no leak nothing but the dealer recommended a replacement for an almost new tire (less than 6K miles). $450 gone down the drain not to mention that the tire was special order one and while the tre was on order, he was fairly nerbous driving his car and his kids in it. The same thing can happen on a regular tire too but you know it can be sealed properly.
    On the Sienna AWD, its more out of necessity since there is no room for a spare.
  • k12riderk12rider Posts: 10
    I agree, I would also prefer a conventional tire rather than a run flat and definitely over the Michelin PAX run flat system. I really do not know why Michelin chose that type of system in which there is a honeycombed liner between the tire and the rim to accomodate the load if the tire deflates. Other run flats simply have a ridiculously stiff sidewall that accomodate the load. I do not like them because of the harsh ride as well as the difficulty in find a replacement while traveling. At least traditional run flats utilize the same sizing and mounting system as non-run flats.

    I also have owned several BMW's and this reminds me that I need to get a donut spare for mine because I think I went to a nin-run flat and do not have a spare. There is room for the spare.

    I try to avoid buying tires from car dealerships because they are so over priced and in my experience sometimes do not get the balancing right.

    I usually order tires from "The Tire Rack" and have someone mount them locally or buy wheels and tires from them and they pre-balance them. This goes back 20 years or more. Tire Rack usually has the best prices and definitely have the best recommendations as far as fit tire wear and so forth. They also have deals in which you can have the tires drop shipped to a local tire dealer who will install and balance them at a reduced fee.

    In HS, i worked on cars and mounted and balanced tires all the time. I also know that the best way to repair a small leak is to avoid the "fix-a-Flat" stuff unless you are stranded. The best way to fix a leak is to locate it and then disassemble the tire from the rim and use a one piece plug patch which fills the hole and then epoxies a patch to the inside of the tire. The fix a flat crap makes the epoxy not work well if at all.

    I had to replace the PAX Michelin tire due to a bad sidewall at $350+. I thought that was robbery, but $450 at the BMW dealer is ridiculous to the point that I would be looking for another source and a pro-rated warranty.

    If you have a Pax Touring Ody, like I do, I would consider a new set of wheels and tires from the tire rack rather than have to deal with the uncertainty of the PAX system. The michelins are really not that good in terms of grip or longevity regardless of the PAX system. All the Hondas I have owned have had Michelins on them - not very good in the rain.

    I have not looked at where a spare would be placed on a non run flat Ody, but I imagine it will be on the side of the rear cargo area.

    I am looking for info on the lawsuit stemming from the PAX system on the Ody as well as the beginnings of a lawsuti for the bad torque converter / tranny on the 05 -09 ody. I am hoping in light of Toyotas recent troubles, honda will take a different approach to resolving these issues.

