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Toyota FJ Cruiser

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Comments

  • ejjejj Posts: 36
    All kinds of people who have no use for this vehicle will buy it. 48 year old guys who want to buy something fun because they have been driving a Camry wagon for ten years, and the car seats are finally in the dump. Sure, the off-road nature of it is great, but really it's the credentials that come with it that most buyers will want. It might even get more people to the dealership--who end up buying something else. With the PT cruiser, the Mini, the Bug, and many others as evidence, you just cant tell what is going to happen with these "statement" cars. Ford packaged up the Thunderbird for just the right affluent American buyer. Lots of hype. Flop. I dunno. I need to see it in real person--in some colors that will look good after 8 years.
  • bpraxisbpraxis Posts: 292
    The T Bird was too expensive with poor reviews from most of the car mags regarding ride quality.

    Mini Stars at $17,000

    PT now starts at $14,000

    Bug starts at $17,000

    TBird starts at $38,000.00, you must be kidding for a Ford??? Very limited market. For that amount of money why not buy a BMW.

    The new FJ will probably start at $22,000.00 for distictive styling and bullitproof Toyota quality. My guess is that they will sell 40,000 per year, maybe more.
  • The new FJ will probably start at $22,000.00 for distictive styling and bullitproof Toyota quality. My guess is that they will sell 40,000 per year, maybe more.

    But $22,000.00 for a real stripper (2wd, no cruise, etc) that you won't ever be able to find at any dealership, or for a decent manual 4x4? Or will that be $25-26?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    my bet is that it starts at $21K, base model 2WD auto, no optional equipment. And knowing Toyota, you will never be able to find this model at dealers. I am sure they will give all the 2WD's the "touring package" with cruise, privacy glass, and power mirrors among other doodads.

    RAV4, which does less sharing with another single model mechanically, starts at $19,xxx and s better equipped in the base model, I believe. But it does have a manual at that price.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gringo1gringo1 Posts: 72
    Toyota stated the FJ price will come between the Rav4 and the 4Runner.

    Per Edmunds:

    Rav4 4x4 MSRP: $21765

    Base V6 4Runner MSRP: $30,070

    Splitting the difference the FJ MSRP: $25915

    A possible starting point for FJ 4x4 without options. Some will think this is high.

    But the main consideration will be whether discounting occurs, not what arbitrary MSRP is.

    Toyota dealers are saying the FJ vehicle will sell for MSRP, and that spikes the true cost to the buyer.

    It also speaks to the point that buyers once at the dealer may choose some other vehicle.

    Here's a boring analysis, but it shows that discounting from MSRP, or not discounting, makes all the difference in vehicle choice and price paid.

    MSRP generates approximately 10% gross profit at a vehicle in this price range, while options generate 20% gross profit. If $2,000 in options are added, the new FJ MSRP would be $27,915. The gross profit on this vehicle sold at MSRP would be $2,900.

    MSRP model pricing becomes moot since Toyota is discounting the 4Runner in my market to $27,885, which is $1,000 over invoice.

    The discounted 4Runner comes in at the same price as the FJ sold at MSRP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    gringo1
  • who buys an FJ over a 4Runner, even money, is not cooking with gas.

    DrFill
  • ejjejj Posts: 36
    You guys have nailed it. Whatever the price is for whatever the equipment level, it will probably be just a bit more than the buyer thought it should be. That is pretty much the formula with every other Toyota truck. There will be no free lunches.
  • havokhavok Posts: 18
    I'm looking forward to this vehicle. A lot can happen in a year, 'though. I've always admired the off-road toyotas I'd see overseas. I hope this turns out like the old FJ40. I want something that I can beat up in Big Bear or Baja and still be able to drive to work everyday. Who needs all those cute creature conveniences that bloat the price of the Taco and 4Runner?
  • mrjjgittesmrjjgittes Posts: 156
    Exactly, and it explains why you see so many other nameplates on pickups on the road. At the top end, a Taco is easily $3-4k more than a new frontier. Whatever you may think of each, that reults in people going to the nissan dealership.
  • 4Runner costs because it's worth.

    DrFill
  • cbr600rrcbr600rr Posts: 19
    I was thrilled to learn that Toyota was making this concept into a production vehicle! I've always loved the old Land Cruisers, but I never considered buying one mainly because I don't want to deal with an old vehicle that needs work. You can find mint restored ones, but they will cost you up to $30k+!

