VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

Michaell

breld said:

Got my e-mail yesterday afternoon and have an appointment on the 23rd.

Which dealer are you going to?

McDonald.

Excellent choice. 

breld

Michaell said:

breld said:

Michaell said:

breld said:

Got my e-mail yesterday afternoon and have an appointment on the 23rd.

Which dealer are you going to?

McDonald.

Excellent choice. 

Yeah - there are some truly crummy VW dealers around here, and we've purchased at least one car from a few of them. But we've done three total from McDonald, and it generally is a positive experience. Actually, make that 4 purchases in all from that franchise, including the Mazda3.

Michaell

breld said:

Michaell said:

breld said:

Michaell said:

breld said:

Got my e-mail yesterday afternoon and have an appointment on the 23rd.

Which dealer are you going to?

McDonald.

Excellent choice. 

Yeah - there are some truly crummy VW dealers around here, and we've purchased at least one car from a few of them. But we've done three total from McDonald, and it generally is a positive experience. Actually, make that 4 purchases in all from that franchise, including the Mazda3.

I've done two from McDonald - the '99 New Beetle and my latest Jetta.

henryn

It can be hard to judge what is and what isn't a "good dealership". Back in 2008, we bought a new Passat 2.0T from Archer VW. They had an ad in the newspaper, it was a very good deal, they had the car, they honored the ad price, they didn't even push hard for the extended warranty in the F&I office.

But their service department was the absolute pits. So we shifted to West Houston VW, which had a very, very good service department. They did a good job, they treated us very well, they were always polite, and fair and honest. Everything that the Archer VW service department was not.

Fast forward to October of 2015. The TDI scandal has broken in the news, VW sales have plummeted, and there are some rather spectacular deals to be had. West Houston VW had (on their website) the most spectacular deals of any local dealer, so I went in to talk to them. I expected to be treated courteously and fairly, based on my previous experiences with their service department.

Woah, Nelly! "Crooked" is the only word that comes to mind.

xwesx

I received acceptance today, but I can't get the claims portal to work to set up the appointment.

I'll just have to keep trying. Any movement on yours, Q?

kyfdx

xwesx said:

I received acceptance today, but I can't get the claims portal to work to set up the appointment.

I'll just have to keep trying. Any movement on yours, Q?

You've probably done this, but clear out your cache and browsing history, then try again.

xwesx

Thanks for the tip! I think it was perhaps a site-based error; at least one other user had the same problem this morning as well. I tried again after five minutes, and then after another five, and it worked fine the last round. I was getting error code "9999".

Sadly, the first day of appointment for Anchorage is January 09, and no weekend appointments, so I have to turn it in on a Monday. I scheduled for 1/09 and will just have to take the day off. Hopefully there are no delays related to the inevitable change (increase) in offer amount, as the last flight out to Fairbanks that night is at 1905. They say that it will not take more than a half-hour so I should be able to squeeze it all in, but we all know the old saying about best laid plans.....

I did find this a little amusing (from the portal website):

qbrozen

Nothing on my end

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Nothing on my end

Ack! What gives?!

stickguy

Hey, somebody has to go last, right?

28firefighter

Battle between @qbrozen and I. No offer yet here, either.

I was informed today that apparently they have changed things up a bit. Now there is the 10 day acceptance period for the documents, 10 day approval, and then an additional 10 days for the auditors to review. I'm thinking the audit period was supposed to be random and/or run in parallel with the approval process, but that they are too overwhelmed.

I'll be interested to hear what the judge says at the 12/16 status conference.

28firefighter

I'm officially getting miffed. My BIL uploaded his documents 2 weeks ago and has an offer letter in-hand as of today.

Michaell

Being the data geek that I am, there is a part of me that wants to build a spreadsheet so we can track where everybody is at

Would include the following milestone data items:

Purchase Price
Buy Back Price
Documents submitted date
Documents accepted date
Offer made date
Offer accepted date
Offer validated date
Scheduled buy back date
Potential Profit

Are there any other milestones I'm missing? And, is anyone interested in sharing their data for this exercise?

