I think DPF is here to stay for now. More injection pressure and more pulses will be required to atomize fuel further than already occurs.
A big issue is fuel quality, or lack of fuel quality. Domestically, the cetane is too low and there are too many aromatic compounds in domestic fuel that contribute to particulate formation. A higher cetane would help reduce particulate as fuel would ignite more readily and burn more cleanly. Removing aromatic compounds would reduce the energy content of the fuel a little, but would help reduce PM formation and some of the other nasties that are formed when aromatic compounds are burned.
DPF requires little or no maintenance as I understand it. A drive at highway speed for several minutes usually does the job of clearing them.
Regardless of who wins the "Most Complicated System" award -
both cars are complex with complex hardware and software systems.
All future cars worth a darn will also be. Saw something a few months ago about a 1400 page owner's manual for a new car - can't find it now though.
The days of lamenting, "Oh Poor Me, My New Car Is SO Complex!!" are, and should be, over.
Cars of the future will be complex. That is not now a negative and never will be. The car companies will have trained technicians at all times, and most of the independent shops will too.
I was wondering when the oil companies/refineries would get around to increasing the diesel supply.
Honda will likely revisit their cancellation of the diesel engine within a year or two. They are hunkering down now given the current market so I do not expect them to do an immediate about face. We may yet see a few more diesel cars in the future, besides VW. :shades:
In terms of the diesel cars, the projected numbers D2 diesel car of the green congress ( PER Exxon Mobil projection of of 6M gal of D2 per day) do NOT convert. Again one can use whatever numbers, but here is a number that does NOT convert/compute: 35 mpg (new 2012 standards) 2M diesels, 12-15k miles per year average@ 35 mpg/ 12k-15k year average =343 - 429 gals per year/365 days per year D2 PER CAR= .94 gal to 1.17 gals per day/6M gal=
6.383 M to 5.13 M diesel cars. LOADS of extra D2 fuel.
ALL is a big word to describe future cars. My main interest in an EV would be the simplicity of a car with a battery, motor and charger. Direct drive NO transmission or $11,000 PSD device. Maybe an electric heat exchanger that cools in the summer and heats in the winter. I could live in So CA without either. The biggest plus would be getting rid of dozens of worthless sensors. Many that are part of the EPA emissions requirement on all fossil fuel engines. They are the problem with all new cars IMO. Many people get tired of taking their cars in for the dealer to reset some POC computer that turns on a light on the dash saying your tires are flat when it was just the Toyota dealer being too lazy to fill the spare with the same pressure as the other four tires.
So I have a slight optimism that we will get back to keeping it simple sometime in the future. It will keep cars on the road longer and be environmentally better all around.
In the mean time I want a DIESEL SUV that will get me close to 30 MPG on the highway. With a sense of having enough steel around me as protection from a crazed eco weinie in a hybrid that has lost control and crashes into me.
In the mean time I want a DIESEL SUV that will get me close to 30 MPG on the highway. With a sense of having enough steel around me as protection from a crazed eco weinie in a hybrid that has lost control and crashes into me.
That SUV already exists and I have one. It is the Jeep Liberty CRD that Daimler-Chrysler sold in 2005 and 2006. When driven judiciously, 30+ MPG on the road is not uncommon. I also understand that the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the V-6 Daimler diesel will get close to 30 MPG.
I looked at the Grand Cherokee and it did not have enough leg room in the second row. I am probably going to get the BMW X5 diesel or the GL320 CDI. We take another couple with us out to the desert quite often and it is a long days drive. I don't like to be cramped, so I don't do that to others. I would like the liberty engine in a Wrangler. Not sure why Jeep did not add that option.
Like I said, the numbers do NOT compute !!! It also is an interesting clue that diesel prices (as well as RUG to PUG) are lock stepped/slam dunk to CLIMB !
Slow news diesel day ! Just did a D2 "winter" fill, 6 gals for 305 miles @ 50 mpg. Must be all that stop and go and winterized fuel ! @ $2.33 it has a tad to go down before it gets back to diesel prices when I bought my 03 TDI new (1.87?) We are getting ripped off, in that a barrel of oil is way cheaper NOW than it was then when diesel fuel was at 1.87 !!! But then we have known this all along.
Opps, I can't even punch the calculator buttons correctly! ( 305/6=50.83333 rather than 50 mpg) Ok, I exaggerated a tad, it is actually closer to 51 mpg.
I now wonder what the mpg figures would be if I got/stayed on the Chevron load (2.39 per rather than the off brand 2.33 per, Chevron claims 50 cetane vs 40-43 for the so called "house brand")
We literally have ARCO/BP stations in every NoCA city and while this might be an exaggeration and in multiple locations. However, perhaps I am not goggling correctly, as they show the closest DIESEL (retail) location 65 miles away.