    The FJ Cruiser has everything I want in a 4x4 and more. I've owned a 1995.5 Tacoma (first year) a 1999 Tacoma (V6, xtra cab, TRD), 2000 4Runner (V6, SR5). I owned the 4Runner for the least amount of time. It was off-road worthy since it was a rare 5 spd w/ locking rear diff., but the 183 HP V6 was showing it's age and I did not feel like spending over 2k for a S/C.

    I loved my Tacoma's, but I just don't need the 6' bed and canopy's are a pain. Also the xtra or double cabs kill their off road ability (wheelbase too long). This is really where the FJ wins, 105.9" wheelbase (177.6 overall length). The ground clearance is about the same as the Taco (9.6") which is plenty for most "normal" off roading. I took my first Taco places that I thought for sure would have been reserved for lifted trucks only, it was even more than I needed.

    As for some comparing the FJ to the Nissan Xterra, give me a break! Any serious off roader knows Nissan is behind Toyota. Toyota has been making off road worthy vehicles for a long time, long before Nissan even made an attempt. I test drove a Nissan truck back in 1995 when I bought my first Taco and 5 minutes into the test drive I knew it was a POS. I know they are better now, but still not at the Toyota level. This is why Toyota 4x4's cost more, you get what you pay for and they have a higher re-sale value as well.

    As for looks, that's subjective for sure. At least it's something different. Hasn't everyone noticed how many vehicles are now coming out that are re-imagined versions of much older models? They blend the old with the new. One example is the new Mustang.

    I just hope I can get a color that fits my personality. That blue won't work for me. I don't like flashy colors, except on sports cars and motorcycles.

    What I will be upset about will be the interior if they don't deliver as promised. Supposedly the seats will fold flat for a large sleep area. As for options, I only care about the locker and ABS, the rest I can do w/o.
  • cbr600rrcbr600rr Posts: 19
    I call it "Sahara Dune".

    image
  • gringo1gringo1 Posts: 72
    Are you using photoshop to try these colors?

    Might be better to use the production vehicle and not the CONCEPT vehicle.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,788
    As for some comparing the FJ to the Nissan Xterra, give me a break! Any serious off roader knows Nissan is behind Toyota.

    Ah... what would you say is the FJ Cruiser's most direct competitor in the market? What do you think it will be most often compared with and/or cross-shopped against? A Jeep Wrangler? Give me a break...

    Bob
  • gringo1gringo1 Posts: 72
    Below was pasted from Edmunds today, the 2005 V6 4WD manual Tacoma. Yes, MSRP comes in at $22k but doesn't a person have to add one of the pkgs?

    If yes, that puts Tacoma in the $25-$26k.

    So, I'd be surprised if anyone finds an FJ manual at $23k to their liking, but maybe so.

    I am going to wait and not pay MSRP, another six months into Fall of 2006 is worth $2,000 savings off MSRP to me, and I'll hope to pay just under $25k fully loaded before tax, delivery, etc.

    Cheers,
    Gringo1

    MSRP Invoice
    National Base Price
    $22,245 $20,408
    Select Options
    PT Sport Package #1 w/Tow info $4,565 $3,662
    OG Off-Road Package #1 w/Tow info $4,405 $3,533
    PY Sport Package #1 info $3,915 $3,142
    OC Off-Road Package #1 info $3,755 $3,013
    SJ SR5 Package #5 info $3,675 $2,950
    SN SR5 Package #2 w/Fog info $2,235 $1,788
    CP Convenience Package #1 info $1,460 $1,168
    VD Vehicle Stability Control with Automatic Limited Slip Differential info $950 $817
    VF VSC w/DAC info $800 $688
    WR Sliding Rear Window info $285 $228
  • havokhavok Posts: 18
    I think that really depends. No doubt it will hold its value...always has. But what do you use it for? Everyday driver? Do you have the 4x2 or 4x4? Do you take it to the dirt or powder? Or is this another Susie-soccermom-grocery-getter? So, it all depends on its value to each person/family.
  • mrjjgittesmrjjgittes Posts: 156
    Do more! Try some in various normal colors (black, red, silver, gray, etc) with the "production" model, and dump the white roof! Great work!
  • cbr600rrcbr600rr Posts: 19
    That image was done before the production shots were available. The only difference from that angle is the gas tank cover, the roof rack, and the door handles.

