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Toyota FJ Cruiser

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Comments

  • And if they do bring it back, it's too late by then.

     

       The Sports car market cycle(outside of 'Vette) has only 3-4 years to it, then it's burnt out, then dormant for 4-5 years. 'Yota has clearly missed this cycle.

     

       They WILL build that Lexus supercar!

     

       But they won't "dumb it down" enough to make the Supra live again, in any relevant form.

     

       And it would hurt the Lexus. You can't sell a $100k car, then sell a knock-off with strong performance for $30K. Rich folks ain't havin' it!

     

       Stop talking about Supra! It depresses me!

     

       FJ is uglier than the original, and IT MISSED this SUV cycle (Hummer cycle) too!

     

       All the freaks will buy it for a couple of years, than it's a Celica.

     

       DrFill
  • "FJ is uglier than the original, and IT MISSED this SUV cycle (Hummer cycle) too!"

     

    That comments make me wonder just what you are filled with, fill.

     

    If you havent learned the SUV is not a "cycle" by now, check the numbers.

     

    In fact, the only downside to an SUV is the bulk, which, guess what, Toyota solves with the perfectly proportioned and styled FJ.
  • A. The Super Off-Roader is a "Cycle"

     

       This is not a 4Runner, that can take potholes smoothly, and rock the rocks. This is a dedicated off-road machine. You are playing to a very narrow market. AND only 2-doors! Limits it's versatility.

     

       B. The Element and XTerra didn't fly far.

     

       The Element is high teens! The Xterra sells 60-70k? With 4 doors? This truck is $22-23k all over the place. Over $25k with options!

     

       C. The market is heading DEEP into crossover SUV.

     

       Why NOW release a super off-roader? Timing?

     

       Look up the Toyota RSC from the 2002 Show Circuit. THAT is where the market is headed in 5-7 years.

     

      Release THAT off-roader, today!! I'm all over it!

     

      I'll buy two of those!!

     

      And I guess you haven't seem a hooked-up old-school FJ. Watch MTV's "Pimp My Ride", where they do one up in YELLOW (!), and it looks hard as hell!

     

      It looks like Wrangler's Big Brother, just out of the Slammer, on more 'Roids than Giambi!

     

      Remake THAT FJ!

     

      Toyota can do better.

     

      Make a Supra

     

      Make an RSC.

     

      Remake the FJ PROPERLY.

     

      Thank You.

     

      DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    you've got me grinning here! OK, lessee...

     

    " B. The Element and XTerra didn't fly far."

     

    Both outsold their respective companies' sales projections, right out of the gate. The XTerra continued to do so through most of its first gen model cycle, and Honda had to shift production to build more Elements to meet demand.

     

    But forget Element, it is a car, FJ is a truck. XTerra is the only comparable vehicle out there.

     

    "This truck is $22-23k all over the place. Over $25k with options!"

     

    As will be the FJ, I am sure. And your point is? Perhaps the only other small truck-based SUV you could compare besides the XTerra is the Jeep Liberty, which also costs around this much with the V-6 and 4WD, and that is a V-6 that is seriously down on power compared to the FJ's 4.0

     

    "Why NOW release a super off-roader? Timing?"

     

    NO, because Toyota no longer has one (unless you have $50K to spend on an LC, and REALLY like leather). And it has always been a truck company with some genuine offroad cred. To maintain that, it needs a vehicle like FJ right now.

     

    Oh yeah, and

    "A. The Super Off-Roader is a "Cycle"

      

       This is not a 4Runner, that can take potholes smoothly, and rock the rocks. This is a dedicated off-road machine. You are playing to a very narrow market. AND only 2-doors! Limits it's versatility."

     

    I am not sure where you got the idea that the Super Off Roader, whatever that is, is a cycle. There are as many people today, if not more, as there were 40 years ago that like to go offroad in their trucks. It was never a big portion of the market, but it is a small, strong foundation on which to base a truck like FJ. Add to that a bunch of people who will want one for the snow and only need a smaller vehicle, and a few who just think it looks cool or want an SUV but can't afford a midsize one, and bingo! 50K sales per year easy. IIRC, Toyota is only hoping for 40K in the first year.