I printed a list before I took a trip in my MB Cruiser diesel with all the BP/ARCO stations that sold diesel. Now that site seems to be gone. It was prior to the ULSD mandate in 2005. Most ARCO stations do not sell diesel. We only have two that I know of in San DIego. Fortunately they are on my regular path.
Thanks for both the reminder and the heads up. It seems (in the west anyway) that both Chevron and Arco/BP serve up the highest D2 cetane (ratings, i.e., 50/52-53 cetane).
I wondered where you went. Thought maybe you got mugged on the bus going to hear Al Gore at GW meeting. Have they signed you up to sell carbon credits?
I live in Maryland and I would love to see 50+ cetane D2 here. We are lucky if we get 45 cetane. I need to add cetane improver to each tankful of D2 I buy.
... Winter, there a few things CARB and or EPA and or the manufacturers don't want you to know. There are many failing DPF's, many removed, when in burn/clean mode they use much fuel and create NOx, they reduce MPG and increase carbon output even when in spec, they increase purchase and maintenance costs. The systems going down the highway out of spec might be more of a problem than none at all (industry wide). .. ... Do I have a solution ? Well, several companies are starting to offer retro-fit exchange DPF's. These don't require the individual vehicle to have the proper burn/clean mode. Just unfasten a few stainless steel band clamps (after the red light comes on on the dash), drop the DPF at a dealer and pick up your clean filter. These have been cleaned under a much better controlled procedure in a designed facility. .. ... Beyond that I still have to wonder if we had Aveos, Neon, Foci, Jetta, Camry, Accord size vehicles getting seventy MPG with no DPF and no EGR that had say 90 percent less particulate and seventy percent less NOx than 1990 vehicles with much less carbon output than anything today, brought about about by very sophisticated fuel injection, would we not be better off ??? .. ... I want clean air but the CARB regs today are not for internal combustion engines. My opinion is that it is only possible with a major battery breakthrough and solar/wind recharging.
Indeed we can cut our so called "foreign oil" dependency, just by SETTING the goal of 22% passenger diesel fleet and actually letting folks buy passenger diesel products. While I like segments such as Accord,Camry, Malibu, Tarus, etc etc, what person would not mind a choice to get a 20-40% boost in fuel mileage?
here is the eia.gov comic book version (aka, keep the dummies in RUG to PUG)
is that the tree-huggers look like they're in bed with the oil companies.
Some would say that jacking up the U.S. (& Canadian) demand for diesel is a bad thing because there's already plenty of demand for diesel (plus fuel oil & jet A) in the trucking, railroad, marine and airline industries -- gasoline is a waste product from producing the fuel that runs commerce. You can only tweak the percentages of gasoline vs. diesel/kerosine/jet A so much in the refining process. It could be that "Big Oil" isn't interested in increasing demand for practical clean diesel cars in North America.
Oh what a tangled web we weave. . .
In any event, I'd be driving an A3 or BMW with a 1.9 or 2.0 litre diesel today if I could.
Beginning January 1, 2011, the Statewide Truck and Bus rule will require truck owners to install diesel exhaust filters on their rigs, with nearly all vehicles upgraded by 2014. Owners must also replace engines older than the 2010 model year according to a staggered implementation schedule that extends from 2012 to 2022.
I talked to my nephew yesterday at our annual family get together. Last Summer he was in bad shape as his biggest customer filed for bankruptcy under the load of $5 diesel. Now his business is booming again. He has several full time heavy diesel mechanics working in his shop. Most trucking companies are spending money to keep the old trucks running as long as possible. They are not optimistic about the upcoming regulations. The only chance they have at survival is the fact that most drivers are still Union. They are busy lobbying CA State legislators to pressure CARB on upcoming regulations. According to my nephew the regs are totally unrealistic and will send most of the trucking companies into bankruptcy.
He is quite knowledgeable on diesel emissions and says the claims by CARB are based on flawed data. He claims there is no legitimate case of death from diesel emissions. The data is gathered so haphazardly that it is impossible to pin point where the problem lies. He claims we still get a lot of very dirty diesel in spite of the ULSD mandate. So they can put all the expensive emissions devices on a truck and still not get rid of the soot that you see coming from truck exhaust.
Add to that all the trucks coming up from Mexico have very little regulation and they can burn the dirtiest of diesel fuel.
For those that have experienced the smog in San Bernardino. Ever wonder where it comes from. Two big sources. There is a natural valley that carries the pollution from San Pedro/Long Beach harbor right up to the mountains. San Bernardino is a railroad hub with all those locomotives burning the nastiest diesel you can imagine.
Instead of shutting down the shipping and rail industry CARB outlaws selling a diesel Beetle in the state. One equipped with the latest in catalytic converters. A vehicle that uses about half the fossil fuel of a gas Beetle. It also produces about half the CO2.
