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Comments
A friend had hin bimmer run flat nicked. His 335 does not come with a spare. There was no leak nothing but the dealer recommended a replacement for an almost new tire (less than 6K miles). $450 gone down the drain not to mention that the tire was special order one and while the tre was on order, he was fairly nerbous driving his car and his kids in it. The same thing can happen on a regular tire too but you know it can be sealed properly.
On the Sienna AWD, its more out of necessity since there is no room for a spare.
I also have owned several BMW's and this reminds me that I need to get a donut spare for mine because I think I went to a nin-run flat and do not have a spare. There is room for the spare.
I try to avoid buying tires from car dealerships because they are so over priced and in my experience sometimes do not get the balancing right.
I usually order tires from "The Tire Rack" and have someone mount them locally or buy wheels and tires from them and they pre-balance them. This goes back 20 years or more. Tire Rack usually has the best prices and definitely have the best recommendations as far as fit tire wear and so forth. They also have deals in which you can have the tires drop shipped to a local tire dealer who will install and balance them at a reduced fee.
In HS, i worked on cars and mounted and balanced tires all the time. I also know that the best way to repair a small leak is to avoid the "fix-a-Flat" stuff unless you are stranded. The best way to fix a leak is to locate it and then disassemble the tire from the rim and use a one piece plug patch which fills the hole and then epoxies a patch to the inside of the tire. The fix a flat crap makes the epoxy not work well if at all.
I had to replace the PAX Michelin tire due to a bad sidewall at $350+. I thought that was robbery, but $450 at the BMW dealer is ridiculous to the point that I would be looking for another source and a pro-rated warranty.
If you have a Pax Touring Ody, like I do, I would consider a new set of wheels and tires from the tire rack rather than have to deal with the uncertainty of the PAX system. The michelins are really not that good in terms of grip or longevity regardless of the PAX system. All the Hondas I have owned have had Michelins on them - not very good in the rain.
I have not looked at where a spare would be placed on a non run flat Ody, but I imagine it will be on the side of the rear cargo area.
I am looking for info on the lawsuit stemming from the PAX system on the Ody as well as the beginnings of a lawsuti for the bad torque converter / tranny on the 05 -09 ody. I am hoping in light of Toyotas recent troubles, honda will take a different approach to resolving these issues.
I won't hold my breath.
Good Luck!
At this point I was ready to just replace the Rim and Tires myself, but when I started calling around to four different Nissan dealers, I was told the stability/suspension of the car depended on these tires. That the way the car was built was solely around these tires for stability and safety, and I could roll the car if I put any other Rims and Tires on my Nissan. Not to mention if I were to do that, I would lose any warranty on the car if I replaced the rim and tires with something else other than Pax Tires.
Now you can imagine my astonishment when I heard that. So, at this point I was stuck with a top of the line Vehicle with all the bells and whistles, but I cannot change these tires for any others to get out of this mess, and I would be stuck with paying $1500.00 – $2,000.00 for tires ever 1.5 year or less ARE THEY OUT OF THERE FRICKEN MIND!!!!
How can a manufacture build a car that is solely dependant on these one set of tires. I would have thought a car would be built on its own manufacturing credibility merit, and not on tires. For heaven sake what were they thinking? I don’t know how a company would be allowed to sell a car like this, and get away with it.
As one person there is not much I can do against a giant. I would have thought the government would get involved to protect the American people from getting ripped off from a large auto manufacturing company like this.
All I can do is GET RID OF this headache. I am going to get a TOYOTA. I WILL NEVER BUY NISSAN AGAIN! My son wants a Nissan Altima; I told him no he is going to have to look in the Toyota family because I will never buy Nissan again!!! My nephew is ready to buy a car, and I told him about my issues with Nissan, and I would help him with his purchase, as long as he stays away from all Nissan vehicles, and he is going to buy Toyota. I have told my co-workers of my issue and showed them all the issue everyone has had by everyone’s online posts. Two of my co-workers that were thinking about going to Nissan changed their minds and went with another dealership. I am only one person, but I know many people.