     

    And this has all the mechanicals of the Tacoma, so where's the downside for Toyota? It can be brought to market cheaply for them, and as a result can be a niche model rather than one that has to draw down major sales to recoup costs.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • "XTerra is the only comparable vehicle out there."

     

    Well there is also the Kia Sorento.

     

    So the only question is why WOULDNT Toyota (or anyone else) put out a vehicle with only two direct competitors?

     

    Especially when it overtakes both of them in terms of design and quality so much so that in effect it has NO direct competition?

     

    Thanks to the FJ, you wont have to settle or compromise with any of the LAME current crop of SUVs or crossovers out there.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    yeah, I hadn't thought of the Sorento. That one is still frame-based for a while longer, but isn't really in the same category in my mind because it has nothing in the way of offroad-oriented equipment. I don't think it has a two-speed transfer case? It runs on passenger radials. It is designed as a people mover; in fact it has been criticized for its weight because it has been compared to unibody people-movers as its intended competition.

     

    XTerra is solid competition for FJ, Liberty is less so, and to me that seems to be about it, unless you want to toss in Wrangler, which I wouldn't.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • serranotserranot Posts: 113
    "Toyota can do better.

      

      Make a Supra"

     

    Talk about being out of cycle. Two-door sports cars are way out.

     

    Regards,

    Tom
  • Actually the Sorentos are supposed to be pretty good off-road, they do have low-range.

     

    I don't think the FJ would have poor on-road characteristics as doc fill suggests. 4runners ride well, and this is the same frame (alot shorter overall length but not much shorter wheelbase).
  •    #100! WooHoo! Another successful forum from me!

        

       Now.

      

       Who cares about projections!

     

       What are 'Yota's Projections on the FJ?

     

       My point is the market here is very small.

     

       This also includes Wrangler. That is THE competition! Two-door, six cylinders, heritage, off-road (Primary use). Or the old Vehicross.

     

       Element is close but still a secondary competitor because of price and power differences.

        

       Liberty, Sorento and Xterra are 4-doors, so they are in a different class.

     

       Xterra sales are VERY MODEST, for a 4-door SUV with V6 power in an SUV market, with virtually NO competition! Liberty is it.

     

       Sorento doesn't sell. Element same.

     

       And, Nippon, Toyota hasn't had a major off-roader in this class for how many years? I think over the past 10-15 years, they've been doing alright, no?

     

       My point is instead of making an UGLY MISREPRESENTATION of an off-road legend, why not start a new class, car crossovers, with an RSC-type vehicle.

     

       Start turning cars into potential off-roaders (or at least great snow buggies!)!

     

       Instead of following a dying breed, why not just start a new one?

     

       Rav4? Prius? RX? They did pretty well, no?

     

       Start something. New. Hot! Now.

     

       Thank You.

     

       DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    let's not go and get too worked up here! :-)

     

    Wrangler - I tossed it in, but it is an offroad beast with a removable roof. Try driving a Wrangler on a highway trip of more than, say, 3 hours. You will long for death. There are pretty much no vehicles left on the market as punishing as that.

     

    Most of the SUVs nowadays are car-based models ("crossovers") or truck-based models tuned for pavement ride and extended to seat seven. In other words, they are all street-oriented, and/or oversized. With most of them, it has reached the point where their offroad ability s seriously compromised.

     

    FJ is neither street-oriented nor oversized. But unlike Wrangler, it is not so awful on the street that you could not take a highway drive up to the mountains and go skiing. It just skews the balance the other way from everything out there today.

     

    The 2-door vs 4-door distinction is not a meaningful one. Up until 2002 Toyota had a very decent stock offroad vehicle in the 4Runner. XTerra is very much an FJ competitor. Liberty is too, if you believe the hype about a frame INSIDE the unibody. Me, I think you can't have your cake and eat it too, but I have not seen anyone do anything hard-core with a Liberty yet, so I dunno for sure. It has good stats apart from that.

     

    "Who cares about projections!"