Is there some reason I should not be anti government regulation?
Well it seems that the new order is to domicile So CA American trucks in Mexico and continue to use the higher sulfur diesel at lower prices !!!
My other take is the one reason the diesel beetle is from banned to limited is because it precisely does what the CARB & EPA says it should do. They really do not want the better results, they just want a Hollywood type illusionary passion play: opiate the masses principle.
So in a pervese way the realities metric out to: 29 mpg is better than 50 mpg. Higher C02 emissions is BETTER than lower C02 emissions. From ZERO to 15 ppm sulfur D2 fuel is worse than RUG to PUG @ 30 ppm. We want it sleezy, at much higher cost, taxation, consumption and emissions !!! Don't forget the more global realities, higher year over year consumption,MORE dependence on foreign oil, especially those hostile to the USA
... There is a saving grace for CARB. They actually put an arrow in the dragon. Seems as they are St George wannabees trying to recover from helping to implement MTBE. Yes, they are now part of the evolutionary process and or events that will make the internal combustion engine become extinct. This may be a good thing. With cheap oil the ancient propulsion instrument might be around for awhile longer. .. ... Next major embarrassment for CARB (after a few hundred million down the drain) the UREA systems will be obsolete before the last truckstop has them installed. That is if Homeland Security does not wake-up first and STOP all those potential point of purchase locations for ammonia. BTW, there is no law that says these truckstops have to sell UREA. Pilot and TA say they will, Flying J went Chapter 11 yesterday.
When I drove, Bingo, Husky & Union 76 were my stops of choice, depending on fuel pricing, convenience &/or food/lodging. They're all gone now, but Flying J filled in for a few of my favorites.
As we know, government for the people and by the people is a myth. Government for a few people and by a few people is the reality. EPA has had it's hands tied by big oil and Congressman John Dingell for years. CARB is like any other governmental agency. They screw up but will not admit that they screw up and continue down the path of ignorance and of stupidity that we all know.
As to diesel fuel, especially the domestic stuff, it is rotten swill. It is dirty and the cetane rating is barely 42 or 43. I am changing the fuel filter on my Jeep Liberty CRD every 10K to 12K miles instead of the called for 24K miles. The filter comes out black, coal black after 10 to 12K miles. I must add additives and cetane improver to make sure my CRD will start in the colder weather and run properly.
As to any form of D2, EPA decided to convert all forms of D2 usage over in steps instead of all at once. That means the trains can still use high sulfur garbage. Look at home #2 heating oil at 5000 ppm of sulfur. ULSD for home heating oil will not be available for another few years. Tell me this is not nuts. I use oil to heat my home and the sulfur laden ash in the heat ex changer really makes a mess. And the Mexican fuel and some of the U.S. drivers who use it, all delightful.
As to the issue of PM (particulate matter) found in diesel exhaust, there are some nasty compounds found in PM called PAH, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. PAH are carcinogenic and caused by the incomplete combustion of aromatic compounds found on fossil fuel. Removal of aromatic compounds in diesel fuel will reduce the amount of PAH and also reduce the amount of PM.
EPA has had it's hands tied by big oil and Congressman John Dingell for years. CARB is like any other governmental agency.
It is no secret that the oil companies have preferred to sell gasoline to the masses for over 100 years. Diesel is the premier product produced from oil. It provides all our major transportation and freight hauling needs. Gas is still the nasty by product. It should be obvious that we are running a surplus of gas with the big price difference. That is unfortunate for the few discriminating drivers such as yourself that are using diesel. I am surprised you do not have a high grade of ULSD available. What state are you in? I was very happy with BP/ARCO ULSD in my two diesel vehicles. I do anticipate owning another diesel in the next year.
The new CARB mandate also includes language that includes trucks and buses that are registered in other states... in essence requiring any truck or bus that enters California to be "2010 legal". The obvious problem with this is, a vehicle is only required to meet the standards in effect in its (model) year of manufacture. You can be sure there will be plenty of lawsuits that will test the legality of retroactive enforcement such as this.
It looks to me like CARB has killed the new truck market in CA. If nothing will be legal but 2010 or later technology, is it even available today? CARB has never been able to enforce out of state emissions in the past. The state is bankrupt from all the foolish programs they have tried to push. I wonder how they plan to enforce inspection on every out of state truck. Not to mention the 1000s of trucks coming up from Mexico loaded with everything from Avocados to Suburbans. CA and their goofy emissions police will be a paper tiger.
... There is really only one way to save California from vehicle emissions. Strong incentives for EV and battery development. Not turning the vehicle industry into (any further) a bureaucratic, mechanical, and financial nightmare. A voluntary, (with incentives), *exchange*, particulate filter, program might help in the interim.
