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another dealer, Peruzzi Toyota of Hatfield, PA, is advertising 2 ($38,000 and $39,000).
Private seller offering the truck at $39,900.
Alpha Leasing on the other hand is offering 2 ($23,500 and $25,000).
if demand is such that they are going for $10k over invoice, i got to get into the dealership business.
someone ate toyota corporate ought to put an end to this crap.
bottom line is production of 46,000 vehicles in 2007 is only bound by demand for the 4.0 liter powerplant which is shared throughout the toyota family. I believe toyota corp likes to make money so i expect they will stick to their demographic and pump out more product as long as the powerplants are available to meet 2007 demand based in analysis of inventory turn for all 2007 models based on the 4.0 liter. anyhow, 46,000 units is roughly 25 FJs per dealer in 2007. so i figure dealers who care less for their customer base are looking for an easy 1.75+ million over invoice from their 25 2007 FJs.
i think there's more money to to be made by working lean. I feed my supply chain (toyota corp) increased demand resulting from my competitive advantage. I build goodwill with; i. my supplier - which helps improve in the quality (color and option availability) and timeliness of my inventory, and ii. my customer base - via word of mouth reputation which can do one of 2 things; 1) hurt me or 2) stimulate cash sales as well as my financing business. (Like most financing operations, the stronger the originations the more attractive your cost structure becomes)
MSRP is suggested for a reason.
Let's face it, anyone smart enough to read an online forum (like this one) is also smart enough to figure out what the going prices are. Many dealerships that post prices online are already selling at or below MSRP. If you fail at that, try the new auto service at pricegrabber or simply spend $20 and do a reverse auction at mycar.
Unfortunately, most stealerships are still only getting models that MSRP in the upper 20's (plus) and at those (same) prices it just makes more sense to get a mid grade 4Runner... Given the FJ design/value short falls, it is only a matter of time before it will be selling at or below invoice. If you want one and you are not impulsive, just give it a few more months!
but abnormalbraindrainer also does not know what he is talking about as no dealer will be at invoice on the FJ this year. I already have my whole years supply sold at msrp and would love to get another 50,000 units to the us now. Don't listen to the haters every word but do be a smart buyer and look to a dealer that does not charge over msrp.
i see an awful lot of v8 4runners on lots. are they allocating more of the 4litres to the fj because of demand they are seeing? I expect that 46,000 number will be raised.
Everyone knows that demand for foreign brands is much higher in the larger cities and those same vehicles are much harder to move in the middle states or smaller places. Driving 100 miles will save you thousands and spare you having to deal with.... enough said!
Dreasdad, were are you? We want to know where NOT to shop!
unless i find a toy dealer who wants to play lets make you a good deal I will go with the 2007 Wrangler Unlimited. The new convertible hard top is pretty cool - it also has solid axles.
The premium low class toy dealerships want for the FJ pays me $1250 per month to wait until fall to buy 2007 unlimited rubicon.
I presonally like the Saab 9-5 best of all. Still feels "Swedish" enough. And the Volvo 80/90 series is superb as well - and all four don't have that cookie-cutter Lexus/Accura blandness to them.
Or she could just get a RX-8 and laugh like a little schoolgirl as she revs it up like a motorcycle and zooms around town. (car that impressed me the most for $25-30K)
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=201996898
I just did a search within 50 miles of me for a Lucerne with a V8 in it. Let someone else eat the depreciation.
If you can wait for the 2007s in 4 months, it'll drop to 22-24K.
Oh - they make it with a bench seat option as well - I like it much better than the 5-person layout - feels more open up front and the traction control isn't a button on the dash. It's on the end of the transmission lever(it's on the collumn and not in the center stack).
Highlights:
4 speed trans and the wide torque range finally FINALLY are a proper match. The magnetic ride is the real gem - it's a Caddy suspension. No more lurching, no more torque-steer, no more wabbling in turns - all electronically controlled. And it's astounding. If GM put this into every car they sell, it would revitalize them instantly.