28firefighter

Michaell said:

Being the data geek that I am, there is a part of me that wants to build a spreadsheet so we can track where everybody is at

Would include the following milestone data items:

Purchase Price
Buy Back Price
Documents submitted date
Documents accepted date
Offer made date
Offer accepted date
Offer validated date
Scheduled buy back date
Potential Profit

Are there any other milestones I'm missing? And, is anyone interested in sharing their data for this exercise?

Someone had that same thought over on another board and there is a massive spreadsheet - so massive and so busy with traffic that it can barely be opened.

I'm happy to give you the specifics though for me.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

Michaell said:

Being the data geek that I am, there is a part of me that wants to build a spreadsheet so we can track where everybody is at

Would include the following milestone data items:

Purchase Price
Buy Back Price
Documents submitted date
Documents accepted date
Offer made date
Offer accepted date
Offer validated date
Scheduled buy back date
Potential Profit

Are there any other milestones I'm missing? And, is anyone interested in sharing their data for this exercise?

Someone had that same thought over on another board and there is a massive spreadsheet - so massive and so busy with traffic that it can barely be opened.

I'm happy to give you the specifics though for me.

This would only have the half dozen or so folks on these boards. Share away, or PM me directly.

Am I missing any relevant data?

henryn

Purchase Price: $14,500 OTD
Buy Back Price: $22,127 estimated via the calculator
Documents submitted date: 9/19/2016
Documents accepted date: 11/14/2014
Offer made date: N/A
Offer accepted date: N/A
Offer validated date: N/A
Scheduled buy back date: N/A
Potential Profit: $7,627

Might want to add the vehicle model and trim level, and whether or not there is a lien.

2013 Passat TDI SE with sunroof, no lien, current mileage 69,200

28firefighter

I'd add vehicle information and mileage

Vehicle: 2013 Audi A3 TDI Premium Plus
Mileage (current): 47,880
Purchase Price: $23,500 (OTD price)
Buy Back Price: $33,387
Documents submitted date: 10/1/2016
Documents accepted date: 11/18/2016
Offer made date: N/A
Offer accepted date: N/A
Offer validated date: N/A
Scheduled buy back date: N/A
Potential Profit: $9,887

Michaell

28firefighter said:

I'd add vehicle information and mileage

Vehicle: 2013 Audi A3 TDI Premium Plus
Mileage (current): 47,880
Purchase Price: $23,500 (OTD price)
Buy Back Price: $33,387
Documents submitted date: 10/1/2016
Documents accepted date: 11/18/2016
Offer made date: N/A
Offer accepted date: N/A
Offer validated date: N/A
Scheduled buy back date: N/A
Potential Profit: $9,887

28firefighter said:

I'd add vehicle information and mileage

Vehicle: 2013 Audi A3 TDI Premium Plus
Mileage (current): 47,880
Purchase Price: $23,500 (OTD price)
Buy Back Price: $33,387
Documents submitted date: 10/1/2016
Documents accepted date: 11/18/2016
Offer made date: N/A
Offer accepted date: N/A
Offer validated date: N/A
Scheduled buy back date: N/A
Potential Profit: $9,887

Thanks!

I'll post my preliminary results in the next post.

Michaell

Here we go ... version 1.0. Have I missed anybody?

xwesx

Maybe include direct costs of ownership (not scientific, here, just what people feel were costs above and beyond had they not purchased it), but I don't think a lien is relevant, since it doesn't affect the buyback amount.

On mine:

Purchase Price: $18,300 (OTD)
Owernship Cost: $1,000
Buyback Price: $27,677
Submitted: 10/13/16
Accepted: 11/14/16
Offer Made: 12/1/16
Offer Accepted: 12/05/16 (when I sent the offer letter back)
Offer Validated: 12/07/16 (when they invited me to schedule)
Scheduled: 01/09/17
Potential Profit: $8,377

xwesx

"Missed anyone?"

I think only @mjfloyd1, as far as those of us who purchased for arbitrage. @andres3 and @stevedebi are also participating, but they're "legitimate" owners.

Michaell

qbrozen

Lien may be relevant regarding delays.