And yet, there is a solution to all of this that is environmentally friendly, low-polluting, and that we have tons of. Plus, it doesn't cost billions to develop, because it already is here.
CNG.
My cousin's family has such a vehicle. It is cleaner than diesel, cheaper per mile, requires no fuel filters or additives or other idiocy, thumbs its nose at CARB, and we can make it or similar compounds artificially if the massive amounts that we have in the U.S. are ever exhausted. No corn gets taken from our markets, no toxic metals are required for energy storage, and no exotic components, either.
Oh - and the car, a CNG Civic, runs, stops, and starts exactly like a normal one. If we converted our gasoline vehicles over to CNG, we would pretty much solve the entire problem in one step. If you really want to get silly, you can always make a CNG hybrid, but the stuff burns so clean as it is, that it really seems pointless.
... I disagree. Most of the problems come from one bottom line. Combustion ! And then you have too many factions trying to control it or think they know what it is. Besides the infrastructure billions you are talking would be far better used for Electric Vehicles.
I like CNG and EV. The problem with both is range. They are both going to be Commuter only vehicles. You would not be able to drive either one any distance without being stuck. There are many places here in the West and especially in the East that do not even have Natural Gas. There is no Natural Gas in my area and I live 2 miles from the center of town. Using PHILL is ideal for a home owner that has a good NG supply. CNG or EV is not practical for apartments, condos and street parkers. The real issue with CNG is the tank. It takes up a lot more room and needs expensive periodic inspections and maintenance. With less than 200 mile city range the Civic GX would be near impossible to use on a vacation. For some reason the GX is about $3k more than the Civic Hybrid and about $6k over the top of the line Civic EX. And at this time there are no practical EVs for sale in the USA.
I personally think the long term answer will be diesel burning fuel made from algae. One process already demonstrated that can produce 35k+ gallons per year on an acre of desert. Corn ethanol is about 18 gallons per acre. Palm diesel is about 600 gallons per acre.
..."I personally think the long term answer will be diesel burning fuel made from"...
Your ALGAE example is an absolute slam dunk no brainer !!! This is probably why it has literally been ignored and actually vilified. Algae is literally one of the most abundant photosynthesis mechanism on the planet. There is almost no place that it will not grow !! One component of its life cycle (PLEASE PEOPLE GO BACK TO HIGH SCHOOL BIOLOGY or a gate program middle school biology class) IS C02 !!!!!! In addition to producing FOOD, ALGAE produces OXYGEN !!! It can also be adapted to work in sewer processing plants. So who ever sees an end to that process and service?
Also effective immediately, if the eco [non-permissible content removed] believes their own rhetoric, it should be R & D'd and adapted to ongoing "waste" producing processes '. So again, who ever sees an end to certain processes and services, i.e., food production.
Indeed !!! How would they enforce 49 state legal passenger car entry? Exit!?
Enforcement is literally idiotic: in terms of the everyday practicality.
President Obama would put the kibosh on it toot sweet ! Keep in mind how many UNION folks it would idle if the fed were to limit ship entry/exit using bunker fuel (upwards of 5,000 ppm sulfur) ! The classic democratic manufacturing states have systematically(over generations) gotten rid of domestic manufacturing capability knowing that foreign produced goods would use these vehicles and logistics systems.
Ah, I should have remembered that. You mentioned it several times in the Liberty CRD threads. We have had relatively clean diesel since the 1990s, when CARB mandated 130 PPM sulfur diesel. Something like that. The Cetane number seems more difficult to pin point. I just remember BP when they first started pushing their ECD-1 diesel in 2000. It was made available in So CA ARCO stations. It was the earliest 15 PPM sulfur diesel I know of.
BP began marketing the cleaner burning fuel in December of 1999 and has been selling it through local and regional resellers and distributors. BP currently supplies about 20 % of the state's 220,000 barrel per day diesel demand, according to California Energy Commission statistics.
This CARB file shows BP ECD-1 testing at Cetane 51.3
I like CNG and EV. The problem with both is range. They are both going to be Commuter only vehicles. You would not be able to drive either one any distance without being stuck. **** Obviously the existing infrastructure has to be expanded. But every single municipality that uses CNG vehicles is required by law to sell the CNG to the public. So there almost always *is* a filling station in every major city. Los Angeles has several dozen. the Civic in question comes with a GPS pre-programmed with every station in the U.S. as well.
http://www.cngprices.com/ That's a lot of stations, actually. It's small but is viable and isn't any more difficult to implement than propane, which is bought and sold darn near everywhere.