    I won't hold my breath.
    Good Luck!
  • abcorleyabcorley Posts: 1
    I have a 2007 Nissan Quest with Michelin run flat tires. I was lucky to get 36,000 miles on these tires, considering many other run flat tire owners were not so lucky. Nissan never disclosed the issue on these tires, nor have they told me I would have to spend $1,500.00- 2,000.00 every 1.5 years for tires. My tires have chunks of rubber coming off of them, and I was told not to drive my car by a reputable dealership for safety reasons. These tires are seriously defective!! I called 1800 Nissan1 to get some answers, but of course they pass the buck to Michelin. I did call Michelin and they gave me 5 numbers to call – all which lead me to either a fax number, or a non-existing number. I had to call back and kept them on the phone supplying me with more number to call until I was able to find a someone on my other line to service my Pax Tires. When I did get a hold of someone, I hung up with Michelin, but was told by the Pax Tire service that Michelin would not prorate a tire over 30,000 miles. Not to mention I would have had to drive my unsafe 2007 Nissan Quest 40 – 50 mins to get to this Pax tire service location. Only to order the Pax Tire and then come back to have them replaced. Not to mention the closest Nissan dealership does not replace these tires. They sell them but do not service them, does that make any since?
    At this point I was ready to just replace the Rim and Tires myself, but when I started calling around to four different Nissan dealers, I was told the stability/suspension of the car depended on these tires. That the way the car was built was solely around these tires for stability and safety, and I could roll the car if I put any other Rims and Tires on my Nissan. Not to mention if I were to do that, I would lose any warranty on the car if I replaced the rim and tires with something else other than Pax Tires.
    Now you can imagine my astonishment when I heard that. So, at this point I was stuck with a top of the line Vehicle with all the bells and whistles, but I cannot change these tires for any others to get out of this mess, and I would be stuck with paying $1500.00 – $2,000.00 for tires ever 1.5 year or less…ARE THEY OUT OF THERE FRICKEN MIND!!!!
    How can a manufacture build a car that is solely dependant on these one set of tires. I would have thought a car would be built on its own manufacturing credibility merit, and not on tires. For heaven sake what were they thinking? I don’t know how a company would be allowed to sell a car like this, and get away with it.
    As one person there is not much I can do against a giant. I would have thought the government would get involved to protect the American people from getting ripped off from a large auto manufacturing company like this.
    All I can do is GET RID OF this headache. I am going to get a TOYOTA. I WILL NEVER BUY NISSAN AGAIN! My son wants a Nissan Altima; I told him no he is going to have to look in the Toyota family because I will never buy Nissan again!!! My nephew is ready to buy a car, and I told him about my issues with Nissan, and I would help him with his purchase, as long as he stays away from all Nissan vehicles, and he is going to buy Toyota. I have told my co-workers of my issue and showed them all the issue everyone has had by everyone’s online posts. Two of my co-workers that were thinking about going to Nissan changed their minds and went with another dealership. I am only one person, but I know many people.
    Nissan Manufactures are not the only ones at fault, Michelin is equally at fault for selling poorly made tires, but for a car manufacture to sell a car based only around these PAX Tires…really all they were looking at is the marketing aspect to SELL, SELL, SELL, and not the consumer who were buying them. But of course Nissan denies any wrong doing, and they just pass the buck to Michelin when I called the 1800 Nissan1 number. Good Bye NISSAN - NEVER AGAIN will I walk into your doors, and if I can help it none of my family members, friends, church friends, and their friend and family will be deceived by a company that does not own up to its mistakes and will not take care of their customers. It is truly unreal!!
    Annabel Corley
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    edited April 2010
    A few points:

    - Changing your tires to good old fashioned GFTs will in no way shape or form make your van unsafe, in fact, quite the contrary is true. Long story short, GFTs on your van will provide you with a safer vehicle than it is now with PAX wheels and tires. Why? Unsprung weight. Weight is the killer of vehicle dynamics and with a set of much-much lighter conventional wheels and tires, lighter as in a third to a half of the weight of the PAX assemblies, your van will be much more capable in an emergency maneuvering situation.

    - Your dealership is NOT Nissan, and as such they have absolutely zero say in whether your warranty stays in tact. If they want to play hard-ball on this issue, then play hard-ball back and demand that they put their claims of being able to void part of your warranty in writing, and demand that they cite Nissan corporate publications as support for their claims. I'll bet dollars to donuts that they'll hemm and haw and then excuse themselves from writing that document.

    - Not that I'm a huge fan of Nissan, I feel that I do need to come to their defense on this one. Why? Nissan is not in the business of developing and manufacturing tires, Michelin is, and as such, Nissan needs to rely on Michelin as the experts in that field of art. As many Honda and Acura owners discovered, Michelin's promises of wide spread availability of PAX tires and changing equipment, and their claims of pricing in the neighborhood of only 25% more than conventional tires has never (and will never) come true. Nissan's fault? I suppose to a point, but there isn't a manufacturer in the world that supports the tires that comes on the cars they build.

