Engine Hesitation (All makes/models)

jim70

I certainly appreciate the time it took to write that detailed explanation. I am not really sure however that is the same thing I noticed though. Did not seem like all that was going on. Just a slight kick, like you just put it in gear. Only happened when I was at an extremely slow speed and had taken my foot entirely off the accelerator. No hesitation at all, plenty of instant acceleration. Maybe its related though.

I tried to duplicate the situations as listed in the TSB, but couldn't. Tried every possibly combination and could not find any hesitation, lag or delay. Maybe the new cars have the fix applied already?

scoti1

I think the new ones are supposed to have the fix already. The fix doesn't seem to do it 100% (read some of the reports) but hopefully it would be working on the new ones.

pilot130

Alas, a pyrrhic victory indeed!!
You might be able to satisfy all this feigned curiosity by reading the Highlander TSB, which is TSB TC004-05, in its entirety--all five pages of it.
You will find the URL for this at post 1584.
Seems it contains the secret you aspire to.

mert2

Nah, we didn't lose anybody of value, pilot.

scoti1

I am wondering if I post again, will it elicit another cryptic response? Aspiring to secrets??? Pyrrhic victory??? :confuse:

pilot130

Only trying to help you guys.
Jim70's question:"Maybe the new cars have the fix applied already?"
Scoti1's response:"I think the new ones are supposed to have the fix already."
I advised that the answer can be found by reading the applicable TSB at the following URL: href="http://www.alldata.com/tsb/Toyota/1117782000000_1118214000000_TC004-05/41.html"
It really is worthy of a thorough read. Apparently the fix has been applied--"already."

Mert2's comment: "Nah, we didn't lose anybody of value, pilot."
Not sure what that was intended for.
But a "Thanks for the help" might be nice.

Edit after reading User777's comment--Your interpretation is correct. Congratulations!!

user777

one of those victories that comes at great expense perhaps?

it's language not really relevant or necessary to the topic.

scoti1

one of those victories that comes at great expense perhaps?

it's language not really relevant or necessary to the topic.

Exactly. It doesn't make much sense in this context.

irishmom

Hi...

After reading the posts..I'm abit hesitant about asking but here it goes. My Sienna has had shifting/idle problems from the start. Actually its been in the shop x3, had a software upgrade and a recent ride with a technician. All is reported as normal and what is described as a "sophisticated transmission" system. The van drives so roughly...It downshifts on its own on hills, when the brake is applied and even driving 70 mph on the highway. I'm sure this is a familiar story and I'm hoping someone can put the situation in a nutshell for me. Is there anything new going on? Is there anything I can do? I'm very unhappy with a very expensive car !! Thanks...I wish I could follow all the posts...don't have time to read. :

scoti1

"Sophisticated transmission", LOL.

My opinion... it sounds like you have exhausted all options. If it has diminished your enjoyment and use of your van, then my suggestion is to look into arbitration or consult with a lemon law attorney. You can do a search for "arbitration" on this site and you will find that there has been considerable discussion of this topic in this forum. The main criteria is to be sure that you have good documentation of your problem and the repair attempts. Good luck.

pilot130

Not to discount the advice given by Scoti, but I would like to hear more about the nature of your problems, because I think Scoti's approach to solving the problem may be a little premature--even a little too draconian at this stage.
For example you say you have experienced two issues--one is with shifting, and the other is with idle.
These may be two mutually exclusive problems, or they may be related.
Could you please describe problems you have with more specifics?
As well, what attempts were made by the dealer to resolve each of these issues in the three times you visited?
Also, I would like to know what model Sienna (AWD or 2WD) you own, and under what conditions downshifting occurs on hills--ie, might it occur when braking while cruise control is on?
Thanks.

user777

in rare opposition to scoti's opinion, and in rarer agreement with pilot130's opinion, i'd suggest you go to another dealership and attempt to get the problem resolved there.

first off in the other forum you claimed they thought you were nuts (?). there's customer-centricity. then you indicated post-flash, they told you to drive in 4 instead of D. (?)

one ponders: if that's something Toyota wanted you to do, they'd have written as much in your manual.

i think you need to see if another dealership will be more attentive to your vehicle's problem.

be factual, friendly and be optimistic that they can get to the root cause.

this isn't scientific, but it seems there have been only a few complaints with the Sienna w.r.t. transmission and drivability, and I believe most people who had problems early on, got a programming update and we didn't hear much from them again.