Also, on range, CNG is a quick 5-6 minute fill at a station and you're good for 200-250 miles! At whatever speed a normal Civic will go. That's not even close to what you get with electrics. And there are never EVER any batteries to replace. And, this is basically a standard Civic that has been retrofitted. If the car was purpose-built, it could easily have a larger or second tank without any compromises. And a 400-500 mile range. The CNG Civic is a kludge and it still pummels most hybrids and electrics.
Lastly, you can get a filling device in your own garage which essentially gives you $1 a "gallon"(equivalent) prices. It's more expensive than electric, but loads less than diesel or gas.
A few years ago I was going to convert my 3/4 ton Chevy PU to LNG or CNG. The conversion was about $5k. The company I talked to had converted a bunch of vehicles for the Navy here in San Diego. At the time there were only 2 stations in all San Diego where you could get CNG. Currently with gas prices where they are CNG is a wash price wise. Using a home fueling device is fine provided you have natural gas. Much of San Diego county does not have natural gas. It is pretty much in the densely populated suburbs and the city. I just read an article that said you could not drive the Civic GX from LA to LV as there were no places midway to fill your tank. Of course you have no real trunk with that big tank. At this point I would prefer a propane conversion with the ability to switch back and forth. Much cheaper to install. Though propane is still outrageous here. My provider as of Friday is charging $3 per gallon. That makes it mighty expensive driving. The other issue is I don't like the Civic as a vehicle to start with. I don't think anyone else is selling CNG anymore. Used to be a bunch. A friend has 3 old CNG Ford cop cars. he uses two for parts to keep one going.
Just looked at your map. The closest station for me is about 32 miles from the house. If you were going to Phoenix from San Diego you would not likely make it. Last station is in El Centro currently selling at $2.95. It is 248 miles to the next station in Phoenix. If you are driving from LA to Phoenix the last leg is 268 miles. Not a chance I would risk that. As I have said they make good commuter vehicles. Don't hold your breath for them to become mainstream. I want a diesel with a minimum 600 mile highway range. Not a shorter range. That is the main gripe I have with this Sequoia is 350 miles and you are looking for a gas station. If I was buying a small vehicle today it would be the VW Sportwagen TDI. Nothing else in America would have a chance at my wallet.
PS Take Interstate 10 across from AZ and you will find stretches as far as 360 miles between stations with prices as high today as $3.67 per gallon equivalent.
Wow ! Folks used to voice as a "real concern" the lack of diesel availability@ 1 in every 4 fuel stations in 2002/2003 when I first considered the diesel ! It was then, and remains totally and utterly seamless to get fuel. The passenger CAR diesel fleet has actually decreased app - minus 33% from less than 3% to 2%. 92% of that 2% are mid sized light trucks. Math indicates app 406,560 passenger CAR diesel vehicles, (.0016% ) USA.
So with a yearly sales of less than 2,000 CNG Civic's, how long would one suppose it would take to become 1,2,3,4,5% of the 254.1 M passenger vehicle fleet? Keep in mind that with the 1,000 on up installation of home fueling obviously gives a Civic (or any other for that matter) an almost no brainer advantage. While I tip my hat to Honda for doing alternative fuels such as diesel, CNG, if diesels are considered a niche market then CNG will probably stay less than that. So for example how many (cng) gas company vehicles actually run on CNG?
CARB and the EPA are both concerned that the passenger diesel car population will have a "mauthusian growth rate" (graphic: multilpy like rabbits and NYC mice and rats)
Downstream, I have read that CNG is very dilutive of engine oil. So for example I run 20,000 mile OCI's gasser) with 10,000 mile OEM recommended. I have read in passing CNG folks do not go much over 5,000 miles OCI.
My main point wasn't that it is viable compared to Diesel so much as CNG would solve most of our nation's fuel problems if the government invested in it rather than some GM and Ford run pipe dream hybrids.
CNG is worlds cheaper to implement on a large scale compared to the other options. And it doesn't effect corn prices, either.
I agree with you on CNG. I am a big T. Boone fan also. When they get the pipeline built across Canada from Alaska we will have a very good source of Natural Gas to feed the Midwest. I think it is best used in buses, PU trucks and delivery trucks. It just takes up too much room in a small car. The tanks have a limited life span and are very expensive to replace. To me they are kind of like hybrids. If you put a lot of miles on a vehicle in a short time then they may be good options. There are fewer dealers for CNG in San Diego today than in 1993 when I was going to convert my PU truck. Our Gas Utility trucks where I worked in Alaska used LNG. They claimed it was safer than CNG. I know that Sempra just opened a large LNG facility across the border in Mexico. You should be able to get more range from smaller tanks with LNG. There is also the emerging GTL. Making super clean diesel from Natural Gas. Qatar has the worlds largest known reserve of Natural Gas with several GTL plants in different stages of development. Some exciting new developments going on.