    - Regarding Toyota, keep in mind that even though they've never offered PAX tires on their vans, they have in fact offered RTFs similar to the ones that BMW uses, and like Honda, Acura, Nissan, and BMW, Toyota has had their own share of issues with these tires.

    - Circling back to the top, the claim by various Nissan dealers that the van is dependent on PAX tires is a complete fabrication. True, the van has had it's suspension upgraded to deal with the extra weight of the PAX assemblies, but this will only make the van that much safer when lighter tires and wheels are mounted. Don't believe me? Just ask any Odyssey owner that has "dePAXed", they'll be more than happy to tell you. :)
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    Strongly concur. Can't speak specifically to Nissan, but all the talk about incompatibility is nonsense. Hundreds of Ody owners have dePaxed, including me. Only issue for me is now have some vibration at higher speeds, may be a balancing issue but certainly easy to live with instread of PAX.

    Also, if you doubt that, note in the Honda/Michelin class action, Honda specifically stated it will not/not claim warranty void for any dePAX Odys.

    My advice is read the Quest forums, Google PAX and Quest, bet you'll find a lot of info on how to convert to regular rims/tires.
  • jeffreyh2jeffreyh2 Posts: 50
    I've gotten 40,000+ miles on both sets of PAX tires on my 2005 Odyssey, will be putting on my 3rd set soon at 85,000 total miles. Yes, they're more expensive than regular tires, but my wife and I enjoyed the convenience when she called me at work one day to ask what to do because the tire monitor was indicating a flat - she'd hit a pot hole - and I was able to tell her to just drive on over to the dealer.

    (If you want a nightmare, consider the PAX tires on the Bugatti Veyron. They're expected to go 6,000 miles; cost $17,000 a set according to one reference I saw, $25,000 according to another; and the wheels have to be sent to France to remove and mount the tires on the rims.)

    Cheers!

    Regards, JEff
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    On my second set of PAX with no issues at all and great wear. Oh well...
  • Has anyone de-paxed in the Chicago area? I have a 2006 Odyssey I'm probably going to de-pax. Tires have 32K and are pretty much bald.

    I've called a number of Honda dealers in the area (lots of them around here) and none will (over the phone) tell me they will de-pax. Will I have better luck if I go in personally and talk to the service manager? Are there any tire shops that have done this - i.e. can order Honda OEM rims, possibly use my old TPMS sensors (or I'll go with new ones if it's too expensive to get them out of the old rims) and install new rims/tires?

    If you are a local tire shop (west suburbs preferably) and have a reasonably priced solution, feel free to respond.

    Thanks...
  • stuman168stuman168 Posts: 27
    Try google college hill Honda their website is quite informative and you can order your tire from them
  • chirpchirp Posts: 194
    Seems like you are driving only 10K a year and unless you are keeping this van past 6 years I don't know why you would want to spend the money on removing the PAX system rather than simply putting a new set of PAX tires on. 32K of life is not really that bad and at this juncture you will spend more money on a DePAX than with a PAX replacement. I am on my second set of Pax tires and learned from the first set how to make them last with still good tread near the end of life. I also acquired a spare tire from the PAX settlement and have no confidence issues on longer trips anymore that I will be stranded. I also have a 2006 touring and enjoy the ride with the PAX.
  • chirp - thanks very much for the reply. You make some excellent points - and I am kind of on the fence for those exact reasons. Here's my thinking... we do plan on trying to keep the van for 8 or 10 years, so for the next 4 to 6 years, I think I'd like to have the option of having a flat tire fixed pretty much anywhere for $30. Haven't had a flat on the run-flats but my understanding is it's at least $95 just to dismount a Pax and that Honda discourages you from repairing a run-flat b/c it might alter the run-flat structure - thus it may be $300 for a flat Pax. I wasn't on the ball with the settlement - I did read it last year and figured I would make it to 36K miles on the tires so didn't file anything and didn't get the spare - oh well. As far as cost for the two options, all three Honda dealers near me quoted me the same $1400 for replacement w/ labor - depaxing with new OEM honda wheels, new TPMS, spare kit and new tires will cost about $1800 and I hope to get back maybe $200 for the used rims/TPMS. So for $200 more, I get a set of tires that will last me for the rest of my use of the van, a spare for safety and the ability to repair a flat anywhere at low cost. Still haven't concluded whether keeping or ditching the Pax is better for resale value, but my guess is for an 8 to 10 year old van when I sell it, a buyer at that price point would rather have tires that can be replaced for $700 instead of $1400.
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    Last post is a good summary of factors to consider. A small minority of posters here have been satisfied w PAX, but most have not been. If you plan on keeping the van for more than one tire replacement cycle, it is much more cost effective to DePAX if you want (pros- cheaper/easier to repair flat or replace tires; cons- no more runflat, and a hassle to do initial replacement right).