It's huge - like an older Mercedes E420 LWB. But it's also as tight and poised as one. It drives a full size smaller.
I had no issues what I paid for mine, my vin ends in 4 digits so I received one under 2000 maybe they were nice to the first 2000.
FJ Pros over Jeep:
Better ride on road
Fun to drive
Less noise
Less rattles
More power
More storage with seats down
Better towing then Jeep
Ground clearance
Lots of rock protection under the vehicle
Off road in Az (Apache Junction area)very good
FJ Cons:
High Test Fuel (why Toyota?)
Roof Rack noise (excessive)
Cross winds not stable
Plastic all over
Poor views (including front)
Headlights do not auto turn off (or buzz)they just stay on
No center console
Cheap arm rests
No leather
Roof paint-chips very easy
Very poor rear seating (this is a 3 person vehicle at best)
Poor internal storage
Its as if they are trying to appeal to off roaders and folks that love big boom boxes. I think they have a good base 4X4 vehicle, but need to make a decision is it a FJ or a Fake Jeep to be used for cruising the BLVD.
The FJ is a nice to have 4x4 but I'm not selling my Jeep.
They have a lot more work to do, look for the price to drop and add features ...soon.
This is no LC, 4Runner, Highlander, etc. It is not a family SUV, it is somewhat below an Xterra in over all performance and utility. I would rate it a C+
Finally my teen age girls love it and love to drive it. What can I say? :-)
Jeep Sahara Pros:
Better off road then FJ...yes better
Reg. Fuel
Leather
Plenty of torque
Stable off road
Proven off road
Better views every direction
Parking
Jeep Sahara Cons:
Too many squeaks for 56k miles
Poor over all maint. record
Performance is much less than FJ
Stock tires ( I have BFG now)
On road needs improvement
Summary: if it was just me going off road I would take the Jeep every time - With a friend take a FJ as you will need your friend to guide you while off roading due to poor viewing. Jeep is just a much better off road friendly vehicle (solid axles, roof off, better views, better turning ratio, now if they could just make it so it had Toyota quality!)
It is bad enough that many Toy vehicles require less practical options like sunroofs in order to get more desirable ones like side curtains. Frankly, this offering could be better thought out. If it was, it would have longer staying power. However, as is, it will not eclipse the Xterra & Jeep offerings.
Personally, I think that a vehicle equiped as the current FJ'07 should sell for at least $5k less than a 4Runner in order to entice some of us. Of course that would cannabalize 4Runner sales. At least it must sell under Xterra prices because it offers less content...
My $0.02.
I was going to sell my Tundra 4x4 but I cannot make up my mind. The Tundra has plenty of power, great visability, comfort, leather, nice stereo BUT it guzzles gas [12/14 mpg. I have to admit I prefer driving the Tundra and my wife the FJ. The mileage of the FJ is creeping up. I'm now getting almost 18mpg on regular.
My wife and I want a good do anything go anywhere ute with manual tranny. we like the fj but the price issues with the dealerships and the fact that there is difficult for the kids to get to the bank window (the one that won't go down) is making the 2007 wrangler unlimited more and more attractive.
They can't. Toyota has nothing to do with local sales. It is an auto manufacturer only. It is not a retailer of auto's.
Ford tried local auto retailing as an experiment and it was a failure so they got out.
More importantly though... it's the American way of doing business. Wide screen plasma TV's, early PC's, Xboxes, etc, etc, etc. In the end the market will determine the correct price level.
If someone wants to pay $35,000+ for this vehicle why is that bad? True they are taking away the opportunity of you buying it just over invoice but that was that buyers choice. He could have passed. Lots of people do.
Would you like it if some huge international conglomerate came to you and said 'Listen we know that you sell 150 units a month but look at Longo Toyota in CA. They succeed in selling at or near invoice and they do 2500 units a month. Now Mr Smalltown Toyota store. You must sell the same way Longo does.'