     

    Projections matter because they indicate the volume a manufacturer needs to sell to make a decent profit on a particular model. I think Toyota is projecting 40K for FJ in its first year out.

     

    I know that in a bigger-is-better market like the U.S. it is very hard to get your brain around the notion that some people prefer smaller vehicles, and vehicles that are capable in different ways, but not everyone has three kids, two dogs, and a ton of useless crap that they want to tote everywhere. And some people actually need a vehicle that IS rugged, rather than just looking the part. I mean, c'mon doc, think outside the box!

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • "why not start a new class, car crossovers, with an RSC-type vehicle"

     

    New? haha, thats not new, Subaru has been doing that forever. And did you forget the AMC Eagle? (or whatever it was called). No one wants an off-roading car, the whole point (and fun) of an SUV is you are seated nice and high.

     

    As far as the market for 2-door off-road SUVs, it is small because there are none available. The friggin VehiCross sold (and sold out) at an extremely high price, and there are still websites dedicated to it.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    full-size Bronco? What a beast. Great offroader too, if not for being plagued with mechanical problems. And two doors.

     

    You need a frame underneath to absorb major body torquing that happens offroad. Yeah, they can make some pretty stiff unibodies nowadays, but imagine how tweaked it would be in a couple of years...

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • I'm not saying the FJ won't meet 40k in year one. But it will fizzle quickly after the initial hit.

     

       You seem to be all to ready to discount the 4Runner as an off-roader.

     

       You'd be hard pressed to count on one hand the SUVs better off-road than a 4Runner. This 4Runner is EASILY better than the last off-road, or on!

     

       Nymph

       

       I'm not talking about cars with 4WD. I'm talking about truly tricked out off-roaders built out of the car model. There is nothing like the RSC out now. Make an FJ CAR for us to play with.

     

       DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "This 4Runner is EASILY better than the last off-road, or on!"

     

    When was the last time you did any offroading? Where there was actually NO road?

     

    I assure you the first part of your statement is not true.

     

    Lower ground clearance, a HUGE long butt, bad departure angle, heck I clanked the butt end of one on the ground going up a steep driveway, and that was ON PAVEMENT. And HOW many tons does it weigh now????

     

    As for FJ, you you do not properly take into account the price factor, which will ensure it does 40K per year over the model run, I would think. In fact, I think it will do better than 40K for the first couple of years. Perhaps get close to doubling that figure the first year out?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • And more tech help than a Range Rover!

     

      A less impressive departure angle doesn't mean it's a soft-roader.

     

      This 'Runner could clear hills the others couldn't dream of.

     

      And it's weight is still manageable, around 4200 or so.

     

      Picking on the 'Runner to defend this FJ won't get far here.

     

      DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "Picking on the 'Runner to defend this FJ won't get far here."

     

    You have been constantly pushing the assertion that the FJ is totally redundant because of the existence of the 4Runner. All I am saying is no way is that true, for several different reasons.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Some of the main things that excite me about the FJ are it's similarities to the 4runner. But don't forget that it has unique appeal.

     

    First, a similiar frame as the 4runner, with a wheelbase not much shorter. On-road ride should be similiar to the 4runner.

     

    Second, the same powerful 4.0 V6 as the 4runner. That should make the smaller, lighter FJ really move compared to the 4runner.

     

    Third, a smaller package- 11 inches shorter overall. I don't need to seat seven or haul plywood. The 4runners have gotten big. I really like the proportions of the FJ.

     

    And, most importantly, PRICE! 4runners are getting expensive. If I can get the same technology (frame, engine, tranny, 4x4, etc), in a better size for me, and I don't have to pay as much as a 4runner, I'm all for it.
  • I dunno. I think that the 4Runner isn't a super hardcore off roader, but it's hard to find a midsize one of those at a reasonable price.

     

    (LR3 is NOT reasonable, I'm poor!)

     

    It's a pseudo off roader, and Toyota needs it to fight off the Explorers and Trailblazers. I like the 4Runner.