my thinking is there is something else (possibly) wrong with your transmission or other part of the system.

it just seems to me, its time to give another dealership a crack at the problem.

best of luck.

pilot130

I choose not to challenge your opening remarks, my fair weather friend.
But I will say I firmly believe that one does not solve problems by choosing solutions which inevitably lead to more problems!!
My philosophy on problem solving is simple: " We all possess an infinite capacity to make life infinitely more miserable!!"

scoti1

My opinion was based on her statement that she has already attempted 3 times to get it fixed to no avail. I can agree, though, that trying another dealer could be worth the effort, if there is another one she can go to. She just needs to make sure she documents everything in case she still needs to go the arbitration route. Based on bkinblks arbitration results, it cannot hurt to give Toyota multiple opportunities to attempt a repair.

Speaking of bkinblk, are you out there? Wonder what your status is on getting the reprogramming done again and a new arbitration date.

pilot130

My understanding, now having read her initial post in another thread, is that the van has been in three times for an engine idle problem, and while that was being looked at, the dealer reprogrammed her tranny ECU during one of those three visits.
I got the impression she didn't even ask to have that done.
Yet you said "she has already attempted 3 times to get it (hesitation) fixed to no avail".
I think your assessment may be jumping the gun Scoti, so perhaps more information might be needed before giving any advice.
Perhaps it would be wiser to wait until (if) that information is forthcoming?
I know you consider me as little more than an offensive presence (among other less polite terms!!), but the comments made in post 1601 are genuine, and certainly worth thinking about.
Agreed?

wwest

And some of us (most of us??) have an infinite capacity to make life infinitely more enjoyable. Henry Ford, the Wright brothers, wwest, etc, etc.

user777

i wouldn't doubt it is downshifting when going down-hill, downshifting when applying the brake, and downshifting when applying gas to pass on the highway.

hey, my 5spd AT honda odyssey does all three of these too... just very very smoothly.

irishmom's issue doesn't appear the same as the hesitation problem, but what do we actually know without much more information? if irishmom has a driveability problem, it's quite possible that what is being said is "they all do that", when they don't.

maybe the re-flash wasn't done properly. maybe another dealership needs a shot at it.

now then, how do you know scoti holds a low opinion of you?

pilot130

Agreed.
Amazingly, it's evident we have a lot in common.
But life's about choices, n'est-ce-pas?
Having said that, have your (frequently) expressed opinions of yours truly improved any?

pilot130

Agree with everything but the last sentence.
Let's not go there,OK?
If you really want to know, ask Scoti.

Mr_Shiftright

DEFINITELY let's not go there

pilot130

Rest assured, my advice is ALWAYS sound. :shades:

poto1x

About 45 days ago, after notifying Toyota they had 30 days to fix the 04 highlander per the requirement for filing under the TX lemon law, their distributor, Gulf States, called and said they now had what was described in the call as a "fix" or an "improvement" and they would like to try it. They had not applied it in their district before, so couldn't tell me if it would truly fix the hesitation problem.

We took the vehicle in for the reprogramming to Toyota of Lewisville a few days later. Initial results were disastrous. Be forewarned, apparently it has to be driven several miles to regain the setpoints. In those miles, it hesitates worse than before, barely accelerates and shifts gears at inappropriate times into inappropriate gears. The dealer service writer failed to mention this to my wife who along with two of our grandaughters picked up the car and were scared to death driving home in rush hour traffic.

My wife immediately phoned the service manager who accepted her complaint and apologized (as usual) for their and Toyota's crummy performance. Since then Toyota of Lewisvilles' customer survey operation has called twice asking how our dealer experience was. You can surmise the response we gave. Interestingly, they never did ask if the fix "worked".

In the subsequent month and a half, Gulf states has never contacted us to ascertain our reaction to the fix or the acceptability of it. Based on the dealer and distributor performance, I can only conclude Toyota does not care whether their fixes work, nor if their customers are satisfied with them.

The hesitation and inappropriate shifting have improved slightly from before the fix, about 2 points on a scale of 10. In no way is Toyota's response to the problem adequate. After the fix, with the continuing transmission issues, I'd give the highlander a 5 on a scale of 10 overall. And that goes to 0 if it ever causes us to have an accident when merging, changing lanes, etc. We're in the decision process of whether to continue and file the lemon law complaint or just sell it and take the beating on depreciation.