Your reply to the knee-breakers at Huge International Auto Maker is?
Here is another consideration you have to look at. What if that one store asking $5000 over sticker doesn't want to sell it? :surprise: Hmmmm. What if it's there to generate traffic and bring in the curious who might stumble on a Camry or a Taco or a RAV or all three. Now this one 'Not for Sale' FJ has generated 3 other sales.
The stores all know how many they will have for the rest of the year. Sell this one and it's gone until June or July lets say. Why sell it until the next one is in sight. That is unless someone demands to buy it and demands to pay the $5000 addendum. That's business.
MSRP is suggested for a reason.
Good in theory and it does work on volume vehicles; c.f. Longo in CA and Laurel CarMax in MD. However actual facts set in as I noted above. If you sell 'lean' on the FJ then you gain nothing. Sell it for invoice and you will wait 4 wekks for your next one. The guy across town sells it for $1500 over sticker and he also has to wait four weeks for his next one.
The benefit to you of selling the FJ 'lean' is????
Now consider this scenario.
YOu have one and do a nice person a favor and sell it at $100 above invoice. 3 more serious buyers come in to see it/test it and you say..."Sorry sold, come back another time". the next day a wealthy buyer with whom you've done lots of business over the years comes in and want's an FJ for his son's graduation ...NOW!! ..."Sorry sold, come back another time". Etc, etc, etc. The issue is more complicated than just what is the price.
The benefit seems pretty clear: you are driving sales (volume) away and they end up in other brands... thus, reducing market share... decreasing economies of scale... etc. Does this sound like the GM story that did not deliver value to enough of its customer base. If you want to make more money/profit, you will have to work on q*p and focusing on p is not always the answer...
Sure, some will not see (m)any short term benefits from providing true value but over the longer term this type of bull will drive away every potential repeat buyer. It is a well know truism that it is much cheaper to satisfy the current customer than to earn a new one! Remember that some firms would like to stay in business for a long time instead of focusing on a single and final sale today.
Do you have the foresight to see those benefits? But as you point out, we are free to make choices. Welcome to America!
Ford tried local auto retailing as an experiment and it was a failure so they got out.
"In 40 states car manufacturers may not bypass the middleman to sell cars directly to the public....In Texas, for example, state regulators ruled that, because Ford's used-car Web site included price, Ford was illegally engaged in the direct sale of cars. The state threatened Texas dealerships that had participated in Ford's program with a $10,000-per-day fine."
This is from a 2000 report, and Ford lost their appeal in Texas (link).
Some say the American way would be to let consumers buy cars at Wal-Mart and Kmart. :shades:
Steve, Host
There is no sales volume on this vehicle. It's one a month unless you happen to run/own a mega store and in these cases it's still just a pimple in sales volume.
Then there is a whole 'nother group of people looking over the shoulder of the GM or owner. His bankers and backers. If they see 'Crosstown' Toyota offering its one FJ at MSRP or with a $1500 addendum then they are going to be asking 'Why aren't you also?' 'Why should we be lending money to someone who wont try to make money?'
The biggest problem though as I noted before is if you sell it and it's gone it's impossible to generate any more sales. No one can see it or test it.
Toy marketing is not that hot: they play games with option bundling that often yield less than competitive pricing. Those procedures often drive more savvy buyers away too. Can we buy a stripped FJ at this time? Nope, because loading options loads profits: the dealers and the automaker are both trying squeeze more profits...
HOST is correct that franchise laws forbid the sale of vehicles directly to the public in the majority of the states. That is why many online models have failed to succeed: online sales have to typically (still) go through a dealer curbing significant degree of completion.
However, there is nothing stopping a buyer from buying a vehicle out of state... and sometimes out of country! Thousands saved is enough motivation to cover additional transaction cost and effort. Been there... Done that!