Comments
A big issue is fuel quality, or lack of fuel quality. Domestically, the cetane is too low and there are too many aromatic compounds in domestic fuel that contribute to particulate formation. A higher cetane would help reduce particulate as fuel would ignite more readily and burn more cleanly. Removing aromatic compounds would reduce the energy content of the fuel a little, but would help reduce PM formation and some of the other nasties that are formed when aromatic compounds are burned.
DPF requires little or no maintenance as I understand it. A drive at highway speed for several minutes usually does the job of clearing them.
both cars are complex with complex hardware and software systems.
All future cars worth a darn will also be. Saw something a few months ago about a 1400 page owner's manual for a new car - can't find it now though.
The days of lamenting, "Oh Poor Me, My New Car Is SO Complex!!" are, and should be, over.
Cars of the future will be complex. That is not now a negative and never will be. The car companies will have trained technicians at all times, and most of the independent shops will too.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/12/exxonmobil-to-i.html#more
I was wondering when the oil companies/refineries would get around to increasing the diesel supply.
Honda will likely revisit their cancellation of the diesel engine within a year or two. They are hunkering down now given the current market so I do not expect them to do an immediate about face. We may yet see a few more diesel cars in the future, besides VW. :shades:
The EIA in their AEO 2009 is predicting 38% of the cars will be hybrids and diesel sales will be 2 million by 2030. Time will tell.....
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/12/new-us-eia-ener.html#more
6.383 M to 5.13 M diesel cars. LOADS of extra D2 fuel.
ALL is a big word to describe future cars. My main interest in an EV would be the simplicity of a car with a battery, motor and charger. Direct drive NO transmission or $11,000 PSD device. Maybe an electric heat exchanger that cools in the summer and heats in the winter. I could live in So CA without either. The biggest plus would be getting rid of dozens of worthless sensors. Many that are part of the EPA emissions requirement on all fossil fuel engines. They are the problem with all new cars IMO. Many people get tired of taking their cars in for the dealer to reset some POC computer that turns on a light on the dash saying your tires are flat when it was just the Toyota dealer being too lazy to fill the spare with the same pressure as the other four tires.
So I have a slight optimism that we will get back to keeping it simple sometime in the future. It will keep cars on the road longer and be environmentally better all around.
In the mean time I want a DIESEL SUV that will get me close to 30 MPG on the highway. With a sense of having enough steel around me as protection from a crazed eco weinie in a hybrid that has lost control and crashes into me.
That SUV already exists and I have one. It is the Jeep Liberty CRD that Daimler-Chrysler sold in 2005 and 2006. When driven judiciously, 30+ MPG on the road is not uncommon. I also understand that the Jeep Grand Cherokee with the V-6 Daimler diesel will get close to 30 MPG.
I suspect that the extra diesel fuel might even be sold to truckers, not just TDI owners. :surprise:
http://www.vw.com/vwhype/carbonneutral/en/us/
I now wonder what the mpg figures would be if I got/stayed on the Chevron load (2.39 per rather than the off brand 2.33 per, Chevron claims 50 cetane vs 40-43 for the so called "house brand")
Tick Tock
RUG - $1.759
PUG - $1.999
Diesel - $2.899
RUG 1.559
Diesel 2.439
All prices are cash.
what is 33,541 (US market diesel passenger cars) / 250,400,000 (US registered vehicles in 2004) ? :confuse:
link title
.0001339 % !?
..
... Do I have a solution ? Well, several companies are starting to offer retro-fit exchange DPF's. These don't require the individual vehicle to have the proper burn/clean mode. Just unfasten a few stainless steel band clamps (after the red light comes on on the dash), drop the DPF at a dealer and pick up your clean filter. These have been cleaned under a much better controlled procedure in a designed facility.
..
... Beyond that I still have to wonder if we had Aveos, Neon, Foci, Jetta, Camry, Accord size vehicles getting seventy MPG with no DPF and no EGR that had say 90 percent less particulate and seventy percent less NOx than 1990 vehicles with much less carbon output than anything today, brought about about by very sophisticated fuel injection, would we not be better off ???
..
... I want clean air but the CARB regs today are not for internal combustion engines. My opinion is that it is only possible with a major battery breakthrough and solar/wind recharging.
here is the eia.gov comic book version (aka, keep the dummies in RUG to PUG)
link title
Some would say that jacking up the U.S. (& Canadian) demand for diesel is a bad thing because there's already plenty of demand for diesel (plus fuel oil & jet A) in the trucking, railroad, marine and airline industries -- gasoline is a waste product from producing the fuel that runs commerce. You can only tweak the percentages of gasoline vs. diesel/kerosine/jet A so much in the refining process. It could be that "Big Oil" isn't interested in increasing demand for practical clean diesel cars in North America.
Oh what a tangled web we weave. . .
