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Comments
There was only 1 dealer I called charging a premium ($4k) and they wouldn't budge. After driving the FJ around for a couple days I can honestly say I like it even more than I thought I would. Biggest problem is fighting with my wife as to who gets to drive.
Typical FJ customer; no test drive, no hands-on, no EYES-on. Just in love with an image. I'm not claiming your worse than an H3 driver, but don't ever claim to be any better.
And enjoy that c-pillar!
What the heck does this mean? The Rx330 ( dead now -RX350 ) is a car!!! It's a corssover on a Camry frame. As the prior poster stated the pricing is way different..US$15000-$20000 different.
OK,here is a hint of what might be going on ( you touched on it ). Toyota is in the business of making vehicles and making a profit from them. It makes what sells with the highest margin. Nothing more nothing less. It's just business.
If a person likes a vehicle and is happy to get one... just say congratulations and enjoy your ride. It doesnt hurt to be nice does it?
The new owner never said anything about being better or worse... you did. Chill man..
While I won't argue that some of the people buying the FJ are doing it for image, you seem to be bitter towards the FJ. There seems to be a lot of anti-FJ bias here, but if people stick to the facts, the FJ is a competitively priced vehicle that has very few direct competitors in today's offerings. It has some flaws, and some advantages. Its a Toyota and will likely have high reliability ratings.
Some dealers will only let you test drive with a refundable deposit - not ideal but also not a big deal. I put down a refundable deposit on one. Drove it, loved it, didn't buy because the price was too high. Currently have another refundable deposit down for one that is $2.5K less than the 1st. Did a lot of research on the FJ & its competition, and test drove 6 different vehicles before driving the FJ. Perhaps I'm a typical FJ buyer?
That is why Toyota calls the FJ a "niche" vehicle, they know it will have very low sales compared to its other SUVs as they are going after the H3 market with the FJ.
Any anti-FJ posts reflect the fact that Toyota went with image over function, exterior and interior, and that is ultimately going to hurt them as a brand.
:confuse: Small to Mid AWD is the most competitive category in the entire industry
4Runner
Wrangler
Xterra
Sorento
FJ
H3
------------- and for the 97% of buyers who won't actually go offroading:
Murano
FX35
RX330
X5
MDX
XC90
Cherokee
------------ 2007
Compass
RDX
MKX
Edge
Nitro
Freelander
CX7
Except that it is mid, not small. So, if we exclude from your list everything small, everything not offroad capable, You wind up with:
4runner
Xterra
H3
H3 is enough more $$$, underpowered, etc, really not a competitor. Both of the others are good vehicles, but as I say, very few competitors. Look, I'm not trying to say that this is the vehicle for more that 5% of the SUV shoppers, all I'm saying is it hits an interesting cost & performance point, higher performance/lower cost than a 4runner, where the Xterra has been the only option.
I'll say it again, there may be people buying the FJ for the wrong reasons, but this is a criticism of the public not the vehicle. Drive the FJ & the competition & imagine where the pricing will be in 6 months and you'll find it compelling for the people who do go offroad.
4runner
Xterra
H3"
And Sorento.
And Wrangler, because the back seats of the FJ are just as cramped.
And, the FJ has the worst visibility and turning radius of all of them. So even in its own category, it loses.
When looking at the broader category of SUV's that don't need to climb mountains, the only distinguishing characteristic is its oddball looks and fruity coloring.
And that is why this FJ will sell, to image-conscious middle-aged soccer-parents.
And why concentrate on back seat room for what is (obstensibly) an off-road tool? If I'm in that market for a small fun 4x4, I want good room for 2 adults and plenty of cargo room for camping.
If you're only hauling 2 folks, the FJ would have a big advantage there.
If you're worried about rear seat room, how much room do you have left over for gear (for 4???) in the back of the Wrangler?
And what about payload capacity (over 1300#'s in the FJ vs. 800 in the Wrangler) or towing (5000#'s vs. 2000#'s).
Why the need to constantly deride the FJ? One can just as easily take it into their head and chew up ANY CAR ON THE MARKET if they desire. What's the point? Ok, you don't like the FJ. Fine. Nobodies trying to FORCE you to like the FJ.
You don't like the FJ because it sells to image-conscious buyers? Are you saying that a Wrangler DOESN'T sell to image-conscious buyers? What???
Here are two possible scenarios. See the Nissan Xterra and see the Prius.
When the Xterra first came out it really was a cutesy SUV for non-SUVer's. But over 5 yrs it evolved to a better than competent offroading vehicle. Nothing is ever carved in stone, it's always dynamic.