I have to disagree. It will be a long time before they break into the truck market with significant sales. Toyota does OK with the Taco, the Tundra is not gaining any ground over GM & Ford. Tundra is about 5% of the full size truck sales so far this year. Until they offer a wider range of full size PU trucks they will be small time. Then to compete with Ford & GM they will have to sell to fleet operators. That is something even Dodge has had difficulty breaking into.
As far as the FJ Cruiser is concerned after seeing it up close, I dislike it even more than in the pictures. To each his own. Hope you enjoy it. Even if I liked it my wife would squelch the deal. She thinks it is hideous and would just as soon have our original FJ40 back. As I mentioned in an earlier post my wife does not like anything Toyota/Lexus has on the market right now except the LX470. She will keep the LS400 until Toyota/Lexus hires some good design people. Or she will switch back to Mercedes.
Tho I can see why someone would not like the FJ. It has some major design flaws. The spare should be mounted lower and the back glass bigger. There should be wrap-around glass in the rear corners. The rear seat should fold flat. The door mirrors......
On the other hand it's nice to drive both on and off road and, compared to my Tundra, mpg is not too bad.
Do you know any other maker that can produce 3, 4 or more models (based on the exact same specs) and pretend that they are in different segments? That economies of scale facet made GM no 1 but its inability to scale down is killing them now...
Agreed, we are about the only country that drive full size PU trucks whether we need them or not. I think it is directly related to MPG. Gas powered small PU trucks are atrocious gas guzzlers for their size. I for one would trade my full size for a smaller diesel PU truck.
There should be wrap-around glass in the rear corners
That was my wife's first comment. How can you see out of that car. Funny though we were along side an orange Scion Xb. I told her maybe that would be a good runabout car. She said it looks like it has great visibility. So maybe we will go test drive the Scion box. You never know what a woman will like.
the industry at large
Toyota trucks usually sell with in 30 days of arriving on the
lot and ford and chevy are doulble that. Beacuse of tariffs Toyota is limited to what they can build here or now in Mexico. Once the san antonio plant is on like 100%
you will see the the sweat on ford and chevy heads double
That is possible. I would not consider a Toyota PU unless they build a midsize PU with a diesel engine. That would be worth the risk to me. I'm still hot about the POC 1994 Toyota PU truck I bought. The difference in lot times has been hashed over in the UAW discussion. I don't consider that a plus for Toyota just a minus for GM & Ford.
Is that supposed to be a good deal? How about $1000 under invoice then I will take the chance. I'm sure you will find a sucker, one born every 37 seconds in this country.
Please post away, but check your email and see the Rules of the Road link on the left. Promoting your dealership is frowned upon. Thanks,
Steve, Host
Unless Toyota learns to buckle under to the big fleet buyers they will not approach GM or Ford sales figures. IMO Dodge has the best diesel truck. They do not sell half of what Ford or GM sells. They are not fleet players. Those are the facts of life with full size truck sales. Some of these fleet buyers could buy Toyota out of their stamp drawer. We shall see how well they do. My understanding is the new plant in San Antonio will only produce 250k vehicles. Ford and GM sold that many by the end of April. Ford and GM have each sold more full size PU trucks than Toyota has sold Camry & Corollas combined. I can fully understand why Toyota wants into the full size truck market. Only time will tell if they got what it takes to make a dent. They will need to make some vast improvements from the current Tundra. Same goes for the Titan from Nissan.
It's an easy transition for them.
I don't think that in Toyota's 5 year plan. But they will make the money Ford is making per F150. Remember the Grand Cheroke that makes over 10K per vehicle for Chrysler? Toyota SUV still no selling as many as Ford's, but much more profitable.
It is all about $$ dude!
Toyota thinks it will sell 9,600,000 vehicles worldwide this year!
For more general talk, try GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda..:Who will sell you your next car? or one of the other discussions in Automotive News & Views.
Steve, Host
That is a lot of vehicles. To stay on the FJ Cruiser. Are they sold anywhere except the US & Canada? Are they built here or Japan?