I'm going off memory so rounding some of these off.

submitted 9/25
accepted 11/15
purchase $16400 OTD
buyback $30300 (if full restitution)
costs $1148 (counting here the lost tax credit on the $16400 I would have gotten through trade-in rather than buyback)
profit $12752
miles 33500

stickguy

considering I could have gone and bought the twin to yours, seeing that profit, I am now going to sit in the corner and cry.

mjfloyd1

2013 Passat SE TDI
Submitted 8/14
Accepted 10/14
Offer TBD
Purchase $16995
Buyback $26300 assuming full restitution and putting 5k miles more than original est
Costs lost trade in tax credit $1189
Profit $8116
Miles 19740 at purchase, 30000 at turn in- WOW

corvette

Here's mine:

Vehicle: 2013 JSW DSG w/sunroof, nav, power seat
Mileage: 75,xxx
Purchase Price $16,992.44
Buy Back Price $24,346.73
Documents submitted date 10/5/16 (date I uploaded documents)
Documents accepted date 11/15/16 (date I got email confirming they had all documents)
Offer made date 11/22/16
Offer accepted date 11/29/16
Offer validated date 12/5/16
Scheduled buy back date 12/27/16
Potential Profit $7,354.29 less insurance for four months (approx. $400)

kyfdx

corvette said:

Here's mine:

Vehicle: 2013 JSW DSG w/sunroof, nav, power seat
Mileage: 75,xxx
Purchase Price $16,992.44
Buy Back Price $24,346.73
Documents submitted date 10/5/16 (date I uploaded documents)
Documents accepted date 11/15/16 (date I got email confirming they had all documents)
Offer made date 11/22/16
Offer accepted date 11/29/16
Offer validated date 12/5/16
Scheduled buy back date 12/27/16
Potential Profit $7,354.29 less insurance for four months (approx. $400)

You waited a week to get your offer sent back?

kyfdx

Vehicle: 2013 Audi A3 TDI Premium Plus
Mileage: 99,225 (currently.. 97079 at purchase)
Purchase Price $16,100 OTD
Buy Back Price $25,577
Documents submitted date 09/22/16 (date I uploaded documents)
Documents accepted date 11/14/16 (date I got email confirming they had all documents)
Offer made date 11/27/16
Offer accepted date 11/28/16
Offer validated date 12/5/16
Scheduled buy back date 12/28/16
Potential Profit $9487 (no other costs included in this number.. mostly a wash)

(Sorry, @corvette I cribbed your layout)

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Lien may be relevant regarding delays.

If I had to bet, I'd bet on this.

corvette

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Here's mine:

Vehicle: 2013 JSW DSG w/sunroof, nav, power seat
Mileage: 75,xxx
Purchase Price $16,992.44
Buy Back Price $24,346.73
Documents submitted date 10/5/16 (date I uploaded documents)
Documents accepted date 11/15/16 (date I got email confirming they had all documents)
Offer made date 11/22/16
Offer accepted date 11/29/16
Offer validated date 12/5/16
Scheduled buy back date 12/27/16
Potential Profit $7,354.29 less insurance for four months (approx. $400)

You waited a week to get your offer sent back?

I think I used the date they put on the offer letter, not the date I actually received it.

28firefighter

No lien here AND no offer. I think they're just delayed, period. 

Michaell

xwesx

I have a lien on mine. While I don't have to worry about property taxes, I didn't buy this car in lieu of having another, so all costs are in addition to my normal costs of vehicle operation. I included the gross cost of driving it home, insurance and loan interest for the ownership period, and the miscellaneous expenses related to the winter wheels I fit on it.

Speaking of taxes, though. I'm thinking that our margins count as capital gains. What say you, @breld?