    If you want to replace, main things to be certain of are finding compatible wheels and TPMS. Have to Google for your year. For mine (07 Ody), all I had to do was buy 5x120mm wheels (Pilot wheels from a Honda dealer) and comptaible used TPMS sensors on Craigslist, and a spare from a salvage yard. Sold PAX tires on Ebay. Granted all of this took a fair amount of research, time and effort, but I was able to do it bc I decided to DePAX with a good 8K miles remaining in tread, so not a huge rush. Net cost to DePAX was just under $800. Now have Continental tires with 80K tread warranty.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    Another option to consider when dePaxing is TireRack.com. I just checked and you can buy a new set wheels, tires and pressure sensors for $1,347 (plus shipping). Consider the following:

    $488 -- Four 17x7.7 Elbrus I04 Black Machined w/Ice Coating wheels
    $612 -- Four 235/60 R17 Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires (arguably the best tire in this segment)
    $112 -- Four 315MHz Tire Pressure Sensors
    $135 -- One ATEQ TPM QUICKSET RESET TOOL

    When ordered from Tirerack, the entire wheel and tire set is mounted and balanced and ready to simply mount on your car. Not too shabby. ;)

    Best regards,
    Shipo
  • mpumpkinmpumpkin Posts: 2
    I just purchased a 2011 AWD. The ride in this car is quite hard with the run flats -- I think a big part is due to the run flats. I'm no expert, but riding around in the car for even an hour around town, you really feel it. If anyone has ANY suggestions for replacing the tires, please let me know. We bought with much anticipation and while I love virtually everything else about the car -- I am regreting the AWD and looking for any possible alternatives. Is there any way to stow even a donut sized spare under the car? If anyone has any recommendations, please advise.
  • stuman168stuman168 Posts: 27
    I also want to attest that I'm 2 and half years with 2007 ody touring with pax with 26000 miles and the thread still over 5/32 on three of the tires. I had to replace one of them last year because of puncture and was able to drive the car 20+ miles with no pressure on right rear tire. I did get spare tire just incase as PAX are limited to 125 miles only under zero pressure.
  • Thought I would close out my post with my depax experience on a 2006 Odyssey Touring...

    Bought Honda OEM rims and TPMS from College Hills Honda (I looked around for OEM rims/tpms and their price seemed to be around the lowest you can get), 16" Michelin LX4 from Discount Tire who put them on with problems. Reused the center caps and took back my pax rims/tires/tpms - haven't been able to sell the rims yet so may keep to sell with the vehicle later. TPMS reset automatically after about 30 seconds of driving.

    Took a long trip recently - got about 24 mpg. Can tell the ride is a bit smoother and also can tell the handling is not quite as robust.

    Hope that helps others.
  • jeffreyh2jeffreyh2 Posts: 50
    mpump,

    I don't know about the 2011 models, but previously there was an un-used spare tire compartment in the back on the left (driver's) side of the vehicle. I would presume that it's still there, since not all models come with the PAX tires.