In pleasant contrast, we bought a 2005 Maxima V6 with similar 5 speed automatic two weeks ago. The dealer experience and car are 8 or 9 on a scale of 10. If you want to find out how an engine and transmission could/should perform, drive a Maxima or Altima or Accord.

One last thought for those of you that go to arbitration or the lemon law route. A most convincing demonstration of the problem would be to have the arbitrator/mechanic/judge drive theToyota and comparison drive a car that shifts properly such as the Nissans or Hondas. The Toyota problem will become very obvious.

scoti1

poto1x,

You stated:

One last thought for those of you that go to arbitration or the lemon law route. A most convincing demonstration of the problem would be to have the arbitrator/mechanic/judge drive theToyota and comparison drive a car that shifts properly such as the Nissans or Hondas. The Toyota problem will become very obvious.

I am not sure that this can always be done. Earlier, when researching arbitration, I saw reports where the arbitrator did ride in the vehicle, but it seems more often, that is not the case. It does seem that it would be an obvious way to demonstrate the problem.

scoti1

irishmom,

Do you have a downshift lag when accelerating at speeds from 10 - 20 mph?
Do you experience excessive gear hunting when driving on/off the accelerator in stop and go traffic?
Do you experience a poor response rate during heavy acceleration from a stop?

If yes, these are the things that the software upgrade is supposed to "improve" per the TSB. It is also what has generally been described here as the "hesitation" problem. I assumed that because your dealer applied the software upgrade, that you are having the hesitation problem, but there seems to be some doubt expressed here as to whether that is your problem. Can you please clarify/elaborate?

scoti1

Mr. Shiftright, I have no intention of taking the bait, so I will definitely not be "going there".

pilot130

Am I confused in assuming these forums aren't about taking (or giving) "bait", but are all about constructive, non personal De-"Bate"?? :confuse:
That being said Scoti, I am pleased to note your inquiry for more information about the problem posted by Irishmom. Thank you for recognising that.
I fully support that approach, given that providing meaningful advice under any circumstances depends entirely on getting as much information about it as possible beforehand.
I look forward to hearing more about her problem/symptoms/etc., and perhaps even working in conjunction with you towards providing informed advice.

pilot130

Interesting story.
It seems your experience hasn't been good, and I encourage you to keep up with efforts for a satisfactory conclusion.
With regard to your suggestion to use shift patterns with Maxima and Accord as a standard of comparison.....
If you look over either Maxima or Accord--Problems and Solution Boards, there are hesitation problems being reported there too--especially in the case of the Accord (150+ reports!!), and to a lesser degree for Maxima.
Just a "heads up.".

jim70

I still have not made up my mind which car to get, and found the following post on the Hondapilot.org site. Sounds eerily similar to what I have been reading here. Perhaps I may just have to learn to live with these charactaristics if I want to drive one of the new cars. Although I have driven both the Pilot and Highlander extensively and did not experience what I perceived as dangerous hesitation.

8/18/05 quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MishMash
Hello All - New here and i'm looking for help. My Pilot has always had an annoyance of delayed shifting response and im wondering if its just me or all Pilots. The scenario is - I step on the gas to change lanes, and the Pilot acts like I just woke it up from a nap, rather then snapping to it. The transmission has a serious (in my mind) delay in engaging and moving. Is there a fix for this? Its like having a High Stall Torque Converter without asking for one. If I gas it, that tranny better be ready

Thanks!

Reply:

I find that my 05 does shift in interesting patterns from time to time. I am not sure it its related to road conditions that the computer sences or not, but it seems to "think" about the instance. I have learned some of these patterns and now either lay back on the peddle or hit it harder to make it more predictive. I have no complaints now that I have gotten used to it.

bkinblk

Still here. 2nd TSB scheduled this coming Friday. 2nd arbitration (same arbitrator, same Toyota rep), scheduled Sept 1. Will keep you posted.

scoti1

bkinblk, thanks for the reply. They are not giving you too much time to see if the second time around on the TSB works. Don't these transmissions have to "relearn" your driving style? It is good news (I hope) that you will be getting the same arbitrator - no learning curve there. Good luck.

pilot130

As I understand it, this arbitration is intended assess the Arbitrator's ruling which was determined at your first arbitration, where it was ordered your dealer be allowed adequate opportunity to correct the problem.
The dealer (and Toyota) were given that opportunity because the Arbitrator determined they apparently weren't afforded a sufficient time nor an adequate number of attempts the first time around.
The issue now becomes "Is your transmission performing acceptably and as per design parameters?"
This is what the outcome of your forthcoming arbitration will hinge on.
It will be interesting to see what standard of comparison and evidence to support it (by either side) will be used to determine the outcome this time around.
Scoti, I submit to you that having the same arbitrator can very well be a mixed blessing, and may not, as you suggest, represent an advantage.