     

    The FJ will take up a different price segment, as well as being a REAL off roader. This isn't a dis on the Runner! They are just completely different SUVs for completely different reasons. The Runner will be softer and bigger, and the FJ will be loads smaller, a bunch more agile, and a bunch cheaper. HOWEVER, I fear that Toyota may be shooting itself in the foot by not offering a four door. I've been in a VehiCross (obscure 2 door. Izusu made it from 99 to 2002) and it was mighty hard to get in and out of. Well, maybe I'm getting old. But let's not mince words. The FJ is a nice alternative to the Wrangler and Xterra <----silly name!! But.... not everyone knows that the Runner is a soft, midsize SUV, so it may cause a little sales friction. Don't get me wrong, they are way different, but the rest of the world who does not care may mix them up. Just my two cents. ---Chris
  • You're screwing up the rotation.

     

      I'd like some smoke too!

     

      The wheelbases are 8-10 inches apart, if memory serves me right, as this is a much shorter vehicle in length. This creates choppiness in ride quality.

     

      This thing will weight not more than 300 lbs less than 4Runner. And a good deal of the cost savings will come in ride quality (and obviously exterior design). Do you think they're putting a lot of effort into making a compliant ride out of this purebred off-roader?

     

      If you can't tell by the design, target audience, sale projections, wheel/tire package, that this thing rides rougher than any 4-door midsize SUV, then

     

      Puff, Puff, Give!

     

      DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    your memory DOESN'T serve you right. The wheelbase is only four inches shorter, it is overall length that is 11 inches shorter, the better to remove that huge butt 4Runner has now.

     

    I would expect it to come in around 500 pounds lighter than a 4x4 V-6 Runner. Maybe more, as it will be more sparsely equipped than the Runner, but probably right around there.

     

    As for the four doors issue, that is nothing to sneeze at. I think it helps that it has two little swing-back half doors like an XtraCab pick-up, but maybe they will add a proper four-door model in the future. I am sure they are afraid of cannabalization from RAV and Highlander sales if they offer a four-door version.

     

    As for the ride, there is a certain amount of compliance in the cab that is provided by anything riding on a full frame underneath, and that combined with car-type (ie NOT leaf spring) suspension in the back and a longish wheelbase for this size of vehicle should make on-pavement ride just fine.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • But with off-road M&S tires, a stiffer suspension, shorter wheelbase, and an anti-plush interior and seats, I wouldn't be using one as a daily driver in NYC, I'll say that.

     

      The 4Runner should be downright plush in comparison. I don't see how you get a "fine" ride quality form this vehicle. Why would it be fine again?

     

      You also forget this is a taller, wider vehicle, so the size it loses in length comes back in width and height.

     

      4Runners are 4100-4500 lbs.

     

      The H2 is well over 3 tons! H3 is supposed to be close to 5000! This is smaller vehicle, but it depends how serious the parts 'Yota uses underneath. And it will use many less tech supporters than 4Runner, so more shafts, levers, and bolts will replace some of the processors and microchips, adding weight.

     

      I doubt ride quality is a high priority in it's production for it's target audience, single males desperate to look cool.

     

      Family vehicles get softer suspensions.

     

      DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    I agree - it is unlikely that ride quality was very high on the priority list in the development of the FJ. But when I say ride will be fine, I mean in the sense that the ride of my 15 year old 4Runner is fine for me, even though many would call it trucky. FJ is a vehicle primarily designed to go offroad, and as such I am not looking for the pillow-like ride of a Camry here. You want a rough highway ride, try taking a trip in my RSX some time. Six hours of that is bearable, but not enjoyable.

     

    I don't know why you would expect the FJ to have stiffer suspension than the 4Runner. Vehicles designed to go offroad usually have longer and softer suspension, so as not to beat you up over realy bad surfaces. In fact, this is why they are always criticized for their on-pavement performance, because that long, soft suspension takes a lot of the "sport" out of the road ride.

     

    As for that whole piece about less tech supports and more levers, I just don't think there is any way you can possibly know that yet, unless you have actually helped design this vehicle, in which case this is an awful lot of contempt considering it's something you had a hand in (!!).