    Regards, JEff
  • jcrodjcrod Posts: 1
    Just bought a used 2006 Honda from a non-Honda dealer - he had already switched out the rims and tires that dont have TPMS. Thought I could live with the "CHECK TPMS" light on and had him give me the PAX wheels just in case. Took it for emissions test this morning and was told that they couldn't test it because the tracking wouldnt disengage. Took it to Honda dealer service dept, no clue how to deal with it, said it must be because there is no TPMS now and so car wont let you disengage the tracking because of it. Said only option is to put on PAX tires again ($1200 quote for set of 4 but maybe more if sensors broken). Does anyone know of any way to get the thing to disengage so I can get it passed emissions - really dont want to have to put back on PAX tires or buy whole other set of wheels and tires and tpms if I can avoid it.
  • Not sure about the disengaging, but if the problem is you don't have TPMS, why don't you just put it in and see if it fixes it. Cost of 4 TPMS sensors is apx. $150 (online, not at your honda dealer) and a local tire/auto service shop should be able to put them in for you for $80 or less.
  • Is college hills honda in Chicago? The laywers from that crappy settlement told me to call them after she told I would be getting nothing for my 4 sets of tires.
  • No, College Hills Honda is in Ohio near Akron but shipping the four wheels (excluding tires) and spare tire to Chicago only cost maybe $50 or so.
  • As I understand it (stated in manual) it is the ESC that has been disabled and it is a major safety feature of the van (you need it). You should be able to cut out the TPMS from the PAX set of wheels and reuse them on the new rims and tires. I started my dePAXing right after I got my 2006 van and needed snow tires. I completed it this summer by selling by PAX wheels ($300) on Craig’s list and settling up with Honda for $110 and Michelin for $358.00 (Class action). I bought new TPMS on eBay for $154.00 (as stated in early post) and brought them to Town Fair Tire in metro Boston and walk out the door with new wheels (TPMS installed) and tires for $1008.00 and I love them! To buy time you could install the PAX pass inspection and replace them but you really do need to have the TPMS! Your best bet is to cut out the old ones and have them installed. To test them out first place each PAX wheel next to your new ones and the RF should sync up and that will confirm the TPMS are still good.
    RT
  • Hi Don,

    Just browsing this message board and wondering how dePAX life is working out for you. It's time for a new set of PAX tires ($1340) and I'm wondering if I should convert. I would be more than happy to pay a few hundred dollars more for the conversion IF it is a safe conversion and the handling isn't hampered. Any insights would be helpful. Thanks (I live in St Louis MO.)

    Andrew
  • Hi,

    Just wondering how de-PAX life is working out for you. Are you still happy with the conversion? Would you do it again? I think the increased mileage (an extra 2 mpg is significant!) is very interesting. How about the handling?

    Thanks
    Andrew
  • I have an 05 Ody as well and it's time for a new set of tires ($1340). Did you de-PAX and how did that go for you? Any insights would be helpful.

    Andrew
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    Folks who've "DePAXed" have almost universally reported significant improvements in both ride and handling versus the lame PAX wheel/tire system. The only safety concern per-se is that you will need to buy a spare tire kit for your van.
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    I concur. We're 15K miles into DePax, no complaints. Had some vibrations but our tire shop did a lengthy rebalancing/testing and all fine. Very plsd w Continental ContiPro Contacts. As you've seen on this board, pretty simple. keeping PAX big negative is cost ($1340 now, your next set will be closer to $1800 since the PAX pool is small and shrinking). De-PAX negative is hassle and conversion cost, and of course your nexct flat is a regular flat. No run flat back up, but it also won't leave you stranded in a remote area while they FedEx a new PAX (for $400).

    Also, small point but as a lawyer I think this is important. If you DePAX and sell directly (as opposed to a trade in), have the buyer sign a written notice acknowleding they are aware the car was DePAXed. Remote risk, but you don't want your buyer to claim they didn't know ...

    Good luck.
  • So someone could take us to court for not "informing" them while Honda/Michelin get away with what they have done to all the Touring owners out there? Yeah, I guess that's the way it goes in this crazy world.