A few things for the spreadsheet:

1. @corvette 's date is 12/27/16....
2. Mileage on my car is 47,374 (current). I'll put about 400 on it to get it to the buyback appointment, so I expect the final mileage to be right at 47,800.
3. I think that @mjfloyd1 's doc dates must be wrong; the portal wasn't open for documents that early, and acceptance didn't happen until after final approval in late October.

qbrozen

Oh and I do have a lien with Toyota Financial

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Oh and I do have a lien with Toyota Financial

That might not help,either. I'm a real Negative Nancy, today.

kyfdx

corvette said:

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Here's mine:

Vehicle: 2013 JSW DSG w/sunroof, nav, power seat
Mileage: 75,xxx
Purchase Price $16,992.44
Buy Back Price $24,346.73
Documents submitted date 10/5/16 (date I uploaded documents)
Documents accepted date 11/15/16 (date I got email confirming they had all documents)
Offer made date 11/22/16
Offer accepted date 11/29/16
Offer validated date 12/5/16
Scheduled buy back date 12/27/16
Potential Profit $7,354.29 less insurance for four months (approx. $400)

You waited a week to get your offer sent back?

I think I used the date they put on the offer letter, not the date I actually received it.

Ah...that makes more sense.

Even though I received my offer on 11/27, it was dated 11/22, as well.

mjfloyd1

I had the 4 green checks on 10/14 and they were determining eligibility. Never heard back but got offer of $27100 ish just this morning. It will be reduced due to mileage but I'm ok with that. 

breld

On tax implications, I'm actually sitting in a continuing education seminar all day with a room full of CPAs, so I'll just pose the question.

My wife, who has the tax education and experience I don't, gave me some document on settlement proceeds but I haven't looked into it too deeply yet.  Here are some of my personal  thoughts and considerations:

1)  Buying and selling cars rarely has tax implications, though normally there is a loss anyway.  Based on the documents, it seems pretty clear that you are merely selling the car to VW.

2)  Part of the buyback price does obviously include a stated restitution amount though, so I could see that portion being subject to tax.

3)  For me personally, I'm going with th concept that any gains on this sale are simply offset by losses on others I've made this year.  That's if push comes to shove and I have to provide a rationale for not including the gain.

breld

I'll provide the details of my purchase later today for the spreadsheet.

stickguy

If VW is not collecting tax info to report to the IRS, it is just another car transaction.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

If VW is not collecting tax info to report to the IRS, it is just another car transaction.

I would be willing to bet good money they're going to be reporting to the IRS...

stickguy

What though? And how? Not something they do today.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

What though? And how? Not something they do today.

My assumption would be to take advantage of any tax benefits they get on the loss they're taking. I'm not a tax expert though. I'm fully expecting to get a 1099 from them.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

stickguy said:

What though? And how? Not something they do today.

My assumption would be to take advantage of any tax benefits they get on the loss they're taking. I'm not a tax expert though. I'm fully expecting to get a 1099 from them.

Which makes pushing the buy back to after the first of the year advantageous, if that's the case.

28firefighter

Michaell said:

28firefighter said:

stickguy said:

What though? And how? Not something they do today.

My assumption would be to take advantage of any tax benefits they get on the loss they're taking. I'm not a tax expert though. I'm fully expecting to get a 1099 from them.

Which makes pushing the buy back to after the first of the year advantageous, if that's the case.

Exactly why I am not super bent out of shape that my offer has not come yet from a timing perspective. I can write-off the sales tax on the purchase on my 2016 taxes and then recognize the sale proceeds in 2017.

I just want some forward progress.

mjfloyd1

OK, how are you guys getting all 7 pages to upload? I've tried an iPhone 7 and an iPad and I can only seem to get 1 page to go to the upload page. I've even asked my 14 year old to help. When I go to camera roll it doesn't offer the "select" photos option

28firefighter

There is an app called TinyScan out there that will let you do a scan batch with multiple pages and compile into one document. Alternatively, use a scanner with a doc feeder.

mjfloyd1

Thanks 28FF. I hope you get your offer soon.

andres3

Michaell said:

Technically the '15 Sport Wagen is a Golf, not a Jetta or JSW. GSW?

Anyway, not rushing to do the paperwork, though I think I'll revisit the website to submit documents today; would like to get it done in January sometime.

Michaell

Here's a good article on the progress (or the lack thereof...)

http://jalopnik.com/owners-are-right-volkswagen-is-missing-its-dieselgate-1789779967