    I may work up some more shots with different colors, but it's time consuming. I had a list of the production colors, but I can't seem to find it.
  • cbr600rrcbr600rr Posts: 19
    The Jeep Wrangler (Rubicon edition) is more off road capable than FJ Cruiser, but at a price (both cost and factors that make it hardly a good daily driver).

    Let's face it, most of use don't need that much in our 4x4's. The FJ is way more practical on road.
  • cbr600rrcbr600rr Posts: 19
    Choose your color - Dark Grey, Forest Green, or my favorite Mocha!

    Disclaimer: These are not production colors!

    image

    image

    image

    This may be the first vehicle that I end up getting painted if I don't like any of the production colors!
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    the green or the gray!

    gringo: "Yes, MSRP comes in at $22k but doesn't a person have to add one of the pkgs?"

    Well you don't have to, but without a package you don't get the offroad suspension or the locking rear diff. If you want those you add about $1680 (retail) for the TRD offroad package. That would make sticker around $23,7 which is right where I was thinking.

    So the FJ the way I would want it configured would come in around $24K. Wait until the end of the year, and dealers will gladly turn that $24K sticker into $21K + fees. NOW you're talking.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bpraxisbpraxis Posts: 292
    With the dollar falling approximately 40% against a basket of world currencies in the last three years the yen dollar relationship will factor in the pricing of the new FJ. Lets hope that the dollar gets stronger for more reasons than buying the FJ.

    My Toyota Celica GT had an MSRP of $19,700.00 when I purchased it in 2000.

    The replacement for the Celica the Scion TC has an MSRP of $16,400.00 loaded. The Scion offers 4 disc brakes standard with 17" alluminum wheels, a larger engine, standard panoramic roof, better stero, etc.... than the Celica.

    My point is that car prices are deflating in many segments because of competition and technology which is making it cheaper to build cars.

    If the dollar appreciates over the next year we could have a wonderful surprise regarding pricing.

    Who would have thought that the Scion TC could have such a low price???
  • You're talking like Toyota has posted $22k on their website or sumpin'!

    Consider yourself fortunate if this thing comes in below $25k with 4wd, stripped.

    $23k 2WD. $25k 4WD

    Take a picture of THAT!

    DrFill
  • FJ will HAVE TO cost less than the current 4Runners. BTW: carmax already sells 4WD 4Runners under $27k.

    It will not matter much what the MSRP is because the FJ street prices will certainly be a few grand less.

    My $0.02
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    I know you decided a long time ago you disliked this thing, and have been waging a little campaign against it ever since. No worries my friend, let's just have a gentleman's wager and leave it at that - my bet is $23,5 sticker for the base 4WD, 6-speed manual.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • gringo1gringo1 Posts: 72
    Yo braindrainer,
    What you wrote is exactly what we should expect over time. I agree.

    Now if we can get the dealers to cave early off MSRP to get this thing buy-able in the $24k range incl. some options.

    The 05 Tacoma took only three months for dealers to come off MSRP, but those first ones that came in were selling at MSRP plus premium.

    Now same dealer is selling 05 Tacoma for $1600 over invoice, which is what, 6 to 7% instead of 10 to 12% profit.
  • cbr600rrcbr600rr Posts: 19
    Low down from the dealer:

    I just started working at a Toyota dealer, I don't have pricing info. yet, but remember people this vehicle may not be out for another year (I am trying to get as much info. as possible).

    For one, no one is sure about the interior. It has not been completed, this is why the close to production model has blacked out windows. The model shown at NAIAS was a concept so the interior shown was the typical 'out there' styling found in most concept vehicles.

    As most of you know it will be available with the same engine as the Tacoma (4.0L V6), not sure if they will offer a 4 cyl.

    I will post more info as it becomes available. I can tell you now that the FJ Cruiser is going to be a hot item. Apparently my dealership already has 30 people in line, many are salespeople! I may even have to wait a while before I get one since I just started an I am at the "bottom" of the list!!! Of course I will wait to get a great deal. Expect to pay top dollar when they first come out. You cannot compare this to the Tacoma since initial production numbers will be much lower, expect to pay sticker or more for the first year unless you really lucky!
  • "I can tell you now that the FJ Cruiser is going to be a hot item"

    Most of here knew that from the moment we saw it, so why is the production going to be low?

    I don't even see it as a niche item, but (finally) as a replacement to the standard car.