    I have just ordered a de-PAX kit from College-Hills Honda in Ohio. I called 3 local Honda dealers in St Louis and they don't want to touch it because "Honda sent us a letter and so we cant." The 4th said they would do it for me. I asked the guys at College-Hills, "So why are you doing this when almost everyone else is too afraid and saying 'No way'?" And they said, "Because it's the right thing to do." I'm sure I could find the wheels cheaper elsewhere but I'm happy to give these guys my business for sticking their necks out for us.
  • aggie76aggie76 Posts: 266
    If you don't mind sharing, what kind of pricing did College-Hills give you? I live very remote from dealers so will need to find someone to help out.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    While I have only heard good things about College-Hills Honda; you can find other options over at TireRack.com. I just looked up a 17" wheel package with TPMS sensors, highly ranked Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires, and good looking Moda MD10 wheels for only $1,172.00. Not too shabby. :)
  • zboaterzboater Posts: 17
    edited October 2010
    Thanks to all on this forum. I was at 64K miles and looking at my 3rd set of PAX tires (no way at another $1,400). I recently de-PAX&#146;ed my 2006 Touring for about the same $1,400 price and could not be happier. Lots of options, but I ended up getting remanufactured 2008 Odyssey EXL wheels 16&#148; (42700-SHJ-L81) with new lug nuts and sensors, put on Goodyear Assurance Comfort Tread Touring tires 235/65-16, and added the spare tire in the back. The ride is so much smoother and quieter than before &#150; no more wheel shake and vibration due to those crappy PAX tires (even when the car was perfectly aligned with the PAX tires it always shake and pulled). While at first the car does not seem to drive &#147;as sporty&#148; (maybe it is the fact that the PAX tires were >400 lbs with sidewalls like steel vs. the new all season tires that are <160 lbs) … it does not feel &#147;mushy&#148;, handles well, and it is so much more enjoyable to drive in town and on long trips. My only complaint is that I wish I would have done this before buying my 2nd set of PAX ties at 37K miles. Note &#150; we did look at doing after market wheels (like the 17&#148; Elbrus 102), but decided to stay with the OEM look.

    BTW &#150; I noticed Honda is going to start charging a $50/wheel &#147;core&#148; fee for wheels &#150; so not sure how this is going to impact the cost of replacing with OEM wheels going forward &#150; my guess is cut up those PAX tires, yank out the sensors, and send those the nice looking but crappy wheels back to Honda to save $200.
    American Honda Launches Alloy Wheel Recycling Program
    9/29/2010
    American Honda Motor Co, Inc. announced the launch of its new alloy wheel recycling program.
    Beginning Oct. 1, American Honda will institute a core charge on all original equipment replacement Honda and Acura alloy wheels sold to its respective dealerships as an incentive to have the wheels recovered. Once the wheels are returned to American Honda, they will be melted down and reprocessed.
    For decades, American Honda says it has been an industry leader in creating more environmentally responsible means of producing automobiles and other products and that it remains committed to continuously reducing its ecological footprint and being an environmentally responsible citizen. American Honda already recycles or remanufactures many replacement parts.
    &#147;This is definitely a further step in the right direction&#148; says Bruce Smith, vice president of American Honda Parts Operations. &#147;Recycling alloy wheels will save space in landfills, help prevent ground pollution and allow the metal to be re-purposed &#151; all good for our environment.&#148;
    The program does not apply to any replacement alloy wheels purchased by Honda or Acura dealers prior to Sept. 20, 2010. Accessory wheels and steel wheels are excluded from the program.
  • RT
    I'm curious about the class action. Can you point me in the right direction? I want Honda and Michelin to pay and correct the error they made in installing a that awfull PAX in the touring (and for deceiving customers and not assuming responsibility)
    Thanks
  • zboaterzboater Posts: 17
    The class action time period has expired (Jan 2010) ... all costs on you ... unless someone else here knows something I don't. More info at http://www.sfmslaw.com/class-action-lawsuits/cases.php?id=343
  • Hi, new here to the forums. We have a '07 Ody and are looking (big surprise) to dePax after 2 new sets of tires. Back tires are getting pretty low in tread. From my prelim. research (and judging by the answers here on the forum), looks like College Hills Honda is the way to go with ordering rims. I live in the metro Atlanta area and am looking to have someone complete the dePax for us. Has anyone in the Atlanta area found or know of someone to do this? Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks! :)
  • Hi Hondanothnx,