irishmom

Hi everyone...thanks for all the input. Let me try to clarify the problem. This problem(s) may be related or not. At 2000 miles, first brought to dealer with what seemed to be an over-idle problem. Idle was high and car seemed to drive itself ( even when warmed up). Dealer said idle not able to be manually adjusted and the cars computer was not showing any messages. Car then began to shift roughly..ie: hesitation at normal shifting points and abit "cluncky"..for lack of a better word. It also was downshifting when at speeds of 40-50 mph, braking and once at highway speed. When car was at dealer for this they did the software upgrade as an attempt to correct this but I have noticed no improvement.I did not specifically request this to be done. The third visit was a drive with a "technician" who actually did not drive as I requested but rode as a passenger and told me the car drove "normally". They said if they cannot re-create the problem themselves, they do not know how to fix it. Both my husband and myself have experienced this so unlikely to be related to my driving style alone. I've complained to the dealer about the van but they seem to offer no other solutions. The next closest dealer is an hour away but have thought about a second opinion.
Sorry for the delay in additional info....have a newborn baby and can't always get to computer. I appreciate all the input and am reading. Let me know if other specifics would be helpful. Thanks again to all.

pilot130

At this stage it seems as though you're on one end of a Mexican standoff--it's a "they said--we said" situation. (Apologies to any hispanic readers--it's just an expression!!)
Somehow you've got to get beyond that standoff if possible.
Your dealer tekkie says the tranny operates normally and can't seem to replicate the conditions you say you and your hubby experience.
A second opinion would seem the best way to go at this stage, and if you are sufficiently concerned about the condition you describe, then a hour's drive might be worth it.
But--and thats a big question--what are you going to do if the second opinion isn't any different?? Perhaps keep going until you get an opinion you want?
Might not happen.
Maybe it might be worth your while to go to an independent tranny repair shop, pay a modest diagnostic charge, and if you get what you want, then go back to the original tekkie and confront him with it.
Or another possibility--take a similar model for a test drive to see if there is a significant difference--then get the dealer tekkie to do the same and compare it to yours.
There is one thing you should know. The 5 and 6 speed trannys of today "feel" different from their predecessors. Some of what you and many others might be experiencing may (and I say "may") be a normal characteristic.
The odd shifting patterns and hesitation being talked about in this forum aren't that much different from those being talked about in other makes. (Honda Accord for example).
Not to say that some folk's situations may be worse or more noticeable than others, but it is worth considering as a possibility that what you are experiencing is, in fact, a normal situation and just takes getting used to.

bkinblk

FWIW, received notice today (with apologies), that I will be assigned a new arbitrator in the Sept 1 meeting.

user777

The odd shifting patterns and hesitation being talked about in this forum aren't that much different from those being talked about in other makes. (Honda Accord for example).

i was with you until this line.

bkinblk

FWIW, received notice today (with apologies), that I will be assigned a different arbitrator in the Sept 1 meeting.

bkinblk

At my arbitration, the arbitrator rode in the back seat while the Toyota rep and myself took turns driving. He stated in his report that my concerns about the erratic shifting and hesitation were "valid". We'll see what the next guy says at the next meeting.

pilot130

Sorry--my oversight.
When I said "The odd shifting patterns and hesitation being talked about in this forum aren't that much different from those being talked about in other makes. (Honda Accord for example)." ...............
I should have said: "MANY (OR SOME) of the odd shifting patterns and hesitation being talked about in this forum aren't that much different from those being talked about in other makes. (Honda Accord for example)."
It certainly appears that what Irishmom describes as her symptoms are quite similar to many of those being described in other makes--I can point to dozens remarkably like it at other forums.
At any rate, her symptoms don't seem nearly as severe as some here have talked about.
That being said, I should be surprised you aren't "with me?"
Being "with me" is an even rarer thing these days--your words, if I remember correctly.
Fortunately, I'm getting used to it!