In any event, I'd be driving an A3 or BMW with a 1.9 or 2.0 litre diesel today if I could.
Certainly looks like it to me.
I talked to my nephew yesterday at our annual family get together. Last Summer he was in bad shape as his biggest customer filed for bankruptcy under the load of $5 diesel. Now his business is booming again. He has several full time heavy diesel mechanics working in his shop. Most trucking companies are spending money to keep the old trucks running as long as possible. They are not optimistic about the upcoming regulations. The only chance they have at survival is the fact that most drivers are still Union. They are busy lobbying CA State legislators to pressure CARB on upcoming regulations. According to my nephew the regs are totally unrealistic and will send most of the trucking companies into bankruptcy.
He is quite knowledgeable on diesel emissions and says the claims by CARB are based on flawed data. He claims there is no legitimate case of death from diesel emissions. The data is gathered so haphazardly that it is impossible to pin point where the problem lies. He claims we still get a lot of very dirty diesel in spite of the ULSD mandate. So they can put all the expensive emissions devices on a truck and still not get rid of the soot that you see coming from truck exhaust.
Add to that all the trucks coming up from Mexico have very little regulation and they can burn the dirtiest of diesel fuel.
For those that have experienced the smog in San Bernardino. Ever wonder where it comes from. Two big sources. There is a natural valley that carries the pollution from San Pedro/Long Beach harbor right up to the mountains. San Bernardino is a railroad hub with all those locomotives burning the nastiest diesel you can imagine.
Instead of shutting down the shipping and rail industry CARB outlaws selling a diesel Beetle in the state. One equipped with the latest in catalytic converters. A vehicle that uses about half the fossil fuel of a gas Beetle. It also produces about half the CO2.
Is there some reason I should not be anti government regulation?
My other take is the one reason the diesel beetle is from banned to limited is because it precisely does what the CARB & EPA says it should do. They really do not want the better results, they just want a Hollywood type illusionary passion play: opiate the masses principle.
So in a pervese way the realities metric out to: 29 mpg is better than 50 mpg. Higher C02 emissions is BETTER than lower C02 emissions. From ZERO to 15 ppm sulfur D2 fuel is worse than RUG to PUG @ 30 ppm. We want it sleezy, at much higher cost, taxation, consumption and emissions !!! Don't forget the more global realities, higher year over year consumption,MORE dependence on foreign oil, especially those hostile to the USA
..
... Next major embarrassment for CARB (after a few hundred million down the drain) the UREA systems will be obsolete before the last truckstop has them installed. That is if Homeland Security does not wake-up first and STOP all those potential point of purchase locations for ammonia. BTW, there is no law that says these truckstops have to sell UREA. Pilot and TA say they will, Flying J went Chapter 11 yesterday.
Sad.
When I drove, Bingo, Husky & Union 76 were my stops of choice, depending on fuel pricing, convenience &/or food/lodging. They're all gone now, but Flying J filled in for a few of my favorites.
As to diesel fuel, especially the domestic stuff, it is rotten swill. It is dirty and the cetane rating is barely 42 or 43. I am changing the fuel filter on my Jeep Liberty CRD every 10K to 12K miles instead of the called for 24K miles. The filter comes out black, coal black after 10 to 12K miles. I must add additives and cetane improver to make sure my CRD will start in the colder weather and run properly.
As to any form of D2, EPA decided to convert all forms of D2 usage over in steps instead of all at once. That means the trains can still use high sulfur garbage. Look at home #2 heating oil at 5000 ppm of sulfur. ULSD for home heating oil will not be available for another few years. Tell me this is not nuts. I use oil to heat my home and the sulfur laden ash in the heat ex changer really makes a mess. And the Mexican fuel and some of the U.S. drivers who use it, all delightful.
As to the issue of PM (particulate matter) found in diesel exhaust, there are some nasty compounds found in PM called PAH, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons. PAH are carcinogenic and caused by the incomplete combustion of aromatic compounds found on fossil fuel. Removal of aromatic compounds in diesel fuel will reduce the amount of PAH and also reduce the amount of PM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycyclic_aromatic_hydrocarbon#Occurrence_and_poll- ution
It is no secret that the oil companies have preferred to sell gasoline to the masses for over 100 years. Diesel is the premier product produced from oil. It provides all our major transportation and freight hauling needs. Gas is still the nasty by product. It should be obvious that we are running a surplus of gas with the big price difference. That is unfortunate for the few discriminating drivers such as yourself that are using diesel. I am surprised you do not have a high grade of ULSD available. What state are you in? I was very happy with BP/ARCO ULSD in my two diesel vehicles. I do anticipate owning another diesel in the next year.
kcram - Pickups Host
CNG.