    Why drive a Camry in a city like NYC, with all the pothole craters and costly fender-benders when you can drive an FJ without any worries?
  • Dealer dream: "I can tell you now that the FJ Cruiser is going to be a hot item"

    Really? That is what they said about '03 4Runners and by the end of that year they were going almost $2k below invoice. Furthermore, 4Runner is a proven winner and has a huge following. Original FJ was never sold in such huge numbers. Given FJs narrow niche of utilitarian but expensive (more than a sedan), buyers are not going to rush out in droves to buy it.

    Another example: Honda Pilot was very hot for the first 6-8 months but it could be had close to invoice after that.

    People: it will NOT sell for more than the street price of a 4Runner! Not after a couple of months.
  • goltgogoltgo Posts: 54
    I was at Kelly Blue Book's website today looking up a used car price for a friend when I noticed an article on their site about the new FJ located at

    http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/ke.kb.sp?kbb.WA;;WA061;&98296&&fj;autoshow/2005/pc

    The end of the article includes the following statement:

    Pricing: Positioned beneath the RAV4, we expect pricing to start in the high teens.

    I'm not saying I believe that, but I thought I'd post it for the sake of conversation.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    I'd say that Toyota needs to lower the pricing on the Rav4.....

    I believe that the FJ will start around 21k. Just my two cents, though. I mean, they're selling a Scion tC for 17 grand, so you never know....
  • stragerstrager Posts: 308
    at the low end will probably be around $23-25K with Toyota's options game, imo. Figure in 10% additional for taxes, license fees and so on, and that may be out of reach for most Scion customers who are driving $16-17K xBs and tCs.

    The FJ looks "different" and will be in high demand mostly from an older buyer who wants to project a macho, active image, and who has the $$. If I were Toyota, I would have designed the FJ to be about the same size and price as a Scion xB.
  • "The FJ looks "different" and will be in high demand mostly from an older buyer who wants to project a macho, active image, and who has the $$."

    Now thats crazy talk.

    Old guys who want to look "macho" have DOZENS of SUV's out there to choose from.

    "If I were Toyota, I would have designed the FJ to be about the same size and price as a Scion xB."

    More crazy talk, the FJ is a totally different demographic.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    demographics, FJ is a totally different vehicle.

    xB = stylish small-engined urban high-roofed car

    FJ = retro large-engined genuine truck with offroad capability

    And all that extra engineering and hardware is bound to cost some extra dough...

    (that is before we even get into the background that xB is a virtually unmodified JDM Toyota that has been around for years and years to amortize costs, while FJ is all-new)

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bpraxisbpraxis Posts: 292
    Who knows how broad the appeal will be of this vehicle. The fact that the FJ makes a fun styling statement means that sales may exceed our expectations/

    Since the FJ will be produced in Japan we have to be concerned about the Federal Reserve continuing to debase our dollar. If the yen continues to appreciate against the dollar then the price will have to rise to maintain their profit margin.
  • stragerstrager Posts: 308
    >>Old guys who want to look "macho" have DOZENS of SUV's out there to choose from<<

    True, but not as unique looking as the FJ.

    My point was that most, not all people who have the $$$ to buy a FJ will be their 40s and 50s.

    It's well known that VERY few people go offroad with their SUVs. Likewise, most customers won't use the FJ as a truck, they'll use it to go to work and grocery shopping. Toyota could have given the styling of the FJ to a small FWD SUV and priced it like the xB, IF their objective was really to get the Scion customer.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    "Toyota could have given the styling of the FJ to a small FWD SUV and priced it like the xB, IF their objective was really to get the Scion customer."

    Actually, that probably would have made a pretty cool Scion model! Scion could use another car-based SUV besides xB (if that is what xB is, LOL!). I just can't see Scion getting any real trucks however. Toyota has made it pretty clear that the Toyota brand is the one for the trucks.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • bpraxisbpraxis Posts: 292
    amount of money that is sloshing around our economy right now. In the Wall Stree Journal article today the author claims that Americans are wealthier than at the height of the internet boom.

    If people like the FJ there will be plenty of people who can afford it. I happen to think that it is a home run.
  • "most customers won't use the FJ as a truck, they'll use it to go to work and grocery shopping."

    Like I already said, there are already DOZENS of SUV's out there that are good for shopping. The FJ is good for ANYTHING.