    As posted, the class action case is closed. You should check the web site listed but I think you would have had to opt-out to file your own case. It would be a lot of work for very little reward. I have read that others have tried small claims court will bad results. Many others of bought their de-PAXing wheels, TPMS, and tires through Honda dealers online. I started my de-PAXing right after I got my 2006 van; we needed snow tires. We bought Honda steel wheels, TPMS, hubcaps, lugs, tires, spare tire kit from Honda BernardiParts.com online dealer $1278.82, which include mount, balance, and delivery. I completed de-PAXing this summer by selling my PAX wheels ($300) on Craig&#146;s list and settling up with Honda for $110 and Michelin for $358.00 (Class action). I bought new Honda OEM TPMS on eBay for $154.00 and brought them to Town Fair Tire in metro Boston and walk out the door with new aftermarket wheels (TPMS installed) and tires for $1008.00 and I love them! The town Fair tire package is complete including the wheels (17x7.5 5x120 Elbrus 105), Hub rings, Spline drive bolt kit, Hankook Ventus AS RH07, mounting, balancing, front wheel alignment,

    The online dealer option is simple and works but more money. I am very happy going with a local tier dealer package and saved a lot.

    RT
  • RT

    Thanks for the info. I called Michelin, they don't offer anything. The class action is closed for me. Local tire shops loughed when I said "PAX system", and said "go to Honda, and bring a big check book with you...."
    Town fair tire solution might work for me
    Which store was it in the Boston area? I get to Boston often enough, so will give it a try

    Many thanks
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    You can also order a complete wheel, TPMS, and tire package from TireRack.com for about $1,000. When the tires arrive they are literally ready to mount; simply jack up each corner, take off the PAX wheels and put the new ones on. Once the new wheels are mounted, you can either take your van to your dealer for a TPMS retrain, or many repair shops that has the ability to retrain the TPMS system.
  • I used the Town Fair Tire center at 1675 VFW parkway, West Roxbury MA (617) 323-2882. Any tire store could help you. They need to stop thinking &#147;de-PAX-ing&#148; and just deal with your Honda van like any other Honda van. I only difference is you need to have TPMS install on your wheels which you can buy online and if you get the Honda OEM parts you do not have to pay to have them retain. Tell them you have a EXL and would like to get a new wheel and tire package which they will be very happy to sell you. Then you hand them the TPMS and say please use them vs. the valve stems they had planned use. Just make sure you pick a wheel that can use your TPMS.
    The TireRack is also a great option as Shipo said and they also sell the retraining kit but it is a little pricy. At one time TireRack would not sell you a de-PAX-ing solution if you told them you have a PAX van.
    Shipo what is the best way to order the wheels and tires on TireRack for a PAX van or have they changed their rule about not helping out with de-PAX-ing?
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    If one doesn't want (or necessarily need) to maintain the Honda factory look, then buying a set of aftermarket wheels is a good way to go. Were it that I had something like a 2007 Honda Odyssey with the PAX system, I'd simply order via TireRack and specify I had an EX-L (just like you suggested in your post) and go from there. Personally I'd go for 17" wheels and opt for one of the two following styles:

    - Elbrus 102 for $122 per wheel
    - Moda MD10 for $108 per wheel

    When it comes to rubber the only tire I'd use is the highly regarded Michelin Primacy MXV4, a tire that seems to be able to do it all regardless of the driving environment or the road and weather conditions.