Nissan Manufactures are not the only ones at fault, Michelin is equally at fault for selling poorly made tires, but for a car manufacture to sell a car based only around these PAX Tires really all they were looking at is the marketing aspect to SELL, SELL, SELL, and not the consumer who were buying them. But of course Nissan denies any wrong doing, and they just pass the buck to Michelin when I called the 1800 Nissan1 number. Good Bye NISSAN - NEVER AGAIN will I walk into your doors, and if I can help it none of my family members, friends, church friends, and their friend and family will be deceived by a company that does not own up to its mistakes and will not take care of their customers. It is truly unreal!!
Annabel Corley
- Changing your tires to good old fashioned GFTs will in no way shape or form make your van unsafe, in fact, quite the contrary is true. Long story short, GFTs on your van will provide you with a safer vehicle than it is now with PAX wheels and tires. Why? Unsprung weight. Weight is the killer of vehicle dynamics and with a set of much-much lighter conventional wheels and tires, lighter as in a third to a half of the weight of the PAX assemblies, your van will be much more capable in an emergency maneuvering situation.
- Your dealership is NOT Nissan, and as such they have absolutely zero say in whether your warranty stays in tact. If they want to play hard-ball on this issue, then play hard-ball back and demand that they put their claims of being able to void part of your warranty in writing, and demand that they cite Nissan corporate publications as support for their claims. I'll bet dollars to donuts that they'll hemm and haw and then excuse themselves from writing that document.
- Not that I'm a huge fan of Nissan, I feel that I do need to come to their defense on this one. Why? Nissan is not in the business of developing and manufacturing tires, Michelin is, and as such, Nissan needs to rely on Michelin as the experts in that field of art. As many Honda and Acura owners discovered, Michelin's promises of wide spread availability of PAX tires and changing equipment, and their claims of pricing in the neighborhood of only 25% more than conventional tires has never (and will never) come true. Nissan's fault? I suppose to a point, but there isn't a manufacturer in the world that supports the tires that comes on the cars they build.
- Regarding Toyota, keep in mind that even though they've never offered PAX tires on their vans, they have in fact offered RTFs similar to the ones that BMW uses, and like Honda, Acura, Nissan, and BMW, Toyota has had their own share of issues with these tires.
- Circling back to the top, the claim by various Nissan dealers that the van is dependent on PAX tires is a complete fabrication. True, the van has had it's suspension upgraded to deal with the extra weight of the PAX assemblies, but this will only make the van that much safer when lighter tires and wheels are mounted. Don't believe me? Just ask any Odyssey owner that has "dePAXed", they'll be more than happy to tell you.
Also, if you doubt that, note in the Honda/Michelin class action, Honda specifically stated it will not/not claim warranty void for any dePAX Odys.
My advice is read the Quest forums, Google PAX and Quest, bet you'll find a lot of info on how to convert to regular rims/tires.
(If you want a nightmare, consider the PAX tires on the Bugatti Veyron. They're expected to go 6,000 miles; cost $17,000 a set according to one reference I saw, $25,000 according to another; and the wheels have to be sent to France to remove and mount the tires on the rims.)
Cheers!
Regards, JEff
I've called a number of Honda dealers in the area (lots of them around here) and none will (over the phone) tell me they will de-pax. Will I have better luck if I go in personally and talk to the service manager? Are there any tire shops that have done this - i.e. can order Honda OEM rims, possibly use my old TPMS sensors (or I'll go with new ones if it's too expensive to get them out of the old rims) and install new rims/tires?
If you are a local tire shop (west suburbs preferably) and have a reasonably priced solution, feel free to respond.
Thanks...
If you want to replace, main things to be certain of are finding compatible wheels and TPMS. Have to Google for your year. For mine (07 Ody), all I had to do was buy 5x120mm wheels (Pilot wheels from a Honda dealer) and comptaible used TPMS sensors on Craigslist, and a spare from a salvage yard. Sold PAX tires on Ebay. Granted all of this took a fair amount of research, time and effort, but I was able to do it bc I decided to DePAX with a good 8K miles remaining in tread, so not a huge rush. Net cost to DePAX was just under $800. Now have Continental tires with 80K tread warranty.