FYI, the more I hear and read about this issue, the more I'm becoming convinced that in its less severe forms, it's a characteristic of the fly by wire systems--nothing more, nothing less.
In the more acute forms being described from time to time, I'm still puzzled, and looking for answers.

user777

It certainly appears that what Irishmom describes as her symptoms are quite similar to many of those being described in other makes--I can point to dozens remarkably like it at other forums.


i don't mean to be cruel, i know you are reading many of the same forums i am, and that others are, but i just don't see this. if you can substantiate the claim you are making, then i'll let you do so.

you should be able to point out a few isolated postings in some other forums where people are complaining about vagueness in shifting, or perhaps even hard shifting...and irishmom's issue i believe is nothing like what we've generally been discussing here as hesitation. in this respect, i agree with you and i've already mentioned as much.

her problem seems to be a vagueness of shifting or problematic shift indicative of a bad flash or bad tranny.

however, you are forwarding a notion which is not supported by what is reported here. we don't have people with "drive by wire" (i picked up on the fly by wire by the way) systems (the hondas for example) or other non-toyota owners complaining about hesitation.

i mentioned that i have a 5 speed that doesn't hesitate. this isn't a problem with 5 speed trannies which you alluded to before.

and while i don't own a drive-by-wire throttle system, others do and are just not reporting hesitation like they are with the toyotas.

i'm not trying to correct you, but you are doing a little blending and stretching in my opinion. i'm reading what you are reading, yet i'm not concluding what you are concluding.

i'm sorry.

scoti1

bkinblk, really sorry to hear about that. Hopefully the 2nd arbitrator agrees with the first on recognizing the problem.

pilot130

Thanks for the thoughtful and polite response--it's refreshing.
No, I'm not doing any blending and stretching--at least no more than anyone else does--I'm just expressing my thoughts and opinions after talking to folks who know much more than I, and after reading just about every discussion about the issue that I could find at this website (and a few others).
No disrespect intended, but "substantiating" as you suggested is a recipe for going nowhere, and if history is any lesson, this will only lead to another escalating oneupmanship fiasco.
I could easily cut paste many posts from other sources to substantiate my claim that the issue gets proportionate time in other makes, but that proves nothing--it just invites a flurry of selected quotes in rebuttal, which again proves nothing.
Suffice to say that I will hold to my comments which you aren't in agreement with, with respect for your opposing viewpoints, and I appreciate why you might feel that way.
Contrary to popular opinion, I really do have an open mind about the issue, and intend to remain as such for the time being, because IMO, there really has been little in the way of substantive argument to date to suggest any substantive conclusions can be drawn.

irishmom

Again..thanks for your thoughts. It occurred to me last night that I wanted to take another Sienna for a ride to see how it feels...When I test drove the vehicle at first it was another model ( le vs. ce )...not that that should make a difference. Aren't they all the same tranny's??. As painful as it will be, I will try to do this at the same dealer for consistency sake. I have not ruled out a drive to another dealer or an independant consult. The dealership is now scrambling to be nice as I have complained loudly enough and it seems to be hurting their numbers or ego's !!Thanks and I'll keep you all posted.

dla2

I have been shopping for a sport utility with a V6 for the last month and I can't say that I am excited with the way any of them shift. It seems to be the way of all the new transmissions ,however, none of the vehicles I have been driving show the same hassitation symptoms that my Camry had.

scoti1

Didn't you already buy a replacement for your Camry?

dla2

Yes, I now drive a 2000 Acura TL. This car is replacing my wife's 99 blazer.
Honda Pilot tops the list so far.

pilot130

Just a heads up for you re the Honda Pilot--a recent post from that forum (you'll note it has a familiar ring!!):

"#1256 of 1266 Re: ONLY 3 days old!! [jlewis1] by wkroberts Aug 20, 2005 (11:58 am)
Bookmark | Reply | E-mail Msg
Replying to: jlewis1 (May 02, 2005 1:36 am)

I have a 7 month old 05 pilot with 20K miles. The hesitation issue has been an ongoing problem starting at about 5K and it just came back from Honda for the 4th time with no answer other than it must be the way that I drive. However, other people in my office drive the car and come back to me with the same complaint. Honda indicates that problem is not common and as they cannot duplicate the problem it is a characteristic of the vehicle. The local dealer referred me to Honda but not before expanding on other “characteristics” of the Pilot that I have complained about, these include:

A shaking in the front end that occurs over 65. As 65 is the posted speed limit for the majority of this area, the local Honda dealer does not feel compelled to address the issue.

The sloshing noise in the gas tank when it’s full. Honda knows about the issue, but as it only occurs when the tank is full, they don’t see it as a problem, just a characteristic.