In Fall 2003 Toyota launched the Gen2 Prius and estimated it would sell 35000 units.. demand skyrocketed and they realized that they could sell 3 times that many. So they did. Toyota doesn't set itself up to fail. It takes small steps, gauges reactions, adjusts and moves forward. With only 50K units for this year it's very little risk to a company that size. However if it's a raging success then production could double as the vehicle stands right now. If sales are hot then warm then so-so then like the Xterra it may be modified to suit other demands. It's always interesting to see how things develop.
Any anti-FJ posts reflect the fact that Toyota went with image over function, exterior and interior, and that is ultimately going to hurt them as a brand.
If they sell all that they make then this is not true. If sales stagnate then they will just have to adjust to meet demand in the way the Xterra did. It's just business. There's nothing emotional about it.
I'd bet that Toyota's Marketing did their homework and found that the greatest profit was in a vehicle that was capable ( maybe not the most ), comfortable to drive and had 'Look-at-me-styling'. It seems that on initial reactions they have nailed it squarely.
Incorrect. I've sat in the back seat of an FJ while on the road, there is surprising room. The thing that is easy to miss (if perhaps your goal is to bash the FJ), is that the front is very roomy, I was very surprised by how far I moved the drivers seat forward when driving it. So, yesterday you claim that FJ cost the same as a lexus Rx330, which is incorrect, today it has the same size backseat as a wrangler, also incorrect. Tomorrow you can tell us that the FJ causes cancer. You don't work for Nissan by any chance do you? Seems like the FJ is a personal insult to you.
Try it, you'll be surprised. Read Motortrend's comparison of the FJ/Xterra/H3/Liberty: FJ comes out on top, and they rave about its ride both on and off road, beating their 2006 SUV of the year.
Look, I won't argue that the FJ is not optimal for people who never go offroad, but for those that do the fact is clear that it is a solid, well made, fun to drive machine.
.
Now, I do wish the FJ had bigger back windows. That's my biggest sticking point. But wow, it still blows me away how well it drives, both the MT & the AT, that is what will probably tip me over the edge & convince me to get one.
For the record, I LIKE the Xterra (bet you do too), and would probably buy one if it was made by Toyota
Absolutely loved it!!!! So much better looking in person -- I mean, I was thinking that I would not like it at all. Better than anything else out there in its class. And unlike the "PTA and Soccer Momm Approved" H3 it has acceleration which is better than a school bus. H3s are horribly anemic, even with the manual transmission. Plus it is a Toyota and it is built in Japan!!!
!!!
???
See what you say when those bumpers fall off.
You could say the same thing about the H3, its really not saying much to judge by impulse buyers.
Toyota should have done some more homework, lost that ridiculous c-pillar, fixed the turning radius, upgraded the cheesy interior and bumpers, and offered some non-fruit-loop colors.
They didn't., they aimed the FJ at "look-at-me-types" (point 1) and ultimately thats going to hurt their reputation. (point 2). Youre going to see the smurf-blue FJ in repair shops, youre going to see the cheese-yellow FJ in used car lots, youre going to see the radish-purple FJ driven by soccer-parents, and youre going to point, and laugh. :shades:
With that said, I was encouraged to hear about the new FJC...but in my opinion if you want to do serious offroad (I do), the Rubicon trail included, nothing beats solid axles front and rear. You gain serious articulation increases with a quick-disconnect swaybar and think of trail repairs on IFS. The original FJ40 had solid axles; The FJC missed this "carryover". Jeep has never forgotten this on their offroad toys. (I'll give up a bit of the car feel on the street).
Don't get me wrong, the FJC should be quite capable offroad, but no more so than my '97 4runner with 2.5 inches of lift, 32" MTRs and an aftermarket locker. I don't need 240 HP in low range while offroading.
The FJC shares the same front suspension as the Tacoma and 4runner. The '06 4runner is very close in capability (except for some entry/departure angles, a small lift and an aftermarket locker) and provides additional features such as more comfort, more space, off-road downhill assist, uphill assist, more standard saftey features, 4 doors for access,etc.
While I am VERY tempted to get an FJC, and I really like it, I'll keep the 4runner for the hauling and camping (space) and the Wrangler as an tough-to-beat serious offroad toy for the trails you can hardly walk. Had Toyota dropped a solid axle up front in the FJC I'd have one vehicle to do both, too bad. (I'm not interested in a solid axle conversion on a new vehicle)
My last piece of input after nearly 20 years of offroad experience..if you really plan on doing serious offroading in the FJC, get the automatic! I've owned both M and Auto. Trust me, when you have to stop and stop while going up steep inclines made of boulders (and try them wet!), you'll want the auto (all serious offroaders do, don't be fooled). Try leaning out the door to see the trail, steer and start a manual tranny on a 60-70 degree incline (it can be done, but you get the point). Then throw winching in the mix. AND go low on the axle gear ratio if you can, you'll need it to compensate for those bigger tires and for low speed crawling.