    "Toyota could have given the styling of the FJ to a small FWD SUV and priced it like the xB, IF their objective was really to get the Scion customer."

    lol, did you even read what I wrote? Their objective is NOT to get the Scion customer, because its a totally different demographic.
  • cbr600rrcbr600rr Posts: 19
    Someone mentioned the 03 4Runner being hyped to sell huge, but that's only partially true. Any new vehicle, especially a re-design will be hyped since they want to make sales. 4Runner is not a new model (new design) and there was already a million SUV's to choose from.

    The FJ Cruiser is like nothing else, part old and part new. There is really nothing to compare it to. I would guess Toyota is being conservative with the first year and will increase production if the initial demand is high. Like I said before, dealers already have deposits and long waiting lists and it's not due out for a year!
  • gringo1gringo1 Posts: 72
    "Since the FJ will be produced in Japan"

    Can you dbl-check that?

    Toyota was saying California would be site of production.
  • "The FJ Cruiser is like nothing else, part old and part new. There is really nothing to compare it to. I would guess Toyota is being conservative with the first year and will increase production if the initial demand is high. Like I said before, dealers already have deposits and long waiting lists and it's not due out for a year!"

    Exactly. The FJ is like a combination of the new Hummer H3, which is more off-road, and the Kia Sorento, which is more pedestrian. Thats its competition.
  • stragerstrager Posts: 308
    >>"lol, did you even read what I wrote? Their objective is NOT to get the Scion customer, because its a totally different demographic"<< Please read this article, one of several that I have read about Scion customers and the FJ: <a href="http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0502/10/C07-85677.htm" target=_blank>http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0502/10/C07-85677.htm

    OT: While your enthusiasm for the FJ is understandable, there is no need to call other points of view as "crazy talk" as you said earlier, or questioning whether I have even read what you seem to feel is your 100% correct authoritative post.
  • Strager:

    "Toyota Motor Co.p. hopes the new FJ Cruiser, a boxy, two-door sport utility vehicle with room for five, will attract young buyers of its hip Scion brand when they're ready to trade up."

    Key words being "when they're ready to trade up". In other words, "when they are ready" to fit into the FJ demographic, because the potential Scion buyer is NOT the potential FJ customer.

    "Crazy Talk" just means "uninformed opinion", for example stating that the FJ will be bought for the "macho" image it projects...
  • havokhavok Posts: 18
    No offense to anyone, but I am not buying this if it's made in Fremont or Mexico. Plenty of people will still buy because of the Toyota name, but Toyota 4x4s earned their reputation from models made in Japan. Ever since they started buliding Tacos in the US they've gone to h**l. Still O.K. but not the bulletproof SR5s from the past. When 4Runners, LandCruisers, (future)Supras, and Lexus move over to US facilities beware. . .the Apocalypse is upon us!
  • mrjjgittesmrjjgittes Posts: 156
    Ticking engines and leaking cabs in the new Taco. Disappointing for even a cheap car, completely ridiculous for a $25-30k redisgned pickup. You may be right, unfortunately.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    over the last couple of years about Toyota's new 4L V-6 "ticking". I wonder just how loud this ticking is. These same complaints surfaced in the earliest days of the redesigned-for-'03 4Runner, and I am not sure they were ever laid to rest. Maybe it is just normal.

    As for leaky cabs, do tell. Is it just the access cabs, or even D-cabs and regular cabs? I bet it is the access cabs only - I didn't like the rattling rear half-doors when I test drove one.

    It makes sense for Toyota to build the FJ in Fremont, given that the Tacoma which shares so much with it is also built there. Wonder when the day will come when they produce 4Runners there too. It just depends on how much of the plant's production capacity GM wants to use.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • togloondatogloonda Posts: 16
    I hope it does NOT come with a center console. Those things get in the way of large people like myself.
    I will get one if it does not have an obtrusive console.
  • mrjjgittesmrjjgittes Posts: 156
    Re: leaking cabs on Tacos, the taco foum has a lot of talk about it. I have seen references to floorboard seams that had to be rewelded, windshield problems, and firewall issues. Who knows. But putting your foot down on squishy carpet in a truck that you have not even received the permanent plates for yet must be a royal bummer. Kinda ruins that new car smell too...
  • bpraxisbpraxis Posts: 292
    Did you all see the comment in the popular magazine that the base model will come in less than $20,000?
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