The brakes make a terrible noise when the ABS kicks in and the front wheels tend to lock-up in a panic stop. This is partially due to the location of the ABS unit and “glazing” of the rotors. The response from Honda is that while this might occur on the initial panic stop, the problem goes away after the second or third time. So as I understand it, it takes a couple of panic stops before the breaks work properly.

Apparently, the Pilot has a lot of character that was not spelled out in the sales brochure.

Before you buy a Pilot, understand that it has a lot of “characteristic” not addressed by Honda. Its main characteristic is it’s ability to make me want to get rid of the car and buy something else."

dla2

I read all of them plus the Nissan and other forums. I have also logged a couple of hundred test miles in different vehicles. The new transmissions and the drive by wire throttle control definitely have a different feel than the old style transmissions.
I don't care for the way they change gears with a minimum of throttle pressure when cruzing but I understand that this is a trade off for mileage and lower emissions. Automatics are now rated the same or higher in mpg than manuals in some cases. Most of the cars I drove shifted as well as the Camry did. This is fine in the new world of transmissions but I have yet to find one with the same or similar hassitation issues. I am not saying that Toyota is the only one with a problem, I just haven't found this issue in anything else I have driven.

scoti1

dla2,

I have two friends who have recently bought '05 Pilot's. Havent' really grilled them about tranny issues but haven't heard any complaints either. I know that doesn't mean much in the big picture (i.e., knowing two people with no problems), there could definitely be problems out there.

wwest

quickly propagate throughout ANY industry, hardware or software.

There can be little doubt that the idea of upshifting, or even shifting into neutral, during any throttle fully closed coastdown period is/was a damn good idea. Results in improved fuel economy and lower emissions.

Think for a moment what you might do in these instances with a manual transaxle.

If you wished to extend your coastdown travel distance you might simply depress the clutch and then you might even shift into neutral and release the clutch. If, on the other hand, your intent was to use engine compression braking to help slow the vehicle you might even downshift.

But then remember, this is NOT a sports car. As a matter of fact it is much worse, these are all FWD vehicles. Vehicles in which you would almost NEVER wish to use any substantial level of engine compression braking.

Now the engine/transaxle ECU cannot know why you released the gas pedal fully.

But the design engineers knew that the use of engine compression braking on a FWD vehicle would potentially result in not just a few accidents, injuries and maybe even deaths. So their choice was quite simple, "depress the clutch" and thereby increase the coastdown distance, What's to lose?

A big plus for FWD or front torque biased AWD is that upshifting also substantially reduces the potential for loss of directional control due to engine compression braking with poor roadbed traction.

But.

There was, as there sometimes is, an unforeseen fly in the ointment.

What happens when the driver suddenly changes his/her mind and decides to accelerate briskly?

The engine was/is "lugging" (idling) along at a very low RPM and thus there is little hydraulic flow volume available from the transaxle pump to quickly bring the pressure back up and thereby FIRMLY engage the clutches required for the commanded downshift.

But what's a 2001 RX300 engineer to do? The gas pedal is directly connected to the throttle and so very soon that engine will begin generating TONS of torque. No question, the transaxle MUST be downshifted before the engine torque level rises very much or we will surely have a set of burned clutches, QUICKLY.

So the 2001 to 2003 RX300's transaxles are exhibiting premature failures in the range of 70,000 to 80,000 miles. And the factory responds by revising the recommended ATF drain and flush from NEVER to 15,000 miles.

So, Mister Engineer, how do we fix this?

Without revising the CAFE and CARB ratings, mind you.

We convert the vehicles in question to e-throttle and then we revise the firmware so that we damn well don't allow the driver to gain control of the throttle until the transaxle hydraulic pressure is restored, the (multiple) downshifting is complete, and the clutches are firmly seated.

SOP....

In my 2001 AWD RX300 the throttle opening is strictly a function of gas pedal position. When the engine/transaxle ECU "sees" the throttle begin to open it changes the duty cycle of the transaxle's hydraulic pressure control solenoid to increase the pressure, the wider the throttle is open, the more pressure is called for via this solenoid's duty cycle.

In the RX330 its ECU very likely also quickly changes the hydraulic pressure solenoid's duty cycle to increase pressure when you depress the gas pedal. But remember that in the RX330 the throttle doesn't respond as quickly as the gas pedal is depressed, so the hydraulic pressure must increase while the engine is still at low RPM or idle.

Damn glad this is not my problem to solve.

user777

you're developing a certain edgeness which is rather funny to your analyses.