    In the end, the two wheel/tire packages with the TPMS would tally up as follows:

    - Elbrus 102 17x7.5 / Michelin Primacy MXV4 235/60R17
    - - Wheels ---- $488
    - - Tires -------- $628
    - - TPMS ------ $112
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,228
    - - Tax -------- No tax here in New Hamshire
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,228
    - - Shipping --- $100 (approx.)
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,328

    - Moda MD10 17x7.5 / Michelin Primacy MXV4 235/60R17
    - - Wheels ---- $432
    - - Tires -------- $628
    - - TPMS ------ $112
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,172
    - - Tax -------- No tax here in New Hamshire
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,172
    - - Shipping --- $100 (approx.)
    =================
    - - Total ------ $1,272

    FWIW, I use our local TownFair Tire in Salem, New Hampshire (just north of the Mass state line, all of 30 miles from Boston and by virtue of crossing the state line, no sales tax), and while I've had no problem with their actual tire service, they're not exactly pros when it comes to alignments. Twice they've aligned our vans, twice I've had to take the vans elsewhere to have the alignment fixed.
  • skap2skap2 Posts: 34
    One note -- if you choose any option other than cutting out the TPMS from your old Pax tires, make sure you get the right TPMS for your year Ody. I can't speak for other years, but on our 07 Touring I was told compatible TPMS will reset automatically after a few miles, and that's what happened. This is only on the Touring, if you have Touring and get compatible TPMS, no need to pay the dealer or anyone else to "retrain".
  • r0ck0r0ck0 Posts: 3
    OK, I bought a used 2008 Odyssey Touring from my local Toyota Dealership. How can I tell if my tires are PAX or not? The dealership has no clue.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,148
    Look at the side of the tire for the size. If it is a standard size like 235/45 R17 then they're conventional tires, however, if they're something like 265-790R540A then they're PAX tires.
  • r0ck0r0ck0 Posts: 3
    Thanks for the quick reply. I am not by the van right now, so I will look later. The van DOES have the 5-spoke Honda rim - does that make a difference? I have been googling all morning and some sites say that the 11-spoke is the PAX and the 5-spoke is the non-PAX.
  • I agree with shipo - compare the tire size specs with the PAX (you can probably get the specs from michelin's PAX website). But if you have the 5 spoke it is almost assuredly non-PAX as the PAX has the 11 spoke (or is it 10 spoke) design. Not sure what you were hoping the answer would be, but I changed out my 2005 odyssey PAX tires for conventional and have been happy since.
  • r0ck0r0ck0 Posts: 3
    Awesome, I'll check out the website and check the tire size when I get home from work.

    Paid $24,500 for a 2008 Touring in great condition with 58,000 miles on it. I know it's a lot of miles, but it's the vehicle I wanted... or, more importantly, the wife wanted.

    Does that price sound about right to you guys? KBB had it valued at over $30,000, even with the higher mileage.
  • Also, if you have the PAX system then you do not have a spare tire - look at the space in the left rear, if its not there you probably have a PAX. another source is the vehicle manual. the PAX tires also look strange - the cover the edge of the rim
  • My wife's 2005 Odyssey Touring is at 88,000 miles now and we've just put the 3rd set of PAX tires on the front. The rear tires should last until spring.

    No complaints with the mileage we've gotten, so we'll stick with the PAX tires for as long as they're available.

    Regards, JEff
  • Great News Jeff,
    Our 2007 still on the original set of PAX at 30k miles mostly city driving. (one of the tire had to be replaced 19 mo ago due to puncture) got the experience driving 25 miles on completely flat. The only bad experience was quite a few dealership not equip to do PAX tire change.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Posts: 5,092
    If you are disappointed in your run-flat tires and/or wish that your car had a spare tire, please email [email protected] no later than Wednesday, June 15, 2011 and be sure to include your city/state of residence and a few comments on the subject.
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