$488 -- Four 17x7.7 Elbrus I04 Black Machined w/Ice Coating wheels
$612 -- Four 235/60 R17 Michelin Primacy MXV4 tires (arguably the best tire in this segment)
$112 -- Four 315MHz Tire Pressure Sensors
$135 -- One ATEQ TPM QUICKSET RESET TOOL
When ordered from Tirerack, the entire wheel and tire set is mounted and balanced and ready to simply mount on your car. Not too shabby.
Best regards,
Shipo
Bought Honda OEM rims and TPMS from College Hills Honda (I looked around for OEM rims/tpms and their price seemed to be around the lowest you can get), 16" Michelin LX4 from Discount Tire who put them on with problems. Reused the center caps and took back my pax rims/tires/tpms - haven't been able to sell the rims yet so may keep to sell with the vehicle later. TPMS reset automatically after about 30 seconds of driving.
Took a long trip recently - got about 24 mpg. Can tell the ride is a bit smoother and also can tell the handling is not quite as robust.
Hope that helps others.
I don't know about the 2011 models, but previously there was an un-used spare tire compartment in the back on the left (driver's) side of the vehicle. I would presume that it's still there, since not all models come with the PAX tires.
Regards, JEff
RT
Just browsing this message board and wondering how dePAX life is working out for you. It's time for a new set of PAX tires ($1340) and I'm wondering if I should convert. I would be more than happy to pay a few hundred dollars more for the conversion IF it is a safe conversion and the handling isn't hampered. Any insights would be helpful. Thanks (I live in St Louis MO.)
Andrew
Just wondering how de-PAX life is working out for you. Are you still happy with the conversion? Would you do it again? I think the increased mileage (an extra 2 mpg is significant!) is very interesting. How about the handling?
Thanks
Andrew
Andrew
Also, small point but as a lawyer I think this is important. If you DePAX and sell directly (as opposed to a trade in), have the buyer sign a written notice acknowleding they are aware the car was DePAXed. Remote risk, but you don't want your buyer to claim they didn't know ...
Good luck.
I have just ordered a de-PAX kit from College-Hills Honda in Ohio. I called 3 local Honda dealers in St Louis and they don't want to touch it because "Honda sent us a letter and so we cant." The 4th said they would do it for me. I asked the guys at College-Hills, "So why are you doing this when almost everyone else is too afraid and saying 'No way'?" And they said, "Because it's the right thing to do." I'm sure I could find the wheels cheaper elsewhere but I'm happy to give these guys my business for sticking their necks out for us.
BTW – I noticed Honda is going to start charging a $50/wheel “core” fee for wheels – so not sure how this is going to impact the cost of replacing with OEM wheels going forward – my guess is cut up those PAX tires, yank out the sensors, and send those the nice looking but crappy wheels back to Honda to save $200.
American Honda Launches Alloy Wheel Recycling Program
9/29/2010
American Honda Motor Co, Inc. announced the launch of its new alloy wheel recycling program.
Beginning Oct. 1, American Honda will institute a core charge on all original equipment replacement Honda and Acura alloy wheels sold to its respective dealerships as an incentive to have the wheels recovered. Once the wheels are returned to American Honda, they will be melted down and reprocessed.
For decades, American Honda says it has been an industry leader in creating more environmentally responsible means of producing automobiles and other products and that it remains committed to continuously reducing its ecological footprint and being an environmentally responsible citizen. American Honda already recycles or remanufactures many replacement parts.
“This is definitely a further step in the right direction” says Bruce Smith, vice president of American Honda Parts Operations. “Recycling alloy wheels will save space in landfills, help prevent ground pollution and allow the metal to be re-purposed — all good for our environment.”
The program does not apply to any replacement alloy wheels purchased by Honda or Acura dealers prior to Sept. 20, 2010. Accessory wheels and steel wheels are excluded from the program.