There is lots of vibrant and good discussion on this forum. He who buys the vehicle that fits their needs (financial and otherwise), and they like to look at and drive....WINS...it's just that simple.
Buy it if you like it.
Let me make sure I understand your posts.
1. First the FJ is not suitable for any kind of off road work, in fact it likely would get stuck in a mud puddle at the kids soccer game.
2. There is absolutely no utility in the design of the FJ, an MR 2 has more passenger room and comfort.
3. The FJ is cheaply made and likely will drop pieces of itself in the first heavy rain.
4. Therefore any purchase is made purely on looks and this car looks “cute”
Did I miss anything or does that sum up your hatred of the FJ? If I did cover it all you can kindly post elsewhere. Your continued “FJ sucks” posts are becoming trite and passé. :P
Well, apart from the back windows, everything you are compaining about (that isn't wrong) boils down to you not liking the way it looks. So, is someone who seems to obsessively hate a vehicle based on its looks somehow less pathetic than someone who buys it only for that reason? Just asking.
Oh, BTW, the FJ comes in silver & black, not sure if those are in your fruit loop bowl, but can't find them in mine.
Well you do have one pov. It probably isnt accurate but it's one.
Chill and enjoy life is great - without bashing everyone else.
The back windows, c-pillar, bumpers, and interior don't just look cheaply made and poorly designed; they are.
The silver FJ is tri-colored mess; black accents, white topping, silver body. The black FJ is tri-colored mess ; silver accents, white topping, black body. Better than smurfette-blue or taxi-yellow, but still multi-hued and "showy". What I dislike are vehicles that are made (and bought) for their "showy" looks, a once-great manufacturer wasting an opportunity by appealing to the lowest common denominator of impulse buying :lemon:
A 4*4 Mini.
While we're exploring both the up- and downsides of the this vehicle, if you've already decided that you hate this vehicle and aren't interested in buying it, then you're probably in the wrong discussion, and will probably find more productive conversation in topics about vehicles that DO interest you.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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And it probably has more legroom than the FJ, I just read this review of the FJ in todays Newsday:
http://www.amny.com/news/columnists/ny-sstom074691460apr07,0,5295890.column
"The FJ is 5 inches longer than the Xterra and 9 inches longer than a Liberty, yet the FJ offers the least amount of rear-seat legroom."
What were they thinking? LoL
I honestly feel Toyota made this vehicle as comfortable as possible without leaving the appearance too far from the FJ40's. Are there things I would change if I was designing it for myself? Yes. Did they do a good job of building it to cover the wide range of buyers and make the majority happy? Yes.
If you get the opportunity to drive one, take it. Especially if it is off-road. After driving one for a few days you get used to the above average blind spots and it is no where near as big an issue as many are making it out to be.
DRIVE one and you might change your mind, but if you dont thats cool too.
apparently thigs like running boards, roof rack, floor mats, wheel cover, etc, are not included. so we called back to the first dealer and they had already sold the 2x4.
Moral of the story, only buy what you can see, and unless you are willing to wait for months, take the first one you can live with.
So far the Hummer 3 is ahead of the FJ in sales. H3 sold 4559 in March the FJ sold 2784. I am with those that are disappointed again with Toyota. Having owned an early FJ40 I expected a more substantial vehicle using the FJ nameplate. No big deal I can buy a used FJ40 and fix it up for a lot less than $30k. The trick is finding one that is not rusted out.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Bearing in mind that the FJ arrived in the dealerships March 27th this is a bit deceptive. Curious what you mean by "more substantial" vehicle? I've driven a couple of FJs on test drives (and then bought one configured as I wanted yesterday), and it seems to me that it is an extremely solid & well made vehicle, drives well on road and should drive well off road.
All that said, my use of the word substantial, would be for Toyota to make improvements on the original FJ40. Taking into consideration the FJ was built primarily for off-road use, I will be surprised if the current FJ will hold up to the abuse that the early FJ vehicles would handle. Time will tell. I guess we all get softer with age. That includes our vehicles. Maybe our local dealer will let me run one through a few of our San Diego back country trails.
Now, as much as I enjoyed having an FJ40 when I was 20, it wouldn't suit me now. The new version does. Don't get me wrong, it is far from perfect, but there isn't anything else sold today that would come as close to what I want as it does - at least nothing else I could afford.