My cousin's family has such a vehicle. It is cleaner than diesel, cheaper per mile, requires no fuel filters or additives or other idiocy, thumbs its nose at CARB, and we can make it or similar compounds artificially if the massive amounts that we have in the U.S. are ever exhausted. No corn gets taken from our markets, no toxic metals are required for energy storage, and no exotic components, either.
Oh - and the car, a CNG Civic, runs, stops, and starts exactly like a normal one. If we converted our gasoline vehicles over to CNG, we would pretty much solve the entire problem in one step. If you really want to get silly, you can always make a CNG hybrid, but the stuff burns so clean as it is, that it really seems pointless.
There. I just saved Obama a few billion dollars.
I personally think the long term answer will be diesel burning fuel made from algae. One process already demonstrated that can produce 35k+ gallons per year on an acre of desert. Corn ethanol is about 18 gallons per acre. Palm diesel is about 600 gallons per acre.
Your ALGAE example is an absolute slam dunk no brainer !!! This is probably why it has literally been ignored and actually vilified. Algae is literally one of the most abundant photosynthesis mechanism on the planet. There is almost no place that it will not grow !! One component of its life cycle (PLEASE PEOPLE GO BACK TO HIGH SCHOOL BIOLOGY or a gate program middle school biology class) IS C02 !!!!!! In addition to producing FOOD, ALGAE produces OXYGEN !!! It can also be adapted to work in sewer processing plants. So who ever sees an end to that process and service?
Also effective immediately, if the eco [non-permissible content removed] believes their own rhetoric, it should be R & D'd and adapted to ongoing "waste" producing processes '. So again, who ever sees an end to certain processes and services, i.e., food production.
Enforcement is literally idiotic: in terms of the everyday practicality.
President Obama would put the kibosh on it toot sweet ! Keep in mind how many UNION folks it would idle if the fed were to limit ship entry/exit using bunker fuel (upwards of 5,000 ppm sulfur) ! The classic democratic manufacturing states have systematically(over generations) gotten rid of domestic manufacturing capability knowing that foreign produced goods would use these vehicles and logistics systems.
Are you talking about my mental health or where I live?
I live in the Peoples Republic of Maryland.
BP began marketing the cleaner burning fuel in December of 1999 and has been selling it through local and regional resellers and distributors. BP currently supplies about 20 % of the state's 220,000 barrel per day diesel demand, according to California Energy Commission statistics.
This CARB file shows BP ECD-1 testing at Cetane 51.3
http://www.arb.ca.gov/diesel/idrac/presentations/Jun01/ECD.pdf
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Obviously the existing infrastructure has to be expanded. But every single municipality that uses CNG vehicles is required by law to sell the CNG to the public. So there almost always *is* a filling station in every major city. Los Angeles has several dozen. the Civic in question comes with a GPS pre-programmed with every station in the U.S. as well.
http://www.cngprices.com/
That's a lot of stations, actually. It's small but is viable and isn't any more difficult to implement than propane, which is bought and sold darn near everywhere.
Also, on range, CNG is a quick 5-6 minute fill at a station and you're good for 200-250 miles! At whatever speed a normal Civic will go. That's not even close to what you get with electrics. And there are never EVER any batteries to replace. And, this is basically a standard Civic that has been retrofitted. If the car was purpose-built, it could easily have a larger or second tank without any compromises. And a 400-500 mile range. The CNG Civic is a kludge and it still pummels most hybrids and electrics.
Lastly, you can get a filling device in your own garage which essentially gives you $1 a "gallon"(equivalent) prices. It's more expensive than electric, but loads less than diesel or gas.
PS
Take Interstate 10 across from AZ and you will find stretches as far as 360 miles between stations with prices as high today as $3.67 per gallon equivalent.
So with a yearly sales of less than 2,000 CNG Civic's, how long would one suppose it would take to become 1,2,3,4,5% of the 254.1 M passenger vehicle fleet? Keep in mind that with the 1,000 on up installation of home fueling obviously gives a Civic (or any other for that matter) an almost no brainer advantage. While I tip my hat to Honda for doing alternative fuels such as diesel, CNG, if diesels are considered a niche market then CNG will probably stay less than that. So for example how many (cng) gas company vehicles actually run on CNG?
CARB and the EPA are both concerned that the passenger diesel car population will have a "mauthusian growth rate" (graphic: multilpy like rabbits and NYC mice and rats)
Downstream, I have read that CNG is very dilutive of engine oil. So for example I run 20,000 mile OCI's gasser) with 10,000 mile OEM recommended. I have read in passing CNG folks do not go much over 5,000 miles OCI.
CNG is worlds cheaper to implement on a large scale compared to the other options. And it doesn't effect corn prices, either.
http://www.qp.com.qa/qp.nsf/web/bc_new_projects_gtl