I'm curious about the class action. Can you point me in the right direction? I want Honda and Michelin to pay and correct the error they made in installing a that awfull PAX in the touring (and for deceiving customers and not assuming responsibility)
Thanks
As posted, the class action case is closed. You should check the web site listed but I think you would have had to opt-out to file your own case. It would be a lot of work for very little reward. I have read that others have tried small claims court will bad results. Many others of bought their de-PAXing wheels, TPMS, and tires through Honda dealers online. I started my de-PAXing right after I got my 2006 van; we needed snow tires. We bought Honda steel wheels, TPMS, hubcaps, lugs, tires, spare tire kit from Honda BernardiParts.com online dealer $1278.82, which include mount, balance, and delivery. I completed de-PAXing this summer by selling my PAX wheels ($300) on Craig’s list and settling up with Honda for $110 and Michelin for $358.00 (Class action). I bought new Honda OEM TPMS on eBay for $154.00 and brought them to Town Fair Tire in metro Boston and walk out the door with new aftermarket wheels (TPMS installed) and tires for $1008.00 and I love them! The town Fair tire package is complete including the wheels (17x7.5 5x120 Elbrus 105), Hub rings, Spline drive bolt kit, Hankook Ventus AS RH07, mounting, balancing, front wheel alignment,
The online dealer option is simple and works but more money. I am very happy going with a local tier dealer package and saved a lot.
RT
Thanks for the info. I called Michelin, they don't offer anything. The class action is closed for me. Local tire shops loughed when I said "PAX system", and said "go to Honda, and bring a big check book with you...."
Town fair tire solution might work for me
Which store was it in the Boston area? I get to Boston often enough, so will give it a try
Many thanks
The TireRack is also a great option as Shipo said and they also sell the retraining kit but it is a little pricy. At one time TireRack would not sell you a de-PAX-ing solution if you told them you have a PAX van.
Shipo what is the best way to order the wheels and tires on TireRack for a PAX van or have they changed their rule about not helping out with de-PAX-ing?
- Elbrus 102 for $122 per wheel
- Moda MD10 for $108 per wheel
When it comes to rubber the only tire I'd use is the highly regarded Michelin Primacy MXV4, a tire that seems to be able to do it all regardless of the driving environment or the road and weather conditions.
In the end, the two wheel/tire packages with the TPMS would tally up as follows:
- Elbrus 102 17x7.5 / Michelin Primacy MXV4 235/60R17
- - Wheels ---- $488
- - Tires -------- $628
- - TPMS ------ $112
=================
- - Total ------ $1,228
- - Tax -------- No tax here in New Hamshire
=================
- - Total ------ $1,228
- - Shipping --- $100 (approx.)
=================
- - Total ------ $1,328
- Moda MD10 17x7.5 / Michelin Primacy MXV4 235/60R17
- - Wheels ---- $432
- - Tires -------- $628
- - TPMS ------ $112
=================
- - Total ------ $1,172
- - Tax -------- No tax here in New Hamshire
=================
- - Total ------ $1,172
- - Shipping --- $100 (approx.)
=================
- - Total ------ $1,272
FWIW, I use our local TownFair Tire in Salem, New Hampshire (just north of the Mass state line, all of 30 miles from Boston and by virtue of crossing the state line, no sales tax), and while I've had no problem with their actual tire service, they're not exactly pros when it comes to alignments. Twice they've aligned our vans, twice I've had to take the vans elsewhere to have the alignment fixed.
Paid $24,500 for a 2008 Touring in great condition with 58,000 miles on it. I know it's a lot of miles, but it's the vehicle I wanted... or, more importantly, the wife wanted.
Does that price sound about right to you guys? KBB had it valued at over $30,000, even with the higher mileage.
No complaints with the mileage we've gotten, so we'll stick with the PAX tires for as long as they're available.
Regards, JEff
Our 2007 still on the original set of PAX at 30k miles mostly city driving. (one of the tire had to be replaced 19 mo ago due to puncture) got the experience driving 25 miles on completely flat. The only bad experience was quite a few dealership not equip to do PAX tire change.