     

    As an assumption or a speculation, I would question it. Most of the running hardware will probably be pulled straight from the 4Runner to keep costs down for Toyota. The suspension will probably be unique and cheapened down for this cheaper model (no levers or microprocessors there), but the powertrain should come over intact from the Tacoma.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • "I doubt ride quality is a high priority in it's production for it's target audience, single males desperate to look cool."

     

    Another stupid comment.

     

    Everyone prefers looking "good" to looking "bad", and than includes the vehicle they happen to be in.

     

    The question is, can the vehicle look good, and also be utilitarian?

     

    The answer is, in terms of most SUV's, NO. Most are too big to be practical, or too car-like to be off-road.

     

    The FJ is both - looks good, adequate cargo space, and is properly proportioned and developed to be useful on and off-road.
  • Is properly proportioned, if you like ugly, and will be useful off-road, but not to the buyer who will spend 99% of the time on-road.

     

       The only stupid comments here are figuring all vehicles get a good ride, regardless of the vehicles mission. Everyone doesn't get good ride quality, especially HD truck drivers.

     

       DrFill
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "Is properly proportioned, if you like ugly, and will be useful off-road, but not to the buyer who will spend 99% of the time on-road."

     

    This highlights the point we have all been making, and you have been missing: the FJ is for folks who will be spending MORE than 1% of their time off the road, or at least on roads mucked up by ice and snow and generally ripped to shreds by the weather (this coming from someone who has driven the roads around Tahoe enough to know that the weather rips them up so bad that potholes are like canyons).

     

    If all you want is a smallish SUV to commute in, with perhaps some AWD for rainy days, RAV4 and Highlander stand ready to answer your call, for prices in and around FJ territory. If you actually need a covered TRUCK, that is when FJ enters the picture.

     

    Oh, and don't forget that when it comes to terms like "ugly", one man's skunk is another man's rose. Looks are very subjective. I happen to think that the FJ as displayed at the auto show is the best-looking of Toyota's SUVs right now.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • "I happen to think that the FJ as displayed at the auto show is the best-looking of Toyota's SUVs right now."

     

    I think its the best-looking of ALL SUVs right now, because of its dimensions + design...but that roof...

     

    The white roof is interesting in theory, but Toyota better make it optional.
  • I don't drive off-road that much; actually, about 1%. But that doesn't mean I should try to take a RAV4 or Highlander out on the beach or down the muddy road to the mountain bike trails, that's for sure. It's just good to know that low-range is there if needed.

     

    I'm of the opinion that the smooth-riding, car-based SUVs are basically tall station wagons. Forget 1%, they are for people who never intend to leave the pavement.

     

    Also, I agree with the others here that like the styling. At the very least, one should be happy that the 'Yota product line won't be so dull/bland looking now.

     

    And define a "good ride." I'm sure the FJ would be comfortable enough to take on 5 hours of highway. I mean, it's not a Wrangler.
  • Bad news, Dr FillItUp. ;) I live in the NYC burbs. I know what it's like around here too, as well as in NYC. In NYC, I'd never drive a 4Runner, especially the current one. It's just too big to fit between the cabs and pedestrians. ;) And considering how big some of the potholes are, both in Manhattan AND up here in Pok-town, a real off-roader might be a good idea. ;)

    Anyway, I like this FJ thing. I'm almost kicking myself for buying a Mazda3 about a year ago, but I needed a car, and that Mazda drives SWEET (Definitly a "Sport" utility car, since it's the 5 door). Small cars are the greatest thing since sliced bread for fun behind the wheel, either on-road or off. Now I find myself wondering if I have it in the budget for a second vehicle (since I'll be paying for the Mazda for quite a while). A 4-by would be REALLY handy up here, especially in the wintertime when dealing with snowbanks seems more like rock climbing. And I wonder if the FJ could fit a plow?
  • I wonder why the announcement was made a full year before production. The new Avalon was announced at the Detroit show and is on sale 6 weeks later. I suppose there is no existing FJ model to hurt sales by buyers waiting. I don't know why they could not bring it out this fall like the olden days when the new